iPhone putting on a Lotus Notes suit?

If you're looking to gain respect for your gear as a serious business-class tool, there's no better way than to infiltrate those Big Four accounting firms still using Lotus Notes. According to a piece carried by the Associated Press, Lotus Notes eMail is coming to Apple's iPhone and iPod touch. We kid you not. The announcement is expected as early as Sunday the 20th, the day IBM's annual Lotusphere conference kicks off in Orlando. The software is free for those with existing licenses which means IT is going to have a hell of a time keeping it out of users' hands. If true, the application would presumably be the first official, third-party app developed with Apple's new iPhone SDK. IBM is also expected to announce their free Lotus Symphony flavor of OpenOffice for the Mac at the same time. An IBM spokesman seemingly confirmed the announcements by saying that Apple and IBM have, "a lot in common. We're going to cross-pollinate." Let's just hope they manage to untangle that jumbled Notes UI for finger-friendly navigation during the mating ritual, eh?

[Via MacRumors]

[Hannibal_Lecteur @ Jan 17th 2008 7:38AM]

What the hell is that XP screen capture ?

[Edward @ Jan 17th 2008 11:39AM]

looks like a nice photochop job. I suspect the real UI will look closer to Google's Grand Prix project on iPhone.

[Ian Armstrong @ Jan 17th 2008 3:12PM]

The screen cap is wishful thinking - we'd all love to see an iPhone that connects to Exchange, if only to stop the whining in IT when we tell a fanboy where to stick his "Fun phone" (QFT - Steve Jobs).

As for the other bits...
"If true, the application would presumably be the first official, third-party app developed with Apple's new iPhone SDK. "

http://www.apple.com/webapps/

Actually, I think there may be a few preceeding it. Now if someone would PLEASE build me an ActiveSync connector?

Thanks

[Seth @ Jan 18th 2008 5:39PM]

Its called Outlook Web Access... Has nothing to do with XP. They are probably running OWA inside safari (if that is possible).

[Dorf @ Jan 17th 2008 7:39AM]

*Phew* Thank Jebus we just moved away from Notes!

[Harkonian @ Jan 17th 2008 12:47PM]

I am a software architect for IBM and I am already using Lotus Notes on my iPhone. It's available to anyone who wants it. Here's what you do:

1. Sign up for an email account on gmail.

2. Go into Lotus Notes and create a new rule to forward all email to your new gmail account.

3. Go into your gmail account and configure the "reply to" to be your lotus notes email account (note, gmail will send a confirmation email to your lotus notes account which you have to confirm)

4. Set up the new gmail account on your iphone.

5. Profit

[arteekay @ Jan 17th 2008 3:10PM]

Please god tell me you were joking about being an IBM software engineer... although it does explain the "why" of Lotus Chokes.

Just wait until your IT department finds out your bypassing security for convenience, you'll soon have plenty of time to play with your iphone while looking for a new job.

[David @ Jan 17th 2008 7:54AM]

My company still uses Lotus Notes. However, unless there's also a version of Lotus Mobile Connect included, the iPhone will have no way to VPN across the firewall for access. I'm sure this is the same for everyone.

[errrduh.... @ Jan 17th 2008 7:55AM]

Dammit, dammit, dammit! I wanted an iPhone so bad but ended up getting a Blackberry Curve on T-Mobile last week because it supports my companies Notes over BES. Oh well.

I just wonder what our Notes team would have to do on the back end to support this. How would this thing connect to our Notes servers without VPN?

[Edward @ Jan 17th 2008 11:30AM]

Some companies have their webmail deployed in the DMZ so that home-based users can connect without a VPN client.

[nathan @ Jan 17th 2008 11:18PM]

You are probably still within a 14-day period where you can return your phone. I'd give that a try and see what happens in February. Worst is you just buy it again in February (unless you got a deal that will not be there).

[Steve Jobs @ Jan 17th 2008 7:57AM]

Lotus Notes sucks, thats really all their is to it.

[Break point @ Jan 17th 2008 10:21AM]

So does your spelling.

[Joseph @ Jan 17th 2008 6:07PM]

He typed it on this iPhone.

[sajawebb @ Jan 21st 2008 11:06AM]

Lotus is so 90's...yuck!

[EMoShunz @ Jan 17th 2008 8:04AM]

nothin' better than a few extra fingers while mating...
seriously though, this is a good start. get exchange/push and availability in canada and i'd be on board, even without an sd card slot

[Kris @ Jan 17th 2008 8:04AM]

My last company switched to the latest version of Lotus Notes. It was horrible. It's basically a large web application hosted inside of a browser control. It's slow and down right ugly. Outlook has more features and is more user friendly.

[Denis Robert @ Jan 17th 2008 8:15AM]

That's actually incorrect; you're using the iNotes client, which is only one of the clients available for Notes (there's also the old client, available up to v7, and the new client based on Eclipse RCP from v8 on for Windows, v7 for Linux).

Outlook is, in my view, far worse than Notes (even though I've never been a big fan of Notes). At least Notes is pretty secure...

[Eric B. @ Jan 17th 2008 8:26AM]

For straight email, Outlook and Exchange is prettier. For actual business use with security and databases Notes is the only way to go. Show me a way to make Outlook/Exchange do half that stuff you can do in a NotesDB and I'll be a convert.

I love how people think running a large business with Exchange, a public folder here or there, and a file server is a reasonable way to keep track of things.

[jakem @ Jan 17th 2008 8:29AM]

Oh come on. Lotus Notes has to be one of the worst pieces of software ever written. Notes is a dinosaur and it deserves to be left to die. Outlook by comparison is extremely easy to use, scalable and HTTP via RPC access is a killer feature if you're using Exchange.

[Fernando @ Jan 17th 2008 8:35AM]

I would have to agree with Jakem. Notes is a pretty bad app, as far as aesthetics goes and user friendliness. It does get the job done though, it is secure and reliable. I just wish they would jump into at least the 90's as far as user friendliness and usability.

[jalapeno @ Jan 17th 2008 9:57AM]

Here we go again, why is it that whenever Slashdot or Engadget does an article about Notes the haters come out in full force.

I wholeheartedly agree with Andrew Pollack and Jeff, Notes has a lot more going for it than just the mail, and the newest release it very good. Everyone loves to bash Notes because of it's historically square client base, but give it a chance and take a look at the latest version, you will be pleasantly surprised.

Also, the simple fact that it is so easy to develop applications for Notes exposes a lot of users to poorly developed Notes apps done by inexperienced developers. It's hard to get people to separate the actual product from the applications done badly.

Lotus Notes' security and mobility are unmatched by anything else in the market and that is the reason so many large companies use it, but try telling that to the haters!

[JefTek @ Jan 17th 2008 8:42AM]

Notes is a Proprietary application platform that just happens to have a Mail/Calendaring module.

You can't compare Domino Applications, which are stuck in a silo'd hell with thinly veiled interopable abilities. The thing is a pig, and just try and integrate it in a large environment. Even IBM has problems integrating their own platforms with Notes which is why it's the red headed stepchild of their applications.

Notes had it's chance, but it really hasn't matured outside of it's island to fit into the current world. It is said to be the platform Admins love, and end users hate for a reason.

MS Exchange is a Collaboration platform, not something trying to be everything. It is like comparing apples to oranges.

Also, this iPhone mentions mail, but what about calendaring integration?

Oh and Notes 8 was such a let down. I had to uninstall the thing and go back to Notes 7 because it crashed all the time :(

I just want my Outlook back :)

[Andrew Pollack @ Jan 17th 2008 9:48AM]

Exchange is a collaboration platform? ROTFLMAO. Aside from being prone to crashes that cause the entire system to be unavailable for hours on end, its not much more than a shared file tool when it comes to collaboration. Sharepoint? bah! They had to just TAKE BACK one version of it that was so unusable, they didn't CHARGE people to go from it to the next one. NOTHING is backward compatible, it ONLY runs on Windows (show me a good Linux outlook collaboration client, please, for integration with sharepoint) and the licensing model is hell.

To make matters worse, if you build an outlook/sharepoint/activedirectory/office/sql server environment, Microsoft OWNS your I.T. budget. If you want to upgrade ANY of those pieces you must upgrade ALL of them.

I know one company who went with Exchange over Notes but was worried that MS would make them buy new server operating systems so they got a promise that it would not require a new OS version to upgrade. Technically, that was sort of true. It turned out that it DID require a 64 bit operating system to upgrade though, so they were forced to buy new HARDWARE and thus a NEW COPY OF THE SAME OPERATING SYSTEM.

I'm not entirely an IBM Fanboy here. I hate Websphere and Portal -- pretty much anything J2EE related sets my teeth on edge as usually wasteful of budget and processing power -- My OS preference is Linux for servers and XP for desktop (I know, I'm the only one left who doesn't like Mac OSX -- though now with Parallels and the iPhone which I hate myself for having to admit is light years ahead of every other phone I've tested) I may have to join the borg nation of macboys).

I write code for Asterisk on Linux, I write client side software in vs.NET that integrates with Domino using Web Services (that makes a REALLY compelling design environment, by the way). I write in Java, C, C++, C#, VB, VB.net, bash shell scripting (if you don't think that's a language, go read a book), and if forced a little bit of perl.

It is sufficient then, to say I know more than just Domino and Notes. Yet I pick Domino as a platform for what it does, because I can build things that work, are secure, are stable, and are flexible in about 1/10th the time and budget as I can in any other platform.

I also prefer Domino because it is OPEN to STANDARDS INTEGRATION. I'm not talking about Microsoft's style of open-ness (embrace and extend to co-opt the marketplace), I'm talking about fully support standards. To wit: LDAP, IMAP, POP2, POP3, SMTP, SNMP, XML, HTTP, SSL, NNTP, Java (sort of a standard), Javascript (also sort of a standard), Web Services (SOAP/XML+HTTP+WSDL), MIME, SMIME, x.509, vcards, COM (a semi-standard of Microsoft's), Active-X (a semi-standard of Microsoft's), CORBA, CSS, and probably a dozen others I'm forgetting for now.

[kwanbis @ Feb 15th 2008 9:16PM]

JefTeck, where do you get all that from

I have been programming lotus notes for 7 years. I know it inside out.

I have find out that many companies just deploy LN and only use the Mail/Calendar.

I have used notes since 4.5, and i never understood people complaining about the interface, as it is the same as the outlook client. In fact, more or less all mail apps look the same.

Lotus Notes is the first and best collaboration platform. You can do ANY type of application with it.

What you can do in notes takes 10 times or more in other platforms.

Management is fast and easy.

And having the "data" folder separate from the "application" folder, is a bliss.

When we have to move our notes deploy from Windows 2003 server to Linux, we just copied the data folder over the new install, and that was it.

Lets try it with exchange.

Exchange is a poor excuse of a bug riden, virus proone mail application.

[Nate @ Jan 17th 2008 1:35PM]

I use the Lotus System at work, and the single largest frustration I have with the system is the fact that I have to enter all my calendar entries twice. Once into Lotus, and once into my iPhone. Calendar integration would be more helpful to me than e-mail. The ToDo functions would also be nice.

[andrea @ Jan 17th 2008 8:42AM]

No, please. Not Notes!!! Is the worse ever sold software (and I'm still wondering why so many public administrations keep using it!).

I'm not going to waste 20 bucks for the update, but I could do, if IBM promise me to not release an iPhone/IPT version of Notes! :D

[DigitalSleep @ Jan 17th 2008 8:45AM]

Lotus Notes is way more then just an email client, and outlook is not a better client, i give you at times it may look better, but the two are just two different products, and for of you people who say notes sucks you don't know what pain is, till your exchange sever starts acting up, Notes opens up a whole world of possibilities when it comes the delivery of rich business content over the web, and through the notes clients, It Never ceases to amazing me when people complain about Lotus Notes without knowing what it is capable of.

[hspirate @ Jan 17th 2008 8:47AM]

Despite the fact my company still uses notes (ver 6.5) and it sucks, this is good news. Hopefully our IT staff will support this, but I doubt it.

[Southern @ Jan 17th 2008 12:03PM]

Your consulting employer won't abandon Notes ;)

[Ekivemark @ Jan 21st 2008 11:34AM]

I'm with you! Lotus Notes 6.5 stuck behind citrix, or a barely usable web client.

[don @ Jan 17th 2008 8:47AM]

The database structure of notes and how you can interlink mail, calendars, teams and things like that is quite nifty and I always liked it for that reason.

Trouble is the bloody interface .... never got out of the darkages, always insisted on using proprietry styles and templates and the most annoying thing was keyboard shortcuts.

F5 screen locks Notes. ... WTF ? .... So there I am, looking at a filtered view, press F5 like you would in any normal window to refresh it .... locked out, need to enter password again. I know that stuff like that has been brought to the attention of the designers / developers for years pleading for convergence towards the general accepted UI workings of the modern age ... and they blankly ignore it year in year out.

[Ben @ Jan 17th 2008 9:40AM]

Notes/CC mail was actually around before windows and had the F5 set as lock prior to the release of windows and they just haven't changed it.

[Charles Robinson @ Jan 17th 2008 11:51AM]

"F5 = Refresh" is such a misconcepction. Go ahead, open Word and press F5. What do you get? Oh, Find and Replace. Now try it in Excel. Oh, it's Goto. The truth is it's different in every Microsoft application. The only two where it is the same are Internet Explorer and Windows Explorer. F5 is absolutely, positively **NOT** a standard for refresh in Microsoft applications. Do some research.

[Luke @ Jan 17th 2008 8:49AM]

Notes is best.
Outlook? Don't run a business on software you can get at Walmart.

[AndrewNeo @ Jan 17th 2008 6:25PM]

So they're selling Windows Server and Exchange Server at Walmart now?

[Peppaz @ Jan 17th 2008 9:05AM]

WOW, next time you use Photoshop, use you're own reflection at least. It's not hard.

[Andrew Pollack @ Jan 17th 2008 9:14AM]

The stupidity I hear repeated about Notes is almost funny. Here are some things you probably DON'T know:

1. Notes is on version 8. Comparing it with the last one you used in 2004 is just plain stupid.

2. Notes is now built to run within Eclipse, opening the full UI capabilities of that tool to Notes developers. It is now WAY more graphically capable than Exchange/outlook etc.

3. Notes -- the full client -- fully supports LINUX desktops and MAC desktops (though Mac support is still playing catchup, it should achieve full parity this year).

4. Domino -- the server for Notes -- is fully supported on Linux, AIX, Win2k3, and OS/400 (iSeries).

5. Programability wise, you can write notes & domino application using its proprietary languages as always - but also in Java, C, & C++. You can hook its functionality from vs.NET, COM, ODBC, and Web Services, and you can import and export both data and design elements in xml (the dtd is called DXL).

I know, personally, a financial firm of 15000 people where they use Notes with hundreds of applications, and require only a dozen people to support, manage, and design apps for that environment. They need over 300 support people to managed their locked down xp desktop environment with office.

Bashing a product based on what it was like 10 years ago as a way to look like you know what you're doing, just makes you look like your I.T. experience is closer to the level of "brother-in-law who knows computers" or at best "Geek Squad" head goon or entry level support tech a podunk products corporation where all the decisions are made so far above your head you don't even get to hear the reasons.

"Still Using Notes" my butt. You're talking about a product still growing is market, and holding more than 50% of the world wide market (and just under 50% of the U.S. market) for Enterprise (not home geek) messaging.

[JefTek @ Jan 17th 2008 9:22AM]

Want to stop Notes dead in it's tracks? Try to integrate it into Directory services with business partners :) Directory Assistance is a joke, and even IBM has admitted it will not work until maybe "Domino Next" (notes 10?). Ntoes is great for centralized controlled environments, but horrible in any distributed envirionment.

Their solution? Sync passwords via client side tools....That's craptastic.

So will the Notes client have remote wipe of the devices? How are they going to secure it if the iPhone is stolen? Does the iPhone even have a password?

[Andrew Pollack @ Jan 17th 2008 9:29AM]

@JefTek -

I'd had clients using Domino servers that authenticate and control access via users and groups entirely stored in Active Directory through the built in LDAP support in Lotus Notes & Domino for more than 4 years.

What is coming in the next major release (which will be called 8.5 or 9.0 in all liklihood) is clearly better. Of course, that's what SHOULD happen. When something goes through a major release cycle (which for Domino and Notes is about 18 months) it should GET BETTER. Microsoft could learn from that, yes?

The design environment is undergoing radical overhaul in the current cycle -- to be live-demoed in 3 days by the way. The Notes Domino revision cycle usually alternates, with every other year focused on major updates to either the client side or the server side. That works fine in the Domino/Notes world, since the product is 100% backward compatible all the way to versions from 1991. You can upgrade some clients but not all to use a new feature. You can upgrade a server and not clients or a client and not server. It doesn't matter. Use what makes sense.

[jalapeno @ Jan 17th 2008 10:09AM]

Andrew your comments on Notes are refreshing to see, Notes has such a long history it's hard for people to believe that such an "old" product has done an excellent job of keeping up with the times, and still innovate.

[.jasper @ Jan 17th 2008 9:18AM]

shouldn't that read notes suite?

[Jeff @ Jan 17th 2008 9:37AM]

Outstanding comments, it goes to show how many of you are just plain ignorant to what Lotus Notes is, what it does and how it dominates the collaboration industry. Don't spew misinformation about Notes, we are talking about Notes 8.x not Notes 6 or 7, it's a completely different ball game.

"Big four accounting firms" serious? Are you really that stupid? Man, whoever wrote this article is smoking from the wrong pipe. Do some research on where Notes is being used.

As to Notes on the iPhone. Yes, its coming, it will be announced and officially shown soon. Symphony and Notes client are coming to the mac as well.

To the comments regarding ability to wipe the device remotely, etc, please, step away from the ledge. Its a software package, not a device management solution. If you install it, you can't magically go to your Domino server and pull your mail from work. You can't just somehow leap through the magical Internet and land on your corporate server. C'mon, are you for real?

Notes 8 which features the rich client platform was released on Linux and Windows at the same time. Mac support is with Notes 8.01. Notes 8 brings Activities, Sametime, RSS feeds, and a flexible platform to integrate your eclipse framework apps into it. It's a lot more than email.

[B @ Jan 17th 2008 9:49AM]

Coke uses it
The UN uses it
The Bank of NY uses it
Kroger uses it
Raytheon uses it
Gap uses it
GM uses it
State Farm uses it
Protective Life Insurance uses it
Epson uses it

just to name a few...

[Jeff @ Jan 17th 2008 9:52AM]

@B - right on and a lot more that i'm sure you've worked on too ;-)

[Scott @ Jan 17th 2008 10:19AM]

ExxonMobil uses it.

It's interface is historically ugly and has a learning curve, but it really does make Outlook/Exchange look like a play thing when it comes to enterprise use. For Billy Bob's Shipping Supply Co, you wouldn't see the benefits.

[roach @ Jan 17th 2008 4:23PM]

PWC uses it....

[texasbrian @ Jan 21st 2008 8:46AM]

Apple doesn't use Notes or Outlook, and they seem to do just fine.
(AAPL)

[JefTek @ Jan 17th 2008 9:42AM]

@Andrew,

It works fine in smaller controlled environments, but it breaks down due to how they attempt to resolve users. It is depdendent on unique usernames, and uses a concept of directory hunting (Guessing) to attempt to find the correct user. This works ok in a small environment, but when you attempt to integrate across environments you do not control (Business parts, Acquisitions, etc) it fails.

I'm talking enterprise 250k+ users environments, where it doesn't scale very well.

It gets even worse with Websphere and Sametime integration. The whole integration philosophy is flawed, and IBM will admit to this and will attempt to sell you their other products (TDI and TIM which also have their issues) to try and solve their integration issues.


I think Notes 8 has promise, but it's a bit too little too late because it is a radical change for shops, and at that time it should be considered if Notes is the right path to be on. I see Notes shops who have investing in Domino technology continuing to be stuck down that path.

A major problem is also the proliferation of easy to build apps that have duplicate functions in an enterprise. In that way Notes apps are like silo'd bastions of specific information, and not very usable otuside of their core population.

Just solve their identity integration issues across all their products, and it would make my world so much easier. When you have meeting after meeting with IBM engineers and they still can't fix their products after years of working with them, you get jaded.

Maybe I've worked in large environments which are "Special" and every other notes world is a happy place, but based on the feedback out there I doubt it.

[majortom @ Jan 17th 2008 10:02AM]

I work in a hospital that uses notes. Not the best looking UI I must admit but the thing is rock solid. Oh, and there 6,600 employees. From the user side it just works. But then I am still using Lotus 123 v1.o on my PC junior. :P