Microsoft's free Arcade title not enough, still hit with lawsuit over Xbox Live outages

We can't say that we're shocked to hear this -- you know, considering just how long those Xbox Live holiday blues went on -- but Microsoft is indeed being slapped with a class action lawsuit over the aforementioned outages. Reportedly, a trio of angered Texans are alleging that Microsoft didn't abide by its own contract when network issues disallowed a good chunk of Live users from getting their fix over the past few weeks. According to the complaint, MSFT understood that the time of year would lead to increased activity, yet "failed to provide adequate access and service to Xbox Live and its subscribers." Of course, we're betting the Redmond-based lawyers point out that clause about not guaranteeing any minimum level of service, but who knows, maybe we'll all end up with two shiny new Arcade titles.

[Thanks, Andre and Ben]

[Rohit Kapur @ Jan 5th 2008 11:08AM]

"Reportedly, a trio of angered Texans"

It all made perfect sense after the word "Texans".

[cortes.john @ Jan 5th 2008 11:39AM]

duh here in texas, its just the right thing to do

[James @ Jan 5th 2008 11:58AM]

I win 7 games in a row(plus a couple more here and there) in Halo 3, I'm still rank 23 >.> yet the buddy I was playing with is now 34. I was MVP 5 times out of those 7. Wtf Microsoft?

[Paul @ Jan 5th 2008 12:02PM]

i don't think someone named rohit kapur should be making fun of anybody.....

[Rohit Kapur @ Jan 5th 2008 1:35PM]

@ Paul:

You got a problem with my name?

So I take it you're racist, anyway, or just illiterate when it comes to anything outside your own community.

Either way, it doesn't matter. You're not worth my time, so I'm gonna stop now. And I sincerely hope you never find your way to India, or within the midst of an Indian community. If you say anything like that there, you might not be lucky enough to find someone like me who'll let it slide without much ado. :)

Moron.

[Jagannath A @ Jan 5th 2008 1:36PM]

i don't think someone named Paul should be trying to make fun of anybody.....

[Fred @ Jan 5th 2008 1:38PM]

I don't think that pointing out that you have an unusual name is racist, friend. Maybe you should calm down and realize that not everyone is a bigot. I'm not speaking for Paul, but I don't think he meant it the way you took it. Find a better reason to be pissy.

[Evan @ Jan 5th 2008 1:38PM]

10 points for Rohit.

What exactly were you thinking when you wrote that Paul?

[Rohit Kapur @ Jan 5th 2008 1:42PM]

@ Fred:

Which is exactly why I said "So I take it you're racist, anyway, or just illiterate when it comes to anything outside your own community."

Though he's not necessarily a racist, the fact that he thinks my name is so funny/obscure/stupid goes to show that he doesn't quite know much about non-American names.

Anyway, this is really not worth being dragged on for so long. Let's just drop it, and leave it be.

Peace! :)

[Jagannath A @ Jan 5th 2008 1:46PM]

chill Rohit...

dont get provoked... make rebuttals with style.. not with anger ;)

[Michael @ Jan 5th 2008 2:28PM]

Rohit, why are you getting pissy? You made fun of Texans and now you're pissed because someone called you on it? If you don't want people making comments, then stop making them yourself. Have you even been to Texas?

[rewb @ Jan 5th 2008 2:31PM]

Ah. So Paul is a racist for pointing out your name.

What's that make you for your negative stereotype that you liberally applied to Texans?

Don't get me wrong Rohit, I thought your original comment was funny, but if you're going to freak out over what Paul said then you probably shouldn't have made yourself look like such a hypocrite for calling out Texans.

[ssuk @ Jan 5th 2008 3:21PM]

Regardless of this argument, I also agree with Rohit... I rolled my eyes once I read "Texans".

[Paul @ Jan 5th 2008 6:00PM]

wow my comment sure did get a lot of replies......
@ Rohit
i wasn't trying to be racist with what i said, there are plenty of amercian names that i think are funny/obscure/stupid also that i would make fun of too so chill out. besides, i know names like yours, i talk to them on xbox live support when i get routed to india on the phone.....
@ Evan and Rohit
read what Michael and rewb said....
@ Jagannath A
wow that sure was creative what your first post said, congratulations.....

[robert clark @ Jan 7th 2008 10:00AM]

Wow! you must be from Oklahoma ...

[Jonathan Keim @ Jan 12th 2008 12:19AM]

lol :-)

[Flashpoint @ Jan 5th 2008 11:09AM]

Here I am last night playing coD4 with just 76 points left till I reach Brigadier General. I could have gotten 1000 XP just by killing 3 guys with the M4 (M4 Challeneg).

Couldn't log into a single goddamn host without the game dropping - and I tried like 30 times.

I'm not sure what Microsoft plans to do about the outages as far as compensation goes but I DEMAND RECOMPENSATION.

You can give me 1000 gPoints towards movie downloads
so I can watch "CHAINED HEAT 2" and "Babylon 5 Lost Tales" - or some Aqua Teen episodes.

[James Ollier @ Jan 5th 2008 11:20AM]

Heres a tip: Why don't you stop being a spoilt prat and try again in a few days. Maybe then you can get your oh so important 1000Xp

[Josef @ Jan 5th 2008 11:39AM]

You tried 30 times?!?!? Oh my God! You should sue!!!!

[Dragod @ Jan 5th 2008 11:47AM]

I DEMAND YOU REALIZE HOW STUPID YOU SOUND.

I don't know if you've ever worked with servers, let alone ones containing info for so many members, but they're no easy thing. You sound like the guy who walks into a store and starts yelling at a salesperson because something is out of stock. Sometimes, these things are unavoidable.

[Gian @ Jan 5th 2008 12:07PM]

Ummm...Dragod...Windows Server sucks. I work with servers everyday. They all work, just about all the time. Outages never last this long. Of course, I use FreeBSD. Keeping them running IS an easy thing. There really is no good excuse for the outages. Microsoft get better network engineers and systems engineers. It sounds like the ones they have now are idiots.

[wraith808 @ Jan 5th 2008 1:55PM]

Actually, it sounds like you're the idiot, since you're pronouncing fault without full knowledge of the problem.

Chew on that one for a while, won't you?

[Gian @ Jan 6th 2008 10:53AM]

@Wraith808

You obviously have never worked for a large service provider. If
Microsoft had an efficient and properly redundant network to support
the traffic, as well as good IPS boxes in place, a good backup system
for their servers, and proper sparing contracts with their vendors,
these outages would have lasted no more than a day.

Short of the whole building blowing up, which is another reason to
have a distributed system, there is no excuse for how long the
service was down. Traffic can be redirected to backup systems.
Servers can be rebuilt from scratch. These things can happen very
quickly. Their only excuse is incompetence.

Personally, I don't use XBox Live and couldn't care less about the
outages. My argument is simply one of reasonable outage times.

I have worked for many large service providers, and they would have
been sued into oblivion for outages this big. A single class-action
lawsuit, with many folks saying it is unfounded, is very telling.
People tolerate a very large amount of low-quality service and
product from Microsoft. Everyone seems to think it's okay to get
screwed.

Stupidity is boundless when it comes to Microsoft

[Dorian @ Jan 14th 2008 6:10PM]

>You obviously have never worked for a large service provider. If
>Microsoft had an efficient and properly redundant network to support
>the traffic, as well as good IPS boxes in place, a good backup system
>for their servers, and proper sparing contracts with their vendors,
>these outages would have lasted no more than a day.

Ok, this is based on the fact that we are ASSUMING they had a systems outage. Microsoft hasn't stated ANYTHING, at least nothing official, about their outage. The above is the closest, and hints that the issue is not an outage, rather a bandwidth issue.
Second, since you have worked with an IT company that does hosting, I'm sure you can understand the billions of $'s that go into building the mainframe that Microsoft uses, if not, stop replying, you'll only make yourself sound stupid.
And finally, yes, redundant systems are great, Especially when you have space. Our server room hosts roughly 400 different customers servers, for an approximate 700+ servers, our rack room is about 1600sq ft. This includes AC systems, AC monitoring systems, Power backup, and 2 generator boxes that take power from our diesel generators. If we were to use a redundancy system on Every single server there, the costs for customers would be rather high, (with simple servers ranging from 5000-50000 a piece. Some database servers have ranged up higher than that...) and the space required would be a lot higher, over 3500sq ft.


>Short of the whole building blowing up, which is another reason to
>have a distributed system, there is no excuse for how long the
>service was down. Traffic can be redirected to backup systems.
>Servers can be rebuilt from scratch. These things can happen very
>quickly. Their only excuse is incompetence.

I do agree that the outage has been going on for a lot longer than it should, however, we still have not been told what the actual issue is. For all we know, it is related to this issue http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/082107-gunplay-blamed-for-internet.html
If they had to re-lay one of their fiber optic cables... it could take some time.
Also, it seems to me that there was a longer outage in certain areas. Up in Vancouver BC (just north of the border from Seattle Washington) the outage only lasted for 3-5 days... That's not much of a stretch without gaming online, and if it was a bandwidth issue that needed additional systems in place to fix, about 3-5 days is the time that would be needed to setup redundancy, test it, and then put it online.


Personally, I don't use XBox Live and couldn't care less about the
outages. My argument is simply one of reasonable outage times.

>I have worked for many large service providers, and they would have
>been sued into oblivion for outages this big. A single class-action
>lawsuit, with many folks saying it is unfounded, is very telling.
>People tolerate a very large amount of low-quality service and
>product from Microsoft. Everyone seems to think it's okay to get
>screwed.
>
>Stupidity is boundless when it comes to Microsoft

With your answers, I'd almost assume that you are saying that you have worked for an ISP. ISP's don't host info on the same scale that a hosting company, and hosting companies don't host anything like what X-Box Live is running. Not to excuse Microsoft for the extended outages, but again, we still are not positive on what exactly happened, for all we know, one of their ISP hubs blew up, and needs to be fabricated, shipped, installed, and tested before they can re-launch their system... It's not unheard of for large companies, Microsoft for example, to use one of a kind systems that use specialized one of a kind hardware, if it breaks in a way that wasn't expected, it can very quickly cause lengthy outages.

[Brad @ Jan 5th 2008 11:09AM]

I despise lawsuit happy people. Get a life. Good luck in court, 3 Texans vs Microsoft Lawyers....hmmm.

[cortes.john @ Jan 5th 2008 11:41AM]

you underestimate the power of texans.. chuck norris is one himself

[Gian @ Jan 5th 2008 12:14PM]

You're assuming all lawsuits, or at least those against Microsoft, are frivolous. That's just stupid. Some things are simply not covered under criminal law and require civil action. Contract violations fall under civil law. If someone welched on a deal with you, and you got screwed, would you just take it?

When someone takes advantage of you, you should make them understand what their doing is wrong. For most people, rich and poor alike, there is no better way than a financial punishment.

If fear of a lawsuit can keep companies and individuals a little more honest, so be it.

[Fred @ Jan 5th 2008 12:24PM]

Not all just this one. Blatantly stupid and without merit. No permanent damage has been done to anyone here. A lawsuit has to prove some sort of damage, some loss. I doubt very seriously that any court in the land is going to look at your Halo 3 Service Record and say, "Oh yeah, I can see where you missed out on that triple kill, and you deserve recompense!!!" Come on people get real. BTW, Dallas, TX here so it's not all of us.

[David W. @ Jan 5th 2008 1:27PM]

@Fred

Permanent damage doesn't have to be involved...We ARE paying for the service, but unless they have a BUNCH of users behind them (since it's a class action lawsuit), then this is absolutely stupid. We're paying at most $5 a month...we're going on two weeks so that would be $2.50 per person, 3 people in this lawsuit...so $7.40...a cheap lawyer would cost a couple hundred bucks...not to mention all the court fees involved...they're going to lose money even if they win...

[Evan @ Jan 5th 2008 1:42PM]

I can pretty much guarantee somewhere in the XBLive TOS (which I did not read but said I did) there is a clause about possible live downtime. The lawsuit is without merit.

[Fred @ Jan 5th 2008 1:42PM]

I guess what I'm saying is that while you are paying for a service you didn't receive, you are being compensated. You may not like what you're getting, but it is something. There's a saying that the way you know that you got a good deal is that neither party is happy with what they got, and I'm sure that MS doesn't WANT to give people anything.

[Too full of myself to care @ Jan 11th 2008 1:58AM]

@cortes.john - Chuck Norris resides in Texas, but he is an Okie.

[Chris.L @ Jan 5th 2008 11:10AM]

I doubt this will pass, but its nice to see that someone is taking action against MS.
This really makes them look bad, even if it doesn't pass.

I don't even want 1 arcade game...I want something else...maybe some MS points?

[BNash @ Jan 5th 2008 11:32AM]

Are you really that selfish? Any sane person looking at a lawsuit like this would laugh in those Texans' faces. It is ridiculous to think a company could anticipate and instantly rectify the massive activity that MS incurred. Just relate Xbox Live to any other pay service, i.e. Cable TV, satellite, Cell phone service, Internet etc. At some point, each one of those services has gone down at some point but there is now way you could every possibly think one of those going down caused you 5 Million in damages. I hope this instantly gets thrown out of court and the judge laughs at someone, either the Texans or their lawyers who thought this would fly.

[Dragod @ Jan 5th 2008 11:51AM]

"I lost $2.50 worth of time from my Xbox Live subscription. I just spent $10 in gas to get here. I demand Microsoft hand over ONE MILLYEEN DOLLARS."

[nikola @ Jan 5th 2008 12:05PM]

"Any sane person looking at a lawsuit like this would laugh in those Texans' faces..... Just relate Xbox Live to any other pay service, i.e. Cable TV, satellite, Cell phone service, Internet etc. At some point, each one of those services has gone"

Well dickwad, what kind of internet/phone/cable/satellite do you have that goes out for weeks at a time? Our electric company was hit with a $60MILLION fine they had to pay back to customers because the power went out a little longer than the nation average. Normal use should not equal extended outages. Unless MS got hit with a severe storm that cut power lines to their servers they don't really have an excuse for WEEKS of interrupted service. Some people probably paid the 100s of dollars for the console specifically for that service. ANY SANE PERSON would & should sue their provider if they regularly had outages for that duration.

[James @ Jan 5th 2008 12:07PM]

Any other pay for service doesn't have as much money as microsoft. And that being said, I expect perfection. You you buy a 3000$ MacBook Pro. You expect perfection. When you buy a 600$ watch, expect perfection. When my service goes down and it's run by a company with a vast amount of money on top of the fact that it's the only console you have to pay for. I expect perfection.

[Josef @ Jan 5th 2008 1:05PM]

nikola: "Our electric company was hit with a $60MILLION fine they had to pay back to customers because the power went out a little longer than the nation average"

The difference there is that nobody ever died of heat stroke or pneumonia because they're internet gaming went down. Just put on your big girl panties and deal with it.

[Josef @ Jan 5th 2008 2:02PM]

"their internet gaming"



grrrr....the only thing worse than when other people do that is when I do that.

[Flashpoint @ Jan 5th 2008 11:12AM]

Its amaizing how people understand the demand for "reparations" after they themselves experience loss and disenfranchisement.

[Flashpoint @ Jan 5th 2008 11:13AM]

890,000+ Xbox live gamers Vs. Microsoft.

[CUBSWILLWIN @ Jan 5th 2008 12:10PM]

maybe steve jobs inspired the whole thing as a plot to make microsofts stock go down to 7 dollars. =)

[Josef @ Jan 5th 2008 1:09PM]

The problem with that math is that the majority of XBL gamers, when faced with an outage, will blink at the screen a couple times, say "fuck" and then GO DO SOMETHING ELSE.

[wraith808 @ Jan 5th 2008 1:55PM]

@josef

Agreed. Get a life; I mean I like Live and all, but it's not worth clogging up our overloaded court systems with a frivolous lawsuit.

[Chris @ Jan 5th 2008 11:17AM]

I'm going to guess Microsoft have better lawyers than these folks.

[MatthewJ @ Jan 5th 2008 11:19AM]

I found it odd that Microsoft couldn't actually keep track of how many Gold subscriptions had been sold and therefore couldn't predict demand. Surely that would be a fairly good indication? If not, then just estimate it from how many new Xboxes were sold! And if they didn't expect all those people to logon on Christmas day, they don't deserve your subscription payments!

[Dragod @ Jan 5th 2008 11:57AM]

It's not like that information is sent to them as they are sold... It all comes in at one time, I believe. The only Live subscriptions they would know about would be the ones bought on the Xbox itself, which I doubt people would pay for (atleast I wouldn't) because you get an extra month from the 12+1 month card, and online you get charge a processing fee. And when they're bought online, it's not like they have much time to react and hook up more servers.

[Stallone @ Jan 5th 2008 11:24AM]

2008 sure isn't a great year for microsoft so far...

Live issues, lawsuits, Warner jumping to blu-ray, cancellation of HD DVD press conference, suing apple for monopoly..

wow, unlike 2007, 2008 seems to be shining good for sony so far though

[Yeah8a8y @ Jan 5th 2008 11:37AM]

5 days in, at least give Sony the chance to F**K things up

[Andrew @ Jan 5th 2008 11:42AM]

-Microsoft gets sued for crap all the time, all the big companies do. People think they should have the right to take money from valid businesses just because they are less successful.

-The only real tie that MS has to the HD-DVD is that it is offered as an optional add-on to the 360. Looks like they covered their asses, huh? Now they don't look so stupid as if they included it straight away.

So really...Not doing that bad, are they?