Penryn-based Mac Pro gets benchmarked

It's just been a short two days since Apple rolled out its latest Mac Pro update, but that was apparently more than enough time for the folks at Primate Labs to get their hands on one and put it through its paces. They only got the 2.8GHz model, however, so they weren't quite able to fully back up Apple's claims that it's the "fastest Mac ever," but that's not to say they didn't find plenty to be impressed with. In particular, while the new system trailed the older, 3.0GHz model in floating point performance, it edged it out in integer, memory and stream performance -- a feat all the more impressive considering the new 2.8GHz Penryn system is a fair bit cheaper than its speedier predecessor. Of course, those less concerned with saving a few bucks can opt for the new, top-end 3.2GHz model, which should give you plenty of benchmark bragging rights until Apple dishes out its next update.

[Via AppleInsider]

[David J. Heinrich @ Mar 15th 2008 8:15PM]

A lot of the comments here are misconceived. Many applauded Zak for his dismissal of Jesse S., yet Zak failed in that to anyone who is knowledgeable. He failed because he didn't do any research on the components Zak (and another poster) listed, and simply relied on his own ignorance of those manufacturers and components to do the judgment. Lian-Li makes the best computer cases on the market. Their V2000 series can hold 7x 5.25" bays, 1x 3.5" external, and 12x 3.5" internal, as well as a 7 PCI slots. That's a hell of a lot more than you can put in a Mac Pro. Tyan, along with Supermicro, make the best server/workstation motherboards that money can buy; they have an impeccable reputation for quality and stability. Their m/b's that support 2-, 4-, or 8-CPUs all have support for numerous SATA/SAS drives, RAID, numerous PCI slots, as well as numerous eSATA / Firewire / USB.

The components that Jesse and Rueben listed are not hacked-together junk (well, except for the 1000W Antec PSU, Antec PSUs over 300-500 Watts are junk...go with Enermax, PC Power & Cooling, Zippy/Emacs, Seasonic, or Silverstone...and when in doubt, just PC Power & Cooling; while their PSUs may not always be as fully-featured as others, they have rock-solid build quality and 5- to 7-year warranties). And home-built systems are not just un-thought out pieces of junk made with predominantly plastic; they can be that, or they can be better than anything else on the market. And yes, for the same quality, they will often be cheaper.

The other issue with pre-built systems is that they're, well, of limited customizeability. For what many people do, having 2 quad-core processors isn't that important. But it might be more important to have more room for PCI slots, and more than 4 hard-drives.

Of course, this isn't a knock against Macs. I think that of the pre-built systems, they are clearly the best both in quality and value. Btw, there is no-longer a fundamental distinction between Macs and PC's anymore, since they're all based off of the same CPU (except that PC's may also be AMD). Basically, a Mac is just a PC with OSX, and Intel (as opposed to AMD processor), and generally better built quality. Their cases are similar to Lian-Li designs, which has prompted a number of ignorant fanboys to accuse Lian-Li of just copying them (despite the fact that Lian-Li has had that grilled hole design for a long time). I'm curious who makes or designs Apple's cases...I wouldn't be surprised if it was Lian-Li, because the Mac-cases are I think all-aluminum, and all-around very similar to Lian-Li. One thing I do like about the new Mac-Pro though is the wireless HD-install...nifty.

In any event, it could be seen as pretty insulting when people refer to a system built on a Lian-Li case and a Tyan (or Supermicro) motherboard as "slapped together".

PS: The reason for the Mac Pro's lack of prowess in the HD category (compared to Lian-Li) is because its MP is smaller than even the Lian-Li's super-Mid-tower line, the V1200 Plus II. The Mac-Book Pro is "only" 1.76 cubic feet in volume, while the V1200 Plus II is 2.27 cubic feet, and the V2000 Plus II is 2.86 cubic feet.

[Jesse S @ Jan 10th 2008 4:16PM]

And only for 10x the price if you were to build it yourself!

[Elliott @ Jan 10th 2008 4:21PM]

Well that 1000% markup is to help pay for making it look pretty.

[Elliott @ Jan 10th 2008 4:21PM]

Well that 1000% markup is to help pay for making it look pretty.

[Elliott @ Jan 10th 2008 4:21PM]

Well that 1000% markup is to help pay for making it look pretty.

[Elliott @ Jan 10th 2008 4:22PM]

whoa holy crap...guess that means I gotta fix the firewall...

[Stevearino @ Jan 10th 2008 4:31PM]

If you can build me a similar pc for $280 I'll take ten of them.

[Zak @ Jan 10th 2008 4:40PM]

Well I'm sorry that you have a tiny penis. See, isn't it fun to play "let's say things we can't prove"? Now if you could actually prove that you could build a system using Apple's specs for considerably less money I'd love to see it. But you can't, so I'll just go ahead and say your mom is ugly and your feet smell. It's true because I'm on the internet!

[Jesse S @ Jan 10th 2008 5:41PM]

Sony NEC Optiarc 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black SATA Model AD-7190S - OEM
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$28.99




LIAN LI PC-V1000APlus II Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

LIAN LI PC-V1000APlus II Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
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-$30.00 Instant


$229.99
$199.99




HITACHI Deskstar P7K500 HDP725025GLA380 (0A35399) 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

HITACHI Deskstar P7K500 HDP725025GLA380 (0A35399) 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Item #: N82E16822145211
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$63.99




HIS Hightech H260XT256G4DDN-R Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB 128-bit GDDR4 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Supported Video Card

HIS Hightech H260XT256G4DDN-R Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB 128-bit GDDR4 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
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CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX ATX12V / EPS12V 750W Power Supply

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$179.99
$169.99




TYAN S5382WAG2NRF Dual 771 Intel 5000P Extended ATX Server Motherboard

TYAN S5382WAG2NRF Dual 771 Intel 5000P Extended ATX Server Motherboard - OEM
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$529.99
$500.00




Intel Xeon E5440 Harpertown 2.83GHz LGA 771 80W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80574E5440A

Intel Xeon E5440 Harpertown 2.83GHz LGA 771 80W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80574E5440A - Retail
Item #: N82E16819117143
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy



$1,468.00
($734.00 each)




Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) ECC Fully Buffered Dual Channel Kit Server Memory Model KVR667D2D8F5K2/2G

Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) ECC Fully Buffered Dual Channel Kit Server Memory Model KVR667D2D8F5K2/2G - Retail
Item #: N82E16820134330
Return Policy: Memory (Modules, USB) Return Policy

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$136.99
$106.99

Subtotal: $2,665.94
Keyboard - IBM Model M $10 - $20 on Ebay
Mouse - $20 - $80 (depends on what you want)

Did I miss anything?

Sure, it may not be much less than $2800, but you're probably getting a better motherboard, and you are getting a nicer case, keyboard, and mouse.

And I didn't even priceshop. There are much better deals to be had on places other than Newegg.

[CraigJ @ Jan 10th 2008 5:54PM]

you missed: Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit, Hard Drive is 320 not 250. I think the card in the Mac is a Pro, not an XT...

[Zak @ Jan 10th 2008 6:08PM]

So... you're bad at math then? What happened to "10x more"? Also, you failed in a couple places. First of all that's the wrong processor. The Mac Pro has dual independant 1600 MHz FSBs because it uses E5462 processors. You used E5440s. Also, does that motherboard support 32 GB of memory?Second, does that case have 4 drive bays and 2 optical bays? It also needs two independent gigabit ethernet ports, two Firewire 800 ports, two Firewire 400 ports, 5 USB 2.0 ports, optical TOSLINK audio in and out in addition to analog. It also needs to have Bluetooth+EDR 2.0.

Even without all that stuff, you still only managed to get your system $100 cheaper than Apple's. And then to really make it comparable to the Mac Pro you need to make it run nearly silently, get it so that the interior of the case is nearly wireless (look inside a Mac Pro to see what I mean). And what the heck, you need to make it so that you can access all 4 drive bays ridiculously easily by simply removing the side cover, and sliding drives in and out - no cables.

And for the kicker - your system also needs to be able to run OS X. Natively, with no hacks. The Mac can run Windows natively through Boot Camp, that's an advantage you can't ignore. After all of that is said and done, your system will cost *more* than Apple's, it will be slapped together rather than designed as a whole, and it still won't be able to run OS X (natively). Nice try though.

[Constable Odo @ Jan 10th 2008 7:24PM]

If you build it yourself? If you build it yourself! That'll go over well with most customers who want a working computer out of the box. The hell it will.

And just who do you take this home-built computer to for support when it starts crapping out? Take it to "Yourself Care." You could have at least compared it to some other high-end production computer. I'd certainly enjoy seeing a comparison of price and power. If the Mac Pro loses, it loses. More power to some HP or Dell or AlienWare if they'are way faster for similar prices. Just show me this so-called Mac Pro beater, Vista Beast.

[Grandalf @ Jan 10th 2008 7:31PM]

also wrong ram. It's 800mhz in the Mac Pro, not 667 like in your setup. Not to mention a total of 8 ram expansion slots.

[Constable Odo @ Jan 10th 2008 7:53PM]

This Mac Pro is cheaper, though I don't know if it has the same specs. This does seem like the newer model and it's already built. If it is the same as the home-build then the price is definitely competitive.

[Constable Odo @ Jan 10th 2008 7:55PM]

This is the cheapo Mac Pro: http://dealmac.com/Apple-Mac-Pro-Quad-Core-Xeon-Workstation-with-4-GB-RAM-more-for-2-339/207288.html

[Suhaib @ Jan 10th 2008 9:05PM]

It's the CPUs that are extremely expensive, even for Apple which is why they include a crappy HD2600 card. The thing is, where those CPU prices will fall in a while, this pro computer's price isn't going to mirror that. Also, the lower clocked Hapertowns go for substantially less, but performance does dip the same. You can configure a workstation beast with a quality MOBO, graphics card(even workstation class), and lower clocked Xeons for a grand less than this Mac although it won't run OSX without hacks apparently. "Natively" isn't the correct term, same hardware.

Whatever floats your boat, though. Highest of high-end will always be ridiculously priced.

[Nick @ Jan 10th 2008 9:13PM]

OMG. Jesse, Zak just DESTROYED YOU MAN! I have never seen such a well thought out, concise, orchestrated and deadly zinger as Zak layed on you. Jesus, I just laughed my ass off...AT YOU. Wow....Zak, nice dude, nice. It is quite obvious to any non biased, neutral observer that the Mac Pro is FTW.

[Carl Vitullo @ Jan 10th 2008 9:40PM]

that is possibly the longest string of "low" and "lowest" ranked posts i've ever seen. 5 in a row.

[purezerg @ Jan 11th 2008 2:11AM]

but can it overclock? yawnz. even topend 3.2Ghz is still slow.

[marc @ Jan 10th 2008 4:21PM]

Very nice upgrade, but the motherboard should have at least (2) PCI-E 2.0 slots like on the new enthusiast Intel boards. Video editors working with HD need multiple high bandwidth buses.

[CraigJ @ Jan 10th 2008 6:02PM]

I think all the slots are PCIe 2.0...

[roro2210 @ Jan 10th 2008 4:22PM]

I want one, its crazy if you get the 8 core 3ghz - thats 24ghz, 2 years ago we were happy wiv dual core. !!........no all i wait for is someone to write the legendry "another apple story comments' u seem to see on apple posts....pathetic.

[roro2210 @ Jan 10th 2008 4:23PM]

* now not no...still getting used to this keybaord

[I Love Art @ Jan 10th 2008 4:35PM]

Fanboy math! So, if Apple builds an 8 cylinder engine that gets 30 miles to the gallon, does that mean it actually gets 240mpg??? WOW!!!

[Bender Bending Rodriguez @ Jan 10th 2008 4:30PM]

Th clockspeed refers to the combined speed among all cores on the processor, not across each core.

Moving on...
The results from these tests are okay, but when you consider that Monday's cost of this machine was excessively more and they aren't even comparing the same speed processors it looks much better. Then factor in what SSE4 will bring tot eh table once Leopard is updated. That makes these new machines very futureproof.

[thethirdmoose @ Jan 10th 2008 5:21PM]

Wow... no it doesn't. You are all wrong.
roro: you can't add like that
rodriguez: when was the last time you saw a 300 MHz processor?

The chip does have 8 3 GHz processors. However, these don't add up to 24 GHz under normal circumstances because it is hard for programmers to split up the task between all the processors

you can use google for more info
i am too lazy to type more

[CraigJ @ Jan 10th 2008 5:32PM]

The CPU has *4* codes x 2 CPUs = 8 Cores. Core is not exactly equal to processor...

[Ruben @ Jan 10th 2008 6:28PM]

Forget the 8*3 = 24GHz because thats honestly the stupidest thing ive ever heard, the cores in the penryn are in fact full scale processors. Each one can be removed and executed on its own package, and work as a fully functioning processor, its just that pairs of them are grouped together. They are able to individually fetch code to execute independently, unlike the SPE's in a Cell, which needs a controller core to assure work is delivered to the units. Its still fast, but the units arnt full processors.

And this thing is overpriced. But if you really want a Mac, you have no other choice. Its nice that Macs are now directly comparable to regular PC's, and i still wonder where all that money goes (and dont tell me it goes to their top-notch industrial engineers because thats a load of horseshit. They are made as economically and profit-maximizing as all the others).

[roro2210 @ Jan 10th 2008 6:33PM]

My bad i read all about it now. i wasnt just saying i want it from a apple, dell or any other company. sorry my bad

[Zak @ Jan 10th 2008 7:22PM]

@ Ruben - First of all I just proved that Mac Pros are not overpriced at all. In fact if you try to build a PC with the same components, you will spend *more* money. Look up above in the comments. Second, Apple does use top notch industrial engineers. Have you even seen the inside of a Mac Pro? Despite that, Macs are still cheaper than comparable PCs.

[Ruben @ Jan 10th 2008 8:21PM]

@Zak: Key word: Maximizing Profits, so theres nothing in my comment that stated that it wasnt overpriced...by cutting manufacturing costs, it doesnt mean that the consumer gets to benefit.

I build my own PC's, so perhaps I, like others, are a little more savy when it comes to diagnosing an error. You cannot doubt that MacPros are alot more expensive than a personally built system, and the cost for a MacPro just seem to grow exponentially (without reason, it seems) as you purchase additions from the Apple store in comparison to a personally built PC of equivalent spec. And lets not forget the warranty. Alot of hardware makers put behind their product now, with the lowest being 1 year (processor), others being 3-5, and some being a lifetime.

But if you want OSX, you have no other choice.

[Zak @ Jan 11th 2008 2:55AM]

@ Ruben - "You cannot doubt that MacPros are alot more expensive than a personally built system"

Actually, yes I god damn can. And I did just that, in my comments above. Did you not read them? That whole thing where some guy in the same mindset as you actually listed all the parts it would take to put together a rough equivalent of the Mac Pro only to find that he only saved $100? You know, rather than going over the entire thing again, why don't you just scroll up. See my post up there, dated Jan 10th 2008 6:08PM? Read it, and read the comment before it too, to put it in context. The upshot is that even if you just order the parts to slap something together that's not even an exact equivalent of a Mac Pro, it *still* costs more money than what Apple is charging.

That is a deal and a half from Apple no matter how you slice it, since they're obviously eating the cost of the R&D to make it. You still think I'm wrong? Do it yourself. Find all the parts, price everything out, see how much it costs.

[Ruben @ Jan 11th 2008 9:57PM]

$ 849.00 - xeon e5462 X 2 = 1698



Tyan Intel (S5396WA2NRF) 5400 Xeon MB Price: $588.12
2 * GB Ethernet
64GB Ram Max
2PCIx 16
1PCIx 8
2PCIx 133/100
1PCI 32
2 FW Ports rear and front (header)
Optical In, Out
6 USB (2 internal headers for a total of 8)
6 SATA Raid 0,1,5,10
2 IDE channels
Standard audio connectors (HP jacks)


Qimonda DDR2-800 2 GB FB-DIMM Price: 230.00 * 8 = 1840.00 (gamePC.com)


Seagate 7200.11 1000GB * 4 Price 299.99*4 = 1199.96


EVGA Nvidia 8800GT Price 249.99


Pioneer DVD Burner (18x) Price: 39.99 X 2 = 79.98


Vista or XP Price: (250-400)
Linux: Free
Hackintosh Price: 129.99 so you dont feel bad about owning the license.


Lian Li PC-V2000 PLUS II Aluminum Case Price: 228.00
Can carry up to 12 internal hard drives and 7 CD/DVD/BD/HD-DVD drives


Antec Quattro 1000Watt Price 207.00

Apple keyboard Price: 49.00

Apple wireless mighty mouse: 69.00

Firewire PCI 3 port card Price: 39.99 (Amazon)


Price: 6648.05


Similarly configured Mac Pro Price: 8,669.00

Dont tell that a Mac isnt overpriced.

[John @ Jan 14th 2008 3:37PM]

Rueben,
Your complaint, a valid one, is with apple memory prices. I dare you to configure the mac pro with standard memory (2Gb) No one said you should buy your memory from Apple. If you want more memory buy it elseware.

[pilot101 @ Jan 10th 2008 4:29PM]

penryn picks up where amd phenom failed lol. Goddamn amd get ur act together and compete toe to toe like u used to with intel T_T

[Carl Vitullo @ Jan 10th 2008 9:51PM]

the only advantage AMD has right now it the fact that their processors are a HELL of a lot cheaper. i'm getting a 3ghz dual core AMD processor for around $150. retail (includes heat sink and all for you non-builders). that's about the same as a 2.5-7 ghz intel dual core, but it's still about $200-300 less. still, that's a good advantage to have.

[Joe @ Jan 10th 2008 4:47PM]

Ya know, the Mac Pro is actually better value per dollar than similar systems from Dell, HP, IBM, and most of the Linux vendors.

All those guys can slap together a Penryn box with the fancy fixins' you get in the Mac Pro, but they'll actually charge you more for it than Apple does......

This happy circumstance falls apart if you happen to buy your RAM upgrades from Apple - they do have a 100% markup on RAM.

[CraigJ @ Jan 10th 2008 5:43PM]

I went to Dell to prove you wrong, and guess what? The most similar configuration is Dell Precision Workstation T5400 (64-bit) as follows:
2 x 2.83 GHz Quad core Xeons
Vista Ultimate 64-bit
2GB DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz, ECC (2 DIMMS) (slower than Mac)
Dual 256MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, (the ATI card in the Mac is dual-dual link)
16x DVD +/- RW
1 Dell Ultrasharp 20" (comes with 17 which Apple doesn't have)
SoundBlaster x-fi with 5.1
Single 320GB SATA

For a grand total of $4,844 (!) vs. the Mac Pro @ $3,398

Someone want to check me on this? Dell seems really expensive...

[CraigJ @ Jan 10th 2008 5:44PM]

I went to Dell to prove you wrong, and guess what? The most similar configuration is Dell Precision Workstation T5400 (64-bit) as follows:
2 x 2.83 GHz Quad core Xeons
Vista Ultimate 64-bit
2GB DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 667MHz, ECC (2 DIMMS) (slower than Mac)
Dual 256MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, (the ATI card in the Mac is dual-dual link)
16x DVD +/- RW
1 Dell Ultrasharp 20" (comes with 17 which Apple doesn't have)
SoundBlaster x-fi with 5.1
Single 320GB SATA

For a grand total of $4,844 (!) vs. the Mac Pro @ $3,398

Someone want to check me on this? Dell seems really expensive...

[CraigJ @ Jan 10th 2008 5:45PM]

sorry about the double post. have no idea why...

[bcollinstex @ Jan 10th 2008 4:58PM]

Ok, I think it's a Penryn.

The HUGE red font and giant arrow helped.

[Michael LaFramboise @ Jan 10th 2008 5:55PM]

Really? I think they forgot to mention that its a Penryn :p

[Fant @ Jan 10th 2008 5:10PM]

Can these things run Vista or Windows Server?

[Bootes @ Jan 10th 2008 5:16PM]

Yes

[scott @ Jan 10th 2008 5:15PM]

yes.

[Dave @ Jan 10th 2008 5:14PM]

By the way, the machines announced on January 8th, 2008 use the "Harpertown" processors, not the Penryn...
cited here: http://www.apple.com/macpro/technology/processor.html

[Zak @ Jan 10th 2008 5:24PM]

Harpertown processors are based on the Penryn family of 45nm chips.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_2#Penryn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro#Specifications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xeon#5400-series_Penryn_based_Xeons

[Richard @ Jan 10th 2008 6:09PM]

People are picking the wrong target, we are talking about the MacPro, some of you are talking about Build it Yourself vs. PreBuilt.

PreBuilt Desktops are almost always cheaper, but this is a indictment against the “Pre Builts”, not just the MacPro. There is a small subset of users who knows as much or more about the OS and hardware than tech support; and if you are part of this cadre, then good for you. However, many people would rather pay someone to put the unit together and have a central location to call if they have issues.

[Geir E @ Jan 10th 2008 7:29PM]

I was a self builder in my early years, but to be honest - when you have done it once or twice for me the fun of it was gone. So I buy prebuilt now and still knows what my computers packs. Beside, computers like the Mac Pro is a bit more well thought of than the "whats hot" shopping list of a typical homebuilt box. And the best thing is that it is both gorgeous and runs os x, windows and linux.

[JohnnyGTO @ Jan 11th 2008 12:43AM]

Holy crap Batman now I have a solid solution for my clients needing a solid, powerful machine to run our XP based security software!!