Ballmer affirms that Microsoft is thinking Blu-ray

Apparently, Steve Ballmer didn't just take time to respond to the latest iPhone announcements and give that whole Monkey Boy Dance another go during the Mix '08 event. Oh no, he most certainly took the opportunity to address Microsoft's stance on where it was headed now that the format war has concluded. Granted, it's not like it ever had much choice here but to pick up the pieces and support the Blu camp, but for those who put a great deal of stock in confirmation, Mr. Ballmer did say that it had "already been working on, for example, in Windows, device driver support for Blu-ray drives and the like." He also noted that "Toshiba had moved on" and that it too was moving forward, but unfortunately, he didn't make a peep about the recently rumored Xbox 360 BD add-on. Still, we're hoping that one thing will lead to another, if you catch our drift.

[Via Gamespot, thanks rooshma]

[John @ Mar 8th 2008 8:44AM]

Wow, it looks like Sony might win the format war after all.

[Kizorblade @ Mar 8th 2008 9:07AM]

How's that rock for your house coming along?

[Neebs @ Mar 8th 2008 2:03PM]

He wouldn't know, he hasn't been out from under it in a while.

[mymaclife @ Mar 8th 2008 3:13PM]

What planet have you been on for the last month? Blu Ray won the day Toshiba stopped making HD-DVD. Right or wrong format choice, who gives a shit at least we can all get on with buying a Hi Def player now!

[Reader @ Mar 8th 2008 5:56PM]

There is no format war anymore. Just Blu-ray and a mountain of nails where HD DVD used to be.

[Mitch @ Mar 8th 2008 6:58PM]

Does every Micrsoft article have to have a negative spin?

[DP @ Mar 10th 2008 6:14AM]

Mitch, lest we forget this IS Engadget.

[Mr. Ballmer @ Mar 8th 2008 8:48AM]

If they'd just done that in the first place, then we could all be playing a Blu ray sized GTA IV next month. Instead of one limited by DVD capacity.

[ijyt @ Mar 8th 2008 8:48AM]

Why didn't you say more about the BD add-on? >:(

[J. Evans Turner @ Mar 8th 2008 9:24AM]

Even if there was a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360, there is no way that Microsoft would allow XBOX 360 games to use it. Microsoft has emphasized time-and-time-again, that they will not alienate owners by releasing games that require add-on hardware. Microsoft even puts HEAVY pressure on developers to require no more storage than a memory card can hold, so that all games will work on the XBOX 360 "Core" and "Arcade" models. The only XBOX 360 game I can think of that requires HDD storage is "Final Fantasy XI", a launch title. Microsoft has been *very* firm with developers on storage requirements. There have been several well-known cases of this policy affecting the way a game is developed and making game developers' jobs more difficult. Every time anyone mentioned the possibility of an integrated HD-DVD drive, Microsoft made public announcements shooting down the idea. Microsoft did not want to put in HD-DVD capability that games would *NEVER* take advantage of without breaking some very public promises. The only reason the HD-DVD add-on was ever released was to demonstrate their support for the format and fulfill an obligation. Microsoft really has no incentive to release a Blu-Ray add-on drive for the XBOX 360. You will probably never see anything like this, not even a prototype. Previous stories to that effect were mis-interpreted. For instance, Microsoft would insist that it doesn't matter which format wins. The suggestion that "we could make a Blu-Ray add-on if HD-DVD loses" was just so that people would understand that the 360's success has nothing to do with HD-DVD. There was no intention to actually develop such a device. A recent story or cooperation between Sony and Microsoft regarding Blu-Ray was also misinterpreted. Sony was assisting Microsoft in supporting Blu-Ray drives in a *Windows* environment.

[ijyt @ Mar 8th 2008 9:55AM]

"will not alienate owners by releasing games that require add-on hardware."

I stopped reading there.

[Mikee @ Mar 8th 2008 10:15AM]

MS had the capability of placing an HD-DVD drive in the 360 also, but they didn't for good reason. The disc-read times of BluRay (and HD-DVD) is very slow. The 360's DVD-ROM drive can transfer 16MB per second, whereas the PS3's BD-ROM drive can only transfer 9MB per second (http://arstechnica.com/journals/thumbs.ars/2007/1/17/6658).

That has actually posed a massive problem for game developers, since they now have to work around that slow speed so games don't take too long to load. To do that, they literally repeat the same information on the disc several times so that the laser doesn't have to move very far to load the data (lots of wasted space as a result).

Despite what fanboys have claimed, the 9GB storage capacity on the 360 has not been that problematic. If you take a look at what developers have said, it's not so much the disc medium that they have problems working with, it's the VRAM of the console. The PS3 having 256MB of VRAM has been more problematic for them than the 9GB of storage on the 360 (360 has 512MB of shared mem, so more VRAM).

Not only that, but it would have driven up the cost of the console significantly.

[tcc3 @ Mar 8th 2008 11:19AM]

Yes, if only the Xbox had Blu ray we could be enjoying Holodeck style virtual reality in our living rooms.

If only Sony had put Blu ray in the PS1 we could have had next next gen already.

[Noshino @ Mar 8th 2008 12:16PM]

"That has actually posed a massive problem for game developers, since they now have to work around that slow speed so games don't take too long to load."

Wow, just wow, have you played Mass Effect? I mean, BioWare is well known on the videogame industry, and yet the loading times of the game were so freaking insane, god, I think I even grew a fear to elevators!

So yes, your statement isn't right, Microsoft just wanted a cheap console, and they also needed to get the console out to the public before the PS3 or else they would have been destroyed...

[Mikee @ Mar 8th 2008 1:05PM]

^Use your brain before posting.

If the loading times are terrible on Mass Effect with 16MB/sec of bandwidth, then imagine those loading times with only 9MB/sec of bandwidth.

[stankychicken @ Mar 8th 2008 4:48PM]

@ J. Evans Turner

Engadget needs more people like you sir. That was very well written and informed. Kudos.

[DownwardMonkey @ Mar 9th 2008 12:13PM]

Mikee before you start making comments about people using their brains, catch up on your out of date info. It's been posted more than once why these claims about the PS3 having a slow drive next to the 360 don't stand up. I can't even be bothered to repeat it.

[IkeTurner @ Mar 8th 2008 9:03AM]

Why don't you add what Ballmer said a few seconds later?
He said that in a few years (5) physical media probably wouldn't matter anymore and Digital download is the way to go.

[geraint berbatov @ Mar 8th 2008 9:12AM]

now tell me - what are you going to do for the next 5 years?

[ScareyJ @ Mar 8th 2008 9:22AM]

There are currently three primary early adopters:
1) the HD adopters who won't be using their HD players in 1 year
2) the BR adopters who won't be using their BR players in 5 years
3) the download adopters who are already enjoying what the others will in 5 years

[Evan @ Mar 8th 2008 9:52AM]

Given that Microsoft thinks downloads are the future, wouldn't Microsoft want to quicken mainstream adaptation of downloads by killing off Blu-Ray? Supporting Blu-Ray will slow down consumer adoption of downloads. Or maybe that's the point! Apple and NetFlix seem to have charged ahead of Microsoft in movie downloads. Microsoft is not ready to take on Apple, and seems to be buying time with Blu-Ray. But it could back-fire if the studios hang onto Blu-Ray for too long.

[Geoffrey Sperl @ Mar 8th 2008 10:06AM]

Some of us will never really buy into the downloads bit because we don't want the added expense of backing up terabytes of video for a VOD server in the house.

Come on... get real. Viable downloads are a decade away. At least.

[ScareyJ @ Mar 8th 2008 10:58AM]

Microsoft has to cover all the bases ... they can't just cater to one technology despite it being more favorable to them. Their greater goal is still being the media hub in the house which needs to cater to the masses.

Video downloads aren't a decade away, they're here now. They've been around for years through smaller services on Media Center and other devices and now the mainstream has dramatically picked up the momentum by cable services, NetFlix, and others.

The current evolution of technology is favoring distributed storage and not local asset management such as an inhouse VOD server. Whether its the secure backup solutions now available online or video on demand services ... the service manages the assets and we have access to them remotely. These types of frameworks are already implemented for movies, music, games, and other types of assets.

[tcc3 @ Mar 8th 2008 11:25AM]

Yes, restrictive drm, low video quality,cumbersome storage strategy, and slow downloads in Digital Downloads is quite enjoyable. I'll go jump on that bandwagon right now.

DDs are great for rentals. I expect Netflix to be all streaming sooner rather than later. Its not great for people who buy movies to keep.

[Rob Conway @ Mar 8th 2008 11:41AM]

i'd have to say for Us, you know the people who are interested enough and know enough to enjoy engadget all day everyday, we have great connections that we pay for, and the capacity in our HDD's to justify using it. but the average user doesn't. and plus a lot of people like having that physical collection. i don't mind having only digital copies, but i have tend to delete movies after i've seen them a few times, and i actually have my favorites on optical discs so i don't need to keep my drive cluttered with movies i may watch once a year.

[ScareyJ @ Mar 8th 2008 1:04PM]

Restrictive DRM on a disc as opposed to in a file isn't much different when you've got someone else managing the asset for you. I don't mind the seconds it takes to buffer up a movie ... in exchange for a cheaper price, no delivery/shipping delays, no worry about scratched or damaged media, and a much larger library that I can browse and search.

Quality and bandwidth arguments are moot. We already have both SD and HD downloads and places like NetFlix even dynamically vary the download to offer the better quality for your bandwidth. Bandwidth is ever increasing and Engadget readers aren't the elite users that have broadband while everyone else uses dialup.

If you're into physical media, go for it ... they'll make a great addition to the huge cardboard boxes of VHS tapes people have shoved in the closet. I'm not against optical media in general, but the evolution is heading to digital downloads.

[J. Evans Turner @ Mar 8th 2008 9:10AM]

The BD add-on isn't going to happen. The majority of XBOX 360's out there don't have HDCP / HDMI. The movie studios wouldn't like that. Also, having a true IR remote would one-up the Blu-ray capabilities of the PS3 by making the 360 the more appealing choice for a home theater (compatibility with universal / learning remotes).

[tekdroid @ Mar 8th 2008 9:21AM]

Ballmer in Hi-Def with Sony DRM.

Worth buying!

[bob e @ Mar 8th 2008 9:26AM]

That was a really interesting keynote.

For those who have an hour you can view the whole interview in Silverlight HD at:

http://visitmix.com/2008/default.aspx

[Evan @ Mar 8th 2008 9:37AM]

Microsoft didn't have to announce support for Blu-Ray. Microsoft could have spread rhetoric that Blu-Ray is irrelevant and downloads are the future. By announcing support for Blu-Ray, Microsoft is essentially admitting that downloads are not ready for mainstream yet.

[Evan @ Mar 8th 2008 9:40AM]

(emphasis on "yet")

[The Dude @ Mar 8th 2008 12:43PM]

Not to mention ISPs are already fucking with torrent traffic because they claim it's swamping their entire networks down. That's now, with only a portion of the population resorting to torrents and the ISPs already dropping the hammer. Now imagine entire populations (those with affinity toward media content) downloading HD media...over the ISPs' dead bodies. Or perhaps this is what will perpetuate the death of net neutrality. Media distributors will pay a premium for their content to be left unaffected while everything else gets throttled down to compensate. Either way you cut it, downloads as the only source (as opposed to just an alternative) is balls.

[John S @ Mar 8th 2008 9:58AM]

Digital downloads are a lot further off than ppl think. The huge portion of the US is still using dial-up. Until download speeds reach a point where downloading a 50GB or more movie/game doesn't take an entire day and swamp your whole connection nothing is going to happen.

I think 5 years is VERY optimistic... but truly, very unrealistic

[Jacob @ Mar 8th 2008 4:24PM]

what would it matter if everyone had fast enough connections for digital downloads? I mean,some people don't even have DVD players, some have only VHS still. So don't assume just cuz some people don't have fast enough internet connections, no one will use digital downloads.

[Philippe @ Mar 8th 2008 10:07AM]

Interesting, knowing that Microsoft doesn't like very much Java, and Blu-Ray uses BD-J (Blu-Ray Disc Java) for interactivity, and that they were behind the HD DVD format mostly to support their own royalties over iHD. BR for X360 doesn't make much of an argument, support in Media Center, yes, much more.

[ma5t3rw1tt @ Mar 8th 2008 10:13AM]

You know whats weird, everytime I see a picture of Steve Balmer, he looks like an ass. He looks like one of those snotty ass people who thinks they are better than everyone look. Kinda creepy

[Billy Fiul @ Mar 8th 2008 11:15AM]

You sure you weren't looking at a mirror?

[Gary J @ Mar 8th 2008 10:29AM]

Have you been more sucessful than he? Just sorting out who I want to keep up with.

[Alex Padilla @ Mar 8th 2008 11:04AM]

I can't believe what I'm reading. We have people saying that Microsoft will never release a Blu-ray drive. We have other people saying that Microsoft should've never pledged support for Blu-ray, and that since they did, they're only doing it to "weather the storm" before digital downloads go mainstream.

I have one question: Has anyone heard of "business"?

Microsoft is making a series of "business decisions." Why would they not offer their 360 owners the ability to play Blu-ray movies, given that it is now the new HD standard? Why would they prohibit this new standard from playing on its Windows software, the most prolific OS in the world?

Remember: Microsoft is a company. They live in the business world. This is not some crime game, where you pledge allegiance to a gang and never recant. This is "real life." Wake up and understand what business is about.

[Bob @ Mar 11th 2008 5:42PM]

Exactly. People, even full grown "adults" turn into such fan-boys that they forget basic business strategies. MS was just playing their part with hd-dvd. Don't you see sony branded pc's everywhere with Intel technology inside them running windows and get this Apple Quicktime? Just b/c MS doesn't get along too well with Java doesn't mean Blu-Ray is outta the question, this just means microsoft will have to find another way to get their royalties. They shouldn't be too worried since they can make back most of loss they will "supposedly" encounter due to Blu-Ray using Java software for it's interface and not HDM-i, how they'll do that i have a few ideas, but leave it to the MS marketing people to come up with that.

[Tony Rayo @ Mar 8th 2008 3:06PM]

The funny thing is people already have BD-drives running on their Windows computers (heck my laptop came with a BD reader/burner when I order it a while back... I think it might have been the first one in the US and of course it's a Vaio aka Sony laptop), so this is obviously his way of saying but not saying that Microsoft is working on an external BD drive.

[snitch @ Mar 8th 2008 4:12PM]

I wonder will the 360 still be price lower than the PS3 now that it will have blu ray?????? remember the Ps3 comes with it already and also has a bigger HDD, integrated WiFi and its not plague with RROD.

[Erik @ Mar 8th 2008 4:48PM]

Blah blah blah, same old argument.

Very well, I will pull out my tired argument.

Does the PS3 have any games yet?


See, that's just stupid. Why not let people be? Maybe people don't need Wifi or Blu-ray. And for those people, yes, the 360 will be cheaper.

[Reader @ Mar 8th 2008 5:48PM]

God who the f*ck cares? You like your PS3, I like my 360, leave it at that.

[Reader @ Mar 8th 2008 5:51PM]

Your comment is painful to read, but the link you posted made me laugh. Anti-aging for geeks, that's pretty hilarious. Does it not work on non-geeks?

[Peter J. Lupo Esq. @ Mar 8th 2008 6:49PM]

It is for everyone...but, especially for those who proudly wear the title 'geek' :O)

Peter J. Lupo Esq.
antiaging4geeks.com

[Cunthor @ Mar 8th 2008 7:52PM]

I think before we see optical media die out, there will be write-only flash memory that will most likely be used for storing movie content. Cost in 5 years time for a 128GB "disk" with a movie + features will be (hopefully) less then dvd movie price.

[Broo @ Mar 8th 2008 10:51PM]

What I would like to see is Sony add a driver to the PS3 to let it use the xBox 360 HD DVD player (that would sell a few more PS3s, wouldn't it?)

[hothotdisco @ Mar 10th 2008 3:13PM]

I sure hope they come out with a blu-ray add on for the 360 soon. That thing would cost under $200 and force the stand-alone blu-ray manufacturers to drop their prices in order to compete.