Bill Gates: the exit interview
By Ryan Block 
posted January 7th 2008 7:34PM
posted January 7th 2008 7:34PM
Thanks so much for meeting with us. I appreciate it. So I was at the keynote last night and I saw the video that you did. Being that you're looking for a job, I just wanted to let you know we're always hiring--
Excellent --
... looking for editors anytime. I know you've written some stuff for the Guardian recently--
Well I love your stuff.
You know where to find me.
Ok.
[Laughter]
So I was at D this year and obviously you and Jobs were at it as well. And you guys got up on stage together, I think that was -- besides being a really historic moment -- very emotional for a lot of people in the audience. I want to know what it was like for you personally. I think a lot of people were confused as to whether or it was truly bittersweet, or just bitter. I felt it was really bittersweet.
Oh, I like Steve. And I've always been extremely complimentary of the impact he's had on the industry. Part of it, in terms of that whole crowd though, is that the personal computer industry was started by people who were very young and there was a set of people who believed in it and all kind of grew up together. So Steve and I are virtually the same age -- he's a little bit older, he got into it about three years after we had done the original personal computer stuff -- and he was my sixteenth customer for the BASIC interpreter. I had done the Commodore six months before, if you remember that, I had done the TRS-80 eight months before, and then they needed the floating point basic. I came out and I actually worked more with Woz -- Steve wasn't a hands-on engineer involved in that thing -- because Woz had been trying to do his own BASIC but just couldn't get it done.
So we've always worked together on various things. When Steve did the Mac, that was our closest relationship. That was about thirty people at Microsoft, twenty people at Apple betting on moving the graphical interface into the mainstream. That was a phenomenal experience because we did the only 3rd party software that was on that machine the day that it shipped. And when they went 512 [kilobytes of memory], we did some stuff. They thought [Lotus] Jazz was going to the breakthrough product, but we showed them that Excel was the breakthrough product. So there's always been good back and forth. I am very sincere that Steve has unique skills that I just don't have at all and it's been phenomenal to see how he has been able to make a difference with what he's done.
So when you got up there, what was it like for you emotionally? I mean, Steve quoted the Beatles; it felt like there was just this bizarre camaraderie / rivalry that is almost inexplicable.
Oh absolutely. We had a chance -- I think Steve and I are the two luckiest people in the industry in terms of the center seat we've had, and the involvement we've have been able to have. And we know that it's been a special thing and where we work together it's helped the industry, and even when we've competed it has probably been good for the industry.
So I read this GQ article, the profile that I guess they did of you around the time the new Zunes launched, and it was funny because the one thing they really focused on was that when they spoke to you, you seemed really checked out. In your last few months of tenure at Microsoft -- what is that like? Are you really spending all of your time on the Foundation right now? Or, are you still really focused on the technology?
I am totally full time Microsoft. As hardcore as ever -- you can ask anybody at the company. But come July 1st that will change. Maybe even the month of June will be goofy, not because I'll be focused on other things, but because, it being the last month, they'll be some special things and people that I'll go around and talk to. But in terms of lots of meetings of making our search better, the next version of Office, the next version of Windows -- I'm working harder now than any time in the last decade.
Well, the tablet is not mainstream. Reading off the screen is not mainstream. Getting your TV over the internet -- we talked here about how Mediaroom is up to a million users. But that's just on its way to mainstream, that's not mainstream yet. So when I think about all the different scenarios, there are some that we've have made a lot more progress than on than others. Productivity, for example, although there is still a lot to be done on that. Computing in the cloud is this whole new frontier of how you make software automatically manage the hardware resources, recover, and load balance -- there's some phenomenal things we are doing related to that, both for the consumer and business computing. So this is an amazing time. I believe that all these things will happen but it takes time. Just like the medical technology -- things I'll be working on in the future -- those will take more time than I'd like.
Speaking of productivity, I think that Microsoft has really, if anything, totally nailed productivity over the years and totally nailed business and the enterprise market -- and that's really been the backbone of Microsoft business. But do you ever feel like there has been any regrets about shortcomings in the consumer market? As in, not really focusing on the consumer front the way that Jobs and Apple does? Or do you feel like you have really covered all of those bases?
I think the key thing is the concept of the personal computer and the software industry. That's what we started in 1975 and the core of the company is that platform. There are third party applications that are on Windows to do consumer-like things -- I think as we get speech and touch and mainstream pen into them, you'll see a wave of those that are dramatically better. That's our key role. Yes, Microsoft itself will do photos and music and all that, but the thing that has always differentiated our platform is the breadth of third party solutions. The hardware variety and that software applications variety. And we need new frontiers, of which I think natural interface and service-connections (that I talked about last night) -- those are going to enable these new things. So we are proud of the games work that people are doing on Windows but these breakthroughs can take that to the new level. I think that emphasis on third parties is something we've always done better than anyone else and hopefully it will hold us in a good position.
On the Windows side. One hundred million licenses, obviously that's an enormous amount. But I think in the last few months, especially within from media and the blogosphere and all of these different places, Vista specifically is getting hit really hard with a lot of negative PR -- a pretty big backlash from users who are downgrading to XP. Or at least a lot of people talking about downgrading. Do you feel like right now you are leaving under a cloud? That the company's core product not meeting consumer expectations?
I wouldn't say that. Any version of Windows is going to have lots of great new things that people use and things that are tough. With Vista, a lot of it's the transition from XP to Vista. Did we get the device drivers ready in the right way and time? Did we make it easy to do the upgrades as well as we should? When people get up and running on Vista they are basically quite happy. Not perfect -- but quite happy. It is that transition where we definitely need to get a better job up on that piece.
Now, in time, more of those drivers are becoming available. It is definitely a product where we look back and say, okay, a lot of good things but we are going to change the things where it just didn't become trivial to step up to the new version. That's always been a hard with Windows and we're looking at some of those challenges and why we didn't think they'd be as hard as they were -- and making sure that we do better at it. The feedback is important to us, but it is a product that has lots of good features. I encourage people to use it! We are proud of the features in there!
Well, of course! But are you personally fully satisfied with it?
I'm never fully satisfied with any Microsoft product.
Like the saying, "Software is never complete, only abandoned"?
There are always the features that I wanted to get in, or the things that I wish were a little more polished. The people who are good in these companies are really sort of ridiculously demanding people. They have to sort of know when to back off so that thing can eventually ship. But I look at any product -- and I'm better at Microsoft products -- and say what I wished what was better about the product.
In terms of the Foundation [which focuses partly using technology to enhance health care in developing nations], is it your intention to run that as you would a software company, or as you would a technology company?
Of course not. The nature of the problem is very different. I do not think technology companies are not all of one ilk either. Here at the foundation you have researchers in academia, great scientists in drug companies, you've got rich-world governments, poor-world governments, non-profit organizations, you've got to activate the public. The biggest part of the Foundation is solving twenty diseases. Malaria, AIDS, TB -- some diseases, because they are only in the poorest countries, rich people have never even heard of, like visceral leishmaniasis. In the top ten, -- but not broad awareness.
So the way we are going to orchestrate more energy and more resources, where we'll get a lot more progress where there is some market failure -- there is no market incentive driving these things -- that is going to require invention. And I wouldn't enjoy it if it wasn't at very early stage. And I am going to have to learn lots of things going back. I've got a great library of science, biology type things. The second half of the year I will spend lots of the year boning up on them.
Well I've been part time on the Foundation and there is great full-time people there including Patty Stonesifer (the CEO), and my wife spends time. So I wouldn't say it's a huge discontinuity. We are going from $1.5 billion in grants a year in 2006 to $3 billion in 2009. So we are on a ramp, which means we are more ambitious. As we make breakthroughs, like new vaccines, then you actually need more money to get the manufacturer to fund the delivery systems. But fortunately the public's awareness of these things have gone up somewhat. The Global Fund and the work that Bono has done together with us has started to get a little bit of consensus about what needs to be done.
So I'm going to be reaching out to business leaders who I think can get their companies more involved and using their expertise, and hopefully my voice will help with that. I'll be talking with other philanthrophists telling them about how much fun I'm having doing it and suggesting that I'd love to see if we can get them involved. So there are some things that I think I'd bring to it that my [full-time position at the Foundation] will let me do that haven't been done. But the goal of the Foundation in terms of making the health of the poorest two billion as good as the richest two billion -- that has been there from the beginning and I'm just really doing things to accelerate it.
One last question: what kinds of pet technology products do you think you'll be keeping at Microsoft? You've got to have your fingers in the pie a little bit!
I love natural user interface and particularly the research groups to do that. I want to stay involved with that and make sure that when it's time to really put these things in the mainstream that Microsoft is jumping on it and taking that big risk. Search is obviously a huge thing for us that we put about a brilliant people on. Right now -- people don't know -- can do something really differentiated that could be fun to help drive that piece forward? Steve [Ballmer] will pick; my non-Microsoft time I'll be thinking about software for health systems and education. So I will probably be over at Microsoft seeing where their breakthroughs can help in those areas. But the day of the week that I'll be at Microsoft will be probably three projects, I'd guess.
Thank you so much for meeting with us.
You bet! Good talking to you.
Good luck!
"He sucks the ideas from revolutionaries like Steve Jobs "
Riiight.. yeah and where exactly did Steve Jobs get the idea of the GUI from? Oh and what decision was it that all but sunk Apple? The energy of the Ego on Steve Jobs could power a small african village. It's entirely possible that Apple could have taken the lead, but Jobs screwed up. Big time.
Some of you guys are seriously delusional, or children, or both.
Bill Gates is a business man. A good business man. A great business man. While I'm certainly not in favor of the corporate run society of today (or rather the laws governing.. or rather, NOT, governing corporations), there's no denying that without Microsoft and it's business practices the personal (and in many ways, professional, on a vertical level) computing market would be a TERRIBLE mess. The clout that microsoft has ensures a mass singular (or at least focused) direction which is in any emerging technologies best interest.
Competition is good to stir up the pot, to force new idas, and if an idea is truely revolutionary, someone will get paid their dues.. and Microsoft has paid a lot of people their dues. But too much competition is confusing to the market. Could you have imagined if IBM sold DOS, MacOS, Windows, Linux, HP Unix, CPM and AmigaOS all at the same time?
Hell look at the landscape of unix today... it only has a community based driving force, and frankly it looks even further from it's shot at the home desktop today than it ever did. You can't escape the power of marketing (as disgusting as marketing is, IMO) and the lazyness and apathy of the human race. Microsoft essentially made decisions for people who wern't equipped (for whatever the reason) to do so themselves. Those people outnumber the rest of us, and they're the ones that drive the market.
My life, as a software developer for vertical markets would be a severe pain in the ass if it weren't for Windows being the overwhelming standard.
As for Gates future, I can only hope his domineering business practices under the guise of "for the greater good" carry over to his charity work. I can't tell you how often I cringe at the thought of all the competition in Charitiable companies and how all that competition hurts the market (i.e. the people in the greatest need). What these situations need are leaders and people who will unify (buy up the competition) the various efforts... the American Government had the best shot in the world to do this and has failed so many times to show itself as a leader in represenational foreign aid.. and this is why Bill Clinton is much happier where he is now because he knows he can't achieve the same things in office as he can as a private citizen. With Buffets money, Gate's business savy and Clinton's charm they could seriously affect some big changes on this planet.
I am not a religious person, but this whining about abortion and contraceptives is counter productive. People are dying by the thousands due to diesies, famine, genocides and civil wars and you're concerned about a stance that promotes the production of life in an places of the earth where life is all too short?! W-T-F Mate?
Whether you love or hate MS there is no bought Bill Gates is up there with the great creators of all time (not sure whether Inventor was the right label that dose suggest he came up with idea’s by himself).
I feel sorry that his dream of the ‘Surface’ didn’t quite make it after trying since the 80’s, it is as he thought one of the future pathways of human/software interaction (I just don’t think he secured the right patents with the infra-red idea).
Well, like the old super companies of days gone by, maybe it’s time for a change (or not). Funny to think that MS may well be a thing of the past in the future, personally I’m glad I’ve grown up with them (for all there faults). I still look at MS like a throw back to 80’s nostalgia, Bill Gates with his granddad dress sense and slightly mad scientist look, I love all that stuff.
Good Luck Bill Gates, never knew you personally but I look at your handy work every day.
I just dont see the need to hate on Bill in this one. A guy managed to make this whole MS thing work. I wouldnt even know where to start. And for those of you who are going crazy about linux; i just dont see how is linux so great? and yes i tried and i am still trying.. Its free or wtever and if it was that great or eaqual to Ms products i am sure people wouldnt spend money on windows. Its like me going on a street in New York City and taking half of a pile of those news papers that people give out for free, and then standing next to him and trying to sell the same exact paper. Wonder how much i would sell...
I have a mac and a pc at home.. i use both. Mac for cetrain things pc mainly for video games and work.
Linux runs great as server.. i must admit. But what on earth are you going to do with linux at a work place where company does not revolve around IT ? Lets say real estate or some cookie manucaturer for example? With windows; i can go to bestbuy and buy stuff insert it in my drive and have it running within minutes without having to worry about any extra nonsense.
And i know somebody is gonna say that MS took over everything or wtever. Well number one goal of any business is to make as much money as possible. So where whas linux at that time. You are saying that government should control the free market.. pretty much. Look how far russia got with that lol
I want to know what computer bill uses.
yeah, is he using a prebuilt (but obviously ultra high end, maybe a little customized) PC from some brand, or did he go ghetto and build his own from scratch?
:D totally fun geeky curiosity.
he probably uses a mac.
Alas, the Bill Gates Era has come to an end... he will be dearly missed yet he will go down in history for being the man who's given the most input/effort on the technology scene.
Good Bye Bill, Happy Retirement, you deserve it ;-)
I agree with the poster who said he uses a Mac but Bill's a great man. He's one of the few who started at the beginning of the industry and continues to drive it forward. Not always in the ways that I want to use it but you can't have competition without 2 strong players. Apple and Microsoft have always made for great corporate-porn, and it'll be sad to see him leave the scene.
But we'll still have the chair-throwing Balmer for a while longer - so that's good.
I have nothing to add to the discussion, but just had to remark: I've never read a readers comments page before that didn't degenerate into flaming within a half- or two dozen comments. Engadget readers must be a step above--how refreshing.
From being a teenage entrepreneur to one of the most successful distinguished person on earth, Bill Gates will retire with dignity, respect and oodles of money.
Even if you don't like Microsoft products you can at least admire how far he's gotten with a goal and an ambition to achieve it.
Dude, you got a Dell!
wow, there goes a great man.
1984:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0FtgZNOD44&feature=related
1984:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6203506464570325295
1993
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j02b8Fuz73A
Some people need to get a clue.
Great interview, well done.
Thanks for the great report. You guys are the best.
I understand why you did this reverse chrono, you wanted the newest stuff on top for everyone following you "live". But now that the keynote is done, maybe you can invert it? That way someone who missed it live (like me) could read it the way it happened...