According to reports, roost-ruling, green automaker
Toyota has confirmed plans to launch a
plug-in hybrid by 2010. Our man in Japan Katsuaki Watanabe (company president) dropped the bombshell at this year's Detroit Auto Show while detailing the automaker's plans for tackling environmental concerns. Apparently, the new lithium-ion-equipped vehicles will first be made available to Toyota's commercial customers -- such as government agencies. Watanabe gave no indication of when a general consumer rollout would occur. The vehicle, which is a modified version of the ultra-popular Prius, is capable of achieving fuel efficiency of 99.9 miles-per-gallon in EV mode, though it can only sustain pure battery power for about seven miles. The announcement will no doubt come as a total bummer to
GM, which has plans to sell its
own plug-in, the
Volt, around the same time -- though the Chevy vehicle is said to be able to make trips of up to 40 miles on a six-hour charge. It's about time we saw some healthy competition in the green-auto-game -- let's just hope consumers reap the benefits.
posted Jan 14th 2008 4:38AM
This is great. All I need now is to find a way to get an extension cord out of my apartment to hook it up.
GGGRRR!!!
Just because it runs on electricity doesn't mean it's "green". Where does that electricity come from?
Chances are, unless you're a nuclear happy Frenchman, it came from a horrible polluting fossil fuel buring power plant which loses most of it's elecricity due to inefficient transfer before it gets to your house.
/rant
Even after transfer energy loss, an electric car charging off of a coal power plant is still MUCH more energy-efficient and less polluting than a gasoline internal combustion engine.
It's also a lot easier, as technology moves forward, to retrofit a single coal power plant rather than hundreds of thousands of cars.
Besides, if cars like these catch on, you'll start seeing strong incentives by electric utilities to have their owners charge them at night -- when the nation's energy mix is much cleaner.
What is with you damn hippies always ranting about how un-green something is every time it's brought up? I knew before even clicking on the comments button that someone was going to say it within the first five replies, and I was right.
What if I happened to get my electricity from the solar panels situated on top of my house? You don't know. Personally, I don't give a damn about the environment or how much it damages the planet. Maybe I just don't want to pay for gas anymore. Maybe I would just like to be as independent as possible from everybody else.
At least technology is moving forward. People like you would rather we just wait and sit on our asses, hoping for a better solution will come along without any sort of transition whatsoever.
@Tom: I agree, everything's always un-green and blah. But if you personally don't give a damn about the environment then why would your reasoning be better than his? "What is it with all these people who care, I don't give a shit! Why doesn't everyone else not give a shit?" is kind of a stoopid thing to say, imo.
@Tom
You're right that we should accept intermediate steps. The trouble is that car manufacturers tend to like to sit on those "interim" steps for decades hoping people won't notice.
Also, with your lack of regard toward the environment, don't worry; the planet will kill us long before we get the chance to kill it. (And thanks for being part of the problem!)
Lol, do you really think that backwards hippies read Engadget?
I accept your points and realise I worded my comment badly, it is of course MORE efficient than a petrol burning car but I think that the way they portrayed as being completely green and that they don't hurt the environment at all.
And I also did add that there are exceptions, rather than listing all the "green" sources of energy I just said "nuclear happy Frenchman" but feel free to change that to "sun loving solar powered Californian" or "Windsurfing loving wind powered Spanish" etc.
Anyway, bring on the fuel cell.
Hippy,
Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars are a myth propagated by automakers that are not interested in making more efficient cars. No, they're not a myth in the sense that they don't exist. They're a myth in the sense that they'll never contribute to a less fossil-fuel-intensive system of powering vehicles.
Hydrogen doesn't come out of the ground (in quantities usable to power fleets of vehicles) and it doesn't grow on trees. Practically, it is not a power source, it is a means of storing power. Using grid power to make hydrogen to power a vehicle is less efficient, more expensive, heavier and inferior in just about every conceivable other way to using that power to charge a battery. Making hydrogen from natural gas is even worse from a global warming perspective.
The only advantage I can think of over a plug-in hybrid, is that you can fill a hydrogen tank faster than you can charge a battery, but with a hybrid with decent all-electric range, most trips will be all electric and the gasoline engine/generator will work for longer trips without a need to wait while the battery charges. Also, if electrically powered vehicles become mainstream, it would make sense to have battery swap stations, where leased batteries that you had discharged could be swapped for fully charged batteries. If properly automated, this would probably be faster than filling a gas tank, let alone a hydrogen tank.
It's actually quite common for someone to get their electricity from a green source (basically, anything but coal). In Canada, we get 2/3 of our power grid's electricity from hydroelectricity plants. My entire region gets their power from a plant along the Niagara river. Growing up here, I've noticed that hydroelectricity has become so common-place that people even refer to their power bills as "hydro bills". (It's actually quite annoying, because the term hydro bill would imply water bill, but anyways that's getting off-topic)
The point is most development when it comes to building new power plants is int he direction of renewable energy sources (or at least green sources). Hydro dams, wind farms, nuclear plants, etc. I don't think we'll see much construction of brand new coal plants. Chances are, energy going from the grid to EVs is going to be increasingly-green as time goes by.
Why not making solar-panels on the roof. So the car get charged during parking outside.
"Apparently, the new lithium-ion-equipped vehicles will first be made available to Toyota's commercial customers"
Aren't all customers commercial? Or are there those who get the car for free?
It'll need some technology similar to the MacBook's magnetic power plug in case shit happens.
Too funny!
Because of the air pollution became an important issue in all over the world and the prices of oil raising every year, that kind of cars will be bestsellers in a close future. But I think, they have to add a solar panels in addition to electricity cable.
Alya
SuTree.com
///...Prius, is capable of achieving fuel efficiency of 99.9 miles-per-gallon in EV mode, though it can only sustain pure battery power for about seven miles
Herein lies the problem - a significant problem for mass consumer adoption
I was all psyched up, until I read the part about the seven mile range.
when will that horrid form factor roll over and die? Surely one reason they aren't selling even more of the over-priced Prius model is the distinct lack of design flair. It is a bog ugly car and 'un-green' in its distinct lack of utility e.g. make it a proper station wagon.
ScooterDe: Nice rant.
1) Prius made the top 10 list for 2007 sales. What's the matter? You think it should be higher on the list?
2) Have you actually sat inside a Prius or folded its seats down and filled the hatchback up with stuff? You can fit twice as much stuff in the back of a prius than I ever managed with the GM cars I owned.
3) What use is a station wagon if I'm a family of 3 or 4? You tell me where I am going to get a station wagon that gets 40+ mpg (while doing 85 on the highway - ok, now I just opened myself up to a whole new set of flames...).
@Steve,
you could get a station wagon with that mileage if Toyota made it!
Sure a station wagon is not for everyone, but not is the standard Prius body. That's my point.
Being in the top ten is not a sign to stop innovating. Toyota knows that, and hopefully does not simply compare itself to craptastic cars. If you think the Prius is a nice car, try getting into European and (rival) Japanese vehicles more often.
Steve, how does anything you just said make it less ugly? I enjoy it's technology but I wouldn't buy it just because it's a hideous looking car. Frankly, I couldn't care if you think that makes me superficial--I happen to appreciate a nicely styled car and I doubt I'm alone here.
Or do you think Toyota wouldn't like to have my $23,000 (or whatever it costs)?
There's actually a pretty good story here already, about how A123, the company which makes batteries for the Volt, is actually producing an aftermarket battery pack that turns the Prius into a PHEV with a forty-mile range, achieving 150 mpg. The kicker is that Toyota won't actually endorse this product, to the point where installing it still voids the warranty, unfortunately.
I have 7040 watts of PV on my roof ... and a License Plate which reads:
"Plug In" .... so I am ready for this new arrival!
I will not be polluting at the power plant since I have over designed the PV system on my roof in anticipation of this arrival.
As to the cost of the PV system, after credits it was 1/2 the cost of a
kitchen renovation ... so I am living with the 1979 yellow counter tops
and builders cabinets.... but I am being green and not Green with envy!
I will be Green with Greenbacks in my pocket while others with spiffy
remodeled kitchens with granite counter tops are RED with their net worth ... killed by having to buy Energy at very high prices.
Well, I hate to bring this up, but negative reviews be damns. PV as it currently stands isn't really that much better. Think about the environmental harm that a current PV system causes in its manufacture. Heck, how many years worth of power that it produces does it actually take to produce, deliver, and install such a system. This is why the current systems aren't cheap, they take a lot energy to produce. There is no free ride. If you're using PV to charge your car, there is still damage to the environment being done-- batteries that produce toxic waste to produce and require energy to recycle, and the waste and energy required to produce the PV system.
This isn't to say that we shouldn't be working to improve economy or ignore solar, just please keep in mind that Solar as it currently sits isn't the end all solution either.
99.9mpg?? Psh...call me when it's 100mpg.
"capable of achieving fuel efficiency of 99.9 miles-per-gallon in EV mode, though it can only sustain pure battery power for about seven miles."
non sequitur
wow..a WHOLE 7 miles on pure-battery. Try again...maybe you can make it 8 miles next year!
30 miles on pure battery, or it isn't worth it.
Three questions
1. How much did it cost?
2. How many bad chemicals were used to make the PV components on the roof?
3. How much energy was used to make the PV components on the roof?
One day we might just catch up to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1