Microsoft and Nokia in talks over Windows Mobile

We got a preemptive taste of what something like this might feel like with that banged up impostor-phone, the "Nokia" N94i -- but now things are getting real... ish. According to Microsoft's mobile communications business international marketing director (phew) John Starkweather, Redmond is in talks with the folks from Finland about getting Windows Mobile onto Nokia handsets. "They obviously have significant investments in Symbian but there are a lot of places where we have significant synergies and we would love to see the day where those synergies would extend completely with Windows Mobile," said Starkweather, though he couldn't say when or if any agreement will be met. "We work closely with Nokia and we would love to have them go all the way," Starkweather said. "It's something we talk about all the time." Hold up John, we think before you go all the way, Nokia's gonna want a ring on that finger... do we hear wedding bells?

[Via IntoMobile]

[xbit @ Feb 7th 2008 1:59PM]

I assume by "talks" he means Microsoft constantly asking and Nokia constantly saying no.

[L @ Feb 7th 2008 2:31PM]

TBH I hope this is the case.

A Nokia with Symbian? Fine.
A Nokia with Android? Probably fine (lacks any real-world proof yet)
A Nokia with WM? Urgs...

[Pdexter @ Feb 7th 2008 3:31PM]

Well that's how it has probally gone because Nokia is the biggest cell phone manufacturer and Symbian is biggest smartphone OS with 70% market share (btw s40 phones are using Nokia's own OS nothing to do with Symbian) and remember that Nokia owns 49% of Symbian so another reason for Nokia to say no.
After first S60 5th edition comes out it's bb to winmo from European and Asian market.
How about if Nokia uses winmo for NA market? It would make more sense than use it globally. Winmo has been losing it's market share while Symbian has keeped % in pretty much the same thought while of course smartphone business has been growing rapidly. So why jump to a sinking boat....no idea.

[BobbyW @ Feb 7th 2008 3:33PM]

Microsoft is in total shock seeing Apple surpass them in Smartphone market share. This is a knee jerk-please help us-we're desperate reaction.

[Pdexter @ Feb 7th 2008 4:06PM]

Oh and just to add it's not totally a bad thing why not have more options to look at, but this is just random rumour that will absolutely not happen.
Why would Nokia keep it alive when they have S60 and own 1/2 of it. If anything they would like to see winmo go even more down than now.

[john @ Feb 7th 2008 5:02PM]

I doubt Nokia will go with a pure Android solution (in response to "L"). I expect they're going to continue developing their own linux platform (maemo).

Now, pardon me while I hurl due the thought of WinMo on Nokia devices...

[BrianB @ Feb 7th 2008 6:41PM]

Even the Japanese and Koreans are using Symbian, the most advanced OS in the world.

[Dale @ Feb 7th 2008 2:00PM]

Christ on a bike what next, WM on the iPhone? S60 is amazing, please don't do this Nokia!

[monkfishbandana @ Feb 7th 2008 4:17PM]

S60 phones are fantastic...when they work. I have had four S60 phones, and they have all been either incredibly slow or they crash during basic functions.

[Pdexter @ Feb 8th 2008 6:06AM]

What phones have you had? Because it's a fact that all the new s60 devices are as fast as dumb phones with normal use.
Talking about all phones after N95.
My E90 havent crashed with out apps in, but with all apps installed i need to restart it every 1-2 weeks.

[Jakob @ Feb 7th 2008 2:03PM]

No!! Windows Mobile is the worst OS for an average customer. And it really hasn't changed since 2002.

I don't say MS sucks, but I hope they will start from scratch with Mobile 7/8, like they did with Office 2007 (and look at that awesome application)

[aaron @ Feb 7th 2008 2:08PM]

WM will likely be on a "business" phone not your everday cheapo Nokia.

[Daren @ Feb 7th 2008 2:10PM]

windows mobile 7 looks great (they started from scratch) and windows mobile 6.1 (which is said to be coming out this month as a free upgrade) makes windows mobile great for the average user. on par with the iPhone.

Having WM on a nokia phone isnt so black-and-white, after all in the end- it just offers the consumers more choices.

[Jon Shipman @ Feb 7th 2008 3:03PM]

6.1 only adds threaded SMS/MMS and page zooming in PIE... Not nesesarily on par with the iPhone. I still have to soft reset my WM6 phone every other day or so - no hacks. All OEM (minus some 3rd party apps, sans hacks)

[Pdexter @ Feb 7th 2008 3:36PM]

Aaron Symbian only has s60 and is used in N and E series devices.
S40 is Nokia's own os and nothing to do symbian.

[Al @ Feb 7th 2008 4:53PM]

There was no real SMS issue, but after Palm released the 750 everything just got better as the xda and palm guys gave us WM people the SMS. From what I am hearing the Palm SMS is better than the MS one.

[aaron @ Feb 7th 2008 5:06PM]

@Pdexter
I am aware of that. I had a N95-3 and sold it for a Moto Q Global. To be honest...it was a no brainer.


BTW...I was replying to Jakob's comment about the "average user".


Good day Sir.

[Poom @ Feb 8th 2008 9:39AM]

Cheapo Nokia? How about the Eseries (which is also Business) and the Nseries phone? I think you should take that back, aaron. I don't even know how you got highly ranked. S60 is frigging awesome and used in mid-end phones to high-end phones (including enterprise solutions). That's why it has the biggest market share for smartphones. WM, on the other hand, is very limitted only to your business sector.

[Philippe @ Feb 7th 2008 2:04PM]

"marketing" and "synergy" in the same paragraph, not bad... but why are the "vision", "strategy" and "business goals" nowhere to be found? Come on, Mr. John Starkweather, with a title like yours, you sure should be able to wrap them up in one sentence :-)

[Adam @ Feb 7th 2008 2:06PM]

I would love to see this happen... I personally love nokia phones, and Windows Mobile is EXTREMELY handy to have around. I'm no Microsoft lover by any stretch of the imagination, but Windows Mobile works great for me.

http://www.livingwithanerd.com

[kjb434 @ Feb 7th 2008 2:30PM]

DITTO THAT!

WM is great for business use. It's extremely flexible and the numbers of applications available make it that much better

[Spyvie @ Feb 7th 2008 3:02PM]

+1

[Spyvie @ Feb 7th 2008 3:02PM]

+1

[tpp @ Feb 7th 2008 2:06PM]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...................

Nokia, I BEG you, please do not do this.

[Rik @ Feb 7th 2008 4:01PM]

I was thinking the exact same thing.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[holycow @ Feb 7th 2008 2:07PM]

If Nokia can customize the WM platform then please go ahead... if not.. please Nokia stick with Symbian!

[Joe @ Feb 7th 2008 2:11PM]

Umm, no thanks.

[kal326 @ Feb 7th 2008 2:15PM]

Let me sleep on it, Microsoft, Microsoft let me sleep on it...

[Thomas @ Feb 7th 2008 2:17PM]

Would be great. WM is amazing and blows away all other mobile OS.' Fan boys look at each OS feature by feature and you will see how many more functions WM has.

[Scott @ Feb 7th 2008 5:03PM]

Ah yes, the "jack of all trades, master of none" approach. That certainly defines WinMo to a T. The funniest complaint I've seen is people getting rid of a WinMo phone because they had trouble making PHONE CALLS!

[Bearxor @ Feb 7th 2008 8:04PM]

That's because they're buying HTC devices, honestly.

[bigdoggie @ Feb 7th 2008 2:17PM]

What's so bad about Windows Mobile?
I've never tried it, so I wouldn't know..

But meh.

[Todd @ Feb 7th 2008 2:18PM]

Now all you Nokia users know what us Flickr/Pipes/Upcoming users feel like. It's gross huh? That sickening feeling in your stomach that your beloved piece if tech is about to be completely ruined.

[L @ Feb 7th 2008 2:33PM]

You could use Twango/Ovi Share as an Nokia-based alternive :D

[Brian @ Feb 7th 2008 2:19PM]

I agree. WM has the most robust feature set of any mobile OS. Third party applications = Win

[L @ Feb 7th 2008 2:34PM]

S60 has plenty of S60 apps too, you know?

[Al @ Feb 7th 2008 4:57PM]

In actuality third party may still be Palm as there is a huge list of free palm apps all over the net.

[Brian @ Feb 7th 2008 6:56PM]

Yea, but there aren't nearly as many NEW palm apps.

Palm used to be the mobile OS to be on... back in the day when I had a Sony Clie. >.>

[Dankoozy @ Feb 7th 2008 2:21PM]

If this happens I'm never buying another Nokia again. if nokia stops making symbian phones whats left? android? linux? android will probably have an oversimplified touch-screen based UI that I won't like.

I would keep buying nokias just to stay away from Windoze mobile and this is why I have bought nokias all along. I don't like WM's user interface, how its written and how it is just part of the whole microsoft ecosystem.

[Skullfighter @ Feb 7th 2008 4:31PM]

What you mean to say is that even if winmo is amazing, you would still avoid it because it is Micro$oft.

Calling it like it is.

[Organic_Shadow @ Feb 7th 2008 2:26PM]

Nokia... what happened to those open source marketing blitz things you guys did shortly after the Android announcement? Please go with Android BEFORE offering phones with WM... at least give us a choice.

[ajwalker @ Feb 7th 2008 2:28PM]

Didn't seem Microsoft wants to replace S60 (which I gave an honest try and didn't like), sounds like they are pushing for a similar deal they struck with Palm - S60 on most Nokia phones but a few offering Windows Mobile.

Or more likely, an S60 version of their top tier phones and a Windows Mobile version and let the consumer decide.

[kjb434 @ Feb 7th 2008 2:35PM]

I agree. I really don't think Microsoft is looking to be on all there phones and not even on all there smartphones. I think Nokia just wants to give users a choice.

[xbit @ Feb 7th 2008 2:42PM]

And it's a strategy that's worked wonders for Palm. Their stock is doing great these days.

[ajwalker @ Feb 7th 2008 8:12PM]

@xbit
You really aren't suggesting that is Microsoft's fault are you? Nokia innovates pretty often, unlike Palm.

In fact, I think Windows Mobile Treos outsell Palm Treos but that could be just what I heard. I'm not saying I have the actual facts to back it up, but I could have sworn I read that somewhere.

[Rich @ Feb 8th 2008 5:31AM]

@ajwalker

By releasing Windows Mobile devices, Palm basically said "we have no confidence in our own OS". Everyone saw that and it knocked people's confidence in both Palm and Palm OS.

If Nokia released a Windows Mobile device, it would be sending out the same clear message.

How many operating systems does Apple support?

[CanCar @ Feb 7th 2008 2:57PM]

It is not a secret that Microsoft (agilely) is introducing his operating system for cells on the Nokia telephones besides to introduce the services of Live Windows...

[dean @ Feb 7th 2008 3:13PM]

Hey, the more OS's they support, the better. Who is against having more options? So Nokia, do Symbian, do Android, and do Windows. Its all good.

On another note, how much of an OS do you need if you can get just about any desktop (or palmtop?) application on the web? Just let the handset run all the internet stuff (java, ajax, etc.), then have widgets that connect to an online word processor, flickr, online calendar...

[Joe @ Feb 7th 2008 2:38PM]

I haven't tried a WM phone, but I've had several Nokia E and N S60 phones in the past. S60 is slow and crashes a lot! I cannot see how WM on a Nokia could be worse.

[Tor Slettnes @ Mar 14th 2008 6:03PM]

Which E and N series phones?

Symbian, like all other mobile OSes, has matured a lost the last few years. My Nokia N95-3 is loaded with just about every type of Symbian and Java application there is (some on autostart, like the Google Search standby applet, the Fring Skype/gTalk/yTalk/MSN client, WorldMate, and Nokia's "Location Tagger" application) - frequent use of Nokia Maps w/voice navigation, Google Maps w/GPS enabled, Internet Radio, etc, rarely crashes at all (much less frequently, for instance, than my previous Motorola v3xx non-smartphone).

Oh, and I frequently use it to tether my internet connection with my Nokia N800 or my laptop over bluetooth, and/or use the "ExtGPS" application to share the GPS module with them - again - no problem with crashes.

Sure the S60 UI can be improved (for instance, with Mouse and/or Touch-screen support - it already supports external bluetooth keyboards); sure, the CPU speed can be bumped up a little so long at it does not drain the battery too much; and sure, the home screen could allow a bit more customization. That said, the underlying Symbian OS is one of the most technically sophisticated pieces of software that exists on the planet today. Unlike "desktop" OSes like Linux, Darwin or Windows, it uses a layered micro-kernel (even nano-kernel inside it) architecture; event-based communication in nearly every aspect (e.g. to request system services), therefore "hard real-time" multitasking, making things like single-chip 3G/3.5G communication possible and efficient. (And I say this as a huge Linux/Debian fan/developer/user and also Mac OS X user).

Clearly, every OS has its flaws. In the case of Symbian, it was the choice of "FAT" as its internal filesystem. (Hence, you will see process/task names often ending with ".exe", as in DOS/Windows, but actually taken from VMS..)

I have not used UIQ (there are no good UIQ phones with U.S. GSM/WCDMA bands available..), but I would expect that this may be a "nicer" presentation layer than S60...