Blu-ray players grab 93 percent of market after Warner went Blu
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted January 22nd 2008 1:03PM
posted January 22nd 2008 1:03PM
[Via Blu-ray.com]
posted January 22nd 2008 1:03PM
A look back on popular stories from today in a specific year.
Now that we've thrown 'em off the trail, use the form below to get in touch with the people at Engadget. Please fill in all of the required fields because they're required.
wow that is amazing!!! But did you also see that at other pointless stores across the nation the 360 is completely sold out as are Wii's?? What does that mean? Nothing! We are sold out of everything but one A35 HD DVD player at our store and they have been selling like crazy. Is that good news for HD DVD? NO... Is it bad news? NO...
Just enjoy your movies and quite trying to rationalize your purchase.
Eh, I wouldn't put too much into that.
80gb PS3's haven't been available here for a while (anywhere within 50 miles, which is about 7 stores). I finally asked a manager at Best Buy what the deal was and when they were getting more in and they said they hadn't gotten any in a month, and weren't expecting to get any more anytime soon because they just weren't able to move them up alongside the 40gb PS3's and the other consoles.
It would seem many retailers are getting in either a lot more (or only) of the 40gb models than the 80 giggers.
Here, there were a lot of 40gb PS3's left (though they seemed to be moving a lot too, so it isn't like they aren't selling), no premium or Elite 360's, and of course no Wii's.
You left out the part that says HD DVD has 64% of standalone market.
http://www.cepro.com/article/gaming_pushing_blu_ray_hd_dvd_market_research_finds/
@ gregorykingston,
"Bill Hunt of The Digital Bits (via Jake West) points to new NPD Group data that shows that, since the Warner announcement, Blu-ray hardware sales—even without counting the PS3—have dominated HD DVD sales"
This was quoted directly from your link. "even WITHOUT counting the PS3".
Let it die man... just let it die.
You forgot the part where it says between Q1 and Q3. How convenient that you list the figure that excludes Q4 sales and excludes the PS3 but doesn't state whether it excludes the 360 HD-DVD.
Yeah but it did HD-DVD no good. As much as folks don't want to admit, PS3 owners DO buy movies... HD movies sales in 2007 prove this, where BD outsold HD-DVD the entire year.
Wow - read the article you linked *CAREFULLY*. It was very precise in how little it said.
For example: it carefully said "Q1-Q3". Uh, the article was 1/22/08 -- why doesn't it include Q4 numbers?
"Standalone... not including PS3", and "Sony, Toshiba, and Microsoft... which manufacture HD DVD players".
So, in one swoop, they eliminate the PS3, but include MS because it is an "external player".
******
Yet, you manage to label this an "HD-DVD win"? Are you nfinity's alter-ego, resurrected (since "he" has not posted since 1/7/08 - http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/funai-announces-nb500-blu-ray-player-bound-for-north-america/ (2nd post))?
Wow - read the article you linked *CAREFULLY*. It was very precise in how little it said.
For example: it carefully said "Q1-Q3". Uh, the article was 1/22/08 -- why doesn't it include Q4 numbers?
"Standalone... not including PS3", and "Sony, Toshiba, and Microsoft... which manufacture HD DVD players".
So, in one swoop, they eliminate the PS3, but include MS because it is an "external player".
******
Yet, you manage to label this an "HD-DVD win"? Are you nfinity's alter-ego, resurrected (since "he" has not posted since 1/7/08 - http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/07/funai-announces-nb500-blu-ray-player-bound-for-north-america/ (2nd post))?
What a bizarre coincidence. I've always believe that 92.52% of people are idiots, this graph seems to support that theory.
HD-DVD players are stagnant right now. And the returns are coming in in large amounts. We had them priced half price and they aren't selling. We have stacks of HD-DVD players but they just sit. We can't get enough Blu-Ray players for the demand.
And to match above, XBox and Wii is so damned out of stock except some XBox arcade models. Sony has ramped up and sends us so many PS3's to fill demand and take that money. Just like xmas, a kid will take a substitute for what they originally wanted.
Eric DJ, without saying what retailer and market you represent your statements are completely arbitrary. Not like you would be inclined to state the truth anyways. For example I'm EriC DJ from Treestump, TX at Bob's Electronics Store is alot different than representing Best Buy in Seattle, where the 3 Best Buy's in the area have a 4-1 retail space advantage for HD DVD. I can't speak for other areas, but in Seattle...Blu Ray sells, but not nearly as well as HD DVD.
So, I live in Kirkland, WA and shop at the Bellevue Best Buy and I would have to say that Best Buy favors Blu-ray not HD DVD. I have seen the shelving space for HD DVD dwindle down to 2.5 sections while Blu-Ray has an entire isle. I used to work for Best Buy in Las Cruces, NM and when the HD movies came out HD DVD was outselling Blu-ray hands down and did so for quite some time. I LOVE HD DVD and was hoping it would win since they have done it so well (special features from day 1 have been better than blu) but i also own a blu-ray player (for certain movies) and I too want to say that Toshiba, Universal, Dreamworks, and Paramount need to go blu :( It is a losing battle and they need to move on. All of my HD DVD loving co-workers and friends have said the same. So, unless HD DVD has some major anouncement to turn the war around, I really hope that they will just let HD DVD go and start doing the blu-ray thing. I want a toshiba HD DVD/blu-ray player! (I will not be getting rid of my HD DVDs. I still prefer them and will continue to watch them until they break or something new comes out)
@ Showtime, I don't live on the Eastside and never have a reason to goto Bellevue. Visit the Lynnwood, Northgate or Everett Best Buy's if you want reassurances that HD DVD is commanding larger retail space than Blu Ray.
As an HD DVD supporter, I can say that it would be unequivocally stupid to purchase any HD DVD hardware at this point.
I don't see much of a loss to continue buying discs (especially since the prices should be cut), but buying hardware would be a waste of money. There is no recovery for HD DVD here, too much is aligned against it.
To an extent I agree with you.
But for someone not going into it blindly, knowing that format will be most likely out of retailers within 8 months it isn't really that bad.
7 movies and a player for $120 and with most of the movies probably hitting clearance bin soon. So many people selling them on eBay, as long as you know what your getting into you can get some enjoyment out if it.
However, anyone that buys one now thinking it might have a comeback is probably not of sound mind
God, I'm glad you don't play the stock market. No vision, no patience, just panic! All bad attribues. If you look at IMDB and total up all the films each exclusive studio has distribution rights to here in the US. HD DVD has 43% of all movies ever created potentially available for release (No, I did not include any Warner titles, not even the ones already available on HD DVD). That's a deep catalog of titles to draw from. This format war is still in it's infancy and claiming 93% of 1% of the market is a joke. The real issue here is getting people to adopt HDTV's and showing them how to view them correctly. Most people are content with DVD. That's the reality. I'm not sure if either format will be around long enough to make it through this basic transition. However, I still hedge my bets on HD DVD for long term adoption.
You don't know whether or not I have stocks.
Seriously, I tried for quite a while to pull any numbers to convince myself that HD DVD was going to come out on top, yours might be the most ridiculous I have seen yet. Nobody is going to release their entire catalog on either high-def disc.
I don't think it would be much of a sound strategy to go out on a very, very far limb with stocks either. Hey, you can do what you want with your money.
@dammenion
Yeah that necessarily isn't that bad of an idea if you are know what you are getting into.
"1. HD DVD's entry cost is much cheaper than Blu-ray's. "
Yes, because Toshiba subsidized their players. It was the only weapon they had to take a lead in this war and it still failed. That's an advantage when you are a monopoly. By contrast the BDA is a consortium of virtually every consumer electronics company except Toshiba and subsidization was out of the question. Those guys are in it to make a profit by selling hardware and they're not going to take a loss on hardware. I doubt Sony even did it for fear of angering its partners.
"2. Blu-ray is extremely anti-consumer. You buy a blu-ray player, and you buy a blu-ray disc, everything should work, right? Nope, that disc may or may not be compatible with that player."
This is completely false. Blu ray discs will continue to play on 1.0 players. Maybe you won't be able to run interactive BD-J apps that use the internet but so what? Do you think such apps are going to be so absolutely compelling that your experience is ruined without them?
"3. Furthering the anti-consumer line, prepare for DRM hell. "
And this is different to HD DVD or DVD how? They all implement DRM. Do you really think studios would endorse a format that doesn't contain it? Perhaps you might say that HD DVD's DRM was crackable. In response I'd say that studios may have considered that when they went Blu.
"4. Toshiba has a huge stake in DVD. Were HD DVD to win out, it would be a natural progression to see DVD move to HD DVD. "
And now it will be a natural progression to see DVD move to Blu Ray. Aside from three letters, DVD and HD DVD share practically nothing whatsoever in common. And Blu Ray players will play DVDs too you know.
"So, the audio and video is basically the same on both. But if 5 years from now if we're all sitting here watching the crappy audio and video on our DVDs because Blu-ray's high entry costs and all-around consumer unfriendliness caused the format to die out next to DVD, you will sure as hell care then, and perhaps realize how shortsighted you were."
Perhaps you don't realise how the market works. The members of the BDA are competing with each other on price and the prices will continue to drop. Don't like a Sony player? Buy one from Sharp, Samsung, Philips etc. Buy players on their merits - their looks, price and features. There will be models below $300 and possibly below $200 before the year is out. And without subsidizing the cost either.
"But hey, now that HD DVD is basically gone, I'm right there with all the people I've been arguing with hoping that Blu-ray can become mainstream. I just hope Sony is able to pull it off and not ruin HDM for all of us."
I don't see how a swift conclusion to this stupid war will hurt HD any. Sony and other stakeholders in the format are motivated by profits. I assume they'll do all they can to maximize their profits by pushing the format into the mainstream.
I still think that HD DVDs at this point have more to offer than there counterpoint, but it is irrelevant.
Virtually all HD DVD players can handle all of the features, and have internet connectivity. That does beat almost all of the BD players. The extra features do add a lot to the movie, something I didn't realize until I started looking for reasons to justify my format stance. Once BD gets finalized I think you all will see what we were talking about.
HD DVDs are region free. I think that is a big plus in terms of getting foreign films at home. Now I know in reality that was used to circumvent the whole exclusive thing, but had that not been an issue it would have been nice to do that.
I think the fear of BD DRM was that it was going to cause problems playing back. I don't know if it actually has, but the more DRM the more problems it can cause for legal use.
DVD to HD DVD did seem like a natural progression. HD DVD could use the same replication lines as DVDs with a few modifications. Also, you can burn HD DVD data onto a DVD disc. There are more similarities than you might think.
In the end it doesn't matter though. All that mattered in this war was studio exclusives and the PS3. I can accept the fact that it is over. I just think your list shows that HD DVDs may have actually had more to offer than BD.
I see now you were really replying to someone else, and I replying to you.
The original post was short sided, but I don't think your post was much better.
"Perhaps you might say that HD DVD's DRM was crackable. In response I'd say that studios may have considered that when they went Blu."
I thought it was pretty clear that the reason Fox and Warner went Blu was the payouts... Just like the reason Paramount went red.
i too can't in good conscience recommend to someone to buy a hd dvd player at this point. purchase movies if you are already an owner and enjoy the deep markdowns on discs. but new customers that managed to wait on the sidelines still have a better chance of going blu than red.
bring on the catalog titles! there is nothing i want to see more than some GOOD catalog titles. day-and-date releases are great, but in the off weeks when no high profile new release comes out, hd dvd should be pumping the shelves full of premium catalog titles which i have not seen.
heck, i would be happy with just some SD anamorphic releases of my favorite films, armageddon and the abyss (both of which would go bluray if they ever came out..)
Blu-Ray player sales increased 39% from the week ending 01/05/08 to the week ending 01/12/08. I wouldn't call that nearly doubling. Bill Hunt should break out his calculator before he starts making false, slanted statements.
(1) 48.83x + 7.47y = 30.59
(2) 51.17x + 92.53y = 69.41
Multiply first equation by 92.53 and divide by 7.47:
(3) 604.85x + 92.53y = 378.91
Subtract (3) from (2):
(4) -553.68x = -309.5
(5) x = 0.56
(6) y = (30.59 - (48.83)(0.56))/7.47
(7) y = 0.43
(8) (51.17)(0.56) = 28.66
(9) (92.53)(0.43) = 39.79
(10) ((39.79-28.66)/28.66)*100% = +39%
"As you can see, Blu-ray Disc players outsold HD-DVD players in the month of December here in the States by about a 60/40 margin, and that split has grown to 70/30 in favor of Blu-ray in the first half of January. This despite the fact that HD-DVD players were (on average) some $200 cheaper than Blu-ray players throughout the holiday shopping season.
But the most striking revelation in the data is the change in the hardware sales ratios between the first and second weeks of January (ending 1/5 and 1/12), reflecting the impact of Warner's announcement (and the mainstream media reaction). The graphs below show player sales for each format both before and after Warner's 1/4 press release...
As you can see, HD-DVD player sales dropped dramatically in the week after Warner's announcement, while Blu-ray Disc player sales nearly doubled over the same period."
http://www.digitalbits.com/#npd
@Leonardo DiCrapio you need to keep the math simple here otherwise fanboys will call you a doody head.
From Evan:
"Virtually all HD DVD players can handle all of the features, and have internet connectivity. "
Toshiba made a survey. Only -30%- of the early adopters use online features (wouldn't be surprised if it was mostly the add-on buyers, surprisingly composing 1/3 of the HD DVD sales). How much of that do you think your average consumer would use, given that you have to have your deck hooked to an Ethernet port? Living room much?
By contrast, for those who desire this kind of features, the PS3 is the perfect match. Wireless internet my friend, among other things.
"HD DVDs are region free. I think that is a big plus in terms of getting foreign films at home. "
I hate to break it to you, but the zone thing, is something studios want. The format itself doesn't force it on you. Hence you have some Blu Ray with zoning, and some without.
"I think the fear of BD DRM was that it was going to cause problems playing back. " There's been one problem, now long solved, with BD+ and Fox (very strong supporter of DRM. on this subject, Lol at people who still think Fox was going HD DVD). Again, BD+ is optionnal, it's a studio desire to protect their content.
You want the film on your portable device? I have good news, seems they are heading that way (check the upcoming release of Hitman by Fox). But let's be real. Msot people who cried wolf on DRM did so becasue they intend to Download said movies, just like Truth Teller admitted. Slysoft's support for HD DVD, from a studio's point of view, was one of the worst thing -ever- for HD DVD.
"DVD to HD DVD did seem like a natural progression. HD DVD could use the same replication lines as DVDs with a few modifications. Also, you can burn HD DVD data onto a DVD disc. There are more similarities than you might think."
Too many similarities, because HD DVD was thought as a means to do a quick gap waiting for Downloads (hence MS getting involved in it).
Lower capacity (and less capacity to evolve), lower bandwidth, among other things.
You think Sony is greedy? They are allied to dozens of CE maker in the BDA. How about Toshba who prefers to now screw the consumers, with the slight hope of keeping their DVD royalties up? (and maybe even build such a HD DVD user base that they will force hardware makers to put in legacy HD DVD compatibility in their products, thus getting royalties on HW)?
"In the end it doesn't matter though. All that mattered in this war was studio exclusives and the PS3. I can accept the fact that it is over. I just think your list shows that HD DVDs may have actually had more to offer than BD."
It was ready earlier thanks to MS's help. Without MS's involvement (to help their own goal of Xbox Live domination), Blu Ray might have been delayed, but we'd have a much clearer picture (no profiles) and a free for all between CE makers that would already drive prices down with one format to naturally supplant DVD.
MS failed (Apple caught the ball, signing up all studios on its crappy 720p rent service), Toshi is clinging to its royalties, and Para and Uni are left wondering What The Hell they can do to save face.
/golfclap Tosh+MS
P.S about the "64% HD DVD standalone domination".
They include the following makers in that survey: Sony, Toshiba and Microsoft (duh). They also specify that PS3s aren't included.
Morale: how to twist numbers by including HD DVD standalones and Xbox add ons vs only Blu Ray standalones. Won't fly. PS3s have been proven to be a strong part of the Blu Ray market.
LMAO
The Blu-ray fans can try and talk-up their preferred format all they like but HD DVD is not going away.
Even by the BDAs own numbers Blu-ray does not even reach 1% of the annual total movie disc market.
The BDA said in the (almost) 2 years that each have been available Blu-ray has sold 6 million discs to HD DVDs almost 3 million discs..
In a market that saw 750+ million disc sales last year alone.
Blu-ray have won nothing.
Truth Teller,
How stupid can you be?
You must seriously be on the Toshiba payroll.
HD-DVD is dead and it only makes you look stupid how you actively pronounce that its coming back.
I got some more news for you:
Paramount is coming aboard by March at latest. Just watch :-)
It is TRUE that Best Buy is phasing out HD-DVD.
So unless your sleeping with Ken Graffeo, Robert Zohn or Jodi Sally you should just hop on the bandwagon because your LIES do nothing but make you look like an idiot. You spreading FUD about HD-DVD coming back, does not make it so. Get a real job, such as a car salesman maybe you can use your lying to make some money.
Here's another idea:
Try backing up your statements with facts.
Lol "Lie Teller".
Is Toshiba paying you to post those ridiculous statements? :)
By your comments even, the fight is now Blu Ray vs DVD, and that's only starting.
If Blu Ray has won anything, by your own admission, it has won vs HD DVD.
DEEZNUTZ
Brokeback Mountain is available on Blu-ray Region B
http://www.sendit.com/video/item/7001000128852
Cheers
This could very well be true, but something smells fishy, even if HD DVD threw in the towel and gave up, it would be hard to change the market that quickly. Thats just my personal view on it, and i have nothing to back that up.
A lot of the sales swing to Blu-Ray IMO, has to do with a lack of decent HD-DVD titles lately. How do they expect to compete when Blu-Ray has all the "Pirates ..." and "Spiderman" out there when HD is giving us "White Noise 1 & 2" and "Dead Silence" and "Norbit" etc. Universal has the Jurassic titles if they could get Spielberg to allow the release, and the Back to the Future titles, and Gladiator and "A Beautiful mind" and "Out of Africa" and several Hitchcock classics etc. Also, all the newer titles are more expensive Combo titles (which I hate and refuse to pay more for) - there are many films I would have bought if they weren't Combo discs and I'm sure I'm not alone - Warner's was doing the same with their newer releases too, and again there are many Warner titles I would have bought if they weren't combos. So we need better titles and more of them and no more combos. That should help sell a few more players.
"All I can say is, "Why?" Seriously, why buy software if you don't have the hardware? Did you get it at some superfantubulous sale price?"
Yes, discoverystore.com is having a sale, up to 75% off some box sets, I thought why not upgrade to Blu-Ray version for $10 more than the CD DVD since it looks like the format war is over anyway.. I also got Blue Planet on DVD since there's no HD release of that yet.
Yes, I have a 34" CRT HDTV I bought 2 years ago.
Yes, I have a 5.1 surround system. No, it's not HDMI, boo hoo I'll live with bitstream/optical/analog/whatever until I upgrade.
These stats are deliberately misleading, it is just diabolical journalism. This was one of the few weeks that HD DVD players were expensive. The sales figures over a longer period would be completely different.
It's crystal clear that there is an agenda at play here.
Yes, the agenda is to push folks towards one format, the format with the better chance of competing with DVD. They battled it out and consumers have chosen. What else do you want? HD-DVD came to the market first, so face it, they blew it.
It's just the same old same old.
Empty talk.
Despite all the chatter it turns out that Blu-ray hasn't suddenly grabbed more than 1% of the total movie disc market (don't be silly) or the standalone market for that matter.
The laughably insecure Blu-ray gang are just doing their usual talking-up of their preferred format and trying to shout down anyone who dares to disagree.
It kind of spoils the atmos for them when their circle-jerking 'we already won BS' gets interrupted.
You can tell they are worried (especially by HD DVD's current excellent sales numbers on top of an excellent Q4 2007) by the way they get ever more abusive & shrill.
They know that they have (again) not seen their favourite game console format kill off HD DVD (& note the venom aimed at Universal after the recent interview) and their day-dreams of Blu-ray doing much beyond the game console niche are going to remain sheer ludicrous fantasy.
It's pretty funny in a slightly sad way really.
Its surreal having just 1 hd format now.
Blu-ray DVD.
Looking forward to improved encodes of Batman Begins and V for Vendetta on BD.
King Kong and Bourne Ultimatum will definitely be out this summer as well on Blu-ray...its obvious Universal will surprise announce their forfeit soon enough.
which reminds me, I need to update my avatar.
I can only only hope that Blu-Ray also DIES!!! That people in the end won't put up with this DRM infested unfinished, rushed to marketplace format. I know I'll never support it. I won't have anything to do with it. If you want it, fine, I think your a sucker, but so be it. Your a even bigger sucker to even buy a player now until it's a 2.0 final version. Really the only player that's even upgradeable to 2.0 is the PS3, but with it lacking a IR port, that just sucks for you all.
I really can't wait for the backlash from Blu-Ray users buying 1.1 or 2.0 Blu-Ray movies and finding out they can't use all the features they paid for on the disc and learning they have to buy a NEW expensive 2.0 player. Oh sure the people around here know, but most don't. A bunch of suckers brainwashed by the great Marketing on Blu-Rays side and buying up the Studio's. Sure can't win in a fair fight. I'll live if Upscaled DVD's. DVD's that I can rip and put on any device I want quite easily.
The jump from VHS to DVD was huge. The jump from DVD to Blu-Ray? Not really, nothing I just can't live without. Die Blu-Ray Die!!! I don't even know anyone that have either format.
Eh genius you understand that you need a fixed pixel display bigger than 17" to appreciate HDM right? You can't expect to see any difference between DVD and BD if you're using a CRT for frick sakes. Then again, stick to CRT considering you're probably near blind.
I'd wager that they're counting shipments, and not actual retail sales. That's common in consumer electronics. It makes more sense, as the average consumer doesn't know that the BR-HD war is over. They still see stacks of these HD players at WalMart at decent prices. Why wouldn't they still buy them? However, why would any retailer order any new HD players? They wouldn't so the numbers make sense if they are counting shipments and not sales.
"Eh genius you understand that you need a fixed pixel display bigger than 17" to appreciate HDM right? You can't expect to see any difference between DVD and BD if you're using a CRT for frick sakes. Then again, stick to CRT considering you're probably near blind."
LOL. You must be brand new to the world of HD. My CRT display may only be 1080i but the difference between SD and HD on it is night and day. Really, CRT is second place only to Plasma in terms of display quality and if you were any kind of "HD Purist" you'd know this already.