Zune user files suit against Microsoft over alleged ear damage

According to Zune user Joel Geddis, way back in 2006 his first gen player spontaneously reset and blasted an ear-shattering noise through the earbuds, resulting in permanent "fluid leakage from [his] ear canal, impaired hearing, and incessant ringing and discomfort." Sound like the stuff of a lawsuit? That'd be correct. Like many others, Joel is beating the war drum in an attempt to raise some awareness of his pending product liability and personal injury suit against Toshiba (who made the first Zune's hardware) and Microsoft. See, this is why we warn people to put in ear-plugs before putting on their headphones -- otherwise you might damage your hearing.

[Japanesegorilla @ Feb 2nd 2008 12:58PM]

Douche

[Argot @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:04PM]

Okey, what's up the picture?

[Reader @ Feb 3rd 2008 3:12AM]

I have no idea... but it reminds me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[CharlieX @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:07PM]

If it really did reset and the unit blasted out at full volume unexpectedly - you might have a case.

[Ignatius @ Feb 2nd 2008 3:00PM]

I was thinking the same thing. I read the title, got irritated at how stupid that sounded... then read what happened.

That had to suck.

[aguiluz @ Feb 2nd 2008 7:17PM]

Oh, it's microsoft after all.

And you know what? It should have a safety feature not to reset at full volume. Sounds like something stupid with the firmware.

[JayMonster @ Feb 4th 2008 9:15AM]

Of course the problem with the scenario described is that when a Zune "resets" to defaults, that default is 50% volume (or a "10" on the 20 points of volume.

And of course, I would love to know what headphones, Einstein there was wearing, because, while yes, even if this scenario somehow happened, and yes it can be quite loud, how long did he continue to play it at that volume to cause a situation that caused "fluid-leakage."

"Joel is beating the war drum in an attempt to raise some awareness of his pending product liability and personal injury suit against Toshiba (who made the first Zune's hardware) and Microsoft"

Sounds to me more like somebody who is trying to make a few bucks on interviews and such, while hoping for a "settlement" with Toshiba and Microsoft.

[Bender Bending Rodriguez @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:07PM]

This lawsuit is actually presented in a way that sounds legit.

[SimonRichards @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:09PM]

@JapaneseGorilla

Youre the douche, if it reset and blasted his ears then microsoft is accountable. This seems like good use of the legal system, more than cam be said for the golddiggers out there.

[Parth Patel @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:10PM]

go for it, an actual worthy lawsuit

[ByronGman @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:12PM]

This sounds legitimate to me, at least compared to some of the lawsuits nowadays...

Of course, I would think that problems like this aren't just limited to the Zune, just about any PMP could be defective and do something of this nature.

[Carl @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:12PM]

If it reset then it would have not played anything at start up. I think hes full of it.

[derX @ Feb 2nd 2008 10:04PM]

I'm not sure why Carl's comment is low ranked. Anyone who owns a first generation Zune knows that anytime a Zune resets itself, there is no music playing.

And, seriously, to all those Zune owners, when has your Zune even been nearly *that* loud? One time I accidently had my Zune off of hold and the volume button was accidently pressed all the way up to 20 from like 5 or 6 in a very, very short timespan--certainly not enough to allow adaptation to the considerably louder noise--and it wasn't *that* loud, though very annoying.
*loudly yells* And my hearing is perfect.
--*someone whispers*
*loudly yells* What?
--You're yelling.
*loudly yells* Oh....perhaps not so perfect after all...

[Reader @ Feb 3rd 2008 3:11AM]

Assuming that the volume levels are the same on my Gigabeat as the Zune, I agreed with you derX. A time or two I have pushed play after forgetting I just had the speakers plugged in at full blast; sure it caused some irritation, but no where near what this guy is experiencing. Of course if his ears were already bad/sensitive it's possible, but screaming at a football game is louder than most DAPs on max volume.

The title is a little misleading. I was all ready to post a comment on how much of a douche the suit filer was, but after reading he has a good case if this did actually happen. I sure as hell would sue if my hearing got permanently damaged because of their product.

[monkfishbandana @ Feb 3rd 2008 6:28AM]

He doesn't say it played music, he says it played a noise at reset. This is entirely plausible.

When you turn off an amplifier at home, you hear a small pop when it turns off - this is due to a voltage surge. When my iPod restarts it makes a very quiet pop as well - also from a small voltage surge.

Now, if there was a glitch in the Zune, or if it just 'popped' louder than usual, then this guy's got a case.

[monkfishbandana @ Feb 3rd 2008 6:29AM]

He doesn't say it played music, he says it played a noise at reset. This is entirely plausible.

When you turn off an amplifier at home, you hear a small pop when it turns off - this is due to a voltage surge. When my iPod restarts it makes a very quiet pop as well - also from a small voltage surge.

Now, if there was a glitch in the Zune, or if it just 'popped' louder than usual, then this guy's got a case.

[Sam Winter @ Mar 7th 2008 3:50PM]

Are you completely dense? You have no idea what happened. It's unbelievably ignorant to just assume
this is a sham lawsuit because you've never had something like this happen upon reset of the player.
The default, INTENDED behavior of a Zune player after reset is totally irrelevant; obviously in this case the player's hardware or software malfunctioned and sent some terrible feedback noise into his earbuds.

more armchair analysts....

[soviet_vexxer @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:12PM]

i wonder if he changed the volume as it shut off. idk how a zune's volume works but i know i've blasted myself before.

[computer.dude.28 @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:07PM]

I always end up cranking the volume on the Zune when I hook it up to speakers or a stereo, and then later I plug in my headphones and I forget..

[Markus @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:15PM]

@Argot

It's a teaser from the Zune website before its release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y1CtgYD0t8

[TomTom2007 @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:25PM]

I call bull...
The default volume of Zune is 7 (range from 1 - 20, 20 being the loudest), doesn't matter if you reset it, reboot it, or turn it on for the first time, the default volume value is 7. And it is nowhere loud to the point of damaging your hearing...

[david @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:32PM]

If this happened once, and caused unrepairable ear damage, I can under stand. However, if this guy did this over and over again, then I would have a hard time feeling sorry for this guy.

Common sense > stupidity, in the real world

Common sense

[John @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:33PM]

@TomTom

Well, technically it depends on what headphones you're using. With low impedance IEMs, you can get a very loud sound off of a very low volume setting. Of course, you'd expect that, especially as the Zune is a very good source component, so...

[Jared @ Feb 2nd 2008 3:09PM]

Then file a lawsuit against the manufacturer of the headphones not beloved Microsoft

[John @ Feb 2nd 2008 8:34PM]

Low impedance is not a bad thing - it is in fact better, because then it takes less power to effectively drive your headphones. The issue here is that the player - allegedly - arbitrarily increased the volume. The headphone choice may have made the effect more serious, but the origin of the problem would still have been the player. I'm still skeptical of how serious the volume reset could be, but it's not like it's impossible either.

[Chris @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:33PM]

@TomTom2007

I was just thinking that. I can't imagine any player on the market actually being able to go up that loud as he said it did. Of course...there's always that slight chance it could have been a fluke.

[Blake Bowen @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:35PM]

Actually, this same thing happened to me. Didn't cause any permanent damage, but I almost fell down my stairs.

[Blaktornado @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:37PM]

"See, this is why we warn people to put in ear-plugs before putting on their headphones -- otherwise you might damage your hearing"

I've never seen any writer on Engadget say that before and I've been reading this blog for a considerably long time >.>


Seriously, though, you shouldn't put your headphone/earbuds in before you start playing music because if it IS too loud, this happens... It's less trouble to restart a song than lose your hearing.

[MinceyFresh @ Feb 2nd 2008 4:49PM]

Why was this ranked low? I read Engadget fairly regularly and don't specifically remember the issue of using hearing protection underneath headphones being stressed here (does anyone actually do that outside of maybe club DJs?).

Don't get me wrong, I do love this blog and all of its various DAP coverage, though. :)

[MinceyFresh @ Feb 2nd 2008 4:51PM]

Oh, it was sarcasm? Heh, whoops. Hey, ease up, it's a Saturday and I'm still half asleep!

[LethalPhoenix @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:38PM]

didnt the media cover a story behind Apple's iPod? and it's danger to your ear? oh yeah
nevermind, douche bag.

[letstakeawalk @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:53PM]

@Blaktornado

I know when you have to explain humor, it dies a little.


Is anyone else having problems with the "reply" button? I get sent to another page, but without a comment box...

[computer.dude.28 @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:11PM]

Click on the date of a comment, and then click reply on the following page.

[Chris McDowell @ Feb 2nd 2008 1:55PM]

@ Blaktornado
It all just kinda went...WOOSH right on over your head hu? It's ok.

[Sam Zebian @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:02PM]

This lawsuit will not hold up in court. The Zune's earbuds that are included say "Warning- Loud Music may Damage your Ears." Also, the Zune doesn't emit loud noises when reset, it defaults the volume at 7 and doesn't start playing anything automatically. Unless he was listening to a song, paused it and put it on hold for later, then started playing the song when he turned it on again, well, then that's his own damn fault.

[Notung @ Feb 3rd 2008 8:13AM]

Only if they could reproduce that in a testing environment with the guy's device or others from the same firmware version

Yeah, I remember the same thing with first gens iPods, that is why they have that volume limit and the unbearable low maximum volume with standard earphones.

[mmh @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:03PM]

@letstakeawalk

Yes the reply function is broken.

[computer.dude.28 @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:11PM]

Click on the date of a comment, and then click reply on the following page.

[mmh @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:13PM]

Okay, nice workaround, but life should be easier.

[letstakeawalk @ Feb 2nd 2008 7:13PM]

Ah. Thanks!

[mmh @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:11PM]

On the reply issue, just a thought, could it have anything to do with this: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/31/reacts-guitar-hero-pedals-mean-youre-potentially-taking-this-t/#comments

[mike @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:16PM]

This sounds very familiar. I remember someone suing Apple for a very similar reason, and Apple releasing firmware to limit the volume on iPods.

Did that guy win? I can't remember.

[PynkFloydd @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:26PM]

I wonder if he's related to another guy on the Zune forum...
http://forums.zune.net/108363/ShowPost.aspx

Someone posted a nice table of how long and what decibel it would take to cause hearing damage.
85 db
8 hours
88 dB
4 hours The Zune is Rated here 88-89 dB
91 db
2 hours
94 db
1 hour Hairdryer ,City Bus
97 db
30 minutes
100 db
15 minutes
103 db
7.5 minutes
106 dB
3.75 min (< 4min)
109 dB
1.875 min (< 2min)
112 dB
.9375 min (~1 min)
115 dB
.46875 min (~30 sec) Concert, Leaf blower Small Fireworks This would mean your standing right next to the concert speakers.

I was in the military and fired a few AT-4's in my day. (Rocket propelled 84mm anti tank round.) There's a regulation as to how many you can fire per day because they can give the user a concussion (yes, from the sound pressure). When I was new, my sergeant wanted to make sure I did it right and kneeled next to me while I shot it off of my shoulder. He fell down like Wile E Coyote and get a loose tooth knocked out. Neither one of us had permanent hearing damage...

[Mark @ Feb 2nd 2008 2:27PM]

@everyone who's talking about default volume: If he played a song and it was really loud then microsoft isn't liable. HOWEVER, there is an issue with static electricity resetting the zune that DOES make a very loud noise(think of that sound that happens when a microphone is too close to the speaker). If that's what this guy is talking about then it's legit.

[martin @ Feb 2nd 2008 3:16PM]

if it had been an ipod it would have blown his brains out.

yeah i'm a fanboy btw. they're better cause they're louder. (jokesies)

[Chris Aubeck @ Feb 2nd 2008 3:30PM]

"Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam..."

- Monty Python

[bartoron @ Feb 2nd 2008 3:46PM]

Mark does bring up a good point. He could have raised the volume of a particular song before he put it on his Zune so that he would be able to hear it fine at volume level 1, so if it really did reset and the song started playing again, it would be incredibly loud. Still, I don't see how a second or two of an incredibly loud sound could cause permanent ear damage, unless he had a recording of a space shuttle launch on his Zune.

[eyurasian_destiny @ Feb 2nd 2008 4:50PM]

Id have to admit my old ipod when it locked up playing music sometimes would emit a horrific squeal but I only ever used it with speakers so I always just unplugged it and rebooted it

[Steffen Jobbs @ Feb 2nd 2008 4:55PM]

I don't really care either way. I just want to be in on the poke-fun-at-a-Zune article.

Using a Zune will cause permanent ear damage, so Microsoft should recall all 5,000 of them that were sold and give those users iPods instead.
That would never happen to an iPod user because they're made by Apple and Apple can do no wrong.

I've had my say......Haa-ha.

[Ranger @ Feb 2nd 2008 4:59PM]

w/e