This is IBM now, they don't change anything look at Lotus Notes (vomits in mouth) it's looked the same for ever now, except for Notes 8 or should I say 7 with the 8 theme pack. Not to dog on Notes its reliable and stable but its ugly and not user friendly whatsoever.
That's the problem with Apple, and the precise reason the MacBook Air fails. They went for FORM OVER FUNCTION. They included only 1 USB port and and no optical drive for pure form.
This pretty much does everything better, includes more than just one USB port AND an optical disc drive, and it's hardly bigger than the Air.
Had Lenovo been thinking with the form over function mindset, they would have produced a completely useless laptop.
However, while it does look bland, it's certainly not "ugly" by any means.
Don't judge a book by its cover. It is not the slick look of the notebook that wins the supply contract in the business world. It is the innovation, functionality and usability that thinkpad trumps the competitors.
Because of this design, you can tell that's a thinkpad 50 meters away.
Dude, form over function?! Are you kidding me? The ThinkPad runs Windows. Hello? If the airlines ran like Windows, they'd route me through Mumbai on a flight from Atlanta to New York, and planes would regularly drop from the sky for inexplicable reasons. Windows f*@! all about function.
You want raw, efficient, industrial-strength function? Install FreeBSD without a window manager and learn to love csh, lynx, perl, mysql, and gcc.
I'd take the MacBook Air. I have to do FreeBSD-thing at work, but I want simplicity and reliability for personal use. Windows is a memory hogging, slow ride to frustration. Linux is for geeks who want to pretend they know everything, but usually have to rebuild their installation 6+ times a year because they screwed up something simple and don't have someone to tell them how to fix it. Mac OS X is for when you don't mind paying a moderate price for a computer and OS that'll give you the experience technology was meant to give.
Form over function? I'm pretty sure I've got form and function in my MacBook Pro and my new iMac...and my iPhone...err, and my AppleTV. Oh, did I mention how well my Apple Extreme base station works? :-)
What can I say? I'm enamored. The stuff all works awesome. It's made information consumption and processing a dream for me and my family. And all of it cost me about $5000, which is not bad when you consider two smart phones/video ipods (I got one for my wife, too), a slim desktop computer, a high-end laptop, and an awesome digital media player/extender/internet portal for my flat screen TV. All in all, $5000 is almost cheap for all that.
Anyway, back to my point. Which is: Linux and Windows suck; FreeBSD and Mac OS X rules. Go suck a nut.
Agrees with ^Kev^. The industrial design of the Think Pads is very well done, plus they are pretty rugged. I dropped my T series a couple of time with no apparent damage... I do prefer the look of the MacBook Pro (especially the old titanium one), but that's comparing apples to... not apples.
If you want ugly, get a Dell laptop. All Dells look like they were designed by Pontiac. In 1985.
I understand the need to have sexy gadgets, but Thinkpads are sexy in their own way. It doesn't have the same eye-appeal as some Apple notebooks, but people that have used a Thinkpad before will understand. The can take a lot of abuse and still look new. I bought my X40 on ebay when it was 4 years old and the damn thing still looks like it came out of the box yesterday.
Thinkpads look a lot better to me than any MacBook. The MacBook (including the Air) look like frilly hispter doofus devices. They're the modern hippie equivalent of a Hummer - they're showoff designs intended to make you look cooler than the people around you. As such, I can't respect them, whatever's actually under the hood. (btw, a hint: really cool designs aren't trying to look cool. They just are.)
Thinkpad design has *always* been all business, and I'm glad to see it staying that way. These are laptops that *demand* respect. They say "I have this laptop because I need it to do important work!" whereas a MacBook says "I have this laptop because I'm trying desperately to be cool." Yes, I'm being a *little* facetious, but come on - nobody can say that's not in the back of their mind when you see someone sitting with one of these things at Starbucks or (insert your own local coffee shop here).
Not to mention that most Thinkpads will out-tough any MacBook. Part of Thinkpad design is ruggedness. I don't know if that applies to this little thing, but most Thinkpads have metal casings and really thick plastic bevels and ridiculously strong hinges and whatnot. They're tanks. This one probably has the ruggedness dialed back a notch or two for weight savings, but it's probably still the reason why it weighs a few ounces more than comparable machines.
A Thinkpad could literally beat up any comparable MacBook in a street fight.
why aren't you asking why we are still using the QWERTY keyboard layout? It's just as relevant a question. There are so many design issues at stake in the redesign of a product that affect more than looks.
"Anyway, back to my point. Which is: Linux and Windows suck; FreeBSD and Mac OS X rules. Go suck a nut."
I am sorry, but you are an idiot.
Why in the world does linux suck, but not BSD? Could it possibly be that you are just blind Apple fanboy and OS X uses a BSD based kernel... which Apple used the BSD license to hide behind and use all the hard work of the open source community, but hardly give anything back.
You obviously know little to nothing about BSD. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would realize that BSD is behind and less mature than linux as far as usability and user interface. Have you even tried a linux OS? From your ignorant comments, I highly doubt it. May I suggest giving Ubuntu a go? You don't even have to install it to try it, just run it from the LiveCD.
On top of that, if it was not for all the hard work of the open source community, linux and BSD combined, OS X wouldn't exist.
So shut your pie hole and stop spewing your ignorant bull crap. You are a Apple fanboy, that part is obvious, but until you actually have a clue on what you are talking about, go peddle it elsewhere.
"These are laptops that *demand* respect. They say "I have this laptop because I need it to do important work!" whereas a MacBook says "I have this laptop because I'm trying desperately to be cool."
DUDE! easy eaaasy. And let me just say, I think you're feeling superior about how discreet and austere your non-mac looks, either that or youre into the aethetic of hard work and suffering and can't stand it when people bust out something pretty. I hope you're not into women, cause they can be a lot like macs, and from what I gather that would really piss you off.
look, in the end, a little bit of form does matter. It should not distract from the function, but making an ugly product(and the Thinkpad _IS_ ugly) when you don't really have too, seems rather silly to me. Look at the VAIO. That looks nice.
I mean Linux is not as good as FreeBSD when network performance, reliability, and security are considered. I have both FreeBSD 6.1 boxes and FC5 boxes in the lab. I prefer, by far, the FreeBSD boxes. Even when the box has clearly lower specs, the performance is better. Plus, I much rather the ports system to the yellowdog (yum) system, and surely, it's better than the RPM system.
I've tried Ubuntu, three years ago, when it was just getting traction. I liked it. It's slick. I wouldn't use it over OS X. But, they absolutely did a great job at making Linux available and usable for non-technical people. I used Mandrake for five years, before trying Ubuntu (the whole Mandriva changeover annoyed me). I know Linux pretty darned well. Just because someone doesn't like what you like, doesn't make them inexperienced or an idiot.
My post does not touch upon the user-friendliness of FreeBSD compared Linux, because FreeBSD is not user friendly in the general sense. It is, though, user-friendly in the engineering sense. I use FreeBSD machines as network servers exclusively. I would never want it on my laptop.
From some of your other posts, you sound like an IT goon (seeing your Lenovo rep). Engineers, the group I fall in, look at IT people as self-important know-nothings gouging companies with their subpar performance. Go play with your active directory and lie some more to your director about how hard your job is.
Ah, an engineer, we in IT think of them as self righteous, self proclaimed (which is highly debatable) know it all with no real world logic, sense or ability to communicate with anyone other than engineers. Engineers are the people that make our job in IT difficult, demanding the impossible or improvable and especially when they think they know what they are talking about and tell us how to do our job. You don't see me telling you how to do your job, I expect the same respect professionally.
If we were talking about BSD a few years back, then maybe I would give you the performance, reliability, and security. In fact, I ran a web server on FreeBSD for a while. However, due to the open source community and more concentration on linux over the years, they are pretty much on par. Ports is great, but not with out its own issues. I do tend to favor ports though, I love Gentoo and the emerge system that stems from ports. However, apt is another great implantation that is included with Debian and its variants.
I personally don't use or care much for Ubuntu. The reason I even tell people to use it is exactly what you said, they did a outstanding job at bring linux into the spot light and easy for most people to use.
Making blanket statements, like "linux sucks" does not help your cause nor does it show if you know what you are talking about or not. All it takes is one short sentence with a little re-wording to get your point across with out sounding like a ignorant moron.
Thinkpads are beautiful. The last thing we need is some Steve-Jobs-inspired "design" folks ruining the technical merits (keyboard, trackpoint, reliability, repairability) with their idea of "new and improved".
If you want to gussy yours up, knock yourself out - buy a fluorescent purple-on-white neoprene cover for it. Spray paint it orange. But leave the basics alone. Thanks.
Engineers make our jobs possible, and we make their jobs relevant. Quit bickering like school children, it's much more productive to get along and be on the same page.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
They @ Feb 14th 2008 10:41AM
Why are the think pads _still_ ugly? They haven't changed the design in years!
Fernando @ Feb 14th 2008 10:52AM
This is IBM now, they don't change anything look at Lotus Notes (vomits in mouth) it's looked the same for ever now, except for Notes 8 or should I say 7 with the 8 theme pack. Not to dog on Notes its reliable and stable but its ugly and not user friendly whatsoever.
kev @ Feb 14th 2008 10:52AM
Industrial design is ugly to you? If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and it's worked with their business users for well over a decade.
If you want to be showing off your laptop at Starbucks, go get a Macbook Air.
They @ Feb 14th 2008 10:54AM
I've got no problem with an 'Industrial' look, but there's no reason 'Industrial' can't look sleek.
Zeus.:God @ Feb 14th 2008 10:56AM
Why does it matter?
That's the problem with Apple, and the precise reason the MacBook Air fails. They went for FORM OVER FUNCTION. They included only 1 USB port and and no optical drive for pure form.
This pretty much does everything better, includes more than just one USB port AND an optical disc drive, and it's hardly bigger than the Air.
Had Lenovo been thinking with the form over function mindset, they would have produced a completely useless laptop.
However, while it does look bland, it's certainly not "ugly" by any means.
tom @ Feb 14th 2008 11:03AM
Don't judge a book by its cover. It is not the slick look of the notebook that wins the supply contract in the business world. It is the innovation, functionality and usability that thinkpad trumps the competitors.
Because of this design, you can tell that's a thinkpad 50 meters away.
Gian @ Feb 14th 2008 11:36AM
Dude, form over function?! Are you kidding me? The ThinkPad runs Windows. Hello? If the airlines ran like Windows, they'd route me through Mumbai on a flight from Atlanta to New York, and planes would regularly drop from the sky for inexplicable reasons. Windows f*@! all about function.
You want raw, efficient, industrial-strength function? Install FreeBSD without a window manager and learn to love csh, lynx, perl, mysql, and gcc.
I'd take the MacBook Air. I have to do FreeBSD-thing at work, but I want simplicity and reliability for personal use. Windows is a memory hogging, slow ride to frustration. Linux is for geeks who want to pretend they know everything, but usually have to rebuild their installation 6+ times a year because they screwed up something simple and don't have someone to tell them how to fix it. Mac OS X is for when you don't mind paying a moderate price for a computer and OS that'll give you the experience technology was meant to give.
Form over function? I'm pretty sure I've got form and function in my MacBook Pro and my new iMac...and my iPhone...err, and my AppleTV. Oh, did I mention how well my Apple Extreme base station works? :-)
What can I say? I'm enamored. The stuff all works awesome. It's made information consumption and processing a dream for me and my family. And all of it cost me about $5000, which is not bad when you consider two smart phones/video ipods (I got one for my wife, too), a slim desktop computer, a high-end laptop, and an awesome digital media player/extender/internet portal for my flat screen TV. All in all, $5000 is almost cheap for all that.
Anyway, back to my point. Which is: Linux and Windows suck; FreeBSD and Mac OS X rules. Go suck a nut.
Gian
CraigJ @ Feb 14th 2008 11:29AM
Agrees with ^Kev^. The industrial design of the Think Pads is very well done, plus they are pretty rugged. I dropped my T series a couple of time with no apparent damage... I do prefer the look of the MacBook Pro (especially the old titanium one), but that's comparing apples to... not apples.
If you want ugly, get a Dell laptop. All Dells look like they were designed by Pontiac. In 1985.
Scott @ Feb 14th 2008 11:44AM
I understand the need to have sexy gadgets, but Thinkpads are sexy in their own way. It doesn't have the same eye-appeal as some Apple notebooks, but people that have used a Thinkpad before will understand. The can take a lot of abuse and still look new. I bought my X40 on ebay when it was 4 years old and the damn thing still looks like it came out of the box yesterday.
Jeff @ Feb 14th 2008 11:55AM
Thinkpads look a lot better to me than any MacBook. The MacBook (including the Air) look like frilly hispter doofus devices. They're the modern hippie equivalent of a Hummer - they're showoff designs intended to make you look cooler than the people around you. As such, I can't respect them, whatever's actually under the hood. (btw, a hint: really cool designs aren't trying to look cool. They just are.)
Thinkpad design has *always* been all business, and I'm glad to see it staying that way. These are laptops that *demand* respect. They say "I have this laptop because I need it to do important work!" whereas a MacBook says "I have this laptop because I'm trying desperately to be cool." Yes, I'm being a *little* facetious, but come on - nobody can say that's not in the back of their mind when you see someone sitting with one of these things at Starbucks or (insert your own local coffee shop here).
Not to mention that most Thinkpads will out-tough any MacBook. Part of Thinkpad design is ruggedness. I don't know if that applies to this little thing, but most Thinkpads have metal casings and really thick plastic bevels and ridiculously strong hinges and whatnot. They're tanks. This one probably has the ruggedness dialed back a notch or two for weight savings, but it's probably still the reason why it weighs a few ounces more than comparable machines.
A Thinkpad could literally beat up any comparable MacBook in a street fight.
mre @ Feb 14th 2008 12:26PM
"A Thinkpad could literally beat up any comparable MacBook in a street fight."
HAHAHAHAHA.
WOW man, listen to yourself.
sean @ Feb 14th 2008 12:22PM
why aren't you asking why we are still using the QWERTY keyboard layout? It's just as relevant a question. There are so many design issues at stake in the redesign of a product that affect more than looks.
zargon @ Feb 14th 2008 12:24PM
"Anyway, back to my point. Which is: Linux and Windows suck; FreeBSD and Mac OS X rules. Go suck a nut."
I am sorry, but you are an idiot.
Why in the world does linux suck, but not BSD? Could it possibly be that you are just blind Apple fanboy and OS X uses a BSD based kernel... which Apple used the BSD license to hide behind and use all the hard work of the open source community, but hardly give anything back.
You obviously know little to nothing about BSD. If you actually knew what you were talking about, you would realize that BSD is behind and less mature than linux as far as usability and user interface. Have you even tried a linux OS? From your ignorant comments, I highly doubt it. May I suggest giving Ubuntu a go? You don't even have to install it to try it, just run it from the LiveCD.
On top of that, if it was not for all the hard work of the open source community, linux and BSD combined, OS X wouldn't exist.
So shut your pie hole and stop spewing your ignorant bull crap. You are a Apple fanboy, that part is obvious, but until you actually have a clue on what you are talking about, go peddle it elsewhere.
mre @ Feb 14th 2008 12:26PM
Again, @Jeff,
"These are laptops that *demand* respect. They say "I have this laptop because I need it to do important work!" whereas a MacBook says "I have this laptop because I'm trying desperately to be cool."
DUDE! easy eaaasy. And let me just say,
I think you're feeling superior about how discreet and austere your non-mac looks, either that or youre into the aethetic of hard work and suffering and can't stand it when people bust out something pretty. I hope you're not into women, cause they can be a lot like macs, and from what I gather that would really piss you off.
Froggy @ Feb 14th 2008 12:51PM
oh god... flame on!
look, in the end, a little bit of form does matter. It should not distract from the function, but making an ugly product(and the Thinkpad _IS_ ugly) when you don't really have too, seems rather silly to me. Look at the VAIO. That looks nice.
Gian @ Feb 14th 2008 1:08PM
@Zargon
I mean Linux is not as good as FreeBSD when network performance, reliability, and security are considered. I have both FreeBSD 6.1 boxes and FC5 boxes in the lab. I prefer, by far, the FreeBSD boxes. Even when the box has clearly lower specs, the performance is better. Plus, I much rather the ports system to the yellowdog (yum) system, and surely, it's better than the RPM system.
I've tried Ubuntu, three years ago, when it was just getting traction. I liked it. It's slick. I wouldn't use it over OS X. But, they absolutely did a great job at making Linux available and usable for non-technical people. I used Mandrake for five years, before trying Ubuntu (the whole Mandriva changeover annoyed me). I know Linux pretty darned well. Just because someone doesn't like what you like, doesn't make them inexperienced or an idiot.
My post does not touch upon the user-friendliness of FreeBSD compared Linux, because FreeBSD is not user friendly in the general sense. It is, though, user-friendly in the engineering sense. I use FreeBSD machines as network servers exclusively. I would never want it on my laptop.
From some of your other posts, you sound like an IT goon (seeing your Lenovo rep). Engineers, the group I fall in, look at IT people as self-important know-nothings gouging companies with their subpar performance. Go play with your active directory and lie some more to your director about how hard your job is.
zargon @ Feb 14th 2008 1:54PM
@Gian
Ah, an engineer, we in IT think of them as self righteous, self proclaimed (which is highly debatable) know it all with no real world logic, sense or ability to communicate with anyone other than engineers. Engineers are the people that make our job in IT difficult, demanding the impossible or improvable and especially when they think they know what they are talking about and tell us how to do our job. You don't see me telling you how to do your job, I expect the same respect professionally.
If we were talking about BSD a few years back, then maybe I would give you the performance, reliability, and security. In fact, I ran a web server on FreeBSD for a while. However, due to the open source community and more concentration on linux over the years, they are pretty much on par. Ports is great, but not with out its own issues. I do tend to favor ports though, I love Gentoo and the emerge system that stems from ports. However, apt is another great implantation that is included with Debian and its variants.
I personally don't use or care much for Ubuntu. The reason I even tell people to use it is exactly what you said, they did a outstanding job at bring linux into the spot light and easy for most people to use.
Making blanket statements, like "linux sucks" does not help your cause nor does it show if you know what you are talking about or not. All it takes is one short sentence with a little re-wording to get your point across with out sounding like a ignorant moron.
mo @ Feb 15th 2008 4:49PM
Thinkpads are beautiful. The last thing we need is some Steve-Jobs-inspired "design" folks ruining the technical merits (keyboard, trackpoint, reliability, repairability) with their idea of "new and improved".
If you want to gussy yours up, knock yourself out - buy a fluorescent purple-on-white neoprene cover for it. Spray paint it orange. But leave the basics alone. Thanks.
Ethyriel @ Feb 14th 2008 7:45PM
@Zargon and Gian
Engineers make our jobs possible, and we make their jobs relevant. Quit bickering like school children, it's much more productive to get along and be on the same page.