GeForce 8800 GT upgrade causes headaches for some Mac Pro users
By Donald Melanson 
posted January 18th 2008 11:59AM
posted January 18th 2008 11:59AM
It looks like Mac Pro users wanting to get in on some of the latest and greatest action without ditching their old system altogether are still out of luck, despite a recently released "upgrade kit" from Apple that got some of their hopes up, and caused some consternation for anyone that actually took the plunge on one. As a number of users have reported on various discussion forums (one of which is linked below), the $349 GeForce 8800 GT upgrade kit only works in the newest Mac Pros, and not the older models, due to their lack of support for PCI-Express 2.0. That little detail was indicated as requirement by Apple, although many apparently assumed the cards would work because of the inherent backwards compatibility in PCIe 2.0. As you might expect, many users are none to pleased with Apple actions on the matter, with some claiming that the company's interested only in getting customers to buy a new system instead of prolonging the life of their old one. Shocking, we know.
[Thanks, John]
Update: Nvidia's Director of PR emailed us to let us know that the company is "in the middle of bringing out an upgrade kit based on the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros." What's more, this upgrade kit "should be out in a few weeks." So there you have it, folks. We'll see if they deliver as promised.
Update #2: Minor correction: it seems that Apple didn't indicate that PCIe 2.0 was a requirement from the start. That all-important detail was only added to the description on January 15th, or six days after the cards originally went on sale.
[Thanks, John]
Update: Nvidia's Director of PR emailed us to let us know that the company is "in the middle of bringing out an upgrade kit based on the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT solution for all Intel-based Mac Pros." What's more, this upgrade kit "should be out in a few weeks." So there you have it, folks. We'll see if they deliver as promised.
Update #2: Minor correction: it seems that Apple didn't indicate that PCIe 2.0 was a requirement from the start. That all-important detail was only added to the description on January 15th, or six days after the cards originally went on sale.
Hi...frustrated Mac users. I just bought 2 8800 Ultras...man, they're awesome. I wish you could see the killer frame rates im getting. Whats that Mr Mac??? You cant upgrade? AWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Hi, you're using Windows, right? Haha.
^What?
I for one am Royally PISSED. I bought a Mac Pro 10 months ago, cost a fortune too, around 6,500$ They only thing that pissed me off when I bought it was the crappy graphic card (the ATI x1900). I thought it was pathetic of apple to be a complete generation behind when it came to graphic cards, since a Newer Generation of ATI cards for PC already where out and the NVIDIA 8800 where also out and made the 1900 look like a joke. But I needed the horse power, so I just assumed I'd upgrade the card eventually. (as better opengl performance is also important to me, as I produce 3D graphics)
Now Finally they announce A new card that I'm willing to buy right aways, to basically make my 6,500$ system complete and they have the audacity to tell me I have to buy a Completely new system, just to fix the damn error they made in the first place ?! WTF ?! I love Mac OS X, but I'm starting to loathe APPLE. As some have stated in the past, if they where as big as Microsoft, they'd be much more hated than them and this is a prime example of why!
Basically this "little" move of them is saying "Fuck you" to their biggest costumers, yeah, real nice.
sadly you are right. os x will get them by for the next...maybe decade...because it's the best right now, but they will have to change business models by then if they want to stay on top. they need to leverage the oss community and make os x a bsd release, work with the kde folks too and they will put a serious hurt on windows. then things can be as they need to be:
-os x open source (but not free, i'd still pay for it because it is worth $150 every 2 years)
-beautiful apple hardware sold not required of os x (again, i'd still buy likely because of generally good design and components, and as a whole not overpriced, but ram and video...holy crap overpriced for sure)
-iwork/koffice collaboration...might even topple the mighty ms office suite (but by then ms will likely smarten up too)
anyway, i ramble...i have a dream
Neither of you are right. Calm down.
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/19/nvidia-8800gt-option-for-older-mac-pros-soon/
Andrew @ Jan 18th 2008 12:11PM
| So Apple pointed out that it wouldn't work on older machines and
| people ASSUMED it would work so they bought it anyway and now they
| are upset?
People are upset because 1. Apple DID NOT say it wouldn't work on older machines until more than a week after they posted the 'upgrade' kit; 2) The card works perfectly well on an 'older' Mac Pro, as long as you boot into Windows or Linux instead of OS X.
lol. the "cool" and the "in thing" appeal will always sell....
why do you think American's are known around the world as lazy and stupid?
I GOTTA ask, being a mac hater and all, why the F**K do you need a GAMING VIDEO CARD in your PC when it CANT GAME?
It simply shows to me that again, you losers only want it because it's new, and costs more, not that it has any actual needed function.
Or mabe someone can prove me wrong? Although I highly doubt that.
You can game on a Mac Pro, and very nicely, thank you very much. I was playing under BootCamp COD4 on my MP w/X1900XT last night, 1680x1050, and it looked & played fantastic. So it is the best of both worlds. The issue is the X1900XT implementation for the MP is very buggy, many already on there 3rd or 4th replacement. That higher video power is also needed for many 3d applications. Thus the 8800GT is seen by many present MP users (myself included) as a necessity, especially if we expect the normal 4-6 years of life out of our computers.
You just said right there that you MUST boot into windows to play games on it, which COMPLETELY kills the purpose of owning an APPLE.
Video encoding is just as powerful on an 8400GS as it is on an 8800GT, and professional 3D apps would use an OpenGL card such as the Quaddro or FireGL series, so basically, yes, it is pointless to buy one..
Hey, have you heard of Boot Camp? Interesting. Well I just proved you wrong, anyway.
just got a evga 8800gt superclocked for 225 at work :)
:( sucks for older mac users...
There's been a lot of back-and-forth with this upgrade problem. The truth is simple. Apple built (or outsourced someone to) their own video card with the EFI64 to support their Mac Pros. They made the mistake of not making it compatible with EFI32. This has nothing to do with Nvidia or Microsoft - it's Apple's slipup. I doubt that it was done on purpose.
Everyone makes mistakes, we should withhold our criticism until Apple has proven that they are not owning up to the situation or have shown that this is indeed the conspiracy theory of forced computer upgrades that a lot are talking about. If they do, a bunch of us will feel like idiots for talking out of place.
You're right, it wasn't done on purpose. Unfortunately that will shatter the tiny little minds of all the Mac haters here, but it's true.
http://www.macrumors.com/2008/01/19/nvidia-8800gt-option-for-older-mac-pros-soon/
"I suggest you calm down". LOL that Steve really needs to work on his bedside manner. That's bordering on condescending. Is that how he talks to his followers?
omg apple, that is seriously low...like you don't even know.
Let's get this straight;
The only options you give to consumers is either
low-range: mac mini
high-range: mac pro
and medium which is the imac but isn't even a viable solution since you can't upgrade it.
The only apple product that you can upgrade is the macpro.
Even though many frustrated customers disapprove with this since they have to cough up more dough to prolong their computers lifespan through upgrading, you limit it by not letting users of computers that costs over 2 grand to upgrade to the newest cards. The macpro should be able to accept any PCI-EXPRESS CARD. Like there was so much hassle upgrading graphics cards from AGP to PCI-Express, no one knew about 2.0 :S
When consumers see that the macpro has pci-express they believe it will last for a long time, or else why else buy it :S
The point I am trying to make is that what people say about Apple wanting you to replace products, instead of helping you keep your current purchases, is completely true.
Look at the macbook air, NOTHING CAN BE UPGRADED, you can't even take out the battery without voiding your warranty.
Microsoft was able to upgrade zune 30 owners firmware to the latest one so they wouldn't be left out in the cold. Apple, nah, they would never do that.
On top of this, apple tries to gouge every pennie out of you. The video adapters are the best example. I had to buy a dvi adapter for my computer monitor, AND a vga adapter for my school for powerpoint presentations. While other laptops have full dvi not mini, I had to buy two of them, 60 dollars. Plus why couldn't I use my monitor's dvi to vga connector, because apple won't let me to.
First hearing I gotta pay $20 to get the apps for my touch, now that other users couldn't upgrade to the card they were waiting for, that just aggravates me.
Apple, you've had your better days...
Minor corrections: You can take out the battery of the MBA and replace it, however if you screw up, they won't honor your warranty.
Graphics cards on the Mac: The Mac uses EFI, PCs use BIOS. Apple used EFI 32 and now EFI 64, and for Nvidia and Ati (I believe) the Mac is an afterthought and from Ryan's updated post, it's Nvidia, not Apple who does the software. Oh and Apple were only aware of this problem days before so they weren't able to give Nvidia enough time.
"Microsoft was able to upgrade zune 30 owners firmware to the latest one so they wouldn't be left out in the cold. Apple, nah, they would never do that."
No, you're right. Apple TV Take 2 anyone? iPhone even?
As for the 20$ upgrade for the iPod touch. BLOODY HELL APPLE!
The problem is that Nvidia did a 64bit compiled for EFI.A stupid mistake.
However , this is exactly the kind of crap that EFI was supposed be good for.The way I see it ,wonderful EFI has proven itself to be nothing but a pita for the end user and for manufacturers.
In one foul swoop it turned the words compatible into incompatible and upgradeable into not-upgradeable.
For me EFI has turned out to be the biggest crock of sh*t Apple and Intel ever managed to invent.
This supposedly upgradeable object know as the Mac pro, is without dount the single least upgradeable TOWER PC the world has ever seen.
EFI simply sucks !
Too bad if you don't get the 8800 GT for the older Mac Pros.
You knew the options before you laid down the cash!
Ok folks, I am going to explain the real technical situation here. This is not a PCI Express issue. The 8800GT is fully backwards compatible with PCIe 1.x found on 2006/2007 Mac Pros. The true issue here is EFI. All Intel Macs (laptops, minis, Imacs, Mac Pros) prior to the 2008 Mac Pro are EFI 1.1 which is 32bit EFI + a BIOS compatibility layer (aka EFI32) which gives you the ability to dual boot 10.4 and 32 bit XP (this is why Apple only officially supports 32-bit OSes in Bootcamp on those machines). The new 2008 Mac Pro (and I would venture to guess all of the new aluminum iMacs and the MacBook Air as well) has UEFI 2.1 (aka EFI64) which provides 64-Bit EFI and a BIOS compatibility layer. The 8800GT card Apple is currently shipping has EFI64 firmware which is why it doesnt work in an EFI32 machine. The ATI Radeon 2600 Apple is currently shipping has EFI32 firmware which is why it does work in the 2006/2007 Mac Pros. EFI32 cards CAN work in an EFI64 enabled machine which is why Apple can offer the 2600 as it's stock card.
What needs to happen is for either Apple or nVidia to ship an EFI32 version of the 8800GT to solve this for the 2006/2007 mac Pros.
One point everyone is missing though is that you will have this SAME problem with other types of expansion cards going forward as most cards for EFI computers will likely be EFI64. Why? ...because when the Wintel world finally drops BIOS, they will opt for EFI64.
In case you are wondering how or why I know this stuff... I used to work for Intel.
I've read the promise from nVidia's PR director regarding bringing out a GeForce 8800 GT kit "for all Intel-based Mac Pros." I wonder if that means they are patching the ROM on the existing kit to work on all Mac Pros. Or if he means there will be two kits, one for old, one for new.
I hope it's the former.
BTW, we have the Radeon X1900 XT running in our 2008 Mac Pro (Harpertown) and the Radeon HD 2600 XT running in our 2007 Mac Pro (Clovertown). I guess ATI did it right, putting both 32-bit and 64-bit EFI drivers in their cards' ROM.