Sony announces PS-LX300USB USB turntable, ready to fight next format war against 8-track

Apparently Sony found out they just don't make 'em like they used to and whipped up a belt-driven USB turntable: the PS-LX300USB. It'll export your 33s and 45s through Sound Forge Audio Studio (bundled) and has its own pre-amp, but Sony, you're living in the past, man. It'll go for $150 next month -- just sell off a Northern soul single or two to cover costs.

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 3:05AM]

Vinyl is my choice when I want to *listen* to music. Sure I use MP3 and an iPod, but that's really for work or for background music.

When I actually want to listen to an album it's Vinyl all the way!

[AlexP @ Feb 26th 2008 3:38AM]

Because irregular analog sources are better than quality digital ones.

[teel @ Feb 26th 2008 4:45AM]

In fact with decent equipment irregular analog sources ARE better than your average lossy compression that most people seem to prefer these days for some reason that is beyond me.

Besides, listening to vinyl is much more fun with all the rituals that fiddling with your iPod ;)

That said, I wouldn't buy some cheap Sony crap to listen to my records...

[AlexP @ Feb 26th 2008 5:50AM]

FYI I was referring to CDs, not the MP3 crap you get from Limewire.

You know, 12 tracks filling 700 megabytes?

There's a reason why record companies (along with portability and everything) moved away from vinyls, you know.

[robotrock @ Feb 26th 2008 8:23AM]

There sure is a reason and it has nothing to do with audio quality.

The only digital medium that can come close to vinyl for quality is SACD or DVD-A ...and how many albums are out on those?

[JayKeaton @ Feb 26th 2008 9:42AM]

Yeah, so some guy said that vynil was a lot better than CDs and music DVDs so suddenly everyone is on the bandwagon? You guys would believe anything if it was told to you..

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 3:09AM]

That said, I don't use a plastic toy like the Sony in the artcile as a source...

Expensive audiophile snobbery ftw :)

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 26th 2008 3:55AM]

Nah... all digitally mastered music stored in high quality digital audio formats (as in 96KHz 32-bit uncompressed audio) ftw.

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 4:07AM]

Well I have heard a very nice SACD setup which was the first time I've thought that there is hope for high quality digital audio, unfortunately the format seems to have stalled and music in general, apart from the fairly slow release of 180gsm recordings seems destined to download content only.

I'm as much to blame as anyone, as even me, a devotee to vinyl; I still buy far more music on iTunes than anywhere else.

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 26th 2008 4:30AM]

Now talk about irony, a total audiophile buys music on itunes LOL...

Illegal music downloads (but in Lossless Monkey Audio (APE) or FLAC) ftw.

OK, enough blaming Dani, will try to look somewhere else...

[happy_penguin @ Feb 26th 2008 3:10AM]

If Sony is living in the past then so are scores of vinyl fans. Maybe vinyl has something to offer that CD and mp3 doesn't. Lots of people are seeking out vinyl and many would like to convert it to mp3. Also, there's plenty of music which isn't available on CD. There is a need for good turntables.

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 3:53AM]

Well vinyl does have a lot of drawbacks, for example you only get about 25 mins per side of an album before flipping it over and the cost of a good quality turntable / cartridge / preamp etc. is *way* more than what one would pay for a CD player, *but* in terms of quality it absolutely and utterly blows CD into the weeds.

Of course, none of that really applies to the device in this article, and even with the best LP12 setup money can buy, all that fidelity would be lost if you converted it to MP3.

[happy_penguin @ Feb 26th 2008 4:05AM]

Regardless these devices fill a need. As I said, some things just aren't available on CD. I wouldn't use a device such as this on my hifi system. I already have a good old Pioneer turntable for that. But I do have some albums I would like to convert to mp3 for portable listening because I can't get them on CD or from iTunes.

[MasterOfMagic @ Feb 28th 2008 7:46PM]

The record companies love vinyl. What other format destroys itself, is read-only, and has insanely fanatical devotees willing to back it?

[bill g @ Feb 26th 2008 3:52AM]

Really great music was released on Vinyl. You've just never experienced it. Maybe you don't know anyone over 35 years old.

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 26th 2008 3:48AM]

I have a cassette/vinyl-to-CD-or-MP3 business, and while it's not a big thing (not even small, it's tiny.. more like a hobby I get paid for), you'd be surprised of how much cassettes and vinyl records are out there... I saw ALOT of them in just a few weeks, and being advertised to a very small group of people...

LPs and cassettes (esp. cassettes) are still being used in huge quantities, even if they don't sell them anymore at any place...

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 4:01AM]

I still occasionally use my casette player :)

It's a Sony too, so almost on-topic; it's the only kit I own which is able to get near the quality of a turntable and is far better sounding than DAT. Thing is, this was a model from pretty close to the end of the Casette era and was about as good as they got, so it's not a big ask to expect it to pretty much always deleiver stellar performance.

People assume that newer is best, but there are so many older items which have heaps of value in them. From a well aged wine to a classic sports car, the comparisons with digital are similar. Take for example interconnects; I've seen people getting fanatic with rabid intensity over crap like HDMI, yet I would bet money no-one would be able to tell a HDMI signal from a good quality component connection.

Let's not even get started on TOS/SPDIFF vs. a resonabe quality analogue connection.

[John C. Dailey, Ph.D. @ Feb 26th 2008 12:30PM]

Good for you...

My 50-year-old brother-in-law has my 1986 system which he plays everyday:

Denon Table w/ Moving Coil Pickup/Preamp
Denon Preamp
Denon Amp
Denon Tuner
Audio Control Equalizer
Nakamichi 482Z Cassette Deck
Kyocera CD Player
OHM 3 Speakers
CWD Cabinet
Monster Cables
and my entire LAST treated vinyl collection.

We now have 3 sound-sensitive cats (who we love...) and a Bose Sound Dock for the iPod.

Sigh... I now have a quiet hobby, nature photography.

Peace.
- John (or Dr. John to my students...)

[Steve McGinn @ Feb 26th 2008 12:42PM]

what about if you mix with vinyl...there is a good market for something like this

i only know of one other USB turntable from ion but that one is $50 less

[Jason @ Feb 26th 2008 4:03AM]

This might be perfect gift for my father's bday. Good looking out Engadget.

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 4:14AM]

Funny thing, I only recently switched back to vynil (well, 8 years or so).

I saw a movie called Almost Famous (great movie if you haven't seen it btw), the movie has a great soundtrack and my first thought was that I must get a copy of it, then I realised I have most of the songs on vynil, but I had not had a good turntable for years.

Long story short, I went to my local Hi-Fi store with a plan to spend a few hundred quid on a decent budget turn table, and ended up maxing out out two credit cards on a new revolving center piece for my home theater / hi-fi setup :)

[LennyMan @ Feb 26th 2008 4:26AM]

Forget the vinyl... I'm more interested in the fact that there is a hot looking British girl who understands technology.

Please tell me you have a Triumph Spitfire and love Real Ale, then my fantasy will be complete x

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 26th 2008 4:35AM]

Ah damn you Lenny, just when I said I'd not look at Dani anymore :-P

[LennyMan @ Feb 26th 2008 4:53AM]

DarkLight: Your only fooling yourself... :oP

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 26th 2008 4:55AM]

No, really, you made me read dani's post again...

Just to remember it was the one I had already read

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 6:32AM]

@Lenny, I love real ale, guiness and Newcastle brown and of course the occasional glass of white wine.

While I do not currently own a Spitfire, I have restored a couple of Stags and a TR7 before now and still drive a '77 MKII (I have no problems getting my hands oily for those horrible old simplex chains). Much as I like the Spitfire, I always feel drawn to the underdogs like the Stag and TR7... I just have a thing for "damaged goods" ;)

[LennyMan @ Feb 29th 2008 7:04AM]

Omigod!.... I think I've just found the perfect woman x

[Laura @ Feb 26th 2008 4:49AM]

I disagree that Sony are 'living in the past'. I bought one of the new ION USB turntables last month (although I just have it hooked up to my speakers, haven't used the USB function yet), and the one store that had any in stock had them right in the window. And they sell for near RRP on ebay. So I'm assuming there is a lot of growing demand for turntables.

People are remembering how great the analogue quality is and it's cool for kids to be buying these massive retro discs. Also I've noticed Virgin and HMV have greatly increased their vinyl sections and selections.

Maybe it's just a temporary comeback, but I don't think vinyl will ever become obsolete.

[trevor @ Feb 26th 2008 5:04AM]

Who says turntables are figments of the past!? Pfft! Give me something to compete with a Technics 1200 series deck, and I'll listen. The Mk2's have remained unchanged since the 70's, with the Mk5's only recently making their appearance as a noteworthy upgrade.

Screw analog-to-MP3 converters; give me a good MP3-to-analog converter, like Final Scratch!

http://www.stantondj.com/v2/fs/whatisfs.asp

It's the best technology you'll never use outside of a club! ;)

[boyo @ Feb 26th 2008 5:22AM]

You don't have to be a big audiophile to notice that vinyl offers better quality than mp3s and even cd's. No longer DJs still use vinyl - because the dynamics it offers are far superior than a CD (which is still compressed music, have in mind. ALL digital is compressed in practice, even lossless) and that is important when you turn up the volume in a club.

Of course, it can't compete with them because of the size of vinyls, their shorter life, price, etc. But there is a following for it. Plus vinyls today don't break /wear off that quickly. I would not get this Sony crap though. I'd recommend Pioneer or Numark - they never stopped making turntables, in fact - they have made the turntable much much better than it ever was.

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Feb 26th 2008 5:46AM]

Actually, there are even optical turntables.. whoever gets one, may be called "l33t audiophile".. because these things are *expensie*, rare and hard to get

http://metwww.epfl.ch/lecteur_disques/MainLectDiscE.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

[whothehellareyu @ Feb 26th 2008 8:10AM]

I"m sorry, But I have to say that's the best headline I've read in months. Yay

[Dan Davis @ Feb 26th 2008 8:53AM]

I love my PS-LX250H Sony turntable that I bought a few years back. My only problem with it is that the replacement needles cost so damn much. On Sony's website they cost $55.52 (http://servicesales.sel.sony.com/ecom/accessories/web/productSearch.do)... I only paid $120 for the damn record player! Does anyone know a site that sells the needles on the cheap?

[DJ @ Feb 26th 2008 9:13AM]

My wife is making me buy this so that I can burn ONE album, Disco Noel, which has never been available on CD. As much as I would like to actually BURN the album, I don't think that's what she has in mind.

[granny down east @ Feb 26th 2008 2:54PM]

As soon as you digitize that album, put in on the intarwebs, pleez.

[CosterMonger @ Feb 26th 2008 10:19AM]

what -- no lasers?

as @DarkLightConnection Unbanned, mentioned

[MosquitoControl @ Feb 26th 2008 10:28AM]

Nice to see these coming from a more reputable brand.

I'm a large vinyl fan. Most of the music I listen to is released on vinyl, sometimes only on vinyl (bands seem to love putting their demos out as a 7".)

I've got plenty of test presses from small hardcore bands on my walls and plenty of crates full of releases.

[Zoesch @ Feb 26th 2008 10:38AM]

Good ISIS reference in your name.

And yes, that's the reason I still have a turntable (Along with some records that were never re-released in CD like some of the early Agathocles records) as I still get a few 7" and 12" singles and splits from new bands.

[manfesto @ Feb 26th 2008 10:40AM]

Can we please stop the continuous spread of misinformation that vinyl by nature sounds better than CD?

From one of my favorite slashdot posts (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=416360&cid=22022822)

"Yup. 24-bit precision gives you almost 17 million values. Assuming a total groove width of 2 mil (50 microns), the maximum excursion is physically bounded at about half that or you'll end up with the cutter over in the next groove... maybe a little more, but not much. So 50 microns of width divided by 17 million gives ups about 3 × 10^-12 meters, or about 0.03 angstroms....

Now, to put that in perspective... The estimates I've seen for the diameter of a hydrogen atom are about 1 * 10^-10 meters, give or take. That would make the resolution of a 24-bit digital signal equivalent to an analog cutter whose resolution is just about a 30th the width of a hydrogen atom... well beyond what the laws of physics allow.

A typical particle of PVC, as best I could ascertain from a quick web search, would be 100,000 times as large. This puts vinyl at about 10-11 bits of resolution, practically speaking. Don't get me wrong, I think vinyl sounds better than CDs in many cases, but that's because of awful digital mastering practices---overcompressing the signal, audio engineers who can't hear above 12kHz doing the mix, overhyped highs and lows to compensate for craptastic sound systems, etc. It's not because vinyl is inherently better; it's because audio production from the vinyl area was inherently better. Don't get me started on the Disneyana AutoTune-until-your-ears-bleed style of recording we're getting out of the industry today. When it comes to an audio delivery format, there's a certain degree of "garbage in, garbage out" at work....."

That's right, Vinyl is comparable to about 11-bit digital audio, vs. 16-bit, 44.1 KHz digital CD audio.

There's also Nyquist's law to consider - essentially, to recreate and original signal, you must sample it at twice the frequency. The human ear can hear frequencies between 20Hz and 20KHz, meaning that with a sample rate of 40KHz, you can recreate every frequency the human ear can hear. Digital CDs have sample rates of 44.1 KHz, and they're often downmixed from masters sampled at 96KHz or higher. Any loss you have from digital compression you can't physically hear.

The reason why most modern CD doesn't sound nearly as good as vinyl is due to record companies over-compressing the living hell out of their music, and most mainstream music just isn't worth listening to. However, a properly mastered CD (like the compression-free sounds of Los Lonely Boys, or classical or jazz CDs from reputable labels) will ALWAYS sound better than its Vinyl equivalent.

Say you like Vinyl because of the large album art. Say you like Vinyl because of the nostalgia. Say you like vinyl because it's a more connected listening experience - but don't say that it's a superior format to CDs.

// And yes, I do own lots of Vinyl. My player is hooked up to a 15W tube amp and Kenwood towers. I'm also a computer engineer and have taken classes in signal processing.

[KC @ Feb 26th 2008 1:53PM]

Thank you for that post!

One thing that I do not miss with my vinyls are the dust that cause pops. Where I grew up, I had to deal with the humidity and the fungus/mould that would grow on the records. Yes, record storage was a problem, and we had to get heaters and de-humidifiers to keep the records dry.

I do agree that properly mastered CDs do sound better.

My only wish is a company like Sony, to start an online SACD store, and I'm not even sure why they haven't done that yet, as that would really be an iTunes killer.

[John B. @ Feb 26th 2008 2:47PM]

manifesto quoted: "Yup. 24-bit precision gives you almost 17 million values. Assuming a total groove width of 2 mil (50 microns), the maximum excursion is physically bounded at about half that or you'll end up with the cutter over in the next groove... "

That's just plain wrong. The width of the groove has nothing to do with maximum of excursion of the groove. Since the early '50's recording lathes have been automated to vary the pitch and depth of the cut to accomodate the demands of the signal.

See here http://www.zumagroup.com/products/products.aspx
for an explanation and a modern example.

[Dani @ Feb 26th 2008 4:46PM]

I don't think I said vinyl was a superior format, what I said was that the music I listen to sounds better on it, *way* better in fact.

Actually I do have a small number of CD's which sound absolutely fantastic (unfortunately, mere dozens from the 600 or so I own). Jarre's Zoolook, Frankie goes to Hollywood's Welcome to the Pleasure Dome and The Eagles, Hell Freezes Over come to mind right away as particularly good sounding CD's.

I agree with what has been posted elsewhere in this article, I believe it's probably less to do with the physical format and more to do with the engineering and production during recording and mastering.

If anyone want's a really good example of CD Vs. vinyl to see what most vinyl fans mean, if you have the chance try a blind A/B test of something like the Alman Brothers, Beginnings or some Stevie Ray Vaughn (Couldn't Stand the Weather is *amazing* on 180GM). I swear to you, it's like someone has rammed cotten wool in your ears when the CD is playing.

[Iridium @ Feb 26th 2008 11:37AM]

Vinyl sounds better than CDs because the sound engineers that worked on mastering the audio for vinyl were far more dedicated and talented than the majority of sound engineers mastering CD's today.

Pretty much sums up the whole argument. CDs are a much better format and can sound better but they don't because of how easy it has become to transfer to a CD. The art of transfering music has pretty much been lost.

What really pisses me off is the garbage new trasfers of old CDs. My ex-girlfriend stole some of my old CDs and I replaced them. The new disc of one CD I got in 1994 was pressed in Mexico and probably mastered from MP3s since they would probably be a lot easier to find that an original master. The new disc sounds horrible. I actually downloaded some good high quality MP3 versions of the songs and they sound better.

The Dave Mathew's Band Best of Whats Around greatest hits sounds fantastic. A rare example of making a good CD.

[Donkeyshins @ Feb 26th 2008 4:21PM]

If you are serious about ripping vinyl to a digital format, buy a decent turntable and cartridge and then get one of these: http://www.hagtech.com/ripper.html.

It'll sound better than the Sony and probably be less damaging to your vinyl collection.

[Big John @ Feb 26th 2008 4:48PM]

Not sure who the target consumer is here. Belt-driven for converting the old vinyl stuff? Most people that care enough to convert are snobbish enough to stay the hell away from belts.

[wiz420 @ Feb 26th 2008 7:00PM]

Many modern audiophile turntables are belt-driven. If you use your turntable to scratch or mix, then you want to stay away from the belt-drive.

[Nitin Kumar @ Feb 27th 2008 3:29AM]

*Sigh* I can only sit back and wonder when I can afford that great quality which vinyl provides.

[keef @ Feb 27th 2008 4:48AM]

When I want to listen to a DJ set, I go for mp3s, because they can handle longer than an hour and 20 minutes continuously.

When I want to listen to music that is dynamic (i.e. it gets quiet in spots and it's okay if it suddenly gets loud and makes you jump out of your skin) I go for CD's.

When I want to listen to music that is loud all the time I go for vinyl.

Quality is a red herring. All three formats are inherently weak, with mp3 being the worst.

Some music is better on vinyl than CD. Some music is better on CD than vinyl. Some music is best in mp3s.

Life is all about choices!!!

[AudioGalaxy @ Mar 6th 2008 11:23AM]

If this can preserve your music from vinyl LPs and your parents records into a format that is easier to sport about, I say go for it!
There is great music from other countries that were never re-released on CD format or are OOP so if you can take a fabulous vinyl record and convert it on to your computer and re-burn it into CD or mp3 format for portability and preservation reasons, more power to you!

[John Sullivan @ Mar 31st 2008 3:34PM]

Okay, now that most everyone's fallen in love with Dani and (hopefully) had time to get over it, back to the topic. These are on store shelves... has anybody bought and reviewed one yet? Puh-leez don't make me be the first!