TiVo shuttering Rewards program, screwing its best customers

Apparently TiVo sent around an email notifying its loyal overpaying customers that it's shutting down the TiVo Rewards program on May 28th of this year. This won't matter to the vast majority of TIVo customers, no no, this decision only screws the company's staunchest word-of-mouth advocates. You know the kind, the alpha geeks obsessed enough with the company's products to others spend their time zealously recommending it to friends and family in the hopes of spreading the premium DVR experience (and earning some points while they're at it). Shutting down the program is one thing, but expecting the most loyal segment of TiVo's customer-base to turn in their points before the next series of hardware comes out is beyond lame and decidedly un-TiVo.

[mark smith @ Mar 1st 2008 3:07AM]

No. sorry. it's VERY TiVo
Ask any Mac user that was waiting for TiVo-to-Go functionality. What windows users got for free for a couple of years in advance, we got in an application we had to pay $80 for (Toast. Released MacWorld 2007)
You think we were compensated one bit? I'm paying $13/month for the programming info (which I get for free on my EyeTV) and my ability to Season Pass a show. (Also free in EyeTV 3)
I'm not even using their dialup....

[Prokanda @ Mar 1st 2008 4:58AM]

that's the price that 4% pays to play with the rest of the world. (it IS 4% this month, right? or are you guys claiming 8 again?)

you guys know that it's difficult to game on those things... niche markets don't pay macs much mind either.. let alone a tv-accessory company.

but just having it available isn't enough.. you want separate but equal? it's called bootcamp... pick up a copy of xp for cheap and it should pay for itself, right? sure, it's inconvenient... but if you're worried about 6.5 bucks a paycheck (especially with what you guys spend on your monopo-hardware) then maybe premium tv services aren't meant for you?

unless I missed something...

[Othello @ Mar 1st 2008 5:36AM]

@Prokanda: Was your mother killed by a Mac user or something? Irrational fanboyism at it's finest, not only do you hate Apple for no real reason, you hate the users too!

[Prokanda @ Mar 1st 2008 12:54PM]

incorrect. I own an ipod and as I've said before, I will own a mini just to have both platforms (separate) on my desk. I'm just working up the gumption to buy a premade, non-easily-upgradeable machine that costs as much as my total custom full tower gaming rig. (with less ram, hard drive space, no graphics card, and questionable cooling).

I think YOU need to check your fanboi-ism at the door. stating that macs are left behind in all but grahpics and music applications is just fact. the first computers that I ever used were apples and because of the way the educational system in this country is set up, I used them all through school. I have no problems with macs.. usually just their over-zealous owners. they're the VW owners of the computer world. super expensive, proprietary, known to failure.. but have a blind following because they look pretty. it's the followers, not the product. (I've also said this.. many times.)

kthxbye.

[Jon Doe. @ Mar 1st 2008 3:27AM]

Sorry guys but the alpha geeks basically say screw TIVO and build their own PVR. Maybe the alpha consumer though.

[MegaZone @ Mar 1st 2008 6:28AM]

It depends on your priorities. I'd consider myself an alpha geek, and I'm a big TiVo fan. I certainly could roll-my-own DVR - be it MythTV, any one of a number of Windows-based packages, FreeVo, EyeTV, etc. But I prefer TiVo. It 'just works'. I have to deal with tech all day at work, often long days. When I get home I like not having to worry about dealing with my DVR too.

Also, recording HD from cable is a hard requirement for me, non-negotiable. That disqualifies most DVR solutions today due to CableCARD. Cable company DVRs suck. I'd really rather not spend tons of money on a Windows MCPC to get CableCARD. TiVo provides CC support and a good feature set.

While some HD component capture devices are coming, such as one from Hauppauge (http://www.tivolovers.com/2008/02/08/more-details-on-the-hauppauge-hd-pvr-announced-at-ces/) then you get back to needing a cable box - and multiple cable boxes for multiple tuners - with IR blasters, etc. Which was a headache I was glad to be rid of. And you'll still lose quality because of the D-A-D loop, while CC preserves the signal as-received.

I know TiVo isn't for everyone, and there are things it doesn't do. That's fine, one solution doesn't fit all. MythTV is better for some. Beyond TV works better for others. Some people prefer the convenience of a basic cable provided DVR. Use what works for you.

When I was in college I probably would've rolled my own, because that was the kind of thing I did for fun. But the more time I spend doing such things for work, the less I find I want to do it in my 'down time'.

[Han Solo @ Mar 1st 2008 8:37AM]

>Also, recording HD from cable is a hard requirement for me, non-negotiable. That
>disqualifies most DVR solutions today due to CableCARD.

Google: "firewire mythtv" problem solved... Easy to do MythTV HD over cable.

[MegaZone @ Mar 1st 2008 8:56AM]

I know all about the firewire MythTV solution - I also know what DTCP, aka '5C encryption' is, and why therefore it is NOT a solution. In short, the firewire solution only works for *unencrypted* digital channels. Not good enough.

[Arthur Nonamiss @ Mar 1st 2008 9:07AM]

@MegaZone

Nice reply. I'm an IT pro, too, and the last thing I want to do when I get home from a long day of work is try to spend 3 hours figuring out why "Lost" didn't record last night. I'm sure with a couple dozen hours and $1000 in hardware, I could probably make a device that works almost as good as my HD TiVo. Of course the TiVo only cost me a total of $600, including a lifetime subscription. No thanks, I think I'll spend the extra money somewhere else and enjoy that extra time with my family.

[harispilton @ Mar 1st 2008 3:30AM]

Apple has to milk the world dry with the EDGEtastic iPhone first. They they will release the 3G version. But not when the world is ready. When Apple is ready. Either that or that can't figure out how to make

[Trey @ Mar 1st 2008 4:56AM]

Shhhhh

Don't you know what telling the truth HERE will get you?!?

They're watching...
The Apple fanboys


>.< They're everywhere *shivers*

[CUBSWILLWIN @ Mar 1st 2008 7:54AM]

Milk the world dry....?

[Jim Nichols @ Mar 1st 2008 3:30AM]

Tivo-to-go for Mac comes with Popcorn 3, average street price is $30. Yeah not free but not a bad deal either.

Guess I won't be cashing in my 0 rewards balance.

[IsNoGood @ Mar 1st 2008 4:17AM]

I see no Points,

/Sorry normally only allowed to use FRAK

[Tobby @ Mar 1st 2008 4:46AM]

I never did the reward thing to friends or others. but i got the same letter couple of days ago.

I just cancel my subscription today not because of this but just because im starting to use my pc to record my fave shows Judge Judy, Lost, and couple others.

The billing person ask me why was i canceling i told her because im using my pc to do the recording and because i read forum about tivo customers not happy with them.

So she ask me if i would stay she would give me 3 months free and after those 3 months the monthly fee would go down from $12.99 to $9.99. But i just decide to cancel.

I'm putting my Tivo on ebay hey at least i will get some $$ back for all those monthly payments since i got the tivo free from them =)

[Josef @ Mar 1st 2008 3:34PM]

Judge Judy???

[MegaZone @ Mar 1st 2008 6:17AM]

This is a little hyperbole, well, more than a little. No one is getting screwed. And we're probably not going to see any new TiVo hardware for a while anyway. All of TiVo's current developments (at least any we, or I, know about) are based on the TiVo HD platform.

I'm probably at the top of the 'TiVo supporter' list. You know the kind, the alpha geeks obsessed enough with the company's products to others spend their time zealously recommending it to friends and family in the hopes of spreading the premium DVR experience (and earning some points while they're at it). ;-) I've accumulated roughly 2/3 million points, and while I'm sorry to see TiVo end the program (I was trying to hit one million, just to do it), I'm not devastated by it. I don't recommend anything for a reward - that's being a shill. If I recommend something, like TiVo, it is because I believe in the product. Any reward for the recommendation is a bonus, but it doesn't change my recommendation. The loss of the rewards program won't change my recommendation of TiVo. I'd have to question the sincerity of anyone who would stop recommending TiVo because of the end of the rewards program.

I posted TiVo's official statement Thursday morning: http://www.tivolovers.com/2008/02/28/confirmed-tivo-ending-tivo-rewards-new-program-coming/

Note that they will have a new loyalty program later this year. TiVo isn't giving out details on that program yet, so we won't have details until closer to launch.

I also talked with TiVoPony on Friday about this. The TiVo Rewards program is outsourced, as TiVo is terminating that relationship. That necessitates terminating the current rewards program, which means people have to redeem their points. That's life & business.

TiVo did add a couple of high-end packages for us alpha-geeks: http://www.tivolovers.com/2008/02/28/tivo-adds-two-high-end-packages-to-tivo-rewards/

So if you're one of the alpha-geeks with a lot of points, you can pick up a lifetime bundle.

[Aaron @ Mar 1st 2008 6:35AM]

The rewards program was very generous. Almost surprisingly so. I think I recommended my way to a $100 Logitech MX cordless mouse with 2 recommendations. That is not too difficult when you buy a (basically free after rebate) Series2 for family members that still used a VCR.

In any case, I wanted to add that I have 3 HD HTPCs and I still use 2 Series3 Tivos. Why don't I just use an integrated PVR functionality within the computers for free? Because free is rarely better and in the case of TiVo, I still believe you get what you pay for. The interface and ease of use is leagues better than most other solutions. I will not try to suggest that TiVo is inexpensive. It is not. Neither is a BMW. It is the value that counts. That is subjective.

[Jesse S @ Mar 1st 2008 8:51AM]

I have to ask, why do people even use TiVo anymore when there are cheaper and better solutions out there?

[MegaZone @ Mar 1st 2008 9:00AM]

Because the cheaper solutions - cable and sat DVRs - just plain suck. Definitely not 'better'. MythTV, or other roll-your-own solutions, are too much hassle, and can't do what I want anyway.

And 'better' is highly subjective. Personally I don't think there is anything better than TiVo for my needs. There are some solutions, like a CableCARD Media Center PC, which may have more features - but none I need or care about, and it is much more expensive. Therefore I consider it a poorer solution for my needs than TiVo.

[Dave @ Mar 1st 2008 9:40AM]

I logged into my account today to see that they had "expired" some of my points. WTF is that?

[Aaron @ Mar 1st 2008 12:01PM]

They expire points two years after you accrue them, well, that and all points will be expired by May 28th. I found out the hard way by losing 10,000 points that I was about to use...

The point of the post however, is how they're doing away with a program that is designed to give back to their best customers; a commission of sorts for our good word of mouth. I can only assume they're canceling it for cost cutting - and doing so before new hardware comes out is pretty dastardly.

Personally, this is the same ideology as firing your more senior sales people because they cost too much. Such shortsightedness often indicates problems in their management.

[MegaZone @ Mar 1st 2008 9:53PM]

That's always been there. Points expire two years after being earned if you don't redeem them. The real point is probably to encourage people to be active referrers and not earn one referral a year for a decade before redeeming points.

And Aaron, they're launching a new loyalty program. That entails terminating their relationship with their current program provider, and that requires closing out the program and redeeming, or losing, the points. TiVo certainly knows how the program has been working for them, maybe it hasn't paid off. Maybe it isn't driving referrals as they'd hoped. Or it is getting abused - you can find people buying/selling referrals on eBay, for example. The point is, we don't know. And we don't yet know what the new program will be. So calling the decision shortsighted is, well, shortsighted. We don't have all the facts that went into making the decision - if TiVo wasn't getting a real return on the program then it makes sense for them to terminate it and try something else. Or maybe they believe the new program will provide even higher returns, which would also make it logical to switch.

It is easy to armchair quarterback company decisions when we don't have all the information. But I really doubt they just woke up one morning as said "Hey, let's kill TiVo Rewards. That'll be a hoot!"

[Sean @ Mar 1st 2008 6:53PM]

Tivo seriously has some mega douchebags in top decision making positions

[MegaZone @ Mar 1st 2008 10:00PM]

Care to explain why you say that?

[CaliforniaKid @ Mar 2nd 2008 12:06AM]

I'm responsible for 4 Tivos (two for me; 2 for gifts). One of those gifts sprouted 3 more Tivos. This all happened before Tivo Rewards started. As always, early adopters get screwed one way or another.

[lanejasper69 @ Mar 2nd 2008 5:24AM]

No Shit!!!! FUC^%^S! What horseshit!

I'm pissed off if you couldn't tell!

Faslane

[Jay Pollack @ Mar 3rd 2008 1:42AM]

I am sorry to see this program go and I never got one point in referrals. But after I cash in for a new TiVoHD next week, I will have gotten 3 iPods and two TiVos from the program, just from using my credit card (fortunately, my kids' colleges allowed me to put their tuition on the card). I have been using credit cards for more than 30 years and I have gotten more loot in less than 4 years from using this one than I got all my other cards put together. I understand that many loyal users of the program are upset, but I also understand about the abuse of the rules that was undoubtedly a major reason TiVo ended the program. And I agree with MegaZone about the integrity of someone who would stop recommending a TiVo because of the end of this program. If I find another credit card that can give me some decent rewards I might switch, but I feel like I had a good ride with this one in any event.

[Baz @ Mar 3rd 2008 3:30PM]

Well my 25,000 points expired. i whish I know about the experiation I woul dhave used them. thanks alot TiVo. Go Foff

[MegaZone @ Mar 3rd 2008 9:21PM]

If you didn't know about the expiration, then you didn't read the program agreement. So it is your own damn fault. Why do people not read agreements, contracts, etc, and then get upset when their own ignorance bites them in the ass? Easier to blame than to take responsibility?