Microsoft looking to bring Surface home sooner
By Nilay Patel 
posted Feb 5th 2008 2:34AM
posted Feb 5th 2008 2:34AM
[Via The Raw Feed]
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And the compelling need for this at home is what exactly?
Higher margins, profits?
Why wouldn't you want one ? Its seriously cool. What it also needs is the ability to scan in documents and let you scatter/sort them/edit them on the 'surface', plus the same for emails.
I would gladly pay for one of these in my home.
Can you imagine playing a RTS on one of these. Man that would totally change the way those types of games were played.
I'd rather have mine in a flat screen LCD mounted horizontally than this crap with under-mounted cameras and a huge base.
Yeah, I see your point. I mean, this is a great concept for an interface. But still this whole "the-table-is-my-computer" would have to serve us with everything else we're doing already today.
"Why wouldn't you want one ? Its seriously cool. What it also needs is the ability to scan in documents and let you scatter/sort them/edit them on the 'surface', plus the same for emails.
I would gladly pay for one of these in my home."
So you'd pay thousands of dollars so that you could be hunched over a table all day scanning and sorting your document on a horizontal table. I'd love to be your chiropractor. C'mon people! Yeah it's interesting technology, but this is soooo typically Microsoft. Invent something first and then try to force-fit it into an application.
Timmahh:
Actually, Microsoft's biggest problem is not their development, it's their marketing. While everyone applauds Apple for their development, it is actually their marketing where they excel. Their marketing drives their development. They find out what people want, then make a great device that hsa some innovation and deliver.
Microsoft develops innovative products, but seems very bad at finding the market for their products. Tablet PCs are a perfect example of that. Everyone I know (including myself) who uses a tablet would never go without one again. But Microsoft just hasn't found a way to market Tablets for mass appeal.
The surface computer is another perfect example. Commercial uses aside, this device has huge potential to revolutionize the way you interact with your home network. But Microsoft is failing to market it properly. To be truthful, I'm not even sure what approach they could take. It has a wide range of uses, but all of them are completely different than people traditional view using a computer. Most "killer apps" take something that everyone is already doing and making it much easier (see all Apple products). But we aren't talking about that with the surface computer.
Now you are trying to sell the mass market on doing things they never thought of doing in the first place! Not an easy sell.
The best part is that despite Microsoft's marketing problems, third party application writers will come in and solve te problem. They will fill the nitches and exploit the surface computer for all its power.
Microsoft's philosophy can be summed up in a great quote from a great movie:
Scientist 1: "Yea, but what is it used for?"
Scientist 2: "I don't care. That's for the engineers to figure out."
That's like saying "Who would want an iPhone?" since the principle is similar. I like this concept and I personally would love a computer with a 17-inch LCD that I could manipulate with my hands. The potential for graphic design and games is wide open here.
Reminds me of the computer in Minority Report.
No I don't think so. There was already a well-established smartphone market. iPhone did a better job of integration of some features and presented a new novel way to access existing demanded functionality. Currently there is no such demand for a "smart table" outside of military and certain business applications.
^ Yeah, according to you. Whose to say if Apple said, "We're going to make a touch phone screen" 3 years ago that people wouldn't have said "But we already have those, Big F'n Deal."? Just cuz you don't see a use for it doesn't mean it won't be appealing to OTHERS.
You're missing the point. Apple created the iPhone in response to an observed existing demand and a market need. Microsoft is trying to push Surface into the home where there's no clear demand or need for it in the home (or if there is, it's a very niche market like home automation control.) They tried to do the same thing with Origami and it didn't really take off. Why? Because most people buy things to do something for them that otherwise would not have been easily doable by other means. Most people don't buy things for the sake of coolness. This concept seems to be lost on Microsoft as they keep making the same mistakes.
"work on a consumer version has been sped up."
Speeding up= broken OS and/or stupid price
Microsoft, why don't you learn from vista?!
I'd love to have one of these, but it seems more like a luxury flashy item. Still this tech would be interesting in different forms. Maybe an inclined work desk.
Vista was released too quickly? you don't say... :p
See: http://www.apple.com/macbookair/
Vista is fine. Ground breaking? No, but it's for the most part works well with the majority of computers.
We've seen the future of computing, and it's a big ass table...
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1764368
(Illustrates very well how really silly this is for the home IMHO...)
Why are engadget talking with pessimism about this thing. It's great! ... I mean how many movies have we seen with cool futuristic gadgets with tables like computers when they're looking up slides and graphics and what not ... this is the start of it .. it's big right now, but it's a table!!! and a table IS big!
cheers
Agreed! This thing is very cool. There's a trend right now where everything has to fit in your pocket. But in truth, people spend a lot of time in their homes, and I for one would LOVE to have this in my home.
I'd love one as well. :) I'm not sure what I'd do with it though... from what I've seen it can communicate with phones and for sorting photos? I'm not much of a photo person.. but hopefully they think up some other cool apps. :)
Me too, I always wanted to have a blue table :-)
I like it too, but the problem to integrate it in my home would be the power cord. It would be visible as I don't have a power outlet in the floor...
has anyone watched csi newyork. they have something like it. (better than).
just for a specific show ref.
Putting an outlet in the floor is actually really easy. And if you want it on the first floor and you have a basement (even finished), it is really easy.
I just don't get it... sure it's flashy and has multi touch, but what use does it have?
You couldn't do any real computing on it, media is better suited for the TV and being hunched over this thing for more than a minute or two is bound to be quite uncomfortable... so what does this leave?
You missed :)
If your working off that logic, why the iPhone or the iPod Touch?
"""See: http://www.apple.com/macbookair/"""
WTF does that have to do with anything?
Nice, more replies that go to the completely wrong post.
As someone commented on the "other" site, go visit TED and check out Han's work. It's absolutely amazing and has inspired everything from the iPhone to the Surface. You could read why MS is doing this, but then you'd have to read. That would be a downer.
@Len: good question. I believe it's due to a combination of apple fanboys and rabid anti-anything MS'ers overcoming an appreciation for new forms of digital content manipulation and delivery. After all the hyperbole surrounding multi-touch devices ... if it's not Apple- for some people it just can't (do you hear me?), it just can't be good.
T_T . Endgadget hates me.
@ cresentdavid - good thoughts
My first interest was Minority Report and the research that went into the development of that movie - as you know from TED - it was a movie of what it WILL be like in 50 years into the future if we continue technological development at the rate we are going. It was not the regular sci-fi flick about impossible dreams - it was based upon actual RD&D going on all over the world - public and private.
I am an admitted AAPL fan boy and I see that the potential is way beyond any one companies scope of vision. I do feel, however, that Ballmer's epiphany is based upon the market numbers for the iPhone and the iPod touch AND THEN all of the knock offs that are taking place. Inspiration by perspiration can still bring about real innovation - if (BIG if) the powers on the top floor let the folks in the lab have enough rope to ALMOST sink the ship. That is the W.L. Gore philosophy - knida.
Thanks for clear and cogent remarks.
Cheers!
This device is utterly useless. As useless as the main argument for buying a mac for 2000$, "But it's great with music, pictures and movies n' stuff", give me a break. You want to buy a freakin' computer table, that allows you to resize your pictures with your fingers? You want to buy a computer table that lets your organize your home media? This device is pointless.
dude was that sarcasm?
This is exactly why I (and a few other) admire Apple and dislike companies like MS. All of them just talk, show us cool demos and stuff but Apple DELIVERS. MS is already bragging bout the "Surface". Get it out first. Then brag. I`ll be interested once they come out with the actual stuff. Not just demos, and prototypes. Until then please shut up, stop wasting time and try and fix vista if you have nothing else to do.
Maybe Apple should deliver a 3G iPhone?
Agree. Most giant electronic gizmos companies still don't get that "it's the interface, stupid" concept. Look what LG, Motorola or even Sony design on their products: complicated and dfficult to understand UI. Though we have to give MS credit for this concept ***IF*** they deliver what they're promising.
STARCRAFT II and all RTS are perfect for this surface!!
Now that might sound like a good idea, but think about it carefully.
I don't know about you but I find use of keyboard shortcuts for building/controlling units in RTS games almost essential when up against a worthy opponent.
And imagine how bad your back is going to feel after being hunched over it for hours staring at the floor instead of a monitor at eye level.
to w00t
advantage of using Surface in RTS games like STARCRAFT.
1. No more scrolling. The surface is big enough to cover the whole map!
2. Use both hands in commanding different groups of units simultaneously. (multi touch)
Or one hand selects the unit and the other hand points the destination in no time.
3. Select all desired units by drawing a border around them IN ANY SHAPE! whereas Using a mouse limits the selection only to units that fall inside a rectangular shape.
4. Can apply emmergency commands like retreat or transfer to another location by palm dragging the troops towards the destination.
Or any iPhone-like touch-strokes are possible.
So... you have scout planes out and about running patrols. You can currently select one and usually hit a key combo to select all like units on the map or the screen. You'd do this if you needed to recall all your fighters, or issue orders to only your artillery. Now you also have a factory pumping out all different kinds of units. They all rally in one spot. Are you seriously telling me that it would be quicker to select each individual engineer out of the blob of units by drawing a selection circle around only those specific units than say, pressing CTRL + Period to select all engineers on screen? Need to build something in a specific spot? not sure which of your idle engineers are closest? ALT + period. How about selecting all air units for a coordinated attack or to recall them for repair? In Supreme Commander it's as simple as CTRL + A without the need to separate them all out and set grouping numbers beforehand.
Or are you proposing we just clutter the screen with a bunch of buttons to do the same task?
OMG its a giant iPhone (someone had to say it)
"Over the next year, Microsoft built more than 85 early prototypes for Surface. The final hardware design was completed in 2005."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Surface
...Just stop it.
good god these people need some design aesthetic advice, because there is a reason this look failed in the early 90s. GREAT YOU GOT THE TECHNOLOGY DOWN! NICE JOB, now find a designer and make that thing look good
Ok... Ok... Look. It's a giant computer, inside a table. How is this cool? I thought we all wanted small and sleek, but instead we get a behemoth.
Ahh, more lack of vision from Engadget readers; no surprise.
Commercial uses are almost unlimited and I personally know those developing these for commercial purposes.
But for home use, there is more to do on a computer than games and photos. This is perfect for home automation and security setups! If the price comes in at $5,000 for the home unit (like their target), it will actually become one of the cheapest main controllers on the high-end automation market. And the flexibility is endless. Flick through your cameras, or set macros that turned down your lights and turn on your media system when you set popcorn on the table.
I can bet that anyone into home automation and security has this on their wish list. I certainly do!
How about this one: making it the size of a drafting table, and make a compatible version of CAD. It'd revolutionize architecture.
Great point! Actually, I believe all current versions of CAD would work right now. I run AutoCAD on my tablet and I love it more than using a mouse. But I honestly only do light work (electrial drawings.) An actual designer would have a hard time with only a 14" screen. But a 70" screen? Too bad most of the designers that worked on the board are almost gone, they could go back to almost working they way they used to!
They could even use their templetes like they did in the old days. You're right, it will be a complete revolution for designers.
This would be the first thing I would ever consider buying as soon as it is possible to buy. The WOW factor alone makes it something to have yesterday.
Well I happen to have something like this at my house that I built myself for MUTCH less (almost $9,500 less) than what Microsoft is asking for essentially a PC, a projector, 4 cameras and a modified coffee table that took me a week to build in my own time and all I need to do now is write software that does not sought photos or create ripples or smoke. I don't see the huge price tag as an excuse!
I'm not sure where you get the $9,500 from (guessing you paid $500 and the commercial version is $10,000). But let's look at your $500.
You said it took you a week to build this. One of the biggest mistakes people make when they DIY is to forget that their time is also a cost. One way I calculate any project to determine if I will do it myself is to take all hours as time and a half of my regular pay at work. Honestly, aren't you really working overtime when you are doing these projects?
So let's say you spent a week. Let's make it a business week of 40 hours. And let's go off the national median income of around $52,000/year. That's $25/hr regular pay, which will be $37.50 at 1.5X pay.
So it actually cost you $1,500 off labor to build it, plus $500 in materials (going off your post.) Now you are at $2,000, or 2/5ths the target price of the retail version.
But, you menton you still haven't done the programing. Let's take a very conservative estimate that programming and debugging will take 3X the hardware setup (again, very conservative). That's 120 hours. At $27.50, that's $4,500. Plus the $2,000, you have $6,500, more money than the target retail price. And I'm sure it won't be as roboust and full featured as their retail offering.
If you make more than $52,000/yr, the numbers just fly up from there. And, of course, this is also full dependant on you having the skills to do this build (which it seems you do.)
Time is money. Laziness is usually the farthest thing down the list when it comes to higher income people not doing work for themselves. In reality, it is cheaper for them to pay someone else to do it for them.
Any half-assed Harry can do it there self. It won't be nearly as good.
As a computer in and of itself I would not be interested in this device. Managing my photos on it? No way.
If Microsoft launches this thing though with a home automation system I would be all over it. How great would it be to control your thermostat, make your grocery list, manage your book/movie libary, get directions, look at movie/TV listings and all sorts of stuff like that on a device like this?
It is obviously being targeted as an appliance not a computer and if it is going to succed as an appliance I need it to work with the rest of the things that use electricity in my home and life. My cellphone, my home lighting, my leaisure activities. Using it as a computer would not make it practical to use or worthwile for the price.
But what if your dog jumps up on the table and sends your house haywire? What if your house starts trying to kill you like that film?
Microsoft has demo'd this vision before and they have refridgerators that do close to the same, but image this:
You unpack your groceries on a kitchen island mounted surface computer, your food inventory is logged. When you use items, you place them on the same table and they are deleted from inventory.
Now you have a complete food inventory and it may even auto-generate a shopping list. It can also go out and pull down local sales prices and coupons for the items you keep on the shelfs.
But I think this would be one of the coolest features: If you are like me, you get stuck in the rut of cooking the same things over and over. Well, since the computer knows what food you have in the house, it can pull up all kinds of recipes, based on exactly what you have in stock. It may suggest things you never thought of trying.
One step further, it can even pull up videos demonstrating exactly how to cook something. When your cooking, you are usually looking down any way (to cut, stir, etc...), so it would be a natural fit to be looking down at the video while you cook along with the demo. This could open up totally new subscription services, seeing the Foodie movement is in full swing.
How cool would it be if you could make this sync with your mobile devices by just placing them on the table. OR EM field interface for things like external hard drives, memory or even addition processor modules. I'm feeling the whole Superman crystal thing coming on...in a only kind of joking sort of way...
If Apple made this thing people would have lost their minds by now hailing it as the next biggest thing in computers, our lives for that matter.
I know other people have already said it, but I'll jump in anyway. This is not meant to replace the computer you use for productivity and/or gaming. It's a new platform that's meant to push the boundaries for how you use computing devices.
Sure, this has been done before. But mostly in labs and as proofs of concept. After it gets into the hands of real people and more people to build applications for it, I'm pretty sure it will take off.
No, I'm not an MS die-hard. No, they didn't pay me to say this. If you look at my comment history, you'll see I have more history with Apple products. But look at the iPhone. 40% of the time I spend on my iPhone is in apps built by the dev community or 3rd parties.
I think this platform has great potential. I agree with concerns about the entry cost and bulk and hope that manufacturers (MS or other) can quickly innovate past the current limitations. Until then, I'm looking forward to see what people come up with for this.
These things would be great for restaurants and bars. Imagine being able to page girls at other tables, order food, video chat, play games, etc. all while at your table. The novelty factor alone would draw a huge crowd.