Dallas considers shutting off red light cams, since they're working too well and harming revenue
By Paul Miller 
posted March 15th 2008 9:41PM
posted March 15th 2008 9:41PM
There's just one, fairly ironic, flaw to the otherwise totally lovable red light cameras that adorn Dallas: they work too well. Turns out the cams have curtailed red light infractions by 50 percent, which in turn has put a budget crunch on City Hall. The city is now considering stopping its planned rollout of more cameras, or shutting down the cameras on a rotating basis -- upkeep when off is next to nothing, but the city pays $3,799 per month per online camera to its service provider. That sounds like quite a spendy broadband bill, but we're not the experts here. Just remember kids, your government wants what's best for you, and what's best for you is a well-funded government, alright?[Via Fark]
naw, they just want people to run reds so they can get revenues up. cash grab, pure and simple....
Cops = Tax Collectors.
City Council = Sherif Notingham
Sorry, got a bit happy with my MX 518.. LOL, Btw there's no cam now.. So, I pretty much escaped the law..
I meant about the double post.. I'm sooo gonna get lowest rank for tht..
I ask the Gods of Engadget to forgive and let me repent upon this heinous crime by any means possible. :{
It is a well established fact that when red-light cameras are installed the manufacturer recommends reducing yellow-light times because that's exactly what increases revenue.
Nasty side-effect - it increases accidents. But hey, more money for the government AND the manufacturer, right?
In the article it mentioned they actually increased yellow light duration at a quarter of the sites.
Whenever I write my checks for deferred adjudication of my speeding tickets (90 days probation to keep it off your record), I always write "SPEEDING TAX" in the memo of the check. When I approach the clerk I say "I'm here to pay my SPEEDING TAX". Because that's what it is.
That'll teach them not to ticket you. Maybe next time you can hide their chalkboard erasers...give em heck!
A while back, Texas passed a law that they had to put up Warning Signs to let people know the Red-Light and Speeding-Cameras exist. That tips off drivers and reduces revenue.
We are also the state that once proposed a law that would allow people to purchase "speeding coupons", so that when you're caught speeding, you could pay up right then and there, and avoid all the court hassle, and added cost to the government. That one did not pass however.
Governments are corrupt, inept and care nothing about the people. In a country that was founded upon freedom, no taxes and removal from a tyranical government, our country has now headed in it's old country roots and in a direction only to start the process all over again. Can you say revolution? Taxation without representation. Please take my money, we don't need gadgets!! That's sarcasm by the way.
Online meritocracy? We're working on it.
Founded on freedoms, such as no taxes? Do you perhaps mean no income taxes, because there were excise taxes from the beginning in the US. Then again, the income tax was introduced to finance the civil war, a quite literal 'cost of freedom' in my opinion.
You think the government gives a fuck about you? It's all about making cheddar. Red light cameras are just another illegal tax that the government is trying to milk from you. Safety my ass. I wonder what's next in their quest for "safety", maybe they'll start collecting taxes every time you eat fast food - after all cardiovascular death rates are far higher than motor vehicle accident rates and the government wants to keep you safe and healthy right?
Amen to the illegal taxes. Why in the HELL are tickets part of a city budget??? So they are counting on crime to pay city services??? What the FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!
Shouldn't the ticket revenues be going to something that is aversely affected by the crime, anyway? (For example, health care / a fund for people injured by car accidents that aren't their fault).
I thought the whole idea with fines was that the crime gets payed for, such that if it doesn't happen it doesn't matter, but if it does happen then it gets evened out in the end. My faith in this system is reduced by the day. Damnit, there's almost nothing here that is not in need of complete refactoring.
Urge to destroy civilization... rising!!
Am I the only person that thought 'prositution' when on reading the words 'red light'? :-/
And the only person to think 'idiot' on noticing my inability to type properly...
Adam,
I don't blame you. I see the word 'government' and I think 'prositution.'
Are we sure it costs $3,799 per month and not per hour? Oh wait, sorry wrong service.
In WI, I'm pretty sure the law states that if you can stop in time, then do so. If not, keep going. There aren't any red light cameras here that I'm aware of. I have seen cameras at a few locations, but I don't think they are there for the enforcement of red lights.
In TX, does it charge you automatically if you are halfway though the intersection and it turns red before you completely pass it? If that's the case that's a low blow, especially with short yellow lights.
I hate these fucking things. The ONE time I've ever run across one of these things was in an area of Minneapolis I wasn't familiar with. I accidentally ended up running a red light because I was paying attention in order of priority:
1. The peds who I almost ran over because they were about to walk out into the street even though they didn't have a light.
2. Making sure I didn't turn onto a one way.
3. The idiot tailgating me.
4. The lights.
5. Where I was expected to turn.
Guess what got overlooked? Thank god at the time someone was taking Minneapolis to court over the fact that these cams couldn't prove who was driving the car and the cams were turned off at the time. So I got off, but its not as if I make some sort of habit of running red lights.
Now a days is less of a problem....kisses his Prius's built in GPS system. One less thing to need to concentrate on.
I can't wait to see the future as I think government is going to have alot more control including a possible global governement with global control. This will definitely be interesting and usually is due to money as money is root to all evil.
http://www.techknowledgepro.com/blogs
I guess those idiots in the Dallas city hall shouldn't have paid half a million more for the cameras than they had to in the first place.
That's right, the citizens of Dallas paid more for inferior cameras all in the name of political back scratching. ACS has also been in trouble for back dating stock options.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/DN-redlight_14met.ART0.North.Edition1.3ef6074.html
What a mess.
I got raped out of $350 when I was on vacation in LA. I was trying to read the street sign and the motherfucking light turned from Green to Red in a heartbeat and I got caught in the middle of the fuckin' intersection. I fought it for months by mail to no avail. Way to greet tourists you fuckers...FUCK LA - last time I ever go there.
No, you're going to get Lowest Ranked for spamming your link.
Stupid drivers? Where? (he types on his iphone while driving in heavy traffic)
We need to have publicly funded elections if we're going to unscrew the government. It ends up being way way cheaper to pay for elections ourselves than to have lobbyists pay for them (and get paid back on our collective dime). In the last year we've seen a handful of politicians get canned for having their hand in the cookie jar. I think we need government (and I agree that it's corrupt right now). We need to be able to have public roads and highways, we need affordable education, and we need a reasonably unbiased court system. But, if you don't agree, I would totally be willing to take over the court system for free.
Regardless of how long a yellow light's timing is; the general rule is to prepare to stop. A yellow light is a warning light, letting you know you should be stopping. If more drivers used the basic rule while driving, there would be less accidents.
This isn't Star Man: "Green Light Go, Red Light Stop, Yellow Light Go Very Very Fast" in reality it's Green Light Go, Yellow Light Prepare to Stop, Red Light Stop.
The only reason anyone should cross an intersection at a yellow light is if stopping is not safe and this can't be the excuse every time, "oh yeah officer, it wasn't safe to stop so I blew through the intersection and T-Boned Billy's Mom's minivan and poor Billy died, sorry".
$3,799 per month??!
I live in Dallas. This wasn't about safety, it was about money. If you've driven down here you would find that most of the lights aren't timed correctly. Stopping at one red light after another in 100 degree heat will work anyones nerves. The city knows this. Oh, and it's illegal because they have a private company collect the fines, and the camera only takes a picture of the license plate, not the driver.
Our newest one is that it's illegal to hold your cel phone to your ear when driving though school zones. You can eat a Big Mac, do you makeup, or read, but you can't talk on your cel phone or you get a $200 ticket.
They will find any way to charge you while driving. The tolls on our toll roads are supposed to removed after the road is paid for but they are still up because now they say that those tolls have to pay for other roads.
Perhaps the statistics were "created" to alter people's perception of red light cameras. Prior to this article, how may thought they were a good idea?
I still vote they need to install automatic spike strips that pop up when the light turns red... Or the 12 inch diameter steel bars...
I see it as a way for the city to turn the tables. By crying there revenue is down, then saying we need to turn off the cameras. It's just another way of saying, let's leave the cameras running an use the pictures to issue tickets. Tricked you again, laughing all the way to the bank.
What's worse about the DFW area is that there are three law enforcement agencies trying to get our money. The local police, the local sheriff dept, and the state police. If you're around a university you also have the frickin' university cops as well.
I live in Denton, which is just north of Dallas, and we have all four mentioned above *plus* red light cams. Its very obvious when these guys want money as they plant themselves in the middle of an intersection and bust people for either speeding or expired tags.
The same goes for Dallas as well. I make a weekly trip pretty close to downtown and there is an area where a six lane bridge crosses the Trinity river. The bridge is fairly long but the speed limit is 30 on it. When Dallas cops need to meet their quota they will have two or three units, usually two motorcycles and a car, waiting to bust people for not slowing down coming off the bridge.
All that aside, before the red light cams, I have witnessed several high speed collisions in Denton that involved light running. With the cams in place it has cut them way down. I would assume it costs Denton about the same as Dallas to maintain the cams just on a smaller scale.
When i first read this i thought they were cameras set up in the Red Light District. I could see how having cameras there might decrease revenue. The article was considerably less fun to read when i realized what they were actually talking about.
In light of my revelation, I found it incredibly unnerving that the government wishes to curtail usage of a device known to lower accident rates, because it has worked to well and they are now seeing decreased revenue. I hope the citizens of this area see what sort of priorities their government really has.
In nyc the yellow light means to go faster, to stop at the next red a block away rather than prepare to stop. whats so hard...
OK, I have to say I was a bit confused when I first read this entry. I thought that the cameras were catching too many cars speeding (the basic function of a red light camera), so I was confused as to why this would be harming revenue. Anyway, just wanted to put that out there because I thought it was amusing.
Hahahahahahaha, can you somehow offer bandwidth from India and provide an Indian call center for people to call in and pay their tickets? Would you also monitor the cameras from India?
So what if the government wants money. If it lowers the number of people running red lights, that's fine with me. There are so many idiots here in Dallas that run red lights so eh, I don't care about them paying a fine.
Its very common to see cities which purchased these systems and then abandoned them because of operating costs.
Like any turnkey commercial system the operating costs will be much higher then DIY because of reliability and service contracts + smaller market.
This is a great idea. Another great idea would be for engadget to talk about gear and equipment that Private Investigators use. There needs to be a platform for us to discuss these products so that we all dont waste our money www.newportpi.com
Further proof that these never were about saving lives or preventing accidents.
There was one recently placed on my route to work and running red lights have stopped completely from what I've noticed. I wonder, to fight the money loss from the Mass government because of these cameras in my state, if they'll start putting cameras on every light post fixed to check on all the cars now. You know to check for woman who are putting on make-up while driving or guys reading the Wall Street Journal? Hey I'm just trying to help our government, there's always a surplus of idiot drivers!
[sarcasm]
Great article -- I saw this on the Dallas site, too, and also here: traffic-speeding-ticket.com (that is a really great site with lots of articles of similar nature.) we need to get the govt off our backs! :)
I have an idea; how about they leave all the 'red light enforced' signs up and turn off most of the cams- who would actually notice the difference?