AMD's Radeon HD 3870 X2 launched, benchmarked and back in the race

Holy Teraflops gamers, AMD just launched the Radeon HD 3870 X2. Their new flagship card previously known by its R680 codename features a pair of RV670 GPUs with CrossFireX built-in to a single card. According to HotHardware's performance testing, The 3870 X2 was "usually the highest performing single-card in the group." Yes, that group includes the NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX. Here's the rub though, according to HotHardWare: the X2's performance is determined by how well the card's drivers scale in a particular game -- a new game without appropriate support renders the card's performance to that of a single-GPU HD 3870. A problem initially demonstrated during their Crysis testing and later solved with a new set of AMD drivers. Still, as PCPer sums-up, the ~$449 3870 X2 meets or beats NVIDIA's best in today's most demanding DX9 and DX10 titles and should be on your "short list" if searching for the ultimate performance graphics card.

Read -- PC Perspective
Read -- Hot Hardware
Read -- Press Release

[problemchoi @ Jan 28th 2008 2:02AM]

isn't nvidia going to come out w/ its geforce 9xxx series soon? thats what i heard... and plus if ati JUST came out w/ a card that meets or slightly beats a year old card... doesn't that mean that they're still behind?

[David @ Jan 28th 2008 2:22AM]

dude... just enjoy the fact that AMD has finally released something new back on the market

[Cash @ Jan 28th 2008 3:44AM]

Wait.... so this card was released *after* the 8800GTX, but the best it can do is *tie* it?

What part of all this am I supposed to get excited about exactly?

[Zeus.:God @ Jan 28th 2008 4:13AM]

The part you're supposed to be excited about is that AMD/ATI has been behind as of late, and are finally getting the means to produce a competitive card.

Now all it needs is more efficient drivers and it will dominate the Ultra and GTX.

[Iain @ Jan 28th 2008 5:12AM]

But the problem Zeus is that it isn't really a competitive card as Nvidia aren't far off releasing a new range of high-end cards which will (well, should) be even better than the current ones.
Plus, IIRC, Nvidia are also developing their own 2-in-1 card, so whilst ATI/AMD may have matched them temporarily, to say that they're being competitive is a little short-sighted - it's not looking at the big picture, if that makes any sense.

[Ebzy @ Jan 28th 2008 5:58AM]

You are making logical points however you are forgetting that it is significantly cheaper than the nv equivalents - especially the ultra.

[E71 @ Jan 28th 2008 9:13AM]

A little off-topic but I think it's disgusting how game developers write such highspec-demanding games. I mean, if the latest graphics cards in the market can't play it at a smooth 100fps -- what's the point?

It's getting to the ridiculous stage where they care less about the gameplay/creativity/originality and more about trying to WOW us for five seconds with fancy graphics.

Look at half-life... Valve software developed it in a way to perform well on even lesser-spec machines and they plenty of awards and were unrivaled for years. I wish other developers could follow Valve's example.

[Ken @ Jan 28th 2008 9:39AM]

Crossfire is superior to SLI. This is why ATI/AMD was able to get the dual GPU card out earlier. Expect the 9xxx series to prone to issues.

As always, ATI's issues are in the software support. It's been getting better since the acquisition, but still not good enough to fully compete.

[Ty @ Jan 28th 2008 1:20PM]

New Radeon: $449 (total price for two cards)
nVidia 8800GTX: $469
nVidia 8800 Ultra: $689

Just wanted to throw that down before I comment. People should keep in mind that, as the posters above me pointed out, ATI is besting the performance of the 8800Ultra [in some games] by using two cards in a Crossfire setup. This is probably insignificant to some people, but to me, purchasing a setup like this would corner me in to spending more money later to upgrade. For example, right now I have an 8800GTX that I bought a year ago. If I decided tomorrow that I really, really have to play Crysis, I could go on to Newegg and buy another 8800GTX, throw it in my second PCI Express slot, and I'm good to go. Oh, and it would be way faster than the new Radeon SLI setup. Conversely, if I were building a new PC and didn't already have an 8800GTX, I would buy an 8800Ultra to have the ability to do an actual high-fps SLI configuration later. Games like Crysis prove that game makers are going to start pushing hardware requirements again in 2008 and 2009. If you're a gamer you're looking for a card that doesn't just kinda run a game. You're looking for a card that runs all games really, really well. I'm very underwhelmed by this offering from AMD/ATI.

I see them gaining some share in the affordable performance graphics market but not so much in the gaming market. AMD/ATI has been out of the game too long and nVidia has taken a lot of customers away from them (myself included). I'm just not wowed that they took a year and a half to produce a card that you need TWO of to meet the performance of a card I bought a year ago, made one hand a half years ago. Though it would be nice if this pushed nVidia-based-manufacturers to lower their prices.

[Ty @ Jan 28th 2008 1:32PM]

Oooops didn't realize that both GPU's are on the same card. Still underwhelmed. Unless some nVidia exec has sex with my mother or something, I'm not switching.

[OddManOut @ Jan 28th 2008 2:33AM]

Nice. Now make with the 'Fusion' and give us some REAL competition in the CPU realm. You hear me AMD ??!?!?


Heehee, mock anger aside it's a good sign. If things are looking up on the GPU side for A(TI)MD, maybe some good times are ahead on the CPU side as well. And before I'm denounced as an idiot (which is probably true anyway) I realize that from a technological perspective developments in their GPU efforts have nothing to with and mean nothing on their CPU front. It's just a little positive thinking...

[Juaquin @ Jan 28th 2008 2:04AM]

Good to hear that AMD (ATI RIP) is making up some ground. Competition is always a good thing for the consumer.

[Eh @ Jan 28th 2008 2:21AM]

So basically it costs the same as an 8800 GTX but you have to wait until they release a new driver for each game before its as fast as an 8800 GTX? Where's the nearest toilet, I need to get rid of a few hundred dollars.

[Zeus.:God @ Jan 28th 2008 3:18AM]

Uh, it performs pretty much on par with the ULTRA. It costs the same as a GTX. You're getting Ultra performance at GTX price. Thats a pretty good deal. Once they make their drivers more efficient then they will get going. All thats holding these cards back from dominating, is the drivers.

[Eh @ Jan 28th 2008 4:18AM]

The Ultra creams it in a lot of tests. The GTX benchmarks are in the hothardware link, it performs relatively the same as the GTX, maybe a little faster on average. I would never rely on ATI to release a new driver for every single game on release day, its asking too much and simply wont happen. I would much rather deal with a 2-3fps loss and go with a GTX which doesnt need special drivers for every game ever made. 3870 X2 users will probably be waiting weeks after a game's release date just for updated drivers, assuming they actually plan on supporting every game.

[Zeus.:God @ Jan 28th 2008 2:50AM]

GO AMD! SHOW NVIDIA WHAT YOU'RE MADE OF!!!

I'm an Nvidia guy, but come on, we need the competition.

[Ted @ Jan 28th 2008 12:26PM]

Hey Zeus, sorry to hijack your post but you seem knowledgeable... I've got a 8800 GTX at the moment, do you think I'd be better off just getting a second GTX for SLi instead of buying the AMD x2?

[Ty @ Jan 28th 2008 1:30PM]

Yes.

[Zeus.:God @ Jan 29th 2008 12:25AM]

Get the second GTX. I'm rootin' for ATI/AMD, but they're still getting their act together. The GTX is the solid route at the moment.

[Bob-o @ Jan 28th 2008 3:01AM]

So it takes 2 GPUs to do what nVidia does with 1? Lemme guess, AMD is gonna sell 'em at a loss just to compete, and 5 years down the road while looking for potential buyouts...look back and say hmm, that wasn't the smartest of all decisions.

[Brennan @ Jan 28th 2008 3:03AM]

im computer is so turned on about this. I hope to plz it soon when i get the money.

[Carl Vitullo @ Jan 28th 2008 9:02PM]

what?

[Tom @ Jan 28th 2008 9:01AM]

Just about a YEAR too late AMD/ATI.

[Christian Torkelson @ Jan 28th 2008 3:20AM]

and now nvidia has their excuse to drop the 9 series... woot!

[- @ Jan 28th 2008 3:46AM]

All you people waiting for Nvidia to drop the nine series GPU's might be forgetting that the r700 is said to be 40 - 60 percent faster than the HD3870's and that it will be multi core. I'll pass on the nine series and the 3000 series to take a look at the battle between the r700 and the g100. That also goes for processors skip Penryn and wait for Nehalem

[Poonanny @ Jan 28th 2008 5:25AM]

Yea right - that's as real as the optical drive in the macbook air...

[sergiulucian @ Jan 28th 2008 7:17AM]

Competition is good for the consumer but this isn´t competition by a long shot. I used to be an ATI fan, back when the 9600 and the X1800 really gave their rivales a run for their money. Idk what happened to AMD and ATI, i´m refering to the period before the merger, that´s when they started to decline.

[d0h @ Jan 28th 2008 8:53AM]

The part that you guys are missing is that these cards outpreform a 8800x2 SLI setup on ONE CARD. Crossfirex2 and these things will rape anything on the market.

[Ty @ Jan 28th 2008 1:38PM]

No it doesn't... It's a dual-GPU card and they are single GPU cards, and the comparisons are card-on-card.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_radeon_hd_3870_x2_performance/

"With an MSRP of $449, the Radeon HD 3870 X2 is a tempting alternative to the GeForce 8800 GTX and Ultra if you find yourself playing a lot of DX9 apps like Call of Duty 4. In these apps, the Radeon HD 3870 X2 is unquestionably the fastest card on the market right now. But if you’re currently playing a mixture of DX9 and DX10 games, you may want to opt for one of the GeForce 8 cards, or wait and see how AMD’s DX10 driver matures."

Sorry but I waved goodbye to the days of waiting for new Catalyst drivers for support for some new game like two years ago.

[Husar @ Jan 28th 2008 9:16AM]

Hmm it outperforms th ultra in many games according to tomshardware http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/01/28/ati_r680_the_rage_fury_maxx_2/index.html
and at almost half the price of the ultra, i would be sold if i was planning to upgrade my computer...

[qtip @ Jan 28th 2008 10:06AM]

Actually, according to HardOCP most of the 3870X2 reviews are using canned in game benchmarks/cut-scenes and not real world gaming. The 3870X2 barely matches (and sometimes loses) to the 8800GTX in real world testing.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ1NCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

[Carl Vitullo @ Jan 28th 2008 9:04PM]

but, it is still $240 less. so being beaten a little is not bad for the price difference.

[Ken @ Jan 28th 2008 9:42AM]

"I would much rather deal with a 2-3fps loss and go with a GTX which doesnt need special drivers for every game ever made."

It's called "optimization" and you nVidia card drivers are most certainly optimized for specific titles. Perhaps you're too young to remember the debacle about nVidia optimizing drivers for benchmark programs?

[wrabbit @ Jan 28th 2008 9:59AM]

I am glad to see ATI finally come out with something that at least for a moment makes me look their way. I hope that they can keep it up and give NVidia a real run for their money again. Unfortunately though, this card ain't it - it came out about a year after the GTX and is only moderately faster. Not to mention, that it's really two crossfired cards on one board. In other words, all nvidia needs to do to beat it is do the same thing using the GTX chip - and probably the reason they didn't do this is exactly the driver issue ATI is having with this card.

Having said all that, if this card boosts ATI's profits and confidence, and results in even better chips down the road then all the power to them.

Now, can AMD please get their act together and release something that would give Intel a run for its money? :)

[Me @ Jan 28th 2008 11:09AM]

I agree with Bob-O. A lot of you guys are missing the point. AMD is using a Crossfire setup to beat a single 8800. So after all is said and done they would need 4 GPU's in a quad setup to beat 2 8800's in a SLI setup, and as soon as the 9xxx series drops all this will mean nothing.

[texaslabrat @ Jan 28th 2008 6:44PM]

And I'll say that a lot of you are missing another point. Yes, Nvidia could theoretically wipe the floor with the 3870 x2 by putting 2 GTX chips on a single PCB. But at what price? The 3870x2 is already cheaper than a single GTX board. Putting 2 GTX chips on a board would cost like $1000 if the price was linear. We're talking price/peformance here...and AMD is winning hands-down with this product. You're absolutely right that it would take 4 of the ati gpus to beat an SLI GTX. But that 4-gpu solution would almost certainly be significantly cheaper while at the same time being as fast or faster in most major titles.

Until Nvidia comes up with a 1) cheaper card that 2) performs better than the 3870x2 on the majority of the "it" games...I'm not sure what your point is, really.

[me @ Jan 28th 2008 7:40PM]

The whole point of a new generation of cards is to bring better performance at the same price point for example 8800gt (G92) now knowing that Nvidia hasnt revamped the GTX or Ultra yet...they wont due to 9xxx but if they had they would be at a better pricepoint as well. Thats why the 8800gt heralded such praise because after revamping to the new die, better performance was achieved at a very good pricepoint apply that same process on a GTX or Ultra then you have the X2 beat once again.

[texaslabrat @ Jan 29th 2008 1:02PM]

"but if they had they would be at a better pricepoint as well"
"apply that same process on a GTX or Ultra then you have the X2 beat once again"

Absolutely true. Unfortunately, that's all theory and the results we have today in the real world show that the 3870x2 wins in the price/performance bracket hands-down. Will Nvidia respond and re-take the crown? Probably. But here today...they have not. So again...I don't really understand your point as it pertains to reality versus a theoretical exercise. People buy what's on the shelves, not what's in some engineer's head.

[doniel @ Jan 28th 2008 11:27AM]

1st of all, I'm not a fanboy of either side. But I have to wonder: How can one say this is a good card when it needs two cores to beat the single-core opponent, barely?

[Ty @ Jan 28th 2008 1:41PM]

I don't see why it matters when those cores are on one card.

[doniel @ Jan 28th 2008 3:22PM]

why doesn't it? Just imagine when Nvidia comes up with their own dual-core board with the 8800 to level up the fairness of the game.

[texaslabrat @ Jan 29th 2008 11:50AM]

You can say it because even if it "barely" beats the single-gpu card..it does so at a lower price. Winning is winning...whether by an inch or a mile. This is a comparison of the card as a whole, not the individual components.

[collin @ Jan 28th 2008 6:48PM]

did you see that labtop its like the size of my weiner supa small

[kash @ Jan 28th 2008 8:03PM]

you know what i dont get... i have a x700 ATI 128MB... and it can run crysis just fine... i have no clue what all the fuss is about....

[Razgriz @ Jan 28th 2008 10:09PM]

In all honesty, I'm surprised by a) the narrow-mindedness/ignorance of some of the users and the blatant partiality in favor of Nvidia. Granted AMD made a mistake by acquiring ATI and things have been less than peachy for the company/ies recently, but when you look at ATI's history, they have rarely competed with Nvidia on the high-end scale. Most of ATI's products are in the middle-end price range and are usually meant to compete with Nvidia's middle-end products. For ATI to even create a card that can compete with an Nvidia high end one is an achievement in itself as it proves that the company is indeed progressing. That being said, granted an 8800Ultra is better than the HD 3870X2 but when you look at the price/performance ratio, at this point, the 3870x2 does seem to offer a better deal. The product isn't meant to try and win over Nvidia's consumer market as it would be ludicrous for 8800GT/GTX/Ultra owners to switch across to ATI's product as they've got enough invested. This is merely offering an alternative for those users that are interested in upgrading their systems and are looking for both performance and affordability. It's also directed towards those gamers that use specific motherboards that are CrossfireX certified so they have something that is at least comparable to the Green Camp's 8800 SLI configurations. That being said, ATI is not attempting to steal Nvidia's crown, but merely establishing its presence as a producer of higher-end graphics cards. On top of that, you must also realize that to be able to best Nvidia's flagship cards is also a large step for the company, even if it DOES mean incorporating two cores onto a single die/board.

For the Nvidia 'fanboys' (and I use this term rather loosely), the main reason Nvidia's going to delay the 9xxx isn't because of a lack of competition but because they would like to perfect their drivers before releasing their products (for the record: this is where ATI needs to take notes). Nvidia's products tend to be better developed and more refined than ATI's off the bat because of better testing. This is also a trend present in the Intel/AMD conflict where AMD's products are rarely perfected and often patched on a regular basis. That being said, if Nvidia COULD create a product that would run two cores on one board, I am pretty sure it would already be in the works. As mentioned before, Nvidia's remains atop because it's using a surefire formula that has been proven to work. Drivers are a major issue with multiple cores and rather than muddy their hands in such quagmire, Nvidia finds it more efficient and profitable to work with single core products that dominate the market.

Having said that, ATI deserves some commendation due to the fact that they have indeed stepped up their game, especially since the dreadful AMD/ATI merger, and have decided to risk driver problems in order to advance technology.

If you own an 8800 card and plan to go SLI, all power to you, but if you're looking to upgrade and actually want to try an investment in ATI's market, the HD 3870X2 offers (on paper at least), a superb performance, although with it comes the risk of troublesome drivers.

It all depends on how you slice it, CrossfireX vs. SLI. I don't deny that Nvidia's got the upper hand at the moment and conditions for change don't seem to be on the horizon, however ATI has announced that it's "high end" card/s will be released sometime in h1 of 2009. Hopefully by q2/3 of this year (2008), ATI will be able to better develop their drivers and reward those people that have invested in their products.

Having said that, I am surprised that you people are so skeptical of ATI's new products as it's the people that actually buy these devices that make it possible for you to enjoy your Nvidia products. Think about it, if ATI didn't threaten Nvidia with its developments, Nvidia would have carte blanche to act as a monopoly in the gfx industry. ATI's made a good card for once, proving that it's pulling itself out of the rut that it's in, instead of downplaying it, and making normative claims, appreciate what's being done. That being said, personally you people disgust me.

[Tony @ Jan 28th 2008 10:54PM]

@WALLOFTEXT

Surely you can think of a better way to write a comment? This is not a place for you to practice your class essays.

[Razgriz @ Jan 28th 2008 11:12PM]

Surely you can think of a better way to comment on a comment? This is not a place for you to practice your sarcasm...

And why the assumption regarding the practice of class essays?

[texaslabrat @ Jan 29th 2008 12:04PM]

I thought your "wall of text" was a very well thought-out and informative comment (and quite readable, and thus undeserving of the wall-of-text label)...irrespective of Tony's disdain for polysyllabic words. It's refreshing to find insightful comments after wading through pages of "my epeen's bigger than yours!" that have become the norm on the internet as a whole.

[Norb @ Jan 29th 2008 11:25AM]

Most of you guys are WRONG. This graph is biased. The 3870 X2 Beats the ultra in SLI mode 8/10 times. Look around for some other reviews. Whoever made this is pulling your leg. Face it nVidia fanboys, ATI won this round, just suck it up like a man.

[Cyborg009 @ Feb 10th 2008 2:48AM]

i m no rich man yet... but a gamer for sure...
AMD ATI nailed it down finally...
i think by working on drivers, much more better performance will come out of tht chip...
maintaining the performance to price ratio as AMD always did.. i m glad tht a good competition will definitely benefit the us ...