Mac OS X 10.5.2 update now said to be packing nearly 100 fixes
By Donald Melanson 
posted Jan 22nd 2008 11:03AM
posted Jan 22nd 2008 11:03AM
Last we heard, Apple had some 76 fixes in store for the now-imminent 10.5.2 update of Mac OS X, otherwise known as Leopard. Of course, that was more than a month ago, and Apple seems to have found plenty more room for improvement since then. According to AppleInsider, "people familiar with the software" are now saying that the update will pack "nearly 100 code corrections and enhancements," including twenty fixes that were turned up in the short time since Mac OS X 10.5.2 build 9C16 was released to developers during Macworld. All told, that should bring the latest update in just over the 450MB mark which, as AppleInsider points out, should make it the biggest "dot release" of Mac OS X yet.
i've used XP, a lot of Linux and now Leopard.
With all of them i had to "invoke" angels and saints to get things working, with all of them! With different aspects from installing new software, compiling kernel modules and new services. So i'm day by day more convinced that it's not in the bugs or problems that you can compare something to something else (of course this is true to a certain extent, if a system is quite often crashing it's not so good). I think that it's when things are going good, working in their right way, that you can compare one system to another.
An when Mac Os X is working is simply the most advanced and beautiful system in the world. The experience you feel is just better. A lot better.
I think that it's almost the same in other aspects of life, in relations with people. But of course this is just my opinion !
Max
mike says hes smart enough to buy different companies products, but then makes his user icon the windows symbol. Ok, hypocrite. You're just as far gone for microsoft as anyone else on here is for Apple.
All that and no word on an updated release?! I'm getting super SICK of these bugs! How much longer is this going to take?! As a long time daily user of both OS's I'd have to side with jtc970. The Lincoln Logs metaphor is a surprisingly accurate description of both OS's. You know what though? They BOTH suck! and who the hell can productively use linux for anything cept code? Theres things missing from each OS and theres things I like about each OS that the other doesn't have. For instance: New Folder Shortcut: great on mac... none on a PC?! Vista can edit mp3 ID3 tags right from your windows explorer. Not on a mac...I can connect USB drives and rip them out with ease in Windows. OSX not so, most of the time they don't even mount. We won't even get into network issues cause thats just mean. Obviously the PC wins there. And for real, we still don't have tabbed explorer windows in either OS??!?! not to mention some dual monitor support!
HOLY SHIT ITS HERE!!!
Just fell across this little battle.
Mike, you have to be THE single most boring person alive . . . and your spelling is awful . . . and you don't seem to use much punctuation.
Apart from that - I'm sure you're lovely.
Funny how no one notices the flaws in Apples stuff...
Heh you obviously have not spent a lot of time around here since Leopard came out.
We Mac users have been rather vocal about the shortcomings in the new OS.
I tend to ignore the Apple related news.
So then Mike you would be the one not noticing Apple's flaws?
So then Mike you would be the one not noticing Apple's flaws?
Personally, I can care less as I am smart enough to buy products from other companys.
I agree that there are flaws with certain aspects of Leopard but, to me, the fact that they have released fixes relatively quickly compared to the lengthly process for Vista SP1 to appear, i am still much happier using it.
I will agree there. Vista SP1 and XP SP3 are taking awhile...
Soul I don't know about Apple, but Microsoft releases updates once a week. SP1 is to Vista as Leopard itself is to OSX. Except Leopard costs you money where SP1 is free to us. 10.5.2 is to OSX as WEEKLY updates are to Vista.
BTW I dont' know what most people are talking about but my Vista X64 Ultimate runs much better than XP ran on my laptop.
Its just the fanboys complaining. I have used Linux and I had way more problems then I ever did with XP.
As a Vista and Mac user, and as a software developer, I have to say that generally, bugs don't bother me much. I understand the process. The biggest problems I have with Vista aren't bugs, they are the numerous poorly designed features that leave me wondering what the hell Microsoft was thinking.
You care so little that you reply to this subject. I think it's more likely you enjoy provocation. I always wonder why everyone moans at Apple users as being vocal and smug. On the contrary, I always find it's the Windows users who strike the first blow.
@mike
Look Ballmer!!! Keep your tounge in your mouth (you scare all the kids!)and p**s off!!
Developers, Developers, Developers, Developers!
@ Donato - Apple also release regular updates for Securtiy and all Apple software via the Software updater which are more comparable to the Windows weekly / monthly updates. The service packs for XP and Vista, IMO, are very much the same as the 10.5.x updates due to the fact that they concentrate on larger more complex system wide issues as well as adding and removing features from the OS.
hey wait, I thought Apple products were perfect? I mean, PC Mag said that Mac's run Vista better and all those commercials...who would have thought that they have flaws too? Or maybe in fact that they make a product like everyone else and it is not perfect, never was, and never will be. I mean, an 11 year old wrote a virus for the iPhone. You know Jobs, your products are just as vulnerable and flawed as the next guys. Now, I know this is really surprising to some of you Apple fanboys so take a deep breathe after reading this post and do your little three fingered cloverleaf thingy when your Mac FREEZES.
"I tend to ignore the Apple related news."
Ahuh. What did you think this article was about then? Cooking?
"I tend to ignore the Apple related news."
Ahuh. What did you think this article was about then? Cooking?
Yeah, I notice plenty of flaws, and point them out constantly to my fanboy friends. The fact that I like OS X Def Leppard a lot more than Tiger doesn't mean I'm blind to its problems.
Here's hoping VLC's seek bar will no longer be whited-out (maybe that's a VLC problem, but the newest 0.8.6.d didn't completely fix it).
It just works!
...once we fix these hundred things....we hope....
Smart enough to buy products elsewhere, but not smart enough to pluralise company correctly. CompanIEs, not companYs.
Hard not to notice the flaw in your avatar though!
You know why PC users start you Apple users off? IT AMUSES US!
airport extreme usb drive time machine usability fix?
maybe i missed it, but is there a link to the list of fixes? i still have issues with my 2 mini's by the keyboard not functioning coming off of sleep mode.
"I tend to ignore the Apple related news."
yet you read and comment on even a trivial article. strange behavior.
Bob, good job replying to the wrong person. Idiot.
oh, and another great thing would be to add this natively...i did it on my own, looks awesome, but i hate the console...
http://t.ecksdee.org/post/19001860
totally not verified, but the time machine over airport extreme may be fixed in 10.5.2
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/01/22/10-5-2-to-add-remote-backup-translucent-menubar-option
I'm not trying to begin the inevitable flame war here, but shouldn't Apple...you know...release these fixes if they already have them? If there are 100 fixes that means at least 100 problems, be they security, performance, or whatever. I'm not quite sure what the point of holding onto a pack of fixes is if you already have them. I'll take small immediate releases of fixes over a "largest ever" pack of them anyday.
No, this is so they can charge you 20 dollars for the update.
Still cheaper then vista...
@slug
Vista is a whole OS, not an update to fix flaws.
Quality and Assurance. They are testing the fixes. If they didn't and just pushed them out for everyone to use they would most likely cause more problems than they'd fix.
I ment on top of the total os. HAHA im not that stupid.
you sure?
I understand testing the fixes, but it seems that most of them have
been given the okay by the testers from what the article says.
Slug - while it may be cheaper than a Windows OS, the fact of
charging for a bug fix seems a tad bit of a letdown to me. If there's
a problem with your code that has left some holes or some performance
issues, its your responsibility to fix it. Furthermore, if there are
security holes and in the time between the knowledge of the fix and
the release of the fix, someone's computer is attacked and they lose
data or have critical information stolen, it can cost more than just
cash. As an added bonus, the most common form of Windows (IMO) is the
upgrade version, which is priced comparatively to Leopard before you
factor in these "dot releases."
@ Darak.
Apple aren't actually charging for the update. It was a pathetic joke from Mike.
@slug
what do you call "Leopard"?
@Borik
Is that a trick question?
@Borik
Is that a trick question?
@Slug
I never reply, but you're spewing idiocy.
What do you call leopard? A new OS. Think of "OS 10.x.x" just like the moniker "Windows". Leopard is a New OS, as is Vista. Microsoft doesn't give Vista away, just as Apple will charge for Leopard. This update, however, just like any SP update for windows, is free, assuming you have the OS that corresponds, in this case,
Leopard---> 10.5.2update
Vista----> SP1
Its really not complicated
This thread contains so many fails.
Good grief, Charlie Brown!
But I thought it "just worked"? What could possibly need fixing?
They're not fixes, think of it as 100 new "features" to go along with the 300 new features of Leoptard.
*Groan*
that sounded better in your head right?
@system48, if those are "added features", then you would expect to pay at least $5 for the "features", just to be SOX compliant.
Any sufficiently advanced bug is indistinguishable from a feature!
The greater degree of complexity and the constant competitiveness. We may begin to see many scenerios like this with both Apple and Microsoft in the upcoming decade
They better have fixed the hidden wireless broadcast ID bug! I am getting so sick and tired of having to reconnect my Mac to my wireless network because the damn OS doesn't store wireless networks that have hidden broadcast IDs.
The iPod Touch has the same bug, too!
FIX IT. It's been broken since release, and works 100% fine on Tiger!
Pip,
I have not experienced that problem at all. Maybe I am lucky, but I have had no trouble with hidden SSID's and that includes Linksys, Netgear and D-Link routers, and 4-5 Macs, and my iPhone, and I use them every day. Have other people been having this problem? You are the first one I have heard this complaint from. Maybe it is your particular router?
My personal bugbear with Leopard too, that and the fact that my Epson network printers don't work.
Those are my two most critical fixes, I hope they are addressed in 10.5.2
My friend can't get Leopard to remember his wireless network, and I doubt that it's hidden. Seems to be a problem with Leopard and wireless networks in general, not just hidden ones.
Pip, have you reported this bug to Apple? If not, check out bugreporter.apple.com. A bug might seem very obvious to the user, but in reality be controlled by some unusual circumstances that aren't tested at Apple. Thus, always report bugs if you want 'em fixed :)
Oh, and also, to the rest of the thread: Please don't feed the trolls.
Just turn off Airport then turn it back on on the top menu bar thingy. It takes like 3 seconds.
But not smart enough to spell companies?
I switched from PC to Mac when Leapord came out, it is an amazing operating system. No problems at all. I will never go back, and I am in the process of changing over all my business PCs, wifes laptop all to Mac.
Apple products are amazing, way better than Windows.
Ron
Thanks Ron.
I switched from my Leopard to Windows only, with a taste of Linux here and there.
OMG! Really!
I've never heard a Mac user claim that their OS is superior before!
Maybe you can help me.
Can you upgrade to an 8800GTX? Do you need some special kit?
Is the hardware for your awesome computer a competitive market?
If I wanted to use my existing library of software would I need to install a second operating system?
I've been longing to become a brainwashed clone and to feel superior over stupid people who aren't as happy as you, Will I too become as happy as you?
@jtc:
No one is ever happy... Unless they bash the competition in they're ads instead of show the actual product they are trying to sell of course.
I moved to Vista 4 months after launch and I can say the same.
Fuck! That came out wrong! I've moved to Vista and loved it ever since.
That always happens to me.
@jtc970
Well actually...
There is a version that will work with both old and new mac pro's http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/01/19/nvidia_readying_geforce_8800_gt_upgrade_for_earlier_mac_pros.html
...not sure what thats got to do witht the OS, but hey, whatever make you happy.
Again, not sure what the hardware has to do with the OS?
And finally no i dont think you would. There is an alternative app/mac version of ever windows application i would say! The only reason peaple would use windows is for people who use windows software at work, or people who have been using windows apps for many years, and dont want to learn how to use the new one. I, personally have been able to live without windows, i was eager to learn how to use the new software and it worked out fine for me.
Oh btw, can windows load OS X for your apple apps?
P.s i just read over my last comment. Spelling is atrocious!!
uh oh... :(
@slug
Specific Hardware + Leopard/Tiger = MAC
Any hardware + Windows = PC
I tie hardware together with MACs OS as the choices are limited and tyhey are one and the same.
So I see you can get a 8800GT later on, good for you guys. How about shopping around for a third party for a better price? What about when a newer model comes out?
No I cant run OS X on my computer, whats that say? There is no market for it.
You can run/dual boot Windows, because both Microsoft and Apple know there is a need/market for it on the MAC, to run the vast amount of software available to Windows.
The fact is you are very limited in choice once you go Mac. You are chained to fixed prices without competition.
I said it once already, I'll say it again.
You are comparing your Lincoln Logs to my Lego
Sure you can build a log cabin better and faster
but just try building an X-fighter and a super cool jet powered racer.
@ Slug
Actually there are reports of the upgrade kit not working http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/geforce-8800-gt-upgrade-causes-headaches-for-some-mac-pro-users/
Problem is with OS X not with the cards
Really there is a Mac version of every windows software, yeah ok keep on telling yourself that.
and why in the world would I even want to load OS X apps in windows thats just silly, but yes it can be done very easily its called the OS X86 project and it works like a champ, but again why would I need OS X apps in windows?
I didn't realize you could build "an X-fighter and a super cool jet powered racer" only with Legos...or was that Windows, or did you mean a 8800GT?
Use the tools at your disposal efficiently, whatever they may be.
Anyone getting themselves worked up about the disparaging differences between operating systems needs a few more hobbies and experience to round out their knowledge.
@ jtc970
"Specific Hardware + Leopard/Tiger = MAC
Any hardware + Windows = PC
I tie hardware together with MACs OS as the choices are limited and tyhey are one and the same."
Bloody hell. It's Mac. Not MAC. MAC stands for Media Access Control.
I capitalize all letters in MAC to relate with MAC users and emphasize MACs' superiority over everything not MAC.
Sorry if that offends you.
If your happy with MAC I'm happy for you.
Some people are happy with their Volkswagon Bugs, others prefer a more versatile vehicle.
@ jtc970
It's Mac not MAC. MAC stands for Media Access Control
"I capitalize all letters in (Media Access Control) to relate with (Media Access Control) users and emphasize (Media Access Control)s' superiority over everything not (Media Access Control).
Sorry if that offends you.
If your happy with (Media Access Control) I'm happy for you."
That is what I'm annoyed about. See?
For the last time:
Mac
Not
Media Access Control (MAC)
I'm sorry, I forgot I was talking to a Mac user who is used to the simple things, and doesn't let complicated context get in the way of understanding.
@Ron
Glad Apple worked out for you. My fiance decieded she wanted a Mac for graphics, which is about the only reason would really get a Mac. I hate the damn thing because I get stuck supporting it and finding all the third party software needed to make it work in any sort of commercial environment. So much for "It just works", must only apply to music and movies....
Just $20 to fix over 100 buggs !
it costs $20 for 10.5.2?!?!?!?!?!?!
No.
@ InsertAlias: i was being facetious, but it's good you clarified in case that didn't come across, thank you.
Sarcasm doesn't always come across well in text, and some people are relatively stupid. Someone might have believed it.
Hope they fixed the irritating Airport dropping Wifi Bug.
I think its funny how the same people here saying "why didn't Apple already fix these problems/give us these fixes now" are probably the same people saying "Just wait until SP1, then it will be fully usable" about Windows Vista. Not to mention the ignorant comment about the upgrade costing $20, these is a big difference between a feature/code upgrade to your computer's OS (which including hardware you've spent well over $2000 on by this point, one way or the other, if not more) and the additional of additional application features to a $300-400 handheld. Its likely the $20 charge on the Touch has more to do with AT&T's contract for the iPhone, if they hadn't charged they might have been in violation of some term(s) of that agreement.
Keep hating though, it won't make your PC run any better, or make it more secure, it just makes us laugh and shake our heads at you in pity.
Nice spelling/grammar there sport! Try reading the comment one more time before posting! ;)
Thats funny. I'm happily using a pc with windows xp on right now and I don't feel like I need any pity? Is there something wrong with me?
#ESat
Hey I am using a XP computer and may even get a Vista one later today and I have to say I enjoy having a lot of programs that work on my computer. Everything I buy hardware based is sure to work on Windows.
Esat I was pitying the haters like Mike, not those of you who just use PCs and don't go out of the way to hate on others. Thats 90% of the userbase, just like on Macs, the other 10% on either (or any) platform seem to be trolls.
@Mike: I've been able to run Windows on my Mac since the mid 90s in emulation/virtualization, not to mention Linux and the thousands of Mac-native Apps available, so I've never lacked for software. That USB standard all the peripherals seem to use today? Funny how the first computer to go completely standard with it was an iMac.
Glad you enjoy your PCs, what that has to do with an article about software updates to a platform you apparently don't use or like is what I don't understand. You do realize that by clicking on this article you're generating pageviews for it, which ends up as advertising revenue for Engadget, which then contributes in whatever small way to more articles about Macs? If you hate them so much, ignoring them is the best way to hurt them ;)
A Voice of Sanity....
There are no charges for updates... never has been - never will be.
There are legal reasons for the add-ons for the iPod Touch. Get a grip. You don't have to buy them!
Why not released now? It is in DELTA... DOH!!
I have it running on my dev machine and it is pretty rippen... so it should be out soon. (yes, I am a developer) ICODE
I have a question for Mikey - why are you here? Most especially since you don't pay attention to Apple Stuff... You don't have to click.
My own two cents:
I have had a few things not work on my MacPro since I installed 10.5.0 and .1 but I am an early adopter, so I don't get my knickers in a knot over it. Either go with the early adopter flow or go back to Tiger but quitcherbitchen! Geeez!
I am just here out of boredem really.
Actually, wouldn't a good enough legal reason be that sales are improved by giving the iPod Touch iPhone features, which leads to profit?
DonatoM3, well I do know about Apple, and I can tell that Apple releases software updates just as often as Microsoft's weekly updates. So in reality, the more accurate comparison is SP1 vs. 10.5.1.
Can we just clear something up? Is it only going to be bug fixes under the surface or are there going to be new features too?
Hmm, I wonder if they have new folder icons in that 450MB update of theirs. Oh, and maybe a better looking Dock and more functional Stacks?
Just don't touch Spaces. That feature is more or less perfect.
I haven't had problems so far with Leopard so for the update to be worthy I would need new features & I certainly wouldn't spit at the possibility of:
1. setting the menu bar to opaque (*)
2. setting the dock to non-3D (*)
*: without having to do command lines & modify system files.
From what I have read, there will be an option to disable the transparent menu bar. The 3D Dock appears to be staying, however.
This port on Arstechnica leads me to believe the dock might get some improvements, not sure if it's just stack related though.
I understand testing the fixes, but it seems that most of them have
been given the okay by the testers from what the article says.
Slug - while it may be cheaper than a Windows OS, the fact of
charging for a bug fix seems a tad bit of a letdown to me. If there's
a problem with your code that has left some holes or some performance
issues, its your responsibility to fix it. Furthermore, if there are
security holes and in the time between the knowledge of the fix and
the release of the fix, someone's computer is attacked and they lose
data or have critical information stolen, it can cost more than just
cash. As an added bonus, the most common form of Windows (IMO) is the upgrade version, which is priced comparatively to Leopard before you factor in these "dot releases."
@ Darak.
Apple aren't actually charging for the update. It was a pathetic joke from Mike.
I hope that you "$20" people are kidding.... Apple would never charge
for bug fixes.
*Is crossing fingers that they don't do such a stupid thing* =/