Researchers devise coffee machine that can tell good coffee from bad

It looks like coffee technology could be about to take another leap forward, with Nestle researchers now touting that they've devised a machine that can tell the difference between good coffee and bad coffee -- espresso, in particular. Apparently, the machine has "nearly" the taste accuracy of a panel of trained espresso tasters, who, if this machine is any indication, may soon have to kiss their envious job goodbye (like so many others that have been forced to confront the cold hard reality of the machines taking over). While there's apparently still quite a bit of work to be done on the coffee tasting machine, Nestle eventually sees it being used as a quality control device for the entire coffee industry.

[Via Single Serve Coffee]

[CraigJ @ Feb 13th 2008 1:58PM]

Starbucks should give these a try...

[chris fredette @ Feb 13th 2008 2:29PM]

I was going to add that the title should include:

;Starbucks trembles.

[Anthony @ Feb 13th 2008 2:36PM]

I heard yesterday on NPR that Starbucks is closing later this month for 3 hrs to go over the "basics" of coffee making. I believe it's a Tuesday from 5.30 until 8.30.

They're trying to return to core principals (maybe not quite so many CDs for sale).

Maybe this machine will keep them on track in the future.

I'll stick to my Saeco.

[fahnboi @ Feb 13th 2008 2:42PM]

I always lose the spring in my step when I'm talking to an otherwise well adjusted person who starts gettin' all gushy about Starfucks without the conversation even coming up. I'll betcha the only thing they've ever had was diner/work coffee. I betcha. That's like saying the Ford Festiva roXors because it's technically not a go-cart.

[fahnboi @ Feb 13th 2008 2:44PM]

oh but hey, at least Starpukes' wifi is almost as free as, oh, every other coffee joint anywhere. oh well, at least you can buy DRM music there.

[CraigJ @ Feb 13th 2008 2:49PM]

In addition the the training, they should maybe buy better beans and roast them properly instead of turning them into charcoal. Not all beans are created equal, and not all beans support a super dark roasting. Starbucks beans are so over roasted that it doesn't really matter what the origin of the bean is, because all you can taste is the roast... For example, a lot of Ethiopian coffee tastes much better with a mild city roast. Yeah, I'm a coffee snob...

[To: Hell @ Feb 13th 2008 2:50PM]

hey fahnboi so you ever shut up?? You sound like a complete ass.

[fahnboi @ Feb 13th 2008 3:44PM]

interesting.. looks like To:Hell / warriorz (nice name) entire post history of two is flaming me. so some troll (yeah i guess i have a bad habit of feeding the trolls) invented another engadget account for the sole purpose of slandering me. my guess is it's Markus.

[Jeff @ Feb 13th 2008 4:22PM]

CraigJ:

If you were really a coffee snob then you'd know that terms like "city roast" are meaningless.

Starbucks buys different types of beans from all over the world, though they do not buy the cheap Vietnamese stuff like you see in supermarket coffee. You can see when you order a regular coffee at Starbucks that they serve a different type of coffee pretty much every day, and you can look yourself to see where the beans for that type came from. "House blend" at Starbucks is not a product; it just means you get whatever they choose to serve that day. You're never getting the same coffee. (You're not even necessarily getting a blend.)

Starbucks roasts their beans to a level that's common to most of the world. American coffee is usually roasted very lightly - way towards the green end of the scale. Most of the world thinks pretty derisively of us for this - in Japan, they even sell "American coffee" which is just weaker and lighter than regular coffee. Starbucks can probably be credited with at least introducing Americans to what coffee is actually supposed to taste like.

I'm not saying Starbucks coffee is the best. I personally go to independent coffee shops near me that are better sometimes (though they're not as convenient, so I do go to Starbucks most days). Some of these places roast their beans even darker than Starbucks does, and their beans are no better - anyone ever try Porto Rico in NYC?

What I am saying is that most of the criticism people level against Starbucks is misguided. Starbucks does not "burn" their beans - they roast them the way everybody else in the world outside of America does. If people want to criticize them, at least do so comparing them to other good coffee shops, not the weak Vietnamese crap you get at your local diner that you only like because you're used to it.

[CraigJ @ Feb 13th 2008 5:05PM]

@Jeff.

"If you were really a coffee snob then you'd know that terms like "city roast" are meaningless."

How is city roast a meaningless term? "city roast" refers to the a level of color the bean acquires during roasting. other terms include French, Viennese, etc... City roast, is also referred to as American roast. I get my beans from a small roaster that roasts beans in small batches and applies the appropriate roast to the specific bean, and uses a spectrometer of some sort to measure specific levels and rations of various compounds in the coffee during roasting. Very high quality, and unfortunately, very expensive. My weekly pound of beans costs between $15 and $25, but for that I get absolutely delicious coffee, that has been roasted the same day...

"Starbucks buys different types of beans from all over the world, though they do not buy the cheap Vietnamese stuff like you see in supermarket coffee. You can see when you order a regular coffee at Starbucks that they serve a different type of coffee pretty much every day, and you can look yourself to see where the beans for that type came from. "House blend" at Starbucks is not a product; it just means you get whatever they choose to serve that day. You're never getting the same coffee. (You're not even necessarily getting a blend.)"

Uh, Duh? What does that have to do with anything in my comment?

"Starbucks roasts their beans to a level that's common to most of the world. American coffee is usually roasted very lightly - way towards the green end of the scale. Most of the world thinks pretty derisively of us for this - in Japan, they even sell "American coffee" which is just weaker and lighter than regular coffee. Starbucks can probably be credited with at least introducing Americans to what coffee is actually supposed to taste like."

That's the point, they seem to roast all of their beans to the same level, somewhere around a French roast. The further point is, that some beans taste better with a lighter roast. My personal favorites are Yirgacheffe, and Misty Valley varieties. the Misty Valley beans in particular have a very fruity flavor that is ruined by a French roast. For these beans a Full City roast (or city+, or regular, or American if you prefer) yields a better cup of coffee. On the other hand, I particularly like some Mexican coffees, which seem to be the best with a Vienna roast which compliments the earthy, chocolaty flavors of the bean. Again, this is my point: appropriate roast for the bean.

"I'm not saying Starbucks coffee is the best. I personally go to independent coffee shops near me that are better sometimes (though they're not as convenient, so I do go to Starbucks most days). Some of these places roast their beans even darker than Starbucks does, and their beans are no better - anyone ever try Porto Rico in NYC?"

Just because a coffee place is "independent" doesn't mean they are any better or worse than Starbucks...

"What I am saying is that most of the criticism people level against Starbucks is misguided. Starbucks does not "burn" their beans - they roast them the way everybody else in the world outside of America does. If people want to criticize them, at least do so comparing them to other good coffee shops, not the weak Vietnamese crap you get at your local diner that you only like because you're used to it."

If by "roast them the way everybody else in the world" you mean they indiscriminately apply very dark roast to all their beans regardless of the character of the specific bean, then I guess you are correct...

[James L @ Feb 13th 2008 2:00PM]

At last!

[wickedpheonix @ Feb 13th 2008 2:02PM]

I can almost guarantee that these machines will say the Nestle coffee is the best and everything else sucks.

[paragraph @ Feb 13th 2008 2:03PM]

Really? What gives you that idea?

[Anthony @ Feb 13th 2008 2:53PM]

The Nespresso is supposed to be a very good quality coffee, but recycling the aluminum pods (in the US) is a real pain. In Switzerland, apparently, you can drop them off somewhere, but not most places.

[Magnulus @ Feb 13th 2008 2:03PM]

Of course, as with any other technology like this, it'll take a long time before people take the word of a machine rather than that of a person, especially since you can only go so far saying what coffee is good coffee. People who are used to cheap coffee that tastes like death might not like Monsooned Malabar, for example, just because it's not bitter as hell and it doesn't rot your insides.

Of course, it wouldn't help Starbucks much since their problem (at least in the UK) isn't that the coffee is technically BAD, it's just a nothing-coffee. It's just bland enough to not offend as many tastebuds as possible. Get a cappuccino there and it tastes like... well, warm milk with some coffee flavouring.

[Lawrence @ Feb 13th 2008 2:05PM]

Does Starbucks make espresso ? ... I don't what you call that stuff. Thank god for the independent coffee shops of N America.

[fahnboi @ Feb 13th 2008 2:30PM]

i second that. kinda makes me sad; for example i really really like peet's coffee but am yet to have an even tolerable espresso there

[Denver_80203 @ Feb 13th 2008 2:07PM]

Will it help the Heart of Gold understand what makes a good cup of tea?

[BoxOfSnoo @ Feb 13th 2008 2:13PM]

Almost, but not quite exactly.

[elbrando @ Feb 13th 2008 2:27PM]

Beautiful HG2G ref! +1 for you.

[CraigJ @ Feb 13th 2008 2:40PM]

...completely unlike tea

[Matt @ Feb 14th 2008 12:51AM]

Great...this will be just like with Inkjet cartridges that have the expiration date embedded into them. If you don't use them within a certain amount of time - they go bad. Sorry. This coffe is out of date. Please purchase a fresh bag of Java at your neighbourhood store.

[maillist @ Feb 13th 2008 7:14PM]

Because we all know how much good coffee Nestle makes :(

[joshua.rodriguez @ Feb 13th 2008 2:17PM]

Can I get one of these for my work break room...

[Argot @ Feb 13th 2008 2:19PM]

I like coffee flavored coffee. Almost impossible to get nowdays, and when you find it, it tastes like dung. So I for one welcome our new coffee tasting machine overlords.

[Superevil @ Feb 13th 2008 2:25PM]

Has cancer been cured yet?

[makishima @ Feb 13th 2008 2:40PM]

Yeah it sucks that those super genius doctors and researcers at NESTLE have wasted their time researching this when they should be curing cancer. I'm sure they'll get right on that.

[Argot @ Feb 13th 2008 2:55PM]

Yes, almost, thanks to coffee:

http://www.voanews.com/lao/archive/2005-11/2005-11-19-voa2.cfm

[John @ Feb 13th 2008 5:51PM]

Actually, there is a possibility that Superevil's comment was actually in reference to Denis Leary's "No Cure for Cancer" which featured a rant on coffee-flavored coffee. I don't know if Argot also commented in reference to Leary when he mentioned coffee-flavored coffee but I couldn't ignore the coincidence.

I laughed so hard I cried and couldn't breathe the first time I saw "No Cure for Cancer".

[adam @ Feb 13th 2008 2:56PM]

I think you mean "enviable," not "envious".

[Michael Knutson @ Feb 13th 2008 3:16PM]

Interesting that anyone (or anything) claims to be able to judge 'good' coffee, when it's such a subjective experience. A few years back I talked my mother into trying an espresso at a very good coffee bar (not starbucks or peets), and, she got physically sick after drinking it. But mine was good (or even excellent). Like trying to identify good music, or a good painting. Must be a slow news week despite the activities in Barcelona ...

[fahnboi @ Feb 13th 2008 5:00PM]

just because something is measured subjectively doesn't mean that it's purely un-objective. i can't put giraffe feces in my coffee mug and claim it to be l33t.

[Lyle @ Feb 13th 2008 3:19PM]

Note that they don't say the machine can tell you if its good or bad coffee it can only be used to identify specific tastes and aromas in the coffee.

[coffee @ Feb 13th 2008 3:19PM]

coffee tasting cannot be left to a machine. Unless it has the emotion chip.

[CraigJ @ Feb 13th 2008 3:28PM]

a new job for Data when he retires!

[Ubitquitin @ Feb 13th 2008 3:29PM]

I work with with mass spectrometers and PTR-MS is a new and expensive methods of MS. . The MS type I use are two CID (collision induced dissociation) MS which is a older tech than PTR and one costs $200,000 and the newer one costs $350,000. Granted these are research grade machines but this thing is going to be damn expensive.

[CraigJ @ Feb 13th 2008 3:40PM]

The guy that runs the Coffee Roastery in Scottsdale is an Organic Chemist, or some such, and uses some sort of spectrometer (not sure exactly what) and over time has developed a method for roasting beans based on the presence of specific compounds in specific ratios. I don't know exactly what he does, but it is the best damn coffee I've ever tasted. http://www.arizonareviews.com/thevillagecoffeeroastery.htm

[Ike Skelton @ Feb 13th 2008 3:31PM]

How does it know what kind of coffee I like?

[Ethan @ Feb 13th 2008 8:19PM]

Wow it's actually a wife from the 30's. As for taste, maybe it could use some of those analytical skills to look at a home-brewed cup.

I want jew balls to reply to my comments irrelevantly.

[Allen @ Feb 13th 2008 3:31PM]

The problem with Starbucks (hence the reason someone thought this machine was needed) is that its coffee sucks. Why does its coffee suck? Its not due to Starbucks, its due to their consumers.

People who shopped at Starbucks twenty years ago went their for the appreciation of the bean. Ten years ago yuppies thought it was cool, today its the place where everyone, including uber-fat women wearing clothes too small for them, to go get glorified chocolate milk. Everyone adds loads of honey or ginger or cinnamon, which originally was just added in a dash to give a little bit more flavor to the finish of a drink.

I only buy coffee at a place where the Barista can tell me about the beans used and the process of making coffee. If I go in and they say "whats a Barista?" I leave.

Starbucks has become a fast food joint, and hence, isn't worth its name anymore. Hencemore, this machine.

[Jeff @ Feb 13th 2008 4:28PM]

You do realize you can still go in and order a plain old regular coffee at Starbucks and then look on the bag and read all about where the beans came from and what type they are, right?

Oh, and you don't have to add any milk, cream or sugar if you don't want to.

[WorldCTZen @ Feb 13th 2008 6:23PM]

This device won't tell you if the coffee is good. It will, however, quantify the chemical signature of a pre-determined 'good' coffee for later comparison. So, when one of you coffee afficianados walks into a coffe bar and says "thy coffee doth suck", they can test it against the ideal for that blend, and tell you, "no, verily, thy taste buds doth suck".

Of course, this also means they can finally tune the protein synth to spit out brew that tastes like coffe rather than TasteeWheat.

[Wes @ Feb 13th 2008 4:46PM]

does it come with a 'pretentious' meter?

"You think that's good coffee? You've obviously never had hand-picked Honduran roasted over a Hawaiian volcano and strained in the purest unicorn tears. Moron."

[brian @ Feb 13th 2008 5:10PM]

http://www.tagsum.com/news/10349/Researchers-devise-coffee-machine-that-can-tell-good-coffee-from-bad

[granny down east @ Feb 13th 2008 10:22PM]

My Italian grandmother rolls eyes.

[onin @ Feb 13th 2008 11:54PM]

I better check a cup of Tim Hortons coffee on this.

[Keith Johnson @ Feb 16th 2008 6:53AM]

SUBJECTIVE, MICHAEL? NO. THE TASTE OF COFFEE IS ONLY SUBJECTIVE IF YOU SAY YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. KNOWING THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE ORIGINS AND JUDGING THE QUALITY IS BOTH AN ART AND A SKILL, WITH TONS OF KNOWLEDGE THAT THE MACHINE WILL MOST LIKELY NOT GET DUE TO THE FACT IT CANNOT PREDICT WHAT ORIGINS WILL BLEND TOGETHER TO MAKE THE FINISHED PRODUCT UNIQUE, CONSISTENT AND OF COURSE, DESIRABLE....NOT TO MENTION AFFORDABLE.

[Keith Johnson @ Feb 16th 2008 6:53AM]

The industry uses a spectormeter prevalently called AGTRON for roasting consistency. Neuhaus Neotec also makes a fine spectrometer as well. BUT THEY ONLY MEASURE ROAST COLOR.

[Keith Johnson @ Feb 16th 2008 6:53AM]

JEFF, CHARBUX ROASTS DARKER THAN MOST. SCANDANAVIA DOMINATES, ALONG WITH FRANCE TO PRODUCE "EUROPEAN" COFFEE AND THEIR ROASTS ARE FAR LIGHTER. I DONT KNOW WHERE YOU GET YOUR INFORMATION ABOUT THE MAKEUP OF BLENDS, BUT THEY ARE TELLING YOU LIES. ...AND VIETNAMESE COFFEES ARE 99% ROBUSTA, THEREFORE NOT "WEAK", BUT EXTREMELY ACIDIC. THATS WHY FOLGERS AND MAXWELL HOUSE STEAM THEM TO MAKE THEM MORE PALATABLE, AS THE COFFEE MARKET TRADES ROBUSTAS AT .40 PER LB LOWER THAN STANDARD ARABICAS.

[JM @ Feb 16th 2008 7:03AM]

YOU WANT GOOD COFFEE? Check these guys out.....They roast for Cruise Lines, REstaurants and Hotels. I had their coffee on a Norwegian Cruise Line trip and even had one in a great Italian restaurant in Manhattan........I saw them again on Continental Airlines and they even won the Gold Medal as Besi Brew in the USA..and they're from TEXAS ! ! ? ? ?
www.freshbrewgroup.com