Just because it runs on electricity doesn't mean it's "green". Where does that electricity come from? Chances are, unless you're a nuclear happy Frenchman, it came from a horrible polluting fossil fuel buring power plant which loses most of it's elecricity due to inefficient transfer before it gets to your house.
Even after transfer energy loss, an electric car charging off of a coal power plant is still MUCH more energy-efficient and less polluting than a gasoline internal combustion engine.
It's also a lot easier, as technology moves forward, to retrofit a single coal power plant rather than hundreds of thousands of cars.
Besides, if cars like these catch on, you'll start seeing strong incentives by electric utilities to have their owners charge them at night -- when the nation's energy mix is much cleaner.
What is with you damn hippies always ranting about how un-green something is every time it's brought up? I knew before even clicking on the comments button that someone was going to say it within the first five replies, and I was right.
What if I happened to get my electricity from the solar panels situated on top of my house? You don't know. Personally, I don't give a damn about the environment or how much it damages the planet. Maybe I just don't want to pay for gas anymore. Maybe I would just like to be as independent as possible from everybody else.
At least technology is moving forward. People like you would rather we just wait and sit on our asses, hoping for a better solution will come along without any sort of transition whatsoever.
@Tom: I agree, everything's always un-green and blah. But if you personally don't give a damn about the environment then why would your reasoning be better than his? "What is it with all these people who care, I don't give a shit! Why doesn't everyone else not give a shit?" is kind of a stoopid thing to say, imo.
You're right that we should accept intermediate steps. The trouble is that car manufacturers tend to like to sit on those "interim" steps for decades hoping people won't notice.
Also, with your lack of regard toward the environment, don't worry; the planet will kill us long before we get the chance to kill it. (And thanks for being part of the problem!)
Lol, do you really think that backwards hippies read Engadget?
I accept your points and realise I worded my comment badly, it is of course MORE efficient than a petrol burning car but I think that the way they portrayed as being completely green and that they don't hurt the environment at all. And I also did add that there are exceptions, rather than listing all the "green" sources of energy I just said "nuclear happy Frenchman" but feel free to change that to "sun loving solar powered Californian" or "Windsurfing loving wind powered Spanish" etc.
Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars are a myth propagated by automakers that are not interested in making more efficient cars. No, they're not a myth in the sense that they don't exist. They're a myth in the sense that they'll never contribute to a less fossil-fuel-intensive system of powering vehicles.
Hydrogen doesn't come out of the ground (in quantities usable to power fleets of vehicles) and it doesn't grow on trees. Practically, it is not a power source, it is a means of storing power. Using grid power to make hydrogen to power a vehicle is less efficient, more expensive, heavier and inferior in just about every conceivable other way to using that power to charge a battery. Making hydrogen from natural gas is even worse from a global warming perspective.
The only advantage I can think of over a plug-in hybrid, is that you can fill a hydrogen tank faster than you can charge a battery, but with a hybrid with decent all-electric range, most trips will be all electric and the gasoline engine/generator will work for longer trips without a need to wait while the battery charges. Also, if electrically powered vehicles become mainstream, it would make sense to have battery swap stations, where leased batteries that you had discharged could be swapped for fully charged batteries. If properly automated, this would probably be faster than filling a gas tank, let alone a hydrogen tank.
It's actually quite common for someone to get their electricity from a green source (basically, anything but coal). In Canada, we get 2/3 of our power grid's electricity from hydroelectricity plants. My entire region gets their power from a plant along the Niagara river. Growing up here, I've noticed that hydroelectricity has become so common-place that people even refer to their power bills as "hydro bills". (It's actually quite annoying, because the term hydro bill would imply water bill, but anyways that's getting off-topic)
The point is most development when it comes to building new power plants is int he direction of renewable energy sources (or at least green sources). Hydro dams, wind farms, nuclear plants, etc. I don't think we'll see much construction of brand new coal plants. Chances are, energy going from the grid to EVs is going to be increasingly-green as time goes by.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Stoned Hippy @ Jan 14th 2008 5:09AM
GGGRRR!!!
Just because it runs on electricity doesn't mean it's "green". Where does that electricity come from?
Chances are, unless you're a nuclear happy Frenchman, it came from a horrible polluting fossil fuel buring power plant which loses most of it's elecricity due to inefficient transfer before it gets to your house.
/rant
Cactus @ Jan 14th 2008 5:20AM
Even after transfer energy loss, an electric car charging off of a coal power plant is still MUCH more energy-efficient and less polluting than a gasoline internal combustion engine.
It's also a lot easier, as technology moves forward, to retrofit a single coal power plant rather than hundreds of thousands of cars.
Besides, if cars like these catch on, you'll start seeing strong incentives by electric utilities to have their owners charge them at night -- when the nation's energy mix is much cleaner.
Tom @ Jan 14th 2008 5:28AM
What is with you damn hippies always ranting about how un-green something is every time it's brought up? I knew before even clicking on the comments button that someone was going to say it within the first five replies, and I was right.
What if I happened to get my electricity from the solar panels situated on top of my house? You don't know. Personally, I don't give a damn about the environment or how much it damages the planet. Maybe I just don't want to pay for gas anymore. Maybe I would just like to be as independent as possible from everybody else.
At least technology is moving forward. People like you would rather we just wait and sit on our asses, hoping for a better solution will come along without any sort of transition whatsoever.
Katharsis @ Jan 14th 2008 6:10AM
@Tom: I agree, everything's always un-green and blah. But if you personally don't give a damn about the environment then why would your reasoning be better than his? "What is it with all these people who care, I don't give a shit! Why doesn't everyone else not give a shit?" is kind of a stoopid thing to say, imo.
JustinM @ Jan 14th 2008 12:29PM
@Tom
You're right that we should accept intermediate steps. The trouble is that car manufacturers tend to like to sit on those "interim" steps for decades hoping people won't notice.
Also, with your lack of regard toward the environment, don't worry; the planet will kill us long before we get the chance to kill it. (And thanks for being part of the problem!)
Stoned Hippy @ Jan 14th 2008 1:05PM
Lol, do you really think that backwards hippies read Engadget?
I accept your points and realise I worded my comment badly, it is of course MORE efficient than a petrol burning car but I think that the way they portrayed as being completely green and that they don't hurt the environment at all.
And I also did add that there are exceptions, rather than listing all the "green" sources of energy I just said "nuclear happy Frenchman" but feel free to change that to "sun loving solar powered Californian" or "Windsurfing loving wind powered Spanish" etc.
Anyway, bring on the fuel cell.
Che @ Jan 14th 2008 6:37PM
Hippy,
Hydrogen fuel cell powered cars are a myth propagated by automakers that are not interested in making more efficient cars. No, they're not a myth in the sense that they don't exist. They're a myth in the sense that they'll never contribute to a less fossil-fuel-intensive system of powering vehicles.
Hydrogen doesn't come out of the ground (in quantities usable to power fleets of vehicles) and it doesn't grow on trees. Practically, it is not a power source, it is a means of storing power. Using grid power to make hydrogen to power a vehicle is less efficient, more expensive, heavier and inferior in just about every conceivable other way to using that power to charge a battery. Making hydrogen from natural gas is even worse from a global warming perspective.
The only advantage I can think of over a plug-in hybrid, is that you can fill a hydrogen tank faster than you can charge a battery, but with a hybrid with decent all-electric range, most trips will be all electric and the gasoline engine/generator will work for longer trips without a need to wait while the battery charges. Also, if electrically powered vehicles become mainstream, it would make sense to have battery swap stations, where leased batteries that you had discharged could be swapped for fully charged batteries. If properly automated, this would probably be faster than filling a gas tank, let alone a hydrogen tank.
Matt Welke @ Jan 15th 2008 12:21AM
It's actually quite common for someone to get their electricity from a green source (basically, anything but coal). In Canada, we get 2/3 of our power grid's electricity from hydroelectricity plants. My entire region gets their power from a plant along the Niagara river. Growing up here, I've noticed that hydroelectricity has become so common-place that people even refer to their power bills as "hydro bills". (It's actually quite annoying, because the term hydro bill would imply water bill, but anyways that's getting off-topic)
The point is most development when it comes to building new power plants is int he direction of renewable energy sources (or at least green sources). Hydro dams, wind farms, nuclear plants, etc. I don't think we'll see much construction of brand new coal plants. Chances are, energy going from the grid to EVs is going to be increasingly-green as time goes by.