With HD DVD, things are just going from
bad, to
really bad, to
worse, to
car-crash-you-can't-stop-looking-at. You can file this one under that latter category, as
Wal-Mart has officially announced its intentions to stop
stocking HD DVD players and movies by June. According to reports, the retailer came to the decision after
Netflix and
Best Buy made announcements concerning their position in the HD format war. Susan Chronister of Wal-Mart wrote on the company's blog, "By June Wal-Mart will only be carrying Blu-ray movies and hardware machines, and of course standard-def movies, DVD players, and up-convert players." Susan went on to deliver what we consider a
total burn by adding, "if you bought the HD [DVD] player like me, I'd retire it to the bedroom, kid's playroom, or give it to your parents to play their John Wayne standard-def movies, and make space for a BD player." Look, we're not gonna say that this is it for HD DVD, but... uh, it doesn't look real great.
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
posted Feb 15th 2008 11:39AM
Toshiba's official cancellation announcement in 5...4...3...2...
Personally I blame HD DVD "supporter" Microsoft for the downfall of HD DVD. MS's fixation on "downloads are the way to go for High Def content" is foolish. Not only is downloading HD too slow, its quality isn't as good as either BluRay or HD DVD. Plus, the monthly cost for a broadband connection fast enough is out of reach for most people, espcially with the economy tanking.
MS missed a chance to deal a knockout blow to Sony and give consumers a "Killer Ap" for Vista and pad their own interest both near term and long term.
If MS has 45 Billion to spend, they would have been better off paying off Warner, Disney, Blockbuster, Netflix and the rest to go HD DVD exclusive. Even if they didn't incorporate the HD DVD drive in the 360 as they should, they should have at least had NATIVE (no external program required: see Chris Lanier's Blog at: http://msmvps.com/blogs/chrisl/archive/2008/01/25/1480420.aspx ) streaming of DVDs and HD DVDs to extenders such as the 360 from 200 disc changers. This would have killed the PS3, given Vista sales a boost and the external HD DVD drive wouldn't be useless for loyal early adopters. Once HD DVD had caught on, MS would have the time to allow networks to be built for faster, cheaper and higher QUALITY HD rental/purchase streaming down the road. As it is, they've missed a chance to put Sony out, help their bottom line and customers. As it is, BluRay fanboys have successfully convinced people that Sony's extra layer of DRM (BD-J), rootkits and players that are buggy and aren't even uniform in features are superior because they cost more and have a few gigs of extra space and a "scratch-resistant" layer. Had HD DVD won and 200 disc changers streaming HD around the house to 360s and media extenders caught on, then you wouldn't need a "scratch-resistant layer" since you would only have to put the disc in once. The HD DVD disc could have been ripped and converted for use on a portable device, and be out of inventory for use on the changer until the PMP was cleared of the HD movie. But all these wonderful things won't be unless MS acts quickly and spends $45 billion not on buying a search engine in fight it's already lost, because Sony's BD-J DRM system is Java based, and MS will never support streaming of HD content in Windows with a Sony and Java based system. We will probably see 200 disc Bluray changers from Sony, but the interoperability with Media Center/360s will be much more difficult and likely have to come from third parties.
Can anyone REALLY believe that SONY has actually won? I know it's happened, just hard to believe.
I for one welcome our new Hi-Def overlords.
its karma for betamax since betamax was actually a better product and got screwed back in the day...as a disclaimer I am NOT defending all of sony's other shitty proprietary formats (Media Stick, etc)
Best comment ever!
I do believe.
Why does everybody think Sony owns Blu-ray? As far as I know, this is not the case. They are just a huge proponent of it and a member of the BD association. The real winner here is the CONSUMER. People can now buy a hi-def player and feel comfortable knowing that it will not disappear any time soon.
i think they were going with the "if we make enough formats, ONE of them has to win... right? ......right?"
i dunno, in the end, i think bluray is the better choice.
yep, Sony is just one of 18 members of the Board of Directors for the Blu Ray association. And one of over 200 companies total in the Blu Ray association membership. It is really starting to tick me off that people are slamming Blu Ray cuz they don't like Sony. Sony is just the most visible member of Blu Ray since they have the most to lose or gain with the format war, so they've been pushing it the hardest. If you don't like Sony, then get a Blu Ray player from one of the other many companies who make stand alone players.
from the wiki: "The 'Blu-ray Disc Founder' was founded in May 2002 by nine leading electronic companies: Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, and Sony"
Actually, From Wiki:
"Sony started two projects applying the new diodes: UDO (Ultra Density Optical) and DVR Blue (together with Pioneer), a format of rewritable discs which would eventually become Blu-ray Disc (more specifically, BD-RE).[7] The core technologies of the formats are essentially similar."
And by "Sony wins" i mean from an investor stand point, are they not the biggest investor in Blu-ray?
Bye bye competition, hello monopoly. On one hand, less confusion is good, compatibility with everything is nice. On the flip side, what's keeping Sony competitive with pricing/support of their current/future Blu Rays?
Price people are willing to pay?
Given that the MSRP on most of Sony's new DRMed, Region Coded, BD movies is $45.00, I'd say it's time
for the consumers (the same ones that have "chosen" Blu-Ray) to bend over and grab their ankles.....
R
The fight now is between Blu-ray companies. The choice is here ... but on a brand level with the better format. Sorry hd dvd fanboi!
Competition will still be alive and healthy. The Bluray group has a lot more players than HD-DVD group (which is why they are basically winning).
Prices will and currently are coming down on bluray stuff, and they have to now that they need to compete with DVD which is truly the big competition.
Well iTunes and Windows Digital Media are still there. I replaced my HD-DVD player with an AppleTV and media server. I have no need to use Bluray, well, ever.
Physical media is dead to me. I look forward to it being dead for everyone else as well. I'm just wondering what BestBuy is going to put in all of that empty space once CDs and DVDs are gone. I suppose the US's lack of broadband investment will force the relics to stay around for awhile. And then there are those folks who can't let go of Vinyl so ...
Panasonic, Pioneer, Phillips, Samsung, LG, Sharp, Denon, JVC and well you know... most media player companies.
@jus10:
Where are you planning to back up all those downloads? A bluray burner would be the perfect back-up solution.
I gave up on digital distribution because of this, you store a huge library of movies then one day your drive crashes and you loose it all in the blink of an eye. You also keep running out of space, and have to constantly upgrade or add drives. No digital distributed media could be sold or exchanged between users. I cant even lend out legally obtained digital media. Worst of all the video and audio quality of downloaded media is no where near to what you get from discs.
For now and the next 10 (at least) years disc media will reign as a method of distributing SOLD video media (rentals will most likely be replaced by electronic distribution). When network bandwidth, extremely large reliable storage (holographic storage?) and more flexible DRM standards are available, then downloable media will reign.
Trying to overtake DVDs will keep sony honest
@cduran01:
Q: "Where are you planning to back up all those downloads?"
A: RAID
@AJ in the East Bay:
RAID is not a reliable backup solution. Regardless of how many drives in the setup, RAID is still plague by single point of failure.
How does Regional encoding, extra DRM, unfinished specifications, no backwards compatability, poor menu systems and interactivity, higher prices yet with exactly the same video/sound quality benefit consumers exactly...
Its a strange day when people cheer the loss of a much cheaper, less copy protected and yet identical quality format for a more expensive, unfinished product simply because of some misguided brand loyalty programmed into them from advertising.
Honestly, I think I'll skip this generation of video if its all been decided by movie studios playing games. Surely they would be better sticking to making films than messing with technology issues.
Yeah, cause DVD had a hell of a time coming down in price too.. amirite?!
Oh wait, it had VCD for competition.... hmm. Which would equate to DVD being Blu-rays competition now wouldn't it, on a relative basis?
I sure will be glad when stupid goes out of style.
So how come all this "COMPETITION" between vendors like Samsung, Sony, LG, Pioneer etc... hasn't driven down the cost of Blu-Ray players already then?
Apple TV only goes as high as 720p. Don't understand how it can replace Blu-ray...
@cduran01
Amen.
Blu-Ray is not a Sony format, its a consortium format that they are a major player in. They all have to play by the same rules and now they are competing against each other. Competition will now intensify and prices will drop faster sicne they don't have to worry about who was going to win.
@BenHobbs
Finally, someone who understands this isn't just some stupid Microsoft vs Sony war. 99% of the people on here are championing on standard or the other for absolutely no good reason. While the physical discs of Blu-Ray may be superior to HD-DVD (currently anyways), the interactivity model for Blu-Ray is a pile of crap. Unlike HD which uses xml, the Blu-Ray interactivity spec is just like OCAP (which was a complete joke) and requires a java engine to process. That coupled with the additional DRM is going to make streaming a giant pain in the ass. When physical discs go away and we're still saddled with this format (yes folks, format does not just mean what disc they go on) it's going to make the transition to streamable, sharable content much harder.
Because there is a thing called "cost." And blue diodes are not free to manufacture.
And what are you talking about with "no backwards compatability?" Am I supposed to be upset my Blu-ray player can't play VHS tapes?
My previous post was to our friend, Mr. BenHobbs.
Phantom,
Which RAID single point of failure? You mean the controller?
Here's how to fix that:
Step 1: Replace controller
Step 2: Go back to enjoying your media
Somehow I fail to see the problem.
You got the right. Anyone who prefers one option dominated by a company renowned for overpricing is an idiot..
I'm not sure how you would consider this a Monopoly? Toshiba is the only manufacturer pumping out dedicated HD players and even the Onkyo player that was scheduled to be released is a Toshiba rebadged. Meanwhile, Bluray players are currently or scheduled for release by Sony (of course), Samsung, Panasonic, Pioneer, LG, Marantz, Denon and god knows who else in the future. Meanwhile, HD DVD? Toshiba! PERIOD! Oh, and an add on for your Xbox (what ever). At least that's how it's been since the inception of HD DVD.
Sony developed the technology and have been actively marketing it and doing it well. If that means paying studios for their support? why not! Toshiba has done this with Paramount but at the end of the day, their marketing plans failed. Nothing more.
Why are you not calling VHS, CD or DVD a monopoly? Philips still received royalties for DVD technology. Is that a monopoly? NO! The only difference here is two major innovators did not see eye to eye on technology this time and decided to go their own way and go to war if neccesary.
So please. Let's stop with the Monopoly non-sense.
OK.. I'm done.. Going to watch a bluray movie now. ;-)
TonyD
Are you serious?
Where is DVD's competition?
Where was the confusion?
When has their been two movie formats?
The Fat Lady is singing....
MEOW! cat fight!
While I think that hd-dvd is a better format for the simple reason that it can play my old DVD movies, I really wish I hadn't gotten a hd-d3 for christmas now I'm gonna be stuck with a nice upconvert player and in 20 years it'll be a collectors Item.
WTF are you talking about? Every Blu-Ray Player plays SD-DVD. Get your facts right before you comment.
blu-ray is backward compatible with old dvd too duh
you know Bluray players can play DVD as well right?
Blu-Ray players can also play DVDs: http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_backwards_compatible
Jesus you blu ray fanboys are rabid, my bad i thought that blue lasers couldn't read dvd since it used a red laser, I'm really not sure why you had to low rank me I didn't even say anything bad about BD calm down you won take a break soldier the war is over.
You were low-ranked because you were the one spreading lies and acting like a fanboy.
From that comment, I am guessing you also don't know that HD-DVD AND Blu-ray BOTH use blue lasers...
"Jesus you blu ray fanboys are rabid, my bad i thought that blue lasers couldn't read dvd since it used a red laser, I'm really not sure why you had to low rank me I didn't even say anything bad about BD calm down you won take a break soldier the war is over."
@Teetdogs
Because, they mostly comment on impulse and are tightwads over the slightest misinformation displayed on the web.
Just learn from your mistakes and don't let it happen again. ;)
"my bad i thought that blue lasers couldn't read dvd since it used a red laser"
fyi, hd dvd also uses a blue laser.
Can't... resist... must... be... asshole... to someone... who was.... wrong....
You guys are ruthless.
I love how the "format war" was won with back room deals and agreements by massive corporations, as opposed to the consumers choosing which was better.
Look at the sales figures! Not including the PS3 the far more expensive BR hardware is selling at a 2x faster pace than HD-DVD hardware. The consumer made this decision. Add in the PS3 and HD-DVD didn't stand a chance without Microsoft's help in the Xbox 360.
Right. It wasn't because BD had 9x the manufacturer support and 4x the studio support (at the beginning). It was because of backroom deals.
Well at least it turned out in favor of the better format this time. I'm still upset about that whole Betamax ordeal.
Is anyone as surprised as I am, that all the girls on that "blog" are good looking? Hm...
Haha indeed. Notice that the HD DVD entry, which reads a lot like it was written by a high-schooler, is allegedly by Susan Chronister. According to the "blog" she's the one who picks out which movies they carry. I wonder if she has anything to say about their arbitrary censorship policy (i.e. not stocking a Cheryl Crowe CD for having an indirect slam on walmart). Their url is priceless too: http://checkoutblog.com/
here's the money quote: "I am very excited about this news!! This decision will make my job so much easier. While I myself bought an HD player this Christmas, primarily because my husband is a huge Jason Bourne fan..." Need I quote more?
I wouldn't believe that any of the people on that Wally World "blog" are actually employees/associates/slaves of Big Smiley ... none of them are following dress code!
FTR, I can see Blu-Ray player manufacturers pulling a Wal-Mart, knocking down the price of the players for a short time after HD-DVD is killed off, then jacking them up to a higher cost than they were before.
I simply must say it...
COULD THIS BE THE FINAL NAIL IN THE HDDVD COFFIN?????
(whether I get low ranked or not, I'm not worried...my format of choice has prevailed)
I don't plan on buying any new DVDs. Bluray, HD-DVD or normal DVDs.
BT FTW!
good for you now go somewhere where people care about your personal consumer choices.
so much hate.
I don't give a crap about wally marts dvd plans. it is irrelevant to me. the future is digital.
yes because seriously our networks can support us starting a REAL HD movie (i am talking about videos that are native to 1080p and have a proper bit rate unlike the ones you find on iTunes/XBL) and start watching it right away. oh wait, i forgot that most of us barely have anything that can download above 1MB/s (byte not bits) at a reasonable price, and those that can are only in select areas. So until Fiber or OC3 is landing right in my home we will not be getting "REAL" HD videos on demand, and btw by the time we do have OC3 running in our home the standard will probably have quadruppled and we will be watching videos at 7680x4320 resolutions and we will be back at square one; not enough bandwith.
At least there is one format to rip. Yay!
1080 x264 and a HTPC for the win!
Cool avatar AJ!
Wal Mart has unfortunate power, and i would see this as absolutely the end of HDDVD. That marketing might of the Proletariat's Mecca makes or breaks things.
But like a previous commenter stated, I think physical media is past its prime.
@ Skeezle:
Physical media past its prime? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA! You're clueless dude.
Great news?
There are really only two companies left to move:
Universal and Paramount
i mean "Great News!"
Those studios are waiting for Toshiba to let them off the hook. They probably already know.
@ AJ in the East Bay
I believe Universal's exclusivity contract with Toshiba just expired recently and they haven't renewed - so technically nothing is holding them back from going Blu-Ray. Not sure about Paramount though.
Damn... can't believe the High Def format war is ending this way. A year ago Blu Ray looked like the ones in trouble...
The need to sell. You They will have all the electronics manus building BR - lower cost, more competition and no confusion. Sony won in the end because of the once-questionable-decision to put BR in the PS3....they put 8+ million BR players in homes before HD-DVD even hit 1.5 million.
It is done.
alright, somebody from engadget needs to photochop a HD logo on the Black Knight, and Blu-ray logo on King Arthur.....
BluRay: Now stand aside, worthy adversary.
HD: 'Tis but a scratch.
BluRay: A scratch? Your arm's off!
HD: No, it isn't.
BluRay: Well, what's that then?
HD: I've had worse.
BluRay: You liar!
HD: Come on you pansy!
Nice picture edit... lol
I don't understand this so called format war, the war was over in 1998 with the release of D-VHS. C'mon, does anyone buy those coasters nowadays? I know I get all my hi-def content on D-VHS, the format of choice for everyone for the next millennium!!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-VHS
lol your joking right? sure it may be nice for archiving HD. but there is no way that a consumer would play a tape for their format.
lol the funny thing is it is a superior format storage wise recorder/player wise if it didn't lack random access and all the cool extras of disc media it would be far greater hell when I shoot HD its to tape or HDD/SSD
My question is, when is Toshiba gonna let poor Universal and Paramount off the hook. Come on guys.
Patience, my young Padawan...
When Walmart doesn't want to carry your product anymore, you are officially done.
Hmm....maybe I can get an A30 for less than $100 soon, that'd be sweet. Honestly, the only reason I like this is because HD DVD is slashing prices on everything trying to get sales back up. I've been goin crazy buying HD DVDs (best buy buyone get one free, almost all internet sellers are 50% or more, etc) I got the add on for the xbox, so not out too much, but would just like to use the 1080p on my tv with the A30. The xbox drive will only do 1080i through component and hdmi, 1080p through vga. which of course i don't have.
Hopefully the 60gb ps3s my hastings has will go back on sale to $399. If not i'll still get a blue ray player, and probably an apple tv too.
I REALLY like HiDef media :)
Unless movies are $10 or less, I see no real reason to go to any hi def format. DVDs still look great to me on my standard def TV. Plus I download any shows I want to see temporarily from bit torrent. I gots to have my Top Gear, Dr Who, and Torchwood, and you cant get that here in the US.
Welcome to 2008, get an HDTV. ;)
And noone will ever need more than 128kb or RAM. Seriously, have you seen how much better digital media looks than DVD? It's not VHS -> DVD but it's still really, really noticeable. I get OTA HD TV and i hate going back to SD TV (When the signal gets shitty, yay rabbit ears)
Nuts...I still had my fingers crossed for Laserdisc. Just imagine how many terabytes you could stuff on something that big now...
I'm never buying Blu-Ray. Can these players be used for upconversion of DVD's?
If these players are the PS3, sure.
Is there a Blu-ray (or HD-DVD) player that does not up-convert? Where does all this misinformation come from?
cduran, i think he meant was renting hd movies through apple tv. I agree I wouldn't buy and download movies for that reason, similar to xbox live's system. what you gonna do, buy 10 xbox harddrives? no thanks. but renting through apple tv is great since it dosn't matter the format.
Right on the money. No Pun intended.
I paid only 99 for my hd-player. Got my use out of it. Wont be buying a blu-ray until they go to at least 100 bucks.
Prediction:
July 4, 2008
Announcement of blu-ray Xbox 360 add-on
Oct 15, 2008
Announcement of Xbox 360 with Built-in blu-ray player
Oct 16, 2008
PS3 beginning of the end, next console please.
+1
Yep. The PS3 better put the focus back on gaming because the competition will be fierce on the blu-ray player market and the media hub market. Not to say that the gaming market isn't competitive, but Sony did just fine with their PS2.
Unless...perhaps they don't care to win the gaming console war because of all the royalties pouring in from BD sales?
Actually this signifies the beginning of major days of video piracy... Look $25-$40 per movie is just outrageous... and all you people out there talking about renting movies on Apple TV and XBOX 360 don't seem to mention that fact that you don't get to keep those movies... you can just watch them in 24 hours. Look for pirated movie downloads to become much more popular in the coming days.
Blu-Ray has the huge edge only because of the PS3... I would bet there have been many more standalone players sold on the HD-DVD side of things... but now there will be no choice... we will get whatever the Blu-Ray group (not Sony guys... they are just part of the group) wants us to have... and last time I checked you couldn't touch a Blu-Ray player for less then $350.
How is this good for us comsumers that the more expensive techonology with the better DRM protection has won? If you are rooting for Blu-Ray why are you? Their benefits on the consumer side don't even come close to the benefits for the movie studios, etc... hollywood is all about protecting their rights and Blu-Ray does that the best.
I personally have 4 HD TVs in my house and don't see any reason to pull the trigger on an HD video disc format... sure you can get some movies free when buying either format but who wants to pay $25-$40 for the movies when DVDs are in the $9-$19 range? And renting HD movies... please... Apple TV??? XBOX??? What the heck is wrong with Pay Per View?? With Comcast around here I watch most of my HD using On Demand, etc...
I don't get why people are so excited about Blu-Ray... how is it so much better than HD-DVD? How does it justify the hefty price? Or are most of the Blu-Ray fanboys just PS3 owners that already have the player?
Great post. I stopped buying DVDs three years ago because they got so easy to er, "back up". For the BDA to think they have an iron-clad rip-proof disc is ludicrous. Data storage is getting incredibly cheap and all these CE manufacturers are coming out with media streamers that play all sorts of files. There are a lot of arguments about bandwidth and the sort but at the end of the day the "internets" will be flowing with a stream of HD torrents.
Have fun, BDA!
I don't want to own movies any longer - either bought or ripped. I'm happy to pay $20 a month to get 18 or so BR movies each month from Netflix. So the protections don't mean anything to me. And the cost of BR movies is inconsequential.
good post, but you need to remember that once we only have one format, and everyone is making only one type of player, and all the studios are pressing only one kind of disc, the prices will drop very rapidly. Plus you have to figure in all the people who are sitting on the fence right now, waiting for one format to win before they jump into the HD video market. Also remember that when DVD first came out, the prices were quite high and then slowly dropped down to about, what, $15 for a DVD brand new now? Blu-Ray will follow the same trend.
Wait....Wal-Mart has a blog?
Yeah, they use migrant workers to cool their servers as well from what I hear.
@Michael:
Zing! Insensitive but absolutely hilarious!
Don't bag on WalMart. Whenever I don't want to find something, I go there and I'm never disappointed. AND now we don't have to worry about all those annoying privately owned hardware stores and pharmacies taking up potential WalMart parking lot space. There are no longer any more of them in our little town.