Microsoft lowered Vista requirements to help Intel sell incompatible chipsets

So now that the "Vista Capable" lawsuit is a full-blown class action, the judge has unsealed all 158 pages of emails between Microsoft execs trying to sort out what went wrong with the sticker program. While bits and pieces have been blacked out, what remains is still fairly incredible -- although Intel's 915 chipset was initially rejected as incompatible with Vista, MS execs flatly admit that "In the end, we lowered the requirements to help Intel make their quarterly earnings so they could continue to sell motherboards with the 915 graphics embedded" and "We are caving to Intel. We worked the last 18 months to drive the UI experience and we are giving this up." On top of that, it seems that the company was getting direct feedback from retailers that the stickers were confusing, with Wal-Mart appealing directly to HP to pull Vista Capable stickers from low end machines, and an MS exec saying that "I was in Best Buy listening to people and can tell you this did not come clear to customers. We set ourselves up." That's pretty damning, if you ask us -- and the complete emails, linked below, are full of similar bombshells. Looks like this case may have some serious legs after all.

Disclaimer: Nilay's a lawyer, but he's not your lawyer, and none of this is legal advice or analysis.

Read - Seattle Post-Intelligencer coverage of the case
Read - PDF of all the emails

[Mike @ Feb 28th 2008 12:19PM]

"Disclaimer: Nilay's a lawyer, but he's not your lawyer, and none of this is legal advice or analysis."

Is this going to be the standard suffix for all of Nilay's posts now?

[insertAlias @ Feb 28th 2008 12:23PM]

He puts disclaimers like that on all his posts about legal issues. He's had a few different ones he's used.

[MadMike @ Feb 28th 2008 12:29PM]

Lawyers have a legal obligation to disclose that they are lawyers. Also, if someone used one of his writings as legal advice and it went south - that person could hold the lawyer liable. Unless, he puts a disclaimer saying that he is not anyones lawyer and the post isn't to be used as legal advice.

We live in an overly litigious world - Even coffee needs a warning label. Actually, its kind of pathetic how bad its gotten.

[Mike @ Feb 28th 2008 12:34PM]

I know, I know. Engadget should take all the steps they can to defend themselves. I just don't see people using content from a gadget news website as legally defensible material in their courtroom arguments.

[Nilay Patel @ Feb 28th 2008 12:47PM]

It's not Engadget on the line here, it's me personally -- if some investor makes a decision that goes bad based on my judgment, they could potentially sue because I do respond to people personally in comments like this. It's unlikely, but I'd rather not risk my career over a short disclaimer. Unless you're willing to pay my malpractice insurance?


(Now get back on topic!)

[Ray-- @ Feb 28th 2008 1:10PM]

Nilay, yes, I am willing to pay your malpractice insurance.





*DISCLAIMER*
the posts made by Ray-- on this site are his opinion only and are in no way binding on him ever especially when it comes to paying money.

[Tired_ @ Feb 28th 2008 1:16PM]

Ever since a certain Apple product post was made and the effect it had, I think Engadget is justified in covering their ass in any way they feel the need to. The world is watching.

[Jay Park @ Feb 28th 2008 2:24PM]

nilay's a hot chick sounding name...

[Roofus @ Feb 28th 2008 4:05PM]

@Mike, some people are just THAT stupid.

@Jay Park, I second that seemingly vapid remark.

[MadMike @ Feb 28th 2008 12:21PM]

So they spend a few billion dollars and say "we're" sorry and then go do it again and hope they don't get caught the next time. Nothing will actually change. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[DaveTheMan @ Feb 28th 2008 12:21PM]

Wow after getting fined by the UN, looks like they are going to get hammered at home too.

[Jeebus @ Feb 28th 2008 12:24PM]

The UN fined them? Do you mean the EU?

[OneLove @ Feb 28th 2008 2:52PM]

..and NATO

[giantenemycrab @ Feb 28th 2008 4:12PM]

Don't forget Al-Qaeda!

[Reginald @ Feb 28th 2008 6:42PM]

...and what about the Justice League?

[skulldriveshaft @ Feb 28th 2008 8:10PM]

Now wouldn't that be a strategic strike against Microsoft, the freakin United Nations laying down International Law, BONUS if they deploy peacekeepers and surround HQ.

[itsnotabigtruck @ Feb 28th 2008 11:40PM]

C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!

[Jeebus @ Feb 28th 2008 12:22PM]

So my Vista UI experience could have been better was it not for Intel's crappy 915 chipset? Thanks MS for crapping on your own product and hence the consumers who bought it.

[freakmarket @ Feb 28th 2008 5:24PM]

This is insane ... it drives me nut when people run out and by the cheapest computer they can find then gripe about performance.

[Ghen @ Feb 28th 2008 6:02PM]

You think Jeebus would have the foresight to buy a better computer.

[Jeebus @ Feb 28th 2008 6:47PM]

No, my PC is fine. MS admits to lowering the bar on Vista, thus resulting in worse UI experience on any computer. In other words, to support Intel, Vista is not as cool as it could have been.

[eX @ Mar 1st 2008 6:27PM]

Oh, cry me a fucking river. Vista runs just fine on that chipset. It's all the crapware that OEM's put on computers that make them run like ass. Sticker says Vista capable, so it means the machine will run at least the lower end Vista. I don't know where people get the idea that they should be able to run ultimate with all features enabled or something on a $500 machine. Ultimate and aero does run fine when freshly installed on this: p4 3.0, 512 ram, intel gma950 onboard gfx, 80GB 7200rpm sata hdd. Not the best experience I've seen of course, but it's perfectly usable. Like someone said before, if you base your purchase on a sticker, you deserve to get screwed. Do some basic research or ask sales people/techs at the store before spending big money. Should be obvious for any high $ product.

[dvdivx @ Feb 29th 2008 12:13PM]

Yes but Jeebus can turn Vista into XP

[Jeebus @ Mar 2nd 2008 10:32AM]

"Vista runs just fine on that chipset"

You don't seem to get the point. Vista runs fine on that chipset *exactly* because MS lowered their requirements, i.e. they removed stuff from Vista that couldn't run on that chipset.

[Mike @ Feb 28th 2008 12:23PM]

Microsoft should have to send out coupons for a free Vista upgrade, or rebates good for discounts on a new PC. Maybe even a check of $100 to each affected user. This is really very sleazy of Microsoft.

[DaveTheMan @ Feb 28th 2008 12:40PM]

you know what I meant

[Mr. S. @ Feb 28th 2008 12:26PM]

MS should of just made the sticker say... Shitty with XP, shittier with Vista.

[erislover @ Feb 28th 2008 12:29PM]

Buy AMD.

[makishima @ Feb 28th 2008 12:37PM]

Apples and Oranges sir. This is an Intel CHIPSET not a CPU. Please go home now. (PS: This is not AMD hate I still have a 3400+ in my comp till I build a new one)

[erislover @ Feb 28th 2008 2:52PM]

makishima, 'twas meant to support Intel's competition, not solve this problem.

[Alex Padilla @ Feb 28th 2008 12:30PM]

My dad bought 2 or 3 "Vista Capable" laptops late last year. I wonder if he can get in on this lawsuit. Anyone know?

[BigBloke @ Feb 28th 2008 12:34PM]

I don't wish to state the obvious but...Google

[Ellianth @ Feb 28th 2008 12:34PM]

It's a waste of time. All that's gonna happen is microsoft is gonna pay an insane amout of money, lawyers are gonna get a ton of money, and all the people jumping on this little band wagon are gonna get like 10 dollars a pop.

People need to learn to do research. All this crying over 10 dollars really isn't worth it.

[Reid @ Feb 28th 2008 2:15PM]

Maybe he'll get a $10 Microsoft software credit. No actual cash.

Speaking of which, the Microsoft Home Usage Program no longer seems to offer Mac versions of Office. Oh well, I'll have to find an alternate way to procure it.

[MHuynh @ Feb 28th 2008 2:42PM]

@Alex: as a matter of fact, there is a way your Dad can get involved in this class action lawsuit.

http://blogs.computerworld.com/heres_how_to_become_part_of_the_vista_junk_pc_lawsuit

[FoxHoundADAM @ Feb 28th 2008 12:31PM]

Good to know MS was doing all they could to make teh best possible product. No wonder Vista blows to bad, the cut it off at the knees so I could run it on my 6 year old P4 with 256 of RAM....well kinda.

[Scott @ Feb 28th 2008 2:58PM]

Um no...That's not at all what this is about. It's about a misleading sticker. If they did "cut it off at the knees" then this misleading sticker wouldn't be misleading in the first place.

[fanboi @ Feb 28th 2008 12:32PM]

hey MS, now do you see the advantage of controlling both hardware AND software? It's less confusing/complicated and you can ensure your software is compatible without sacrificing the product experience.

Oh yeah, and you don't have to break any laws to sell your 'wares.

[Tony @ Feb 29th 2008 12:25AM]

I know why you're low ranked; you're on a Mac.
Closed system, closed minded.




Disclaimer: Tony is a commenter, but he's not your commenter, none of this is legal fanboyism or biased in any way.

[Hinhale @ Feb 28th 2008 12:33PM]

The reason the i915-chipsets never received aero capable WDDM drivers, was marketing, pure and simple.
They figured they'd get people to upgrade their computers in order to take advantage och all the Aero eyecandy.

I've had no problems with Quartz under OSX och Compiz under Linux with the i915, so the power's there (not saying it's a powerful chipset, mind you, just powerful enough).

[Sporkinum @ Feb 28th 2008 2:01PM]

I don't know about the 915 chipset, but the 945 here on my work computer does an excellent job with compiz.

[phanbouy @ Feb 28th 2008 7:18PM]

@Sporkinum
Great name. As in: "Stick a sporkinum. He's done"?

[Good_Bytes @ Feb 28th 2008 12:35PM]

They should have simply but a sticker "Vista Home Basic compatible" for those computers.

And for future use, cause I know a lawsuit is coming for this:
- "Vista Compatible"
- and "Vista Compatible + Media Center" (computer with a TV-Tuner)

[J L @ Feb 28th 2008 12:35PM]

OK, I'm the biggest Windows fanboy there is, and even I'm shocked at this one.

Shame on you, Microsoft.

[kryptonian00 @ Feb 28th 2008 12:42PM]

I agree, I'm a huge fanboy and this is just WOW! no words.

[meh @ Feb 28th 2008 1:31PM]

Guess 'The WOW starts Now'.

[Shane Lloyd @ Feb 28th 2008 1:39PM]

Jesus, I didn't even know Windows fanboys exists. What the hell do you have to be proud of? You're not special in any way, you the other 90% of the market are using the same crappy OS. Explain, please.

[J L @ Feb 28th 2008 1:49PM]

Well well, Shane. Do I not have the right to stand behind a product that I really enjoy? You're free to enjoy Mac or Linux, just as I'm free to enjoy my "crappy" OS.

[kryptonian00 @ Feb 28th 2008 1:59PM]

do I hear a hater in shane?! I prefer Windows over Mac for many reasons, just like you like your Mac. and lets just end it at that cause we can go on on why you like Mac and how wonderful it is and how OSX is the greatest, and I how much bigger Steve Jobs C0#$ is bigger than Bill Gates. LOL! Your such a Douche shane, grow up lol.

[Chebwa @ Feb 28th 2008 2:00PM]

"You're not special in any way, you the other 90% of the market are using the same crappy OS."

He never said he was special, he just said he likes Microsoft. So do I. Is it only cool to like something if less than 10% of the people use it? Moron.

And I still don't see the validity of this lawsuit. Vista Capable. If it is capable of running Vista, AT ALL, doesn't that mean the sticker is valid? Maybe if it said "Full Vista Feature Capability" that would be another story.

Eh. Whatever.