Apple's been hit with
antitrust lawsuits over the dominance of the iPod / iTunes system
before, but there's a new case brewing down California way that argues not that Apple has illegally tied the iPod to iTunes, but that Apple has abused its dominant market position by not supporting WMA. That's right, we've come full circle -- Apple is now being accused of locking Microsoft out of the market. The case, brought by San Diego attorney Stacie Somers, claims that since Apple disables the WMA functionality of the PortalPlayer chip inside many iPods, it's shipping "crippleware," and that it's doing so deliberately to abuse its position as the market leader. Of course, unprotected WMA files import into iTunes on Windows
just fine, so this is really a DRM compatibility issue -- and given Apple's
official position on DRM and the fact that Microsoft's own Zunes don't exactly
play nice with all the flavors of WMA DRM, this suit could be over sooner than expected.
Disclaimer: Although this post was written by an attorney, it is not meant as legal advice or analysis, and should not be taken as such.
posted January 4th 2008 4:14PM
If you don't like go somewhere else there is a thing called freedom of choice, if you don't like one product go to the other damn.
Stop winning and bitching about it; if it doesn't play the formats that you like why are you buying it in the first place if it has something you don't like.
If you buy it and know it doesn't support your format of choice you have no reason to complain its your own damn fault.
hmmmmmmm.....................anyone remember the zune.you know, hte MICROSOFT media player that only works on WINDOWS machines!!!!!!!!!!!!at leaast apple let there player work on both pcs and macs.
ps:dont gie me any crap about "but apple had too because pcs dominate the market" because the point of the matter is that they DO work with both.unlike the zune
pss.also by not eleasing an apple compatable zune microsoft is trying to tell mac users" sorry, but your nit important for us to support.that just sucks
A lot of men report turning into gay homosexuals after handling an ipod.
@ Valgas: "A lot of men report turning into gay homosexuals after handling an ipod."
Isn't that a bit like a double-negative? Therefore a gay homosexual is a straight man! heh ;)
Why should Apple be forced to pay to license someone else's proprietary codec, when their players already support many other codecs, including the most common one that we all use, MP3?
Why should Apple be forced to support WMA when Microsoft wants to screw their customers by hanging them out to dry and not supporting PlaysForSure with the Zune?
And those who compare the iPod/iTunes lock-in to Microsoft Office clearly do not live in the real world. It is virtually impossible to do business in the real world without Office. It is usually not an option to keep badgering clients to convert files before sending them to you, especially if it's someone you're trying to impress.
The iPod is NOWHERE near as dominant as Office, and it's an entertainment system, not a business system.
Your friends or coworkers having iPods in no way makes it difficult for you to buy and use a Zune.
End of story.
I am willing to be that this person ripped all of her CDs with Windows Media Player that was is set to WMA by default (not MP3), then bought an iPod, then discovered that she would have to re-rip all of the CDs again. And when she was told the iPod does not play WMAs, she is thinking it is Apple's fault.
AFAIK ability to play WMA requires license from Microsoft. If that's the case, each iPod would have Microsoft tax and Apple made quite logical and not-so-evil decision to ignore it.
I've got an iPod.
I use iTunes. Not because I'm forced to, but because it's the best piece of kit for the job, and that is the honest truth. Some people like other things, but I've been an iTunes fan for ages, although I used to use Windows Media Player.
As a small point, I reckon Microsoft should let wma's die. I mean, the Wii just changed its Photo Channel music playing functionality to be compatible with AAC instead of MP3 - surely a sign that people are changing?
Then again, perhaps I'm a bit snotty because if you're too stupid to change the default ripping format to mp3 for intercompatibility purposes and then MOAN abuot it, you need a kicking. I used WMP for years and always ripped to mp3.
So :P
There are plenty of other reasons to go after Apple. This is the least of the problems really. I mean they don't support many video formats. In fact Creative is the only company supporting the majority of formats on their portable players.
Apple has inferior hardware. All shipped products will suffer some malfunction before the warranty expires. Every new generation of iPod carries some major flaw. iPods have always had LCD problems. The hard drives have a hit or miss behavior and a very short lifespan. They don't support copy and paste and force use of iTunes. iTunes does not work on over 70% of non-OSX based systems. iTunes has issues and flaws even on OSX. Your iPod is locked to one system only... locking you out from your other computers or those who own a notebook and home system. Seek times are sub-standard and iPod is not fully supported as an external player on most systems such as Xbox 360 and other media players... unless you buy an Apple TV which only allows playback of Apple video formats. Warranties aren't honored quite often. They have a Sony warranty policy... it's probably your fault and we won't fix it. They offer a substandard product at a premium price and one by one people realize what is so wrong with Apple. If you think Microsoft was an "evil" corporation back in the 90s... then you don't know anything about what Apple has been up to.
Nathan... just to raise a few points to counter your hatred of Apple.
1. Apple has inferior hardware.
In what way? The last Apple laptop I bought (a G4 PBook 2 years ago) was cheaper than the closest equivalent PC laptop I could find, and in fact was higher specced than said competitors, so that's a spurious claim.
2. All shipped products will suffer some malfunction before the warranty expires.
In over 20 years of using Apple's products I've yet to buy something from them that has suffered some sort of malfunction covered by their manufacturers warranty at all. The only problems I've ever had have been hard drives failing after a number of years (common wear-and-tear anyway) and I once had a sound-output fried during a thunderstorm (my own fault and in no way a design/build issue - it was hooked up to a stereo that stupidly I'd not plugged into the same surge/spike protector as the Mac. User fault not Apple fault).
3. Every new generation of iPod carries some major flaw.
Such as? I still have a 1st gen iPod going strong. Also a 3rd gen and now a 'Classic'. None have had any issues that I'd call 'major'. In fact, none have had any issues at all - perhaps you've just been unlucky and bought a lemon.
4. iPods have always had LCD problems.
Please specify. As mentioned previously, own 1G/3G and latest iPods and all have LCDs working fine... what's the problem?
5. The hard drives have a hit or miss behavior and a very short lifespan.
I refer you to my 1G and 3G pods. I'd say that proves my point that some hard drives die and others don't. It's called wear and tear and is to be expected of moving parts. Just as a printer's heads wear out over time, or a car's tyres.
6. They don't support copy and paste and force use of iTunes.
Copy and paste of what? What would I copy on my iPod and to where? If you're talking about drag n drop support, or ripping music from the library on your iPod then you're wrong - 3rd party software has been capable of this since 1G iPods and still exists today. You're also not FORCED to use iTunes. It's just EASIER to use iTunes with an iPod. The 1G iPods didn't use iTunes for Windows (it didn't exist at the time) and Linux users manage OK without having any iTunes support at all - you just need to stop being lazy and go looking for the software that does what you want.
7. iTunes does not work on over 70% of non-OSX based systems.
So is this the fault of Apple? If people decide not to upgrade their PC to run at least Win2K then perhaps it's the users' fault? Why should Apple offer support for versions of Windows that even Microsoft no longer support (despite the fact that they do via the XP install of iTunes working on 2K? even MS don't support 2K anymore). Linux users don't NEED iTunes (and Apple wouldn't be able to release it for Linux under the GNU terms and keep their source as closed as they do).
8. iTunes has issues and flaws even on OSX.
You really need to be more specific. Which issues and flaws do you mean? Also, name me ONE piece of software that has no issues or flaws... if they existed they'd never be updated and you'd never be able to read about version histories and bug fixes. A very lame argument indeed.
9. Your iPod is locked to one system only... locking you out from your other computers or those who own a notebook and home system.
So you're arguing that I can't do what I already do - have an iTunes library/iPod on multiple machines? You're just plain wrong on this one I'm afraid in every way.
10. Seek times are sub-standard...
What is the 'standard' you are comparing them to? I'm sure you'll find the seek times of flash-based players (such as the iPod nano) are super-standard when compared to ANY manufacturer's hard drive based player. Without specifics, it's a bit like saying 'I like Ferraris because they're faster!' without quantifying that statement by appending 'than Humvees' or something along those lines.
11. ...and iPod is not fully supported as an external player on most systems such as Xbox 360 and other media players...
You seem to think the Xbox 360 is a media player, when it's main market niche is the game console industry. Strange... but to follow your train of thought (allowing for Media Centre Mods etc), the Zune player is equally as bad, because it's not supported by my Linux-box media centre, and there's no chance of ever having support for my Creative Zen on my PS2.
12. unless you buy an Apple TV which only allows playback of Apple video formats.
Hmmm... but if you're allowing for mods to Xbox to create a media centre, then you also have to allow for mods to the AppleTV (of which there's been numerous pieces info posted on the modding sites' wiki pages) which in fact allow a lot MORE to be done with the ATV than the XBMC. You want more apps in the 'front row' style menu - just a couple of minor hacks and you have VLC Player, Real Player, Flip4Mac, Quicktime, MPlayer - you name it - in the menu. You can do pretty much anything you want with it, after all it is just a stripped down Mac running OS X and very easy to configure any way you like.
13. Warranties aren't honored quite often. They have a Sony warranty policy... it's probably your fault and we won't fix it.
I beg to differ. One anecdotal piece of evidence I can give is the case of a friend who bought a second hand iPod off ebay. When he received it, it wasn't working. He's a Windows fanboy, but knowing I'm a long time Mac owner called in my help. We checked to make sure it wasn't a Mac formatted iPod that was causing problems, but it turned out the pod was just dead. I told him to ring Apple and ask their advice. They asked for his address and sent out a carrier collection to him (he just had to cover the cost of postage) to take it back to Apple to be looked at. They tried to repair the device, but concluded it was DOA, so instead replaced it with the closest equivalent (from their updated range - the one he'd sent was 2 years old, so he got a better one back)... all this for the price of postage, AND the iPod had been out of warranty for over 12 months!!! I'd say that's actually quite a GOOD level of after-sales support.
14. They offer a substandard product at a premium price and one by one people realize what is so wrong with Apple.
Their products seem to be of at least an equal quality to their major competitors, and in many cases superior for the price you're paying. Most PC laptops have only just (in the past 6 months or so) started to offer the level of hardware I had in my PBook 2 years ago... and I can pick up a 2 year old PBook G4 for a lot less than a brand new PC laptop. And from personal experience I find that one by one, people who switch to Macs (or Linux!) over Windows are realising just how bad their computing experience has been for all of those years. They're generally not interested in HOW it works, just that it does. And for MOST people it does just work.
15. If you think Microsoft was an "evil" corporation back in the 90s... then you don't know anything about what Apple has been up to.
If you think Apple are comparable to the 'evil' of MS in the 90's (and on this one I'm actually inclined to agree with you to a certain extent - as all corporations are inherently 'evil' in the same greedy way), then you don't know anything about what MS have been up to in the 21st Century, frankly they make their previous 'evils' look like a tea party, although that's a diversionary argument rather than a true reposte. Touche!
This is as absurd as the lawsuits against Microsoft. That said, let's not pretend that Apple doesn't have a monopoly just as Microsoft does. Fortunately, in both cases there are enough alternatives that it really doesn't matter since customers aren't harmed, which is ultimately what matters.
Ten years ago I did predict that many companies supporting the legal challenges to Microsoft would rue the day they did that. Once lawyers and governments find new ways to rob businesses, they don't let go of that power. As the EU has shown, harm to customers isn't the issue--revenue is.
1.) iTunes does not work on over 70% of non-OSX based systems.
2.) iTunes has issues and flaws even on OSX.
3.) Your iPod is locked to one system only... locking you out from your other computers or those who own a notebook and home system.
4.) iPod is not fully supported as an external player on most systems such as Xbox 360"
1.) Is that Apples fault if 70% of those non-OS X computers are old shitboxes? What about people who can't play the latest games on Windows? Same difference.
2.) Like IE or Word or any program never has flaws
3.) If you have your iTunes account verified on any of 5 computers, you can freely use your library on any of those systems, inluding protected content (I did this with my laptop; had all the songs on both and then just added the new songs to the other library)
4.) I thought there was a download for full iPod support on the 360? Still, Zune isn't even supported on Mac, so again, same difference.
they should also sue for not using ogg too - all players should ship with support for ogg. it sounds better and it is patent unecumbered and open source.
ogg should be the defacto standard - but then again all these greedy you know whats wouldn't be locking people in and making them pay multiple times for the same thing.
This is a ridiculous case. It seems that Apple are to blame for Microsoft's implementation of a DRM scheme in Windows Media Slayer!
If anybody tries to argue that Microsoft HAD to implement this DRM in WMA and WMV to satisfy content providers and otherwise would not have done so, then can I draw your attention to the fact that Windows Movie Maker encodes all of your home movies with WM10 DRM by default, thus locking out Mac users from playback, despite the fact that the program is designed for low-end editing of HOME MOVIES (for christsake!) and Mac users can play WMV and WMA files in Quicktime thanks to Flip4Mac's Windows Media Codecs. Why is this? Is this to please content providers? I don't think so.
Using that example as a baseline, why should Apple pay MS licensing fees to implement their DRM decoders (which don't exist for the Mac anyway) to handle DRM'd WMA files on a device that they don't advertise as capable of playing back WMA? iTunes can reencode WMA files to a format you CAN play back on the iPod (including Apple lossless - so no problems with reductions in quality). This is ALL about the DRM and in reality the focus shouldn't be on Apple, Microsoft or any of the end suppliers at all, it should be on the content providers' lack of vision in the marketplace, trying to force outdated sales models onto the consumer (like the recent argument that ripping your CD's to your mp3 collection should be outlawed and you should be forced to buy your albums again as downloads... after you have already replaced your original vinyl/tape versions with those CDs - how many times do they want us to buy the same old albums!?!?!?)
Throw the case (and the lawyer) out the window and have done with it! Consumers only consume what they CHOOSE to. You can only be sold something through advertising and hype if you're too stupid to ask some basic questions before you buy.