We're not exactly sure what's going on in Toshiba land, but shortly after not-exactly-believable whispers made the rounds of the firm suddenly deciding to try its hand at making a Blu-ray player, we're now seeing reports stating that it will pull the plug on its beloved format "in the coming weeks." Citing unnamed industry "sources,"
The Hollywood Reporter is suggesting that the end may be nigh for the
HD DVD format. Jodi Sally, VP of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products, was quoted as saying that "given the market developments in the past month, Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of its recent price reductions on all HD DVD players." Of course, we aren't exactly equating said statement to waving the white flag or anything, but whatever the case, it seems the
death watch is in
full effect.
[Via
Home Media Magazine, thanks to everyone who sent this in]
posted Feb 14th 2008 8:34PM
Also, 81/19 Nielson numbers.
"B-but the attach rates!"
"I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of two little formats don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy mixed up world. Someday you'll understand that."
Say it ain't so Sam......The End
just finish hd-dvd already! no body cares about it anymore
I am sure Toshiba cares as well as Universal and Paramount.
I care.
I'm afraid that sony might do something sneaky on bluray given its history on music cds.
Without HD, how many years from now do you expect a $120 BluRay player? or lower disc prices?
Lowering prices is easy, raising them is hard. While Toshiba was slashing prices to the $120 range, Sony didn't aggressively move the bar. They avoided big price slashing by offering deals like free PS3s with a TV purchase (heck I got 3 BluRay movies for buying any brand HD TV -- and anyone wonders why media sales numbers are so high for BluRay). If Sony isn't willing to price slash to compete, they sure as hell aren't going to without competition.
(yeah, I'm a hater of both camps now ... upscaling and downloads for me)
@ Mike, Bingo! I had one of my old computers slow to a crawl due to a rootkit exploit.
@ScareyJ
Apparently you weren't around when DVD came out. You think we all payed $120 for a DVD player a year or two from when it came out ?? Are you crazy? The fact is, Toshiba was selling their low-quality component based HD-DVD players at or below cost to try and compete with Blu-Ray. That is not sustainable as a business model to make a profit. Ever wondered why Toshiba was the manufacturer of 95% of HD-DVD players sold versus Blu-ray which has 8 manufacturers? You guys need to just get over it... talk about cheap asses. Early adopters wining about paying $300 for a next gen player? Do you have any idea how expensive the early adopter fee has been in the past??
Well since more than one company is making Blu-ray players what will drive down the price of the players is good old fashioned competition! Competition just wont be able to drive the cost down below the cost of manufacturing them, just like everything else.
And now that HD-DVD is dead (yes, it's dead folks) there will be more manufacturers willing to jump into making players, thereby more competition, thereby prices lowering faster.
@ScareyJ
Sears has Samsung Blu-ray players right now for $93 and $149.
It's the FINAL final nail in the HD-DVD coffin!
how many more times will someone say its the final nail in the coffin ? :) keep going HD-DVD dont let blu-ray off the hook :)
@Tony--
There have been MANY "final" nails in the HD-DVD coffin over the past month or so. Toshiba backing out would have to be the last straw.
Personally, I'm sad to see the recent HD-DVD developments but at least now maybe we can settle on a format once and for all. I actually bought an HD-DVD player and will probably buy a Blu-Ray player when the prices come down to the $99 point.
@Tony,
I imagine they'll keep it up as long as they can keep getting a rise out of the HD-DVD apologists.
LOL at "apologists". You make it sound like HD-DVD is a terrorist organisation.
As for the format war (huh, what is it good for?). Since blueray and HD-DVD use the same form factor, anything other than a win for dual format players (ala DVD-/+R) is crap for loads of consumers, which ever way it goes.
Cleary you don't understand that HD-DVD has now become an HD-zombie. Just one final nail is not enough. You have to double-kill it, put in the final nail, remove the last straw, and shoot it in the face. It's basic science.
I wasn't being inflamitory:
a·pol·o·gist (ə-pŏl'ə-jĭst)
n.
A person who argues in defense or justification of something
Sounds apropos to me.
And just in case:
ap·ro·pos (ăp'rə-pō')
adj.
Being at once opportune and to the point.
Apologist is commonly used to describe someone who speaks in defence of a faith or cause. For this reason I found your use of the word supererogatory when used in this context.
Poo, arse, bum.
Thank god, now I can finally buy I high def player without fear of being obsolete.
Before the inevitable comments, yes, I'm aware profile 2.0 is coming out and 1.1 players will be obsolete. I will either buy a PS3 or simply wait a few months.
The point is that it's finally over and I will soon be able to use my TV to its full potential.
HOORAY!
meh, hd dvd provided more features, was setup from the get-go to have firmware updates and now its going to die. just what we need is sony controlling the entire HD disc industry. yay...
I agree Sam.
When the BD+ on that new disc (root kits are now built in: It's a feature!) decides that you've played the disc a few too many times, or that it already phoned home and "activated" as played on another player, think back to the promise that was HD-DVD, smashed by the brilliant conniving of the media empire called Sony/Disney.
Walt will be controlling your brain.
oh yeah, what I don't understand, well from what I've been hearing on these tech blogs, is that all the movies currently on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray are on their rival formats overseas. Is this entirely accurate? If it is, if HD-DVD fails in the US but lives on around the world, doesn't that still make it not exactly out of the game? You could, theoretically, get a cheap HD-DVD player and then just keep buying all the Blu-Ray movies on the other format in like the UK or something? yes? no? anybody?
That's funny, but... no! I don't know where you've been hearing this stuff, but its definitely the exception - not the rule.
If Toshiba pulls out of HD-DVD, it won't be limited to America. Blu-ray has enjoyed just as much (if not more) success in Europe as it has in America since the PS3's sales are greater there relative to the market size. Plus the six major American film studios are also the six largest international film studios.
The point is if Toshiba drops HD-DVD, then the format will cease to exist in America and internationally moreover. Sure, your old media will still play, but thats about it.
And what makes Toshiba such a better company to control the HD industry? Last I checked they both opted for DRM and neither are known for saving starving babies in Africa.
@Gremlin, um..i've been hear this on engadget and gizmodo. And they do sell HD DVD version of blu ray movies overseas. Do research before you start shooting your mouth off.
@ Sam
Show us your "research" that they sell HD-DVD movies on Blu-Ray and viceversa overseas.
http://www.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/high-definition/paramount-now-backing-blu-ray-too-204640
Great research! Check out the article that they got it from on gizmodo.
http://gizmodo.com/347299/first-paramount-blu+ray-titles-spotted-in-amazon
All it's saying is that it's either an error or has to do with HD-DVD's death. Do research before you start shooting your mouth off.
Lets all go back to cartridges /BEGIN MOVEMENT.
BetaMax for teh win!
Can't VHS technically do HD?
@Jesse
It has for 10 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-VHS
goddamn do i feel bad for my friends that bought HD-DVD players and dvd's. and im glad i waited before i pick which side im going to
It sucks to be an early adopter :(.
Luckily I am not one of them :D.
Says a man with MBA avatar :)
It is really mcihael jordan, and hes from the NBA, and the abbreviation for the macbook air is MBA. Ha Ha! Coincedince.
I have the avatar not because I own the MBA, its because I like the modified Jordan Logo! :)
But then the early adopters have had their Players and used them over the previous months, while everyone else has not.
No crisis in spending a couple of hundred bucks and buying another player. Early Adopters aren't doomed in any significant way.
No, early adopters aren't totally screwed. I own around 25 HD DVD discs, so I'll get some replay out of it. All of those are encoded in VC-1 too, no Mpeg2 on HD DVD.
The thing that pisses me off about BD is they released an underdeveloped product and claimed it was better. Over time they added (and are adding) features that weren't compatible with older players. I mean...come on. THAT is why I THOUGHT HD DVD would win... oh well.
Personally I've been with Blu-ray since day one even though I do not own the hardware to prove it. Basically, the next-gen disks are large storage/backup mediums for me. The larger the theoretical limit, the better the format.
Truth Teller:
As a loyal HD-DVD advocate for the last year, largely due to your unceasing wisdom and commentary, I cannot help but ask, does it hurt to be exposed as such an ass?
Thanks a lot, can I bill you for my player?
maybe now we can get USB add-on xbox360 bluray players?
Engadget editors have little idea of what people will buy: the individual writers report what they like (or pretend to dislike for the sake of prompting interaction). Mostly it is about shiny new toys, little else. Don't look here for technical details, environmental awareness or a host of the other important factors that should influence your decisions.
Maybe it's true -- it wouldn't be surprising given all that has happened in the past two months. However I can't help but be a bit cynical - Home Media Magazine has seemingly been a propaganda outlet for Sony, endlessly, for quite some time, beating the doom drums for HD-DVD.
Sony has played this all absolutely extraordinarily: Their PR agency has coerced and bought off all the right people at the right times (the most blatant being Netflix -- that simple activity has guaranteed that I will never be ea customer of that company), brilliantly trying to coordinate each release in clusters to make them a fatal blow. Bloody brilliant, and kudos to them. Jeers for the asshats at the HD-DVD group/Toshiba who were just brutally incompetent in the face of this kidney punching.
I hate to say it, but Sony really committed to the format. By putting BluRay in every PS3 they were able to get a jump on HD DVD disc sales. The #s are the #s and the studios chose the format that was moving more discs. Had Micro$oft really committed to the format and put a HD DVD player in every XBox 360, the HD DVD format could have emerged victorious. Oh well, I already eBayd my player. Anyone interested in 10 HD DVDs at $10 each? OK how about $8 each?
MS really wanted HD-DVD to take off because a majority of HD-DVD's were encoded with VC-1, which allowed them to sell their authoring software. Blu-Ray discs are also using VC-1, so it doesnt bother MS as much as people think.
NO... WAIT! Talk to Blu-Ray about combining them (the formats) together! So Blu-Ray can be played in a DVD player! Duh... People need the freedom to keep their DVD players while not buying a Blu-Ray Disc player! Seiously! Blu-Ray needs more types while HD-DVD format can be combined with Blu-Ray to make a new breed in HD! Yes I said "can"! :) while :(!
What?
What the hell are you blithering on about?
@Kevin,
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding here. HD DVD can't be played in regular DVD players either (unless you buy the dual-sided ones that have a regular dvd on one side). If people want HD on an optical media, they WILL have to update their player. And there are dual format players that can play both HD DVD and Blu-Ray disks.
The problem is, we don't need competing formats anymore, and no, they will not merge the technology. That would actually fragment the market even more. Then you would have HD DVD, Blu-Ray, and the hybrid competing for the same market share.
Okay, u got the point, insertalias! =]!
now all we need is for sony to bring out those hddvd exclusive movies like transformers to bluray format once toshiba packs it in..
Why is everyone so bothered about transformers? It sucked!
Final nail in the coffin?
TOSHI-OWNED
make hd-dvd writer drives for $150 and produce hd-dvd writable media for $1 a disc and yield success as the winner of the pc data storage format
Do they even have an HD-DVD writer thats even easy to find on the market??
That was a massive mistake on their part. Why didnt they make the attempt to at least get into the software/PC market, with Microsoft being there to help them out. Even though their discs had less space, if there was an abundance of them and low costs, no one would care. That is why blu-ray isnt taking off as a storage media. 25 a disc? You cant even pirate movies at that price.
HD-DVD deserved what came to them because of the f**kups they made. Im glad its over.
Anyone notice how the American Gangster dvd commercial says "Available on dual format disk for the price of one"
It doesnt even say HD DVD and you can barely see the logo at the bottom of the screen.. Pretty big movie not to push in HD DVD if you ask me, I wonder why
"Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!"
I hope that was a joke. Please god tell me that last reference was meant to be humourous.
The germans didn't surrender as well when the US dropped atom bombs on Berlin did they? Only when the Japanese and the french liberated the United States from the nazi's the war was over.
Hurray for multiple universes
seriously? you think the germans bombed PH/?
It's a quote from Animal House ... which is only on HD DVD ;)
Fair enough. Not seen the film myself but I'm guessing it would be someone like John Belushi saying it.
@Carbonize
You've not seen Animal House? I suggest you make that your next rental. Pronto. Heck, I'm almost tempted to say that they should make that movie mandatory viewing so nobody can say "I've not seen the movie" again.
John Belushi is classic!
"It's a quote from Animal House ... which is only on HD DVD"
Wrong. I have it on regular DVD.
Sources tell me ( my friends at toshiba) that Sony has offered Toshiba free rights to make Blu- ray players and have worked an exchange deal to people that take in any HD-DVD player and get $200 off any blu-ray player. Sony will cover the $200 cost as long as Toshiba allows Dreamworks and universal to release on blu-ray .. my friend told me this would happen on april 1st
April Fools? Brilliant!
Haha if that is true it almost seems like a low blow to HD-DVD users. "Here, just to show how foolish you really were, we'll accept you back into the fold if you exchange your player on April Fools".
OK, so NOW can we say that the format war is over?
I'm putting my 360 HD-DVD add-on up on Ebay tonight. It's over. Done. Kaput.
and who will buy that obsolete XBox add-on? Maybe you better sell your XBox 360 with it before that one becomes obsolete as well.
Oh, iPriest, I didn't know you were a Sony fanboy, too!
hehehehehe.... I've been saying this since the day HD-DVD came out. Blu-Ray ftw!
Michael 'Fatima' Bay ?
Toshiba, release the following:
1) A combo player for those stuck with HD DVD movies
2) A cheap Blu-Ray player so you can stick it to the PS3, hehehehe
You can thank me later ;-)
Now that Toshiba is not trying to push a format and given the loss of money already, they SURELY won't release a $150 BD player. Christ, the blu laser diode probably costs half that amount by itself.
LOL AJ.
I would thank you NOW if they did that!
Wow! Wow! Wow! I wonder if this is going to happen I guess we'll wait a couple of weeks to find out.
I think the HD DVD group should just move to a strictly data storage format and forget about movies.
Yeah, because they're doing so much better in data storage, right?
Face it, HD-DVD is over. Has been for some time. This is no different than the way every other format war has ended - it always drags on longer than people would like.
Toshiba will announce Blu-Ray players soon and that'll be that. It's not going to end in some blaze of glory like some of those emotionally invested in HD-DVD want. Nor is it going to end with Toshiba finding some magical way of preserving the format (like data storage). It's just going to go away.
My reasoning being that HD DVD are cheaper to manufacture.
Has either of DVD + or the - format lose to each other? No, they both coexist with each other. Now all DVD burners support both formats.
Honestly, we are doomed.
Sony will package invasive DRM with every blu-ray disc, and you have to buy 3 copies.
1 for your PC, 1 for your iPod, and one for your Blu-ray player.
Good going guys, way to support the devil.
Glad I bought a decent DAP then if you have to buy an extra copy to play on an iPod.
(Yes that was a joke)
(As is the iPod)
No because you will use Apple TV for your PC, iPod and TV. You will only use Blu Ray for games on your PS3 as the Xbox 360 will go down together with HD-DVD
"Sony's gonna do this, Sony's gonna do that."
SONY IS BUT ONE CORPORATION AMONG SEVERAL IN THE BLU-RAY DISC ASSOCIATION, GODDAMNIT!
iPriest, tell that to the 18 million happy Xbox 360 owners around the globe... Then look at the 8-9 million PS3 owners who are sad because they have no games (like you).
I'm sorry you wasted your money, first on the PS3, and second on crappy Apple products. :(
That picture is an epic win
Agreed. That picture is hilarious.
It doesn't really matter, because its only a matter of time before movies downloaded off the Internet are as common as itunes is today for music. And before everyone gets into the "not enough bandwidth" argument it wasn't too long ago when 5 Mbps streams on broadband were fantasy now those speeds seem slow. Sony won nothing more then what will be a hollow victory 5 years from now and this whole war will be looked on as nothing more then a gigantic waste of yet more money by Sony.
"nail in the coffin"
Toshiba: "We'll always have Paris."
Since it seems like some people don't get it:
1) Combo discs will never exist.
2) Combo players (as in both formats in one DRIVE) will never exist
[This is due to the fact that the red and blu laser techs are totally different. They are completely incompatible]
3) DVD players will continue being made, but when people realize (HINT HINT SONY!!) that Blu-ray players are also top-notch upconverting DVD players, they will start to upgrade their players to Blu-ray (though I'm guessing most will not upgrade much of their existing DVD libraries).
4) The current "combo players" that have both a blu and a red drive will stop being made just shortly after Toshiba stops making the HD-DVD players. There is no reason to sell combo drives after that--if someone has HD-DVDs, the they have a player already, and can pick up a Blu-ray player or PS3 for $300: much cheaper than a combo player.
--NOTE: Have you noticed how FEW combo players have been released lately? Even some that have (an LG and a Samsung come to mind--don't know the model numbers) have been almost immediately discontinued...
EVERYONE in the industry knows that HD-DVD is done. EVERYONE.
And as far as competition goes...who was competing with DVD? No one, it was the only new format. That will be the case with Blu-ray as well. The competition will come into play with the different manufacturers of players--of which Blu-ray has MANY and HD-DVD basically had only Toshiba (and those who repackaged Tosh players). Blu-ray player prices will begin to drop as those competing manufacturers fight it out. That's a capitalistic economy, and it's exactly what happened with DVD.
The fact the HD-DVD will soon be gone will in no way "destroy competition."
I would love to agree with your comment, except for the incorrect statement that HD-DVD uses red lasers. In fact, both formats use blue lasers for blue light's shorter wavelength. The difference lies in the discs, the 'tracks' of data on Blu-ray discs are thinner and, in order to facilitate better focus, the clear plastic coating had to be thinner. This is the reason that Blu-ray was more expensive than HD-DVD, the latter could be made in existing factories, albeit with upgraded components.
I also noticed your statement that DVD had no competing format when in fact, DVD was competing against DivX discs. The difference in that situation was that the DivX and DVD camps were able to save consumers a lot of time, money, frustration, and BS from sales clerks, by agreeing on a standard before release.
I think most people are worried that without competition Sony will be able to charge whatever they feel like and no one will have any choice but to buy their players. This is not the case as once Blu-ray becomes a unified standard then other companies will make players, and there will still be competition (it will just all be on one format).
rooshma--
Sorry, by "red" I meant HD-DVD's color/insignia (commonly just called "red" as opposed to "blue") not the color of the actual laser.
And yes, DVD did have DivX to compete with but BEFORE it really went to the consumer, as you stated. Again, perhaps they made the wrong choice as DivX is the easier format for downloadable media, etc. The same is true with BetaMax--it really was better, which is why most industry pros used Beta instead of VHS.
As to which is better between HD-DVD and Blu-ray, I really have no opinion as far as entertainment media other than to say that I think Blu-ray's potential higher capacities pose a plus--you could fit an entire season of a tv show onto one Blu-ray down the road.
But for COMPUTER media, I think Blu-ray has the clear edge due to, again, higher capacities. I can't wait to get a couple 200GB discs for $5 each and backup all my important files!
@Nate: You're thinking of the wrong DivX. It's not the codec, it was "Apple TV" that you picked up at the store. Of course, back then, the privacy advocates went nuts over the "phone home" system DivX required. But DivX was nothing more than a DVD-format disc, encrypted, and sold for $3~$5 a pop, for a 48-hour rental that you didn't need to return. Not really a format "war", as DivX never intended to be the "purchase" method, but more of a "rental" program. Betamax vs VHS was a true format war.
LOL at Nate:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/21/samsungs-hd-dvd-blu-ray-combo-player-just-in-case/