Apple unveils the Apple TV, take 2

Apple just admitted that the first Apple TV didn't quite work out -- so it's back with a new model that can access iTunes directly, and streams movies from the new rental store in both DVD quality and HD with 5.1 surround. HD rentals cost a dollar more than SD content -- $3.99 and $4.99, and they'll sync back to your computer as well. The YouTube selection has also been expanded to 50M videos, there's now Flickr support in addition to .mac, and what's more, the entire UI has been revamped. The new single menu interface offers quick search of all available titles, and includes access to 600 TV shows that are available for $1.99, as well as your iTunes library and HD podcasts. Current owners aren't left out in the cold, though -- Apple's offering the new software as a free download. That's not all, either -- to lure you in to the frightening world of HD rentals, Apple's dropped the price to $229, down from $299.

We'll have a hands-on with the updated Apple TV in just a few right here -- stay tuned!

Gallery: Apple TV, take 2

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[Aaron @ Jan 15th 2008 12:54PM]

Gotta admit...this kinda sucks. Why couldn't they just software update the current AppleTV to be able to rent movies? How are people going to access there music and photo library?

[Iso @ Jan 15th 2008 1:39PM]

It is a software update, not a new model.

[Aaron @ Jan 15th 2008 2:01PM]

I guess I should have waited until the show was over to post my comment. BTW...It is new hardware, but they are offering a software update to previous models.

[Marshall @ Jan 15th 2008 12:59PM]

And that's the sound of VUDU stock taking a nosedive. Bye bye VUDU, we barely knew ye...

Marshall
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The Real HT Info Podcast

[RazorD @ Jan 15th 2008 12:59PM]

Not really all that impressive. The 360 has had HD movies for well over a year in america, AND in the UK for the last month. I don't get how apple can't sort out licensing in the UK when Microsoft can. You'd think Apple's existing deals and size in this market would make it easy.

[Brad @ Jan 15th 2008 2:47PM]

I try my best to not be an Apple (or, previously, gentoo) fanboy, but I don't hide my distaste for Microsoft. The less money I can give MS, the better. I actively avoid MS hardware (keyboards, mice, networking, etc) when shopping. I haven't purchased (nor pirated) an MS OS in years. And the (original) XBox and games I bought a few years back were second-hand. I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm going to buy a 360 and download movies on it. Not going to happen.

If anyone else out there doesn't like MS' practices, they should do the same.

[RazorD @ Jan 15th 2008 3:14PM]

I'm hardly a Microsoft fanboy, if any other company had a similar product in the UK, i would of used their name. I'm writing as a pissed of brit who is constantly irritated by these kind of services launching in the UK, and while this usually doesn't bother me - obviously licensing issues are a big one. My argument still stands. Its not like Apple are breaking new ground here, drawing up brand new contracts which have never been seen before.

I just want to be able to rent movies on iTunes, even if that is the same selection as what Microsoft offer on Marketplace in the UK.

I'm writing this on a mac now.

[RazorD @ Jan 15th 2008 3:14PM]

I'm hardly a Microsoft fanboy, if any other company had a similar product in the UK, i would of used their name. I'm writing as a pissed of brit who is constantly irritated by these kind of services launching in the UK, and while this usually doesn't bother me - obviously licensing issues are a big one. My argument still stands. Its not like Apple are breaking new ground here, drawing up brand new contracts which have never been seen before.

I just want to be able to rent movies on iTunes, even if that is the same selection as what Microsoft offer on Marketplace in the UK.

I'm writing this on a mac now.

[suburb @ Jan 16th 2008 1:51AM]

Speaking of the 360, I don't understand why iTunes has to be running on the computer its streaming to AppleTV from...I can stream to my XBox 360 sans iTunes being up and running using Connect 360. I can't say the same for my AppleTV. Just a minor annoyance, but a seemingly no brainer fix nonetheless.

Now if they'd only open up that damned USB port so I can attach a TB drive, then I wouldn't need to worry about streaming at all...

[pico @ Jan 16th 2008 11:54AM]

Yeah, as an XBox 360 owner, the HD movies are great. You can almost hear them over the noise of the 360's fans. Movies like Airplane are the best, 'cause the noise of that jet engine really adds something to the movie.

Looking forward to finally renting HD on my nice, quiet ATV.

[Darnell @ Jan 15th 2008 1:41PM]

I'm with you. This actually makes for a compelling reason to buy this thing.

[Eugenia Loli-Queru @ Jan 15th 2008 1:50PM]

This is just silly. AppleTV did not just need the movie rentals, it needed the following too:
* 1080/30p support, or AT LEAST, 720/30p. I mean, my camera shoots in 1080/60i, so at least I should be able to watch my stuff in 720/30p instead of the maximum 720/24p.
* It needs DivX/XViD support.
* It needs WMV support -- no matter if it comes from MS or not.
* It needs DV .avi, HDV .m2t and AVCHD .m2ts/.mts support so people can play back their own stuff.

Until all that is satisfied, AppleTV is a joke to me, as a camera owner and serious videographer, and the PS3 is a MUCH BETTER device for that job.

[Brian @ Jan 15th 2008 1:57PM]

I'm with you, at least give me 1080i. Unfortunately with the current AppleTV hardware, I don't think there is even the possibility of a future software/firmware upgrade to 1080i.

[shawn @ Jan 15th 2008 2:14PM]

iTunes on a desktop/laptop supports DivX handily. It also adds a menu option in FrontRow just for any content on your Mac that uses it. I haven't experimented with XviD yet. Since I'm mostly Linux and Linux does XviD well, I haven't had a need to.

Why WMV? I can view that on my Linux box using hacks, but I find it pointless. My YouTube-ready camera supports H.264 which Apple supports as well.

What I *would* like to see is a slight redesign to the menu system of FrontRow that de-emphasizes the iTunes store and focuses first on the user's existing content. I'm getting tired of an unneeded menu layer I must navigate to then over the Store item, Preview item, and finally to my stored movies menu. I should be able to go straight to my existing content without all that hopping around. It amounts to a required "opt out" of buying content every time I want to watch something already stored locally. (The HTPC Mini may get wiped and resurrected as an Ubuntu/MythTV box in the future as a result of this "profit first, customer second" design.)

[JohnTitor @ Jan 15th 2008 3:49PM]

the ArchosTV+ does all that except the 1080i

[BowserUSC @ Feb 13th 2008 2:56AM]

Apple has been using this profit first, consumer second business model for quite some time now. I use macs all the time but it really pisses me off.

[BowserUSC @ Feb 13th 2008 2:57AM]

that comment was directed towards shawn.

[Ed Danger @ Jan 15th 2008 1:51PM]

Finally we can talk about something! http://appletvforum.com/ I'm looking forward to these new features, but since I'm in Canada I'm going to have to wait! ARGH!

[chris @ Jan 15th 2008 1:54PM]

What is the point of purchasing this device if you own a cable box or a satellite dish? You can already get standard definition downloads of new movies for around 4 bucks and no download time. Plus, they will probably have the ability in the near future to sell HD movies through cable. If this is not convincing enough, you can get netflix and order SD or HD movies to their door. I just don't see how apple is going to penetrate this market at this price point!? Hell, if TIVO can't do it, why would MAC be any different.

[John @ Jan 15th 2008 2:15PM]

I dunno, it kind of appeals to me, having digital cable with (ridiculous) pay-per-view rates and having about $50 in iTunes gift cards left over from Christmas. Also, I'm thinking college students without cable boxes will appreciate this, especially if Apple gets on top of things and releases new movies as they come out.

[Brad @ Jan 15th 2008 3:01PM]

Do you have any idea how much I despise my cable company? So much that I started a petition to end their monopoly in our city. I got 430 actual (ie: non-online) signatures in 3.5 hours. I hate them so much that later today, once my DSL is installed, I'm dropping them completely. My roommates and I are going sans satellite or cable simply on principle. The new AppleTV announcement just makes me feel that much better about the decision.

PS: Pardon me... the problem isn't my hate for Charter. The problem is that Charter hates me. And you, too.

[Jim @ Jan 16th 2008 1:39PM]

Well, for starters, you can begin to watch the movie at night, get tired, go to bed, grab your video iPod in the morning on your way to the train, and watch the rest of the movie on your morning commute right where you left off the night before.

Let's see Comcast do that.

[shawn @ Jan 15th 2008 1:56PM]

I checked my Netflix account to see what I use each month and it seems to average around 8 discs a month. I pay $24/mo for my level of service. That comes to $3 per disc. (Note that TV on disc is usually 2-4 episodes per disc. Lost, Rome, Space 1999, etc)

Apple is offering a two-tier pricing per disc for movies at $3 and $4 each. Apparently, this rental does *not* include television, which you can purchase per episode at $2. A 2 episode rental disc would cost $4 at that rate, a 3 episode would cost $6. etc.

Apple video rentals are more expensive. "Prison Break" has 22 episodes in Season 1 on 6 discs which would cost $44 on Apple and $18 on Netflix. I'd probably pay close to $40/mo for the same amount of movies and tv through Apple as I do Netflix for $24/mo.

The added feature of being able to move your rentals to any other Apple device for watching does me no good since everything else I use is Linux-based. (Netflix may yet support Linux but Apple clearly will not.)

Apple would need to offer some sort of bulk plan where you pay a fixed price per month for a fixed amount of download that brings the average per disc rental price to $3. They also need to beef up their library to rival Netflix's, including the Indy houses and fringe interests like G&L movies.

I give them kudos, though, for being brave enough to unbundle AppleTV from an iTunes-encumbered PC somewhere in the house. A tiny gap in their walled garden, but appreciated just the same.

[Sean @ Jan 15th 2008 1:59PM]

As a stand-alone device this is not terribly impressive. But you have to consider that this device is the front-end to the largest media portal on the planet.
The 1G AppleTV did not have the features it needed to make it (no HD for example). This one barely does but as it is, it is one of the first viable (and much less expensive) alternatives to a HTPC (at least in the role of a movie server).

[lucky @ Jan 15th 2008 1:59PM]

I have both the apple TV and the PS3. I am also a photographer. I use both and I look forward to this update. For $229, I'll be picking up a second apple TV as well.

[adam @ Jan 15th 2008 2:02PM]

@Aaron -- It is a software update, and not new hardware.

[Sean @ Jan 15th 2008 5:22PM]

Uh, there IS a software update for older AppleTVs, but this is a completely new device. Unless of course, the HDMI port was hiding under a sticker on the old AppleTV.

[suburb @ Jan 16th 2008 1:51AM]

Um, there was no sticker hiding the HDMI port on the AppleTV sitting in my living room for several months now. Not a hardware update at all, just UI and features.

[Sean @ Jan 16th 2008 2:06PM]

OK, I may have made a mistake here. I could have sworn the original AppleTV did not have HDMI (the main reasom I did not buy it at the time).
And with quotes like this:
"Apple just admitted that the first Apple TV didn't quite work out -- so it's back with a new model.."
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/15/apple-unveils-the-apple-tv-take-2/
and I swear I read a statement by Steve Jobs that said something like 'it is all new in there' (though I can't find it).

So, my bad. This is disappointing as a software-only update.

[Ryan J. @ Jan 15th 2008 2:12PM]

SNORE...

Microsoft had this over a year ago, Blockbuster / Netflix is a MUCH better deal (with the amount of movies I watch)... this will advance the SD / HD download market, but is yet to be the "it" device.

[jntaylor @ Jan 15th 2008 2:20PM]

Here is a HUGH question. Will the software convert the AAC 5.1 to Dolby 5.1 out the HDMI and/or optical output? If not, then no one will be able to use their 5.1 surround receivers to get true 5.1 surround sound.

[Bill @ Jan 15th 2008 5:43PM]

You don't have an Apple iReceiver?!

[jake18oly @ Jan 15th 2008 2:21PM]

So what is the difference between this and an Xbox 360? More Studio support or what?

[Wes @ Jan 15th 2008 2:34PM]

iTunes, and the lack of ability to play games...

[Zack Mahdavi @ Jan 15th 2008 3:31PM]

Yeah, support from all the studios. Microsoft only has a couple studios on board, I believe.

[Rob Fleming @ Jan 15th 2008 2:33PM]

this announcement is wrong, far as i can tell. Its just new firmware. Its not a new product.

[Tiffany @ Jan 15th 2008 2:40PM]

Add a qam\cablecard tuner to that thing and I might spring for one.

[EatingPie @ Jan 15th 2008 2:43PM]

Big question: 720p only? Does the AppleTV output 1080i/p? Do the videos come in 1080i/p, or are they 720p only?

-Pie

[shawn @ Jan 15th 2008 2:50PM]

According the the announcement, you can rent "SD" or "HD" movies. The HD movies are $1 more expensive than the SD, so $4 or $5 each movie.

[EatingPie @ Jan 15th 2008 2:55PM]

Doesn't actually answer my question. HD is defined as 720p, 1080i and 1080p. It could be any of these resolutions. My understanding of AppleTV is that it was limited to 720p only for output, but that may not be correct.

-Pie

[Mark P @ Jan 15th 2008 2:57PM]

I have an Apple TV and tried watching HD clips from quicktime.com on it; 720 is so so, but 1080 is impossible o watch! So I do expect a hardware update next to a software update.

[treacherous @ Jan 15th 2008 3:04PM]

I wish Apple would just go ahead and make a real STB that I could use with DISH/DirecTV and/or cable...

[Greg @ Jan 15th 2008 3:20PM]

Nice!
No need for disks at all. =D

[Psycho @ Jan 15th 2008 3:25PM]

Has anybody already updated their appleTV?

[Jackie @ Jan 15th 2008 3:26PM]

Does it play video playlists? The current AppleTV does not.

Yes, read that again. You cannot put music videos in a playlist. This makes it inferior to a video iPod, which can.

Please, oh pretty please, can I just play a music video playlist?

[hyloka @ Jan 15th 2008 3:38PM]

Until you buy at least 229 movies, each movie you download is going to be $1 more than something you could get through your cable set top box (which you probably got for free), or your Xbox 360 (which wasn't free, but has other uses). The AppleTV won't be a compelling purchase until it does something more than just cost more. When Apple makes the AppleTV into a combination AppleTV/Wii, then they'll have something. Until then, try convincing your grandmother to spend $229 to rent a $5 movie.

[Rob @ Jan 15th 2008 4:13PM]

Handbrake + XBMC = Multimedia Nirvana

[Deejay @ Jan 15th 2008 6:10PM]

Yep XBMC is still way better than Apple TV or anything else out on the market. Can't wait till they release the Linux port.

[BLKMGK @ Jan 16th 2008 9:11PM]

Linux XBMC is WELL on the way towards release. It is currently close to feature complete and many of us have setup boxes just to run it. The SVN code is pretty stable, stop waiting and start running it IMO.

Go check it out -> http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=52

Oh, there's an OSX port coming along too - http:\\www.OSXBMC.com

[Tom the Village Idiot @ Jan 15th 2008 4:37PM]

What about all of us thtat just bought a $399 Apple TV for Christmas. Do we get a $70 rebate or whatever the difference is with the new pricing for the 160GB model?