It's hard to know the real story here -- we'd hate to think of a bunch of Mr. and Mrs. Nice Persons taking home a
gPC just to find it can't run that copy of Office or Half-Life 2 they were hoping to install -- but for whatever reason Wal-Mart is dropping its Linux "experiment" from store shelves and going back to selling the systems solely online. Apparently Wal-Mart did manage to
sell out its entire stock of gPCs in the 600 stores that got them before pulling the plug, but the $199 computer just "wasn't what our customers were looking for," said Wal-Mart spokeswoman Melissa O'Brien.
Everex spokesman Paul Kim says that online gPC sales were "significantly more effective," so apparently there aren't any hard feelings here.
posted Mar 10th 2008 7:20PM
I don't see why XP wasn't offered on these.
I am a linux supporter, but XP wouldve been the best choice, since these people would go in, and buy their software. As far as I know, barely anything in Walmart is Mac compatible, and I haven't seen any linux software there either.
Linux is a total hassle for my Mom, who knows not much about computers. SHe prefers XP.
I am sure that was the primary reason behind this drop. They probably got so many complaints when the less tech savvy customers realized this wasn't the OS they were used to. Throw on an XP license, charge $299, and they'd sell out again and this time with less confusion.
by "less tech savy" not knowing it didnt come with windows, you mean old senile people and/or those that live in trailers?
Chebwa:
Don't forget the cost of adding another stick of RAM to run Windows properly.
No, Dave, I think he means the average computer user who does not know much about Linux. Generally folks go into the store and expect to buy a computer with Windows installed. Unless there is a glaring sign alerting them to the fact that Linux installed, they won't know until they take it home and realize that Microsoft Office won't work.
Linux is still a mystery to many users.
"...another stick of RAM to run Windows properly."
This PC has 512, correct? XP runs BEAUTIFULLY with 512. 1GB is more of a luxury for XP, whereas it is a necessity with Vista. 256-512 was the standard for most of XP's reign.
Chebwa, not anymore it doesn't. It used to run well back when the apps available were used to people only having that much RAM. You know, the days before our browsers had tabs, when firefox didn't need 200MB of RAM, and there wasn't such a thing as Youtube.
And back then we ran Office 97 or 2000. Needless to say...RAM requirements have gone up.
"not anymore it doesn't"
No, it does. I use XP machines with modern software using 512 very often (VERY often). And it sure as hell is enough for the average Walmart computer buyer. It'll run mail.aol.com like a demon.
I have a PC at home with an Athlon 3000+ and 512MBs of RAM running XP SP3 no problem. Multitasks (Firefox, IMs, music, MS Word, etc) just fine and I'm sure I could get Half Life 2 running on it if I really wanted to. So yeah, XP works fine with 512MBs of RAM.
Older people tend not to know what an OS is. They think all computers are the same. My Dad's owned a PC for three years and he still doesn't know what a browser is. He calls it the thing with the big blue "E". I wanted him o buy a MacBook, but he wanted the cheapest piece of crap laptop he could find. Trying to deal with Vista (which I've never used) over the phone is a nightmare.
Alright, beef up that VIA C7-D 1.5GHz, add 512MB RAM. Now XP can run AS FAST as Linux on that machine (you forget Linux is optimized for not only lower end machines, but that machine in particular...), NOW slap on an XP license, plus an Office license.
Do that for your proposed $100.
OR use it as it comes. You need office? Guess what, comes with it. OpenOffice is not MS Office you say? Well, if they can't tell the difference between windows and Linux... Seeing as how OpenOffice can natively open and save those formats... Gee Wiz.
Looks like that $200 machine isnt so bad
I don't shop at Wal-Mart, and I don't think I ever will.
Good! Shorter checkout lines for me.
I had originally intended to open this post with an insult to all you people who rated helloUser low. Instead I'll just add my pence in with him and say you guys can have your short lines, I'll take a clean, clutter-less, local store that doesn't abuse child labor throughout the world in order to save you 4 cents on that sweater you just had to have. Wal-Mart...always a bad neighbor.
I save more than 4 cents, i can save $5-10 on a generic knit shirt, for some of us, that means a lot. I'm sorry we all cant be driving around in hummers, paying $5 a gallon for premium gas, lighting $100 bills on fire. Ok i went too far there, but you get the idea. Saving a few pennies for some is a lot more important than you might ever understand.
@ Matt M
more often than not, you get what you pay for. enjoy that lead paint from china.
just remember that someone, somewhere is paying for your "savings". sometimes it's a child in china making the toy, sometimes it's your child getting sick from the toy.
Linux will remain rather specialist for the foreseeable future. For a main family PC... which is really the market this is going for when selling in Wal-Mart, no, it's not a fantastic idea. For your dinky EEE or your Android phone, why the hell not. Hopefully these new markets will filter back through, and make Linux better supported, so it can be used as a home PC by the average user without headaches.
i dont really understand Linux could someone explain it to me? not like how to use it, but what it is
Well you see... it's kinda like a zebra. It has stripes, often lives in a zoo, and eats plants.
It's an operating system, like Windows Vista or Macintosh OS X
Linux, by itself, is just the base for the more robust systems you are familiar with with graphic interfaces (windows, menus, etc). At it's core (called a kernel), it's all text-based, where you enter commands to execute programs or make changes. There are Windows-like interfaces for it, the most popular being Gnome and KDE. But you cannot run Windows or Mac programs on Linux, since it is different (You can through software emulation but that's another story).
The other big thing is, Linux is Open Source, which means its code is available for anyone to see, reuse, and modify, as long as they give credit and in turn keep their source code open as well. So for an end-user like you, this means that there are several Linux 'distributions' avaialible for free download. A distribution is a package of the base Linux kernel, a graphical interface, and several open source applications, like Mozilla Firefox and OpenOffice. Perhaps the most famous of these is called Ubuntu, and is available here: http://www.ubuntu.org
The most compelling reasons people use Linux are: A) Openness B) Security C) Flexibility and D) Price (Free!)
That is just the VERY basics though, there is much more to it. I suggest you go to the Ubuntu site and brows around there, and venture to their forums.
The combined knowledge of everybody reading Engadget still will not equal what you can find on Wikipedia. Look there.
one correction to your post.
it is ubuntu.com
not ubuntu.org
Ack, my mistake, the Ubuntu site is actually http://www.ubuntu.com
@Kamokazi
Good summary, but I hate to point out that the 'kernel' you talk about isn't what you think it is. The kernel is simply the core of the operating system. You, as a user, never do anything with or in the kernel. The 'text' based 'thingy' you are talking about is called a shell. The simpler shells in Linux are text based. A 'windowing' environment is a 'graphical shell'.
Mind you, this is no different in any of the Microsoft OSs. The 'basic' bootup mode for Windows has been a command prompt since the very first version of Windows. I haven't used Vista, but even upto XP, you need to boot into 'Command Prompt Only' mode if things get really screwed up.
This information is undoubtedly confusing for a newbie, so it's best not to mention anything about the shell, rather than call the 'kernel' the 'shell'.
Linux is like Windows but free and harder to use.
@nh
Hahaha! Perfect. =)
@nh
I wouldn't ever consider popular versions (distributions) of Linux to be harder than Windows to use.
It's just different.
If your first PC is a Windows machine, you'll learn crazy things like, click on Start to shut down. And running with Administrator privileges all the time is ok (this is insane if you know anything about security).
Personally, I like the fact that in most linux distros, you can open the package manager (just a fancy name for a program that installs programs for you) and search for what you want to do, it automatically returns a list of applications you can use and to install them, you just check the box next to the name and click "Apply"
Now, if you LIKE digging though websites to find a program for a specific need, and you LIKE having to just trust the web host that they're not going to install crap all over your computer when you download and run the installer, then, well, Windows must be great.
So, no, Windows is not easier, it may just be more familiar. Easy and familiar are not synonyms.
"I wouldn't ever consider popular versions (distributions) of Linux to be harder than Windows to use."
You are fucking insane.
The difference between something that won't fail and something that cannot possibly fail is that when something that cannot possibly fail fails, there is usually no way to fix it.
Linux probably won't fail.
Windows cannot possibly fail.
you know ill just stick with OS X
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
The way I see it, there are two factors at work here:
1. Most Linux users won't shop at Wal-Mart.
2. Most Wal-Mart shoppers won't use Linux.
How exactly did you come up with that "deduction"?
I've interacted with Linux users from all over the world and I went to a Wal-Mart that one time a few years ago, just to see what it was like.
johnmc:
That is exactly the case, it was true when Wally World tried it with Lindows (Linspire), and it is true now. Many "thought" the problem was (and may have been true to some extent), that the "Lindows" name confused consumer. But the fact is, they person buying this hunk of junk doesn't know enough to read the label and make an informed choice. Those that do know enough, aren't buying this hunk of junk.
@I.E
You can scoff all you want at his "deduction" but tell me this... why is it all the people involved in the decision to put this on the shelves couldn't figure that out? It may be "obvious" but apparently not to some.
Typically choices like Linux and OS X and for people who actually took a minute to do some research compared to people who buy a dell w/ windows just because their relatives have dells w/ windows...
I did some research... then built my own desktop and put XP on that.
Nothing against macs/linux... My next laptop (when my crappy windows laptop finally dies) will probably be a macbook..
Well I have nothing against XP or PCs -- I use them alongside my Macs every single day - I just don't like it when people grab the first thing they see and claim they've made an educated decision.
"Typically choices like Linux and OS X and for people who actually took a minute to do some research compared to people who buy a dell w/ windows just because their relatives have dells w/ windows..."
There are ALOT of people who buy Macs (with OS X) because it looks good, not because they've done research on the OS! You're statement is false, provided that you were supposed to start with "Typically choices like Linux and OS X ARE* for."
Another reason for it's downfall:
I am currently having linux issues, trying to have a windows box print to a fedora box.
Sounds like a Windows issue to me.
Of the two people I knew that bought it, the one that was aware of what it was when they bought it would have known to look online.
That tells me this is a wise move.
The other person (my cousin) didnt realize the Linux aspect, but Ive helped him get it working better for him, and he likes it now.
Dave, that's a silly response (why everyone ranked your response lowest of all). You said "by "less tech savy" not knowing it didnt come with windows, you mean old senile people and/or those that live in trailers?"
Keep in your very narrow mind that MOST people are used to Windows or MacOS. Linux is a foreign operating system to even basic users. By basic users I mean people who don't use a computer very much (I have very wealth millionaire clients in their 40's who don't use computers much, at all). And most people are used to Windows--period. Whether from seeing it at the office place or anywhere else, MOST people see are used to seeing the Windows OS.
Even though Linux might make sense to standard and more advanced computer users, the interface is still foreign and difficult to find true support for it.
Linux is for losers....
enough said...
i agree. and also-
windows is for losers.
i deserve the low ranking about to hit me.
linux is for losers. yeah im against linux.
...as Windows is for sheep
Computers are like air conditioning: they don't work if Windoze is open.
You all fail.
Just because others are smarter than you and have an easier time figuring it out does not make them losers.
The assumption is that Linux users are poor, desperate, bottom feeders who can't manage to scrape enought money together to even afford a $50 Windows license.
Possibly instead of bundling the lowest common crap for $199 the Linux community could offer a PERFORMANCE Linux PC.
you have it wrong. that's the assumption of people that shop at walmart....that and the doubt that they understand enough English to realize the difference between Windows and Linux.
...also, the PC was spec'd out fine--it's just the amount of computer knowledge that is required to have Linux. when most people don't even know how to do simple things on a MAC or Windows platform, how can you expect them to achieve the learning curve required for Linux?
You mean like any other desktop after you install Linux on it?
That's not true. I run a linux pc in my home for most of my "productivity" work. But I also have a macbook pro and winxp pc. but, I the applications I run most run on my Gentoo box. I'm not poor to any stretch of the imagination, yet I still run linux as my main "work PC." Linux is a hard OS for the computer illiterate, because it is a steep learning curve but Ive been working with linux since Slack 2.0.30.
umm....
the only thing i know to do with a MAC is spoof it.
Has anyone here tried gOS? The last time I tried it on my ThinkPad X31 it was still very buggy.
it looks awesome, i think it will be the next linux distro i install.
Richard Lai:
gOS is one of the worst OSes I've ever used, and that includes the dreadfully bad Windows98. It's right there with it. A very poor representative to linux. At least give newbies something they can use, Fedora or Ubuntu is the best bet.
HOLLY COW you mean for 199 I didn't get XP and office 2007 plus WOW - Dam you Walmart. One word for the sheep that think windows is god's gift - you will always be in the 80% group of poeple who the other 20% live really well off because of your dead end life.
My "dead end life" means I actually get PAID to produce .NET code, which runs on Windows, as opposed to sitting at home writing free-ware and firefox add-ons. I'm significantly more well off than the average art student who takes out a loan to buy a mac, but can't pay it off because art is for kids.
I'll be the wealthy sheep, you can be the 'holly' cow.
btw- i'm writing this post via my dell linux lappy ;)
If money is the sole indication of your success as a human being, then more power to you.
However, some of us have loftier goals in life.
If making assumptions based on single paragraphs is your sole indication of success in your life, then consider the inverse of the assumptions you make.
If money is not a goal at all in life, then you should get off your computer and start scavenging for food. Even Wal-Mart isn't free. Is belittling others one of the loftier goals in life?
The software excuse is lame. Studies have repeatedly shown that most people do not buy software for their computers. They use whatever comes preinstalled, or whatever they can get online for free (and piracy is only a small part of this). Most computer users buy less than 5 pieces of software over the lifespan of a computer, 4 of what are games of some kind. The people who go to the store and buy Office or Photoshop are the exceptions, not the norm.
umm....hello???:
Actually, the people you describe wouldn't have much trouble in linux (if using a better OS than gOS, that is). For basic users, linux is as easy to use as Mac or Windows. It's the intermediate to power users who have a difficult learning curve trying to adjust. Doing basic stuff like surfing the web, listening to music, or viewing photos off a SD card is just the same on all OSes. The only stumbling block for novice users is that most linux distros are run by open-source fundamentalists who refuse to preinstall codecs that everyone should have, mp3 specifically.
Linux fails again. They should stick to servers and the business market.
Linux isn't an OS for the general PC user. It's best left to the computer literate. With that said I have seen linux OS's that have taken large strides toward the mainstream desktop OS market. Now those large strides don't compete with the like of Apple or Microsoft but for the power user it is an amazing OS.
I have been a very avid Gentoo user for a long time. I used to be a big Slackware user, but had abandoned that in the late 90's for FreeBSD. I'm not saying windows sucks or mac sucks. I like Mac, I have a MBP. But for the people it was designed for, linux works.
As a desktop OS for my Aunt? It still needs work to be that.
Gates: "this isnt the computer you're looking for!"
Wal-Mart customer: "this isnt the computer im looking for!"
brings back computer.
Maybe there should be Linux retail stores. Everyone is dumb enough to think that a computer=Windows. Apple is the better alternative... but you have to go to their special stores to learn why OSX is better.
A Linux store would finally teach people that there is another alternative to personal computing. Linux will never be ready for the desktop without a serious boost.
Linux is honestly a crappy choice for your normal computer user who just wants to use Office so they can open the powerpoints from work/school (without bugs from converting, or incompatibility with the new versions of Office, etc), and whose kid wants to play Starcraft 2 when it comes out.
Heck, it's even a crappy choice for a variety of other stuff. If you want to use a store-bought graphics tablets to draw in Photoshop for example.
Or you want to import and edit videos without spending 10 hours getting it to work. Or maybe you just want to use a random webcam to post videos on youtube. Sure you *could* get it to work in Linux eventually (assuming your webcam has drivers anyway), but the sheer amount of effort is mind boggling.
And even if you got it to work, when your friend asks you to video chat with them over MSN or something you won't be able to, lol.
Seriously, I run linux when I need a server for some reason, but most of the time it makes no sense. Running Windows or even OS X I can have iTunes open with all my pretty coverflow covers, listening to music while I surf the web-and I'm able to switch browsers if any website gives me problems with my browser (so I swap between opera, firefox, and IE as needed). You'd be surprised how many websites only work right in IE, or sometimes only work right in Firefox! Yes you can run a bunch of stuff in Wine, but then that brings it's own headaches (I remember one time uTorrent had blank menus for everything, and RSS still doesn't work under Wine). Unless you're a hardcore geek, the amount of troubleshooting required to run common crap under Linux is just not feasible.
People want to be able to buy that new GPS at the store and be able to actually install the software it came with. To buy that new mp3 player and install the software it came with. And when I say install I don't mean spend 8 hours trying to get it work in Wine.l
BTW, I don't know if you guys realize this, but your average person isn't really that tech savvy. Even your average smart young person is actually not nearly computer literate enough to do more than the basics with their computer. Some really intelligent people I know have trouble getting Macs to do what they want, and it's not that they're dumb, they just haven't spent the time you gotta put in to get good at taking care of those PC problems because they spend their time on other stuff.
And even though I've been using Linux since like 1998, and even though it's definitely gotten a LOT more user friendly than 1998 (when Mandrake linux would randomly corrupt it's own X-Windows install every other day *sigh*) it's nothing I'd expect a normal person to deal with. Looking at the linux help forums it's pretty clear that even the tech savvy run into headache inducing problems from time to time, and half the time nobody figures it out because there's too many different versions out there (for example I saw a lot of problems on forums with Apache permissions with some versions of linux because they have rather esoteric permissions problems).
If Everex worked as professional towards WalMart as they did to their customers, I'm not surprised that WM stopped the partnership: no support, no information, no truth from Everex...
Just like the QWERTY keyboard. It's inefficient, but familiar. Hard to get people to switch over to Dvorak... even harder than it is to get Joe Windows User to try out Linux
Terc @ Mar 10th 2008 11:49PM
@nh
I wouldn't ever consider popular versions (distributions) of Linux to be harder than Windows to use.
It's just different.
If your first PC is a Windows machine, you'll learn crazy things like, click on Start to shut down. And running with Administrator privileges all the time is ok (this is insane if you know anything about security).
Personally, I like the fact that in most linux distros, you can open the package manager (just a fancy name for a program that installs programs for you) and search for what you want to do, it automatically returns a list of applications you can use and to install them, you just check the box next to the name and click "Apply"
Now, if you LIKE digging though websites to find a program for a specific need, and you LIKE having to just trust the web host that they're not going to install crap all over your computer when you download and run the installer, then, well, Windows must be great.
So, no, Windows is not easier, it may just be more familiar. Easy and familiar are not synonyms.
Looks like we have a 'Who killed the electric car" scenario here...
I can't believe the ranking wars and fights that people can get into over computers. Computers!
Scene: The customer service desk at a Wal*Mart near you.
Phone: Ring ring, ring, ring, ring, ring, ring... (five minutes later) ring, ring.
-- Phone is picked up by employee. --
Wal*Mart Employee: "It's a great day at Walmarts, how can I help you?"
Customer: "I bought this here cornputer- the two hunnerd dollar one y'all had fer sale- and I can't do nuthin' on it."
Wal*Mart Employee: "Is it plugged in and turned on?"
Customer: "Yeah. Whattaya think? I'm stupid? I don't make the same mistake three times!"
Wal*Mart Employee: "What's the exact problem?"
Customer: "I'm trying to run my AOL on it, and I can't make it work."
Wal*Mart Employee: "I think you'll need a special disc for that."
Customer: "I've got the disc. It don't load!"
Wal*Mart Employee: "I mean, you need a disc made for that type of computer. Ask AOL for a Linux disc."
Customer: "A whatix?"
Wal*Mart Employee: "Linn-ucks. That's the operating system on that computer."
Customer: "Fine. So my other problem is I can't play my Deer Hunter game."
Wal*Mart Employee: "It's probably because it doesn't work for that operating system."
Customer: "I don't understand. It worked on my last cormpyooter."
Wal*Mart Employee: "Like I said, the computer runs Linux. Your game's probably for Windows."
Customer: "But I can see windows on the screen."
Wal*Mart Employee: "They might BE windows, but that ain't Windows."
Customer: "So you're sayin' I can't run my old software from before?"
Wal*Mart Employee: "Some will work. Some won't. Some I think you gotta get special downloads."
Customer: "So this ain't a real conputer?"
Wal*Mart Employee: "It's real, but it's just different."
Customer: "But if it ain't got Windows 95, then how's it gonna work right?"
Wal*Mart Employee: "You'll have to get different software for it."
Customer: [yelling] "Dammit! I gots about $200 worth of softwares here! Now I can't use it?"
Wal*Mart Employee: "You could still use it on your old computer."
Customer: "We done shot that one!"
Wal*Mart Employee: "You can use the programs that came on the new one."
Customer: "I don't recognize none a' this stuff. What's an "ethernet" and why can't I use my phone line to get on the Internets? What's a fireforx? Why does Office have the word "Open" in front o' it? What's opened? How do I close it and get my normal Office back?"
Wal*Mart Employee: "Calm down. You'll have to call the manufacturer with these kinds of questions. I just don't know the answers."
Customer: "Well. . . This thing's stupid. Can't even play my NASCAR games. Stupid rip-off is what it is."
Wal*Mart Employee: "I'm sorry. You can return it and get a different one if you still have the receipt."
Customer: "I guess I'll have to. I can't use this thing. Even my kids can't figure it out. Do you have another computer for this price?"
Wal*Mart Employee: "Nope. But we can apply the refund toward another one that costs a little more. We have an old Packard Bell in stock that's only $326, but it doesn't come with a monitor."
Customer: "Dammit. Maybe I'll give this to my gramma as a Christmas gift, then. Thanks for nothin'!" CLICK!
Wal*Mart Employee: [shrugs]
Phone: ring ring ring ring ring ring...
I was pleased to find this article, just saved a 30 mile trip to Wall Mart. I have been using Linux since Mandrake 8.1 but i like Red Hats Fedora. I use Core 5 Scientic linux now. The real problem is DRIVERS most manufactures want control of there products, so alot incapatable products, for Linux, Windows wants it, licensed (means money); Apple controls how they interact so you know Apple makes it (means money). Linux just does with what works or figures out how to cope. I am doing this on a Windows XP laptop because my AMD K2 died, and i was going to repace it for $199.00. Oh well enough: just use what you want.
Gawd Dammit Peggy Sue, this dang cumputer gots Linucks own it. Whut in sam hell is linucks? gPC? Whut the hell Peggy Sue? I caint see my dang NASCAR web page! Dangit take this God fersakin thang back to wallywurld! If it cain't run my dang deer huntin vidya game them taint wurth my dang two hunerd bucks.
what's wrong with that piece of junk that Everex had available at Wal-Mart, most new to computer users need a computer that can go on the Internet the gPC fulfills that need.
good comments for some, maybe Everex should label Firefox as "The Internet".
and have Kiosks and Pamphlets in Wal-Mart to demo and explain their gOS, so people know what their getting themselves into.
for all the Microsoft Fanboys, Linux isn't going away.
PS, they could always get a copy of XP and throw it on {sorry I forget that most computer users don't know how to "run" their computers}
More proof that Microsoft has effectively crippled the masses with dummy OS's, and has probably forever marred any chance of end-users becoming truly savvy in a real computing environment. .. kinda how AOL has dummied the Internet. You know I know people who think they cannot even get online without AOL software! Now we have people that cannot compute without a wizard!