The word is out, kids. Adobe has apparently
gone against old Jobsy's wishes, and it's planning a Flash player made all special for the iPhone (ala
Windows Mobile) despite Apple's concerns that the technology -- in its current incarnation, anyway -- isn't cut out for mobile duty. During a conference call today, Chief Executive Shantanu Narayen said, "We believe Flash is synonymous with the Internet experience, and we are committed to bringing Flash to the iPhone," adding, "We have evaluated (the software developer tools) and we think we can develop an iPhone Flash player ourselves." We wouldn't be surprised if Adobe were to be given a pass on all those pesky SDK rules that would likely prevent a proper browser-based Flash component to be coded for the device, though those Apple dudes can be real sticklers for rules.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Chris @ Mar 19th 2008 12:17AM
I call first to say ABOUT DAM TIME!
JohnTitor @ Mar 19th 2008 12:34AM
Almost a shame, there's lots of devices open to software but it's apple's close systems that always get attention. Oh well, that's what high sales always do
SirPasta117 @ Mar 19th 2008 12:56AM
but will it get 3G? I don't think so
smart ass comment aside, im super psyched if this is true
LordFarkward @ Mar 19th 2008 1:43AM
"but will it get 3G? I don't think so"
we all know that we're getting a 3g model sometime in 2008...
smart? no, not really, but yes, definitely an ass comment.
fwd-bwd @ Mar 19th 2008 2:40AM
I think Adobe, not unlike Sun, may be a bit anxious about being shut out of the emerging platform. The release of Safari 3.1, which is the first browser to support the new video and audio tags in HTML 5, as well as CSS Web Fonts and CSS animations, made it apparent of Apple's interest in bypassing Flash' stranglehold on Web media delivery.
It is too late to challenge Adobe on the desktop/laptop browser but the field of mobile browser is still relatively open. Steve knows this, and the iPhone/iPod touch platform is his best chance to loosen Flash' negative impact on Web design (or rather to further Apple's influence on the "Web as a platform" development). Thus, this announcement is a shrewd move by Adobe - an attempt to nip the adoption of open Web media standard in the bud.
John @ Mar 19th 2008 2:41AM
Oh, you mean you don't have wifi at work? or even at home? Weird. Pretty much everywhere I go has wifi now; even our fracking McDonalds has wifi. How about you 3G trolls go give eachother RIM-jobs elsewhere.
KarlW @ Mar 19th 2008 7:25AM
john: Apples systems are all a lot more open than Flash.
Even microsoft (who, let's face it, aren't traditionally open people) opened silverlight pretty extensively. Adobe is the real epitomy of closed-sourceness; a lot more so than Apple are (with their BSD-based OS, WebKit browser, PDF-based graphics system, reliance on standards like vCards and CalDav, and built-in java and OpenGL)
I recently had to take my vista contacts over to my Mac. Oh, wait - the vista .contact file is a new format unsupported anywhere else, and exporting to vCard ruins lots of data. Being based on XML seems to mean open to microsoft, rather than actually using standard schemas.
decypher44 @ Mar 19th 2008 11:07AM
Reply to John:
I have a computer at home. I have a computer at work. Where I want to be able to use my smartphone to access the internet is when I am not at those places. I know your comment was towards someone else, but I've heard it before from others. Think, why would I use a phone to access the internet when I have a computer there? It's when I'm shopping, waitng at the doctor's office, etc.
peshue @ Mar 19th 2008 12:18AM
How about the latest flash for the wii, there's way more of those around than iphones.
Numetheus @ Mar 19th 2008 1:01AM
Yes there are more WIIs than iPhones. That means absolutely nothing though. I know a lot of people with WII units, and most people don't use the console for web browsing. And this is apparent looking at browser market share. iPhone is easily more popular as a web device than WII is. I have never seen WII mentioned having any browser market share. If Adobe is going to choose a device that to develop Flash for, iPhone should be the one they choose, not the WII. And, they are making the right decision according to what I have just read.
Nick Catalano @ Mar 19th 2008 12:18AM
You would think Adobe would have a bit of leverage with Apple... considering Adobe makes some of the most vital software for the Mac platform and without Photoshop & Co Apple would loose a HUGE amount of market-share
Eric @ Mar 19th 2008 12:27AM
That's quite possibly the most selfish, capitalistic thing I've ever heard. You, sir, are gifted beyond your years.
Hawkman @ Mar 19th 2008 1:13AM
On the other hand, Apple, probably don't want Flash on the iPhone...
1. Adobe are trying to make it into a popular mobile platform, which is what Apple is doing with Cocoa Touch;
2. It's slow;
3. Steve Jobs basically thinks it's crud - and while this may or may not be true, what Steve says goes;
4. The Webkit group are heavily involved in developing open alternative technologies to Flash (eg. see the WHATWG).
Apple would have little to gain and a lot to lose by allowing Flash on the iPhone. So I wonder how far that leverage will get them? Unlike Microsoft, who develop Office for Mac primarily as a favour and a way to further their monopoly, Adobe still get a very healthy share of their revenue from the Mac. So, there's a fair amount of co-dependence there.
Steve A. @ Mar 19th 2008 1:31AM
Actually, I remember a time where Adobe was prepping to break ties from Apple for integrating their own photo and video editors, and vastly improving final cut to the point that Adobe's market for photoshop and premiere was feeling the pinch. So much so that the costs for porting the programs to the platform didn't make sense for Adobe. Then a few months later, Apple went all Intel on them and made it much more simple for Adobe to port their products. I have a feeling that was a major force for Apple to abandon their 'think different' with IBM.
Had that Intel switch not happened and Adobe quit supporting photoshop on the Mac, I have a feeling apple would be in a far different boat with their computing market.
John @ Mar 19th 2008 2:47AM
@Eric
Nick is right. If it weren't for CS3 and better typography support on the Mac, I'd still be using a PC. In fact, the strangle-hold that Adobe has on the art/design market means that if they were to go PC-only, many companies and employees would be forced to go PC. Apple really should be more grateful; I don't understand why they're being such biotches about a de-facto web standard.
Ryan Trevisol @ Mar 19th 2008 7:36AM
@Hawkman, +1 on the slow comment, has anyone been to Adobe's homepage lately on a machine with less than 1GB of ram? Here at work we have plethora iBook G4s with 512MB of Ram. When I go to Adobe.com to install the latest flash player, the gawd-awful anim they have running on their front page brings the machine to a crawl, regardless of browser.
Still, I would like to access movie websites, web video, and other flash-enabled websites on the iphone.
Just please, Adobe, be smart about how you program it.
Blaktornado @ Mar 19th 2008 1:02PM
Exactly. Apple can't afford for Adobe to drop the Mac-Wagon so it won't stop them putting Flash on iPhone...
a ham sandwich @ Mar 19th 2008 12:19AM
im very glad to hear this, actually.
oh and the new [enter company here] loves [enter other company here] picture is WAY better than the old one. http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/31/amd-to-buy-ati/
Speeddemon2008 @ Mar 19th 2008 12:39AM
and i bet it was made on am Adobe product, wanna guess which one?
Oliver @ Mar 19th 2008 12:21AM
yes, finally I can play the anime videos at anime6.org on my phone!
On another note, you know what the iPhone needs? It needs VLC media player with all the codec support!
starkruzr @ Mar 19th 2008 12:58AM
Pretty sure media player software is on Apple's blacklist. Gentlemen, start your jailbreaks!
Gene Cowan @ Mar 19th 2008 12:21AM
Pfft. Adobe, like Sun, are banking that they are big enough "names" to bully their way onto the iPhone. Unfortunately, they don't seem to realize that Apple is just as big a bully, and is not likely to allow Java or Flash to be installed -- Java because it is a runtime emulation environment, and Flash because it's a resource-sucking, battery-draining plug-in that would integrate with Mobile safari, not an app.
What other big software company is deciding that they don't have to play by the SDK's rules because they're a big name? Windows for iPhone?
craig @ Mar 19th 2008 12:46AM
A problem for both is that iPhone's Safari doesn't have the concept of a mouse pointer. Jobs made reference to that in passing recently and I suspect it's actually one of the big reasons why flash support doesn't exist. Keep in mind that this issue is entirely of Apple's doing and it reduces compatibility with javascript websites as well.
I see a JVM being explicitly against the Apple license agreement. A flash player would probably be in violation of the letter of the agreement but probably not the intent. Since Apple reserves the right to reject applications for any reason, it all boils down to either of them negotiating terms. I doubt Apple really wants java on the iPhone. It doesn't have to allow flash as a Safari plugin but could allow it standalone (as if that were interesting).
AlexL @ Mar 19th 2008 1:01AM
How is Flash different fundamentally from Java? They are both virtual machine runtimes for running special code compiled for their respective platforms. If Apple wants to stay true to the limitations of their SDK, they wouldn't allow either to be distributed through the App Store.
CraigJ @ Mar 19th 2008 1:19AM
craig, you are absolutely right. I have a website I developed that makes extensive use of "hover" for activating sub menus, etc. I wrote it to be safari compatible, but there is no translation on a touch screen for many of the behaviors, especially when hover changes state, and click follows the link. Personally, I dislike flash and I don't really care one way or the other. Flash, like Acrobat reader, *used* to be cool and lightweight, now they are huge, bloated things that I'd rather avoid.
Jeremy @ Mar 19th 2008 12:25AM
Maybe I'm just not surfing the right sites, but I rarely encounter sites in my daily mobile surfing travels that require Flash.
And if Adobe creates this and doesn't have Apple's blessing it's basically useless. They'll need to make an entire web browser since they won't be able to make a special "plugin" for Safari without Apple's cooperation.
starkruzr @ Mar 19th 2008 12:59AM
New web browsers are verboten according to Apple's rules.
Eric @ Mar 19th 2008 9:09AM
Let's be honest: you watch the same Youtube videos as everyone else. Or play the same little flash games as we all do.
Jeremy @ Mar 19th 2008 9:21AM
You don't need Flash to watch YouTube videos on an iPhone.
Brad @ Mar 19th 2008 4:29PM
If Adobe creates this and doesn't have Apple's blessing, it's a stab at Apple. There's a lot of Adobe/Apple animosity right now (header graphic aside). Apple doesn't like the idea of giving up a chunk of its platform to Adobe, and Adobe is sick of Apple holding the keys to the kingdom, the kingdom ADOBE helped build.
No, I figure Adobe will release it, Apple will reject it, and Adobe will say "See, here's why you shouldn't trust Apple. Now, the new Android devices, on the other hand...."
And then 6 months later there will be flash on the iPhone. I predict Feb. 2009
wild homes @ Mar 19th 2008 12:33AM
I'm all for it, but I'm really uncertain how much I'll really use it. It's definitely below copy/paste functionality for me. and maybe below changing the SDK EULA to allow signed apps to run background processes for seamless geotagging. I just hope that when Adobe do have their flash player ready, it's really lean (because mobile Safari really likes to crash alot, especially with 1.1.4) and that Apple will integrate it into the phone in the same way JavaScript is integrated into the Safari settings page-- I'd like to have the option to disable Flash manually, or maybe they could just offer a feature where you can choose to have the iPhone auto-disable flash whenever you're on EDGE.
Drew @ Mar 19th 2008 12:37AM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but why doesn't Apple let Adobe integrate Flash into Safari, and just give the user a big easy "TURN FLASH OFF" toggle button? Those of us who don't really care about battery life (because we have no lives and go nowhere without the ability to charge our phones in a flash [sorry, pun]), would sure appreciate this battery draining feature. All the other iPhone users who are climbing mountains or ice fishing without an outlet can just turn it off and enjoy a longer battery life.
But then again I'm probably missing something. That's usually the case.
Alex @ Mar 19th 2008 12:55AM
It's the premise. Jobs wants Adobe to turn their focus to the platform, to out leverage WinMo.
Daniel @ Mar 19th 2008 12:46AM
i wonder how long till either sun or adobe sue apple. lets see i can see able stealing the ideas for flash and java and renaming them and putting them on the iphone.
Jake @ Mar 19th 2008 12:46AM
Sure, they can make a standalone player. But does the SDK actually allow them to build a plug in for mobile Safari? I highly doubt it.
Sonic_13 @ Mar 19th 2008 12:47AM
Now if only Adobe would go and bring Flash to the Internet Channel on Wii....
Jake @ Mar 19th 2008 1:47AM
Um. It's already there...
Captain Courageous @ Mar 23rd 2008 9:28PM
The Internet Channel does have flash!
CosterMonger @ Mar 19th 2008 1:08PM
I have a Wii and I can verify these facts are true, flash works on the Wii.
I've zapped the lawn gnome on StrongBad Email with a Wiimote.
Sonic_13 @ Mar 20th 2008 2:35AM
My apologies, I should have been clearer.
I meant to say the latest version of Flash - so that I can watch online videos and tv shows, etc. Having the older version of Flash isn't very useful.
Alex @ Mar 19th 2008 12:52AM
Apple can easily lock them out of Safari if they wanted to.
Basically, as I understand it, this sounds like a bit of a workaround on Adobe's part; the actual implementation of it and how it will work in conjunction with Safari is obviously the most relevant part of all this, and yet we have no official information pertaining to it.
Eugenia Loli-Queru @ Mar 19th 2008 12:53AM
Excuse me, but am I missing something here?
You see, I am NOT interested in the "Flash Lite 3.0" standalone application, like the ones found on many cellphones. I am interested in a full Flash plugin FOR the web browser.
The LICENSE of the SDK *specifically prohibits* "plugins". Unless Adobe kisses and makes up with Apple to get special treatment, there CAN'T BE a web browser Flash plugin. Lite or full.
The General @ Mar 19th 2008 12:56AM
I just adblocked your avatar. If that's really you, I am very sorry.
aaron @ Mar 19th 2008 1:25AM
@ The General
Brutal buddy, just brutal. Funny though.
The Private @ Mar 19th 2008 1:28AM
Hilarious reply, sir. I laughed very hard...sir.
Eugenia Loli-Queru @ Mar 19th 2008 4:44AM
Gentlemen, I am so sorry you don't have a good enough face, neither balls, to show your real face online. I don't have such a complex, but I put my face as a signature on my opinions.
Even more sad is the fact that you had nothing to reply to the topic at hand. That'd teach me to reply on sites that 10 years olds are the norm.
stupidnoduhdude @ Mar 19th 2008 12:56AM
Never thought I'd see the iPhone get Flash before my beloved N95-3.../sigh. Without HSPA I can't even see this being a worthwhile candidate for Safari integration, unless of course you're using WiFi.
Philster @ Mar 19th 2008 1:10AM
Can Flash do a COPY & PASTE ??!!!!
waiownsyou @ Mar 19th 2008 1:20AM
Yes. Now GTFO.
Philster @ Mar 19th 2008 1:30AM
Such hostility, Wai. Relax. Everything is going to be okay.