RIAA suing citizen for copying legally purchased CDs to PC

Sure, we've heard RIAA-admiring lawyers affirm that ripping your own CDs is in fact "stealing," but it seems the aforementioned entity is putting its money where its mouth is in a case against Jeffrey Howell. Reportedly, the Scottsdale, Arizona resident is being sued by the RIAA, and rather than Mr. Howell just writing a check and calling it a day, he's fighting back in court. Interestingly, it seems that the industry is maintaining that "it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into their computer." Ira Schwartz, the industry's lawyer in the case, is arguing that MP3 files created on his computer from legally purchased CDs are indeed "unauthorized copies," and while we've no idea what will become of all this, we suppose you should go on and wipe those personal copies before you too end up in handcuffs.

Update: We got some more info on the case -- it looks like Jeffrey's actually being sued for illegal downloading, not ripping, but this whole "ripping is illegal" tactic is still pretty distasteful. Check out this post for the full story.

[Via BlogRunner]

[MikeG @ Dec 29th 2007 8:08PM]

You have a good point (Good name btw).
Over here in England authorities are not allowed to scan your hard drive without a warrant, or similar certificate. Although, they are allowed to scan your active processes.

[bondsbw @ Dec 29th 2007 9:18PM]

@MikeG

Scan your active processes? Sounds like something a quick yank of the power cord wouldn't have trouble solving.

[GradysGhost @ Dec 29th 2007 11:13PM]

Mike - MadAnthony (just a few posts prior to this one) posted a link you should check out. It's an actual court document signed by the presiding judge that explains (in lawyer-speak) that Mr. Howell is not under suit for the possession of these files or for duplication by way of the old software rip trick. He's being sued for distribution via Kazaa. He had Kazaa on his PC. The RIAA has the right to scan your Kazaa shared folder in the same way that I have the right to do it. If I'm on Kazaa and you're on Kazaa and I want to download from you, I see your uploadable files. You are making them public. It's not in any way an invasion of privacy. This article is hella-misleading.

[Logboy @ Dec 30th 2007 4:21AM]

That was my first thought, if you read the article it doesn't tell you but if you google Atlantic v. Howell, it will tell you everything....he was sharing like 4000 files using kazaa....kinda dumb if you ask me.

read my other comments about this...

[Hax Or @ Dec 29th 2007 7:24PM]

This AOL website is getting on my nerves.

I'll get my gadget news somewhere else without some idiot *STILL* telling me that I can't rip MP3s from CDs I buy.

Get a clue Engadget. Ya Noob. BTW AOL sucks.

[computer.dude.28 @ Dec 29th 2007 7:27PM]

Uhh.. Engadget didn't tell you not to rip CDs. The RIAA did, but I still think it's a good idea you get your news somewhere else. Go be someone else's problem :)

[TJ @ Dec 30th 2007 1:45PM]

Umm, you get a clue you dolt...

Engadget doesn't agree with the RIAA. That last statement in the article is what people call "sarcasm".

[Junior @ Dec 29th 2007 7:25PM]

I know some people dont even wanna have to do anything with the RIAA so they just buy music from Indie labels.

[Ian @ Dec 29th 2007 7:25PM]

ok this has to do with the same thing but just movies... i just bought Live Free or Die Hard from best buy yesterday and this is what the cover says. "First Time ever Bonus Digital COPY of film included on disc. Simple, fast and portable for your laptop or PC" anyway isnt that basically saying that its OK to put a copy of what ever you bought on your own computer? thats what makes sense to me. this is disgusting. so what the RIAA is saying that all MP3 players are illegal, and that you arent permitted to back up your own music for safety. hmm who wants to bet that the RIAA loses this one.

[Junior @ Dec 29th 2007 7:27PM]

i 2nd that they will lose. Jeffrey Howell FTW!

[Grant @ Dec 29th 2007 7:26PM]

Jesus, what is this? 1995?
are they really doing this now?
while itunes is doing great for music downloads, ipods are really apples bread and butter, and if the RIAA is doing things to do anything that would hurt it's ipod sales, they are going to give them a big fuck you.

as for the people that question who still buy CDs, I do for one. You can usually get them for cheaper at BB on sale, and have an art/lyrics book and a hard copy just in case anything goes wrong. plues itunes music store native KBPS is something like 128-160, i prefer my music at 192.

[Turtle @ Dec 29th 2007 7:26PM]

Here's the technical problem: on the enormous majority of MP3 players, it is physically impossible to buy music online ('legally') and get it on the MP3 player WITHOUT having an intermediary copy somewhere, whether it's iTunes or whatever you use to manage the music going onto the MP3 player.

From Napster's home page: "With Napster To Go®, transfer unlimited music to your MP3 player or music phone."

From Rhapsody's Terms of Service: "Some of the Services may include the ability to download copies of certain songs to your hard drive, burn copies of songs directly to recordable compact discs, or transfer certain songs to supported portable devices."

How are either of these any different than buying a flat round plastic thing and then copying it to your portable player, even if your "portable player" is a desktop PC?

How much more full of crap can these people get before some judge cites them for contempt and throws them in jail?

[Junior @ Dec 29th 2007 7:29PM]

Maybe you should download the songs from napster or something and save it directly to your MP3 players drive.

[Josh Warner @ Dec 29th 2007 8:53PM]

@ Junior -

That doesn't work. There is still an intermediary copy in your computer's temp files (while it downloaded, possibly deleted but completely recoverable), nevermind the fact that the song completely existed in your computer's RAM during the download and transfer to the MP3 player, the copy the player itself caches to its RAM (used to be universal; HD players definitely do this, but flash ones may not anymore).

You know what is even scarier? In a recent court case, the MPAA (I believe; it was definitely an xxAA cartel) sued a torrent tracker which claimed they could not provide information about their users' IP addresses because they never recorded the information - it existed only in RAM. The judge (which should be hauled off the bench for incompetence) ruled that the tracker "destroyed evidence" simply by turning off the server! I really, really wish I was making this up. My point is, these intermediate copies may (legally, not practically) become illegal on the basis of a couple of very recent precedents.

Where am I going with this, really? We need a system where the judge / jury is competent w.r.t. the case at hand, or they can't render judgment. Without this, within most of our lifetimes there will be one of two outcomes: 1) we are all criminals [police state, anybody?] or 2) computers and all modern technology is outlawed for non-governmental use.

[acatalano @ Dec 29th 2007 7:30PM]

Its time our POS politicians took care of this issue and these A-holes

[Josh Warner @ Dec 29th 2007 9:00PM]

Have you met / written / called / faxed / emailed yours? I have mine, but feel like I'm being "agreed with" just long enough as it takes to hopefully keep my vote, then back to pandering to PACs for graft money.

We need term limits (one preferably, two max). We need to vote each and every last slimebag in the capitol out of there and keep churning them until We, the People, recover control of our country. And, newsflash, they are ALL slimebags. Your representative probably points his/her finger at all the bad stuff "those other guys do," when of course they are out to stop "the bad guys." It's a complete lie, but it keeps the incumbents in office.

Don't take it anymore - regardless of your political affiliation, vote for the other guy/gal (especially if he's a new guy/gal). Maybe we can recover our country yet...

[dizilbdog @ Dec 29th 2007 7:31PM]

So if that is True then Itunes is illegal and Apple can sued, because Uhm I've used itunes to load up music from my CD's.... Mr Jobs you are Under Arrest

[Corey @ Dec 29th 2007 8:31PM]

You're absolutely right!
I just ripped some music to my i tunes library and then synced it to my video iPod.
Come on RIAA, take on Apple instead of a guy transferring something to his own computer!

[kevin @ Dec 29th 2007 7:31PM]

Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) on the RIAA in a recent interview:
"But I'm not on their side. And they're not on my side. And that's what I wish the public knew more about where the RIAA really stands. And they're just a lobbyist group for the record labels. They do not have the artists' best interests in mind. And as proof of that in the last few years, a couple examples that are ridiculous in terms of things that there's no way they can misconstrue that as being for the artists' rights, you know. And I think what they're doing now as far as going after the housewife, you know, is ludicrous. This is your fans and your audience that you're attacking..."

It'd be one thing if the RIAA was actually looking out for the artists, but this isn't even about that...this is the RIAA trying to make money for the RIAA - the bands have nothing to do with it!

[Eric @ Dec 29th 2007 7:33PM]

Wait, so how are we supposed to get songs onto MP3 players? Also, how the hell am I supposed to obtain high quality or lossless recordings now? I'm sure as hell not paying for that 128kbps crap that most of the online music distributors have. Until I can buy music in either lossless or at the very least, MP3's encoded with LAME APE, I can't see how the RIAA can reasonably expect people not to rip their CD's.

[BigD145 @ Dec 29th 2007 7:34PM]

I haven't bought music since the 90's. I will continue this trend. Not much under the shadow of the RIAA has been good in the first place.

[Junior @ Dec 29th 2007 7:36PM]

at least the MPAA doesnt go around sueing random people. Plus, do they just pick out a random person from a shoe boxand sue the name they pick out.

[Craig @ Dec 29th 2007 7:37PM]

My wife and I have ripped our entire collection of ~1,400 CDs and ~400 tapes to our home media network, which is how we listen to music. Our actual CDs rarely see the light of day any more; they're there primarily now as physical masters (an archive, if you will).

What I'd like to see the RIAA do is take us to court and try to claim that WE are thieves who are destroying musicians' ability to make a living. That'd be rich.

[Rob @ Dec 29th 2007 7:37PM]

Ok, I hear everyone here saying "F the RIAA this and that." Well guess what??? Shut the hell up. I agree with you. However, you guys are feeding the same beast that's coming after you to bite you in the ass. Want the RIAA to fall apart, then don't buy their shitty records. Go buy music from independent artists. Go support your local artists and bands. But, oh no, you have to get your albums of Classic Rock and other stuff. Well, deal with it.

However, this is not about anything other than money. Our corrupted D.C. politicians are giving all our rights away to the corporate pigs. In the meanwhile, all we do is bitch and nothing else. Don't like what your representative and elected clowns are doing? Then vote the bastards out of office. Oh, yeah, I forgot... You didn't feel like voting because it wasn't important to you. The magic word is VOTE folks. Stop the bitching and actually do something about it. Let's see what would happen if people were to stop buying music from one week. The RIAA will crap in their pants. Just like the oil companies, the MPAA, and any other large association or group of corporations, they'd feel the pain if you weren't to buy their stuff even for one day, yet alone a week.

[Logboy @ Dec 30th 2007 4:32AM]

Hey can you share that to me? :)

[jeffhowell @ Jan 3rd 2008 5:25AM]

I am Jeffrey Howell. Just a few weeks ago no one new who I was, but now my name is wide spread on the internet. I just want to clear up a few points that might be misunderstood. Yes, I am being sued for downloading or uploading the R.I.A.A. says it is the same. The facts are. Yes, I have MP3s on my computer. However these files were not placed in a “shared folder." The MP3s are in fact stored in the C:\My Music folder created by Windows, and have always been. The peer to peer program that was installed on my computer shared my entire hard drive. Of the thousands of files the R.I.A.A. found only a few are their concern. All this will not change the fact that the R.I.A.A. states that recording legally purchased music is illegal, and you could find your self in court.




“What the Law Says and What it Means
If you make unauthorized copies of copyrighted music recordings, you’re stealing. You’re breaking the law, and you could be held legally liable for thousands of dollars in damages.
That’s pretty important information to have, considering how serious it would be if you were caught and prosecuted by the authorities or sued in civil court. It’s even more important that you understand that when you illicitly make or distribute recordings, you are taking something of value from the owner without his or her permission.
You may find this surprising. After all, when”

“Copying CDs
· It’s okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.
· It’s also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R’s, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) – but, again, not for commercial purposes.
· Beyond that, there’s no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:
à The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
à The copy is just for your personal use. It’s not a personal use – in fact, it’s illegal – to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.”

Coppied from the R.I.A.A. website.

[Junior @ Dec 29th 2007 7:40PM]

How about local bands where i live like Aerosmith or boston or the Dropkick Murphys

[Brooks @ Dec 30th 2007 12:42AM]

You're barking up the wrong tree. Try and lobby my favorite bands to sign with labels that the RIAA doesn't support. It's not my fault the music I love is paid for by a label who joins that bandwagon.

Don't get me wrong, I wish I could stick it to them that way, but I can't justify stealing music just to stick it to the RIAA. That leaves the band trying to pay the big "loan" from the label high and dry.

It's a common thought that artists make "pennies or dimes on an album", but what a lot of people don't realize is some portion of the cost of an album goes to the label as profit (not a fan) and the other portion goes to paying back their front on the cost of creating and putting that album out.

[Rob @ Dec 30th 2007 11:10AM]

So, in either case the artist is getting screwed. That's why I don't subscribe to the RIAA claim that when people illegally download stuff "they're stealing from the artist." That's bull, and they know it. They say that because they know people have no sympathy for the labels. Everyone should know that the one stealing from the artist the most is the record label itself. They screw the artist with having to pay for album production and marketing costs. Then, the artist has to pay for the music video out of their royalties as well. So, the artists pays the most and gets the least from the labels. Also, we've all read the stories of hundred of artists who were short-changed by "crafty" accountants at the labels who didn't pay the artists their proper share, or at all. I don't trust them. They're the most crooked business there is, and no one is willing to look into it and see all the abuse going on.

I'm not advocating for people to go steal music. But, I think they should be more picky about where they purchase their music from. If we were to support our local artists, then the RIAA would not be the mafia it is today. Artists, as well as their audience, need to be better educated about the business aspects of their craft.

I think that the RIAA move to sue people for making mp3 files of their own CD's will backlash. But, my question is, how come we accept the MPAA not allowing us to make copies of our DVD movies, but we scream bloody murder when the RIAA does the same with CD's? It's the same principle. I'm not saying their right. But, why the double standard.

[Tony @ Dec 29th 2007 7:43PM]

There is more to this story, I dont think we are getting the whole thing? Think about it,how did they find out he had cd of music he bought on his computer?

[Tony @ Dec 29th 2007 7:52PM]

I meant there has to be more.

[Seth @ Dec 29th 2007 7:47PM]

The next RIAA rule:

1. Listening to music that you did not purchase is against the Law.

Stupid RIAA, Steve Jobs needs to bring his boxing gloves to there offices.

[Nate the great @ Dec 29th 2007 7:49PM]

That's not why they are suing him. Yes, the legal brief says that, but they are suing him because they downloaded songs from him.

[Junior @ Dec 29th 2007 8:03PM]

What is this gonna mean for recording FM radio or from satellite radio or just listening to the radio.

[dudeInAmerica @ Dec 29th 2007 8:04PM]

I hear a lot of complaints, but what can be done about it? Stop buying music? You would have to stop people from going to best buy, walmart and itunes.

Its not gonna happen.

The law needs to be challenged and defeated.

[Toekiller @ Dec 29th 2007 8:06PM]

How did they find him? Simple. They picked up a telephone book, put a blindfold on their 'top' guy, gave him a pin and told him to stick it in.

They may as well sue the world. Not forgetting MS and apple who add the option of ripping to their media players.

[MikeG @ Dec 29th 2007 8:08PM]

Downloading illegal music; you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.

Might as well go download some more illegal music then.

[Bernhard @ Dec 29th 2007 8:14PM]

Why don't we all start bootlegging songs from the radio for personal use...

[Mike @ Dec 29th 2007 8:14PM]

One of these days, someone is going to attempt to solve the RIAA problem in a more violent and deadly manner than pleading "not guilty."

I wonder how many RIAA/MPAA legal jerk-offs hitting the floor it would take before they decide to back off.

I used to be a big pirate because I just couldn't afford all the music and movies I wanted. Now I can and I still don't buy it legally because of the RIAA/MPAA. I would stop right now and purchase all my music and movies legally if they would just stop being douchebags and join the 21st century and stop nickel and diming us consumers.

P.S.: I would be that guy to use my 2nd Amendment rights if I ever got sued. Or since I live in PA and PA is a non-wage garnishing state I would tell them to eat shit and die because I don't own a credit card, I don't own a house and I don't own a car. I have zero hard assets. Everything is in joint names or in mutual funds and IRA's which they can't touch.

[Russell @ Dec 29th 2007 9:58PM]

What is the velocity you would need to imbed an iPod mini loaded with music into said RIAA exec's cranium?

The iPod sniper, now that would be hilarious.

[Paul @ Dec 29th 2007 8:20PM]

I'm trying to think of other things this would apply to other than movies.

Books? If you puchased a book would it be illegal to scan it into a computer format so you could read it on your palm pilot?

Artwork? Is it illegal to make scans of artwork or photographs you have purchased?

[DG @ Dec 29th 2007 8:20PM]

Making fun of Jews is awesome.

[digitallysick @ Dec 29th 2007 8:30PM]

The songs had to of been shared online, otherwise how would they know he ripped the disc? Regardless fuck the RIAA

[Justus Alerio @ Dec 29th 2007 8:31PM]

Everyone, relax for a second. I just pulled this from the RIAA website:

http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?content_selector=piracy_online_the_law

Copying CDs

It’s okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.

It’s also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R’s, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) – but, again, not for commercial purposes.

Beyond that, there’s no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:

The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own

The copy is just for your personal use. It’s not a personal use – in fact, it’s illegal – to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.

The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying.
Remember, it’s never okay to sell or make commercial use of a copy that you make.

[Ed @ Dec 30th 2007 12:50AM]

"* It’s also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R’s, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) – but, again, not for commercial purposes."

That's the biggest bullshit I have ever heard. Special Audio CD-R's? Where are the royalties going to specifically? Do they have the Psychic Friends Network on retainer?

"Okay mon, I am sensing a specially funky audio cd-r.... you need to give some pennies to Metallica"

This whole topic is misleading. If a topic could be considered trolling, this is it. A billion furious posts that fail to take into account that the dude was using Kazaa.

Ever since that douchebag executive said on the stand that ripped CDs were *stealing* we have been giving it far more attention then it deserves. Was she a complete retard saying it? Absolutely.

Just add it to the dumbass things that Sony has done like.... oh... let me think.... the ROOTKIT.

The RIAA could NEVER win a case based on unauthorized use alone. It is such a vague and ambiguous statement. This is where "fair use" comes into the picture. If you are not making a profit from it, but are only maintaining your purchased right to IP by keeping several personal copies, then you are SAFE and LEGAL.

The bottom line is that when you "rip your cd", by default, you must have purchased the right to the IP. People do not expect, and/or obviously do not respect, dumbass corporations that wish to control the use of their IP once they have licensed that right to a consumer.

Judges usually follow the money trail. If defendant A compensated plaintiff B for said property, and defendant A, no way, caused damages to plaintiff B by use of the property.. then there is no merit to the case. Check Mate.

So everyone can take a deep breath, and continue ripping their CDs in peace.

[eugene @ Dec 29th 2007 8:36PM]

Was this guy sharing his library? How the hell did the RIAA even find out he copied his collection?

Boy, I'm glad I purchase 6 copies of every CD I own.
1 in itunes
2 for my cars
2 for my PCs
1 for my home theater system

Sometimes I sing my favorite songs to myself in the shower though, hopefully I don't get sued for that.

[Russell @ Dec 29th 2007 9:55PM]

You better buy another CD and keep it in the shower, you evil IP stealer!

[Nathaniel @ Dec 29th 2007 8:38PM]

The RIAA website, specifically on page:

http://www.riaa.com/physicalpiracy.php?content_selector=piracy_online_the_law

says this about copying CDs:

Copying CDs

* It’s okay to copy music onto an analog cassette, but not for commercial purposes.
* It’s also okay to copy music onto special Audio CD-R’s, mini-discs, and digital tapes (because royalties have been paid on them) – but, again, not for commercial purposes.
* Beyond that, there’s no legal "right" to copy the copyrighted music on a CD onto a CD-R. However, burning a copy of CD onto a CD-R, or transferring a copy onto your computer hard drive or your portable music player, won’t usually raise concerns so long as:
o The copy is made from an authorized original CD that you legitimately own
o The copy is just for your personal use. It’s not a personal use – in fact, it’s illegal – to give away the copy or lend it to others for copying.
* The owners of copyrighted music have the right to use protection technology to allow or prevent copying.
* Remember, it’s never okay to sell or make commercial use of a copy that you make.

If they are suing the guy then they are contradicting themselves.

[Greenline @ Dec 29th 2007 8:45PM]

This is bullshit

[iiviip3 @ Dec 29th 2007 8:45PM]

So conversely, if we download an album on iTunes legally we can't burn that to a CD right? That would seem in line with their "logic" here. I hope more bands do what Radiohead and Trent Reznor have done. No actually I just hope that more indie labels rise from what these bands are doing. One day we're hearing about handshakes and digital downloads without DRM...and the next it is this trash. It's utterly ridiculous.