Heat from GeForce 9800 GX2 causing system crashes?

By now you've had a chance to sample the reviews on nVIDIA's new flagship GeForce 9800 X2 graphics card right? Good, so did you happen to see the comments from bit-tech about heat? During their testing, bit-tech encountered "a number of heat-related crashes, hard locks and instabilities" with their ASUS Striker II Formula motherboard. They claim with 100% certainty that all the issues were related to the installation of the GeForce 9800 GX2. Apparently, the heat generated by the card coupled with 9800 GX2's air-flow restricting footprint caused the motherboard to enter an automatic self-protect mode as board components exceeded 90 degrees Celsius (190-degrees Fahrenheit) -- the GPUs never exceeded a reasonable 85 degrees Celsius. A fan placed directly above the motherboard's south bridge (responsible for HDD controller, I/O, etc) fixed the problem. Consider yourselves warned.

[Ayman @ Mar 19th 2008 6:12AM]

well at least its not the xbox

[AutoTom @ Mar 19th 2008 6:29AM]

this card is probably the first to be on par with the xbox's graphics.

[taha.rana @ Mar 19th 2008 6:48AM]

Both of u are lame.....

[Kurian @ Mar 19th 2008 7:00AM]

@AutoTom.

Lol, you are an ignorant, indifferent fool.

You're like this friend of mine who broke the square button on his PSP, because thats the only button he knows to press playing God of War. The onscreen thing prompts to press X, he's still pressing square. Kratos is beating up someone in a CGI cutscene, he's still pressing square cos he thinks he's doing it.

[MDV @ Mar 19th 2008 7:04AM]

Yeah and not only that - the guy's so stupid he chose to have you as a friend.

[Mobius_1 @ Mar 19th 2008 7:38AM]

Well, since "intelligent" is relative, we need some dumbasses in this world to feel smart (and, of course, laugh at)

[Kamokazi @ Mar 19th 2008 10:42AM]

AutoTom, if you're still wondering why people are mocking you, let me clue you in:

The Xbox 360's GPU is based on ATI's R500 architecture, meaning it will perform rougly on par with a x1800 video card, or nVidia's equivalent, the 7800. Now if you can count, you will realize this card is two generations ahead of that. So the bottom line is, PC graphics have been on par with the 360 since before it was even launched...the 360 isn't even in the same leage as these GPUs.

[Bigsby @ Mar 19th 2008 2:18PM]

I'm still pretending he was being sarcastic.

[Ayman @ Mar 19th 2008 6:23PM]

This is to all the people that thought i was talking about the Xbox Graphic card
i was actually talking about the heating of the Xbox 360 (not the last six months) and their 3 rings of Death, since 16% of Xbox consoles where being returned compared to 3% to the PS3 and Wii.

but it hurts to see me explain this to people since it was just a Sarcastic remark that there is another device that heats up and DOESNT HAVE TO DO WITH THE XBOX

[Byzil Mystwing @ Mar 19th 2008 6:13AM]

I thought that it didn't look like it had very good ventillation. Cards this powerful would need more, not less, airflow I would think

[Jagannath A @ Mar 19th 2008 6:37AM]

and you are a fool!!

[Jagannath A @ Mar 19th 2008 8:30AM]

boy!! now do my comment looks like it has no meaning? well it was a rhymic reply to a stupid spam comment which was snipped by our engadget overlords ;)

[rayza563 @ Mar 19th 2008 6:39AM]

is anyone even that tempted to buy this thing, heck iv liked Nvidia and thought ATI were verging on bankruptcy the past 2 years but the 3870Gx2 > 9800GX2.
seriously when you've already got 1 trillion terraflops of power why pay 2 or 300 more for 1.3 trillion? (its an example obviously) Nvidia needs to look @ gettin cheaper this card wont have the same success as the 8800 series did REST ASSURED coz now they have decent competition.

[Dani @ Mar 19th 2008 6:49AM]

I'm considering one, my GPU is due for an upgrade; The main thing putting me off at the moment is the price on waterblocks.

It's hard to justify the expenditure, and would prefer a single fast gpu over a hybrid SLI solution like these X2 cards.

(I've never forgiven ATi for the Rage Fury MAXX and the Win2K debacle) :)

[AutoTom @ Mar 19th 2008 6:59AM]

What ever happened to being able to pay more money for a more 'sensible' product.

I want more power with less heat and noise, i'm willing to pay for it, if it saves me getting water cooling..

[Chris @ Mar 19th 2008 7:06AM]

I really don't see the point at the moment. The games industry hasn't moved on enough to require a 9800. The 8800 is still a fantastic card and it's cheap.

Nvidia need to work on making these cards smaller and cooler not bigger and more powerful.

[OneLove @ Mar 19th 2008 10:27AM]

I play call of duty 4 with an nvidia 8500, 2Gb ram ,vista, AMD x2 3800+ and still come out in top 6 every time.

[AutoTom @ Mar 19th 2008 6:51AM]

please go to the mexican engadget site

[Dani @ Mar 19th 2008 7:10AM]

@AutoTom

I think I'm with you there, much as I like to tinker with exotic cooling; I'd prefer a totally silent powerful system which just worked out-of-the-box :)

That said, I have a Mac Pro which is supposed to be all that and I hate the thing, it's awful.

[Spongy @ Mar 19th 2008 7:42AM]

Its ok if you download it heaps, but that ruins it hey?

I hate it. If i could return it i would.

[Jagannath A @ Mar 19th 2008 8:37AM]

are you the one in your avatar ;) ???

[Bobs @ Mar 20th 2008 4:36AM]

Im Ron Jeremy. Got any VHS tapes you want autographed?

[Evil @ Mar 19th 2008 7:41AM]

They would put two cards on one, call it a new card, and then poorly ventilate it so our motherboards melt. Tsk tsk tsk nvidia...

[Jonny Greenwood @ Mar 19th 2008 8:24AM]

I've waited nearly a year for this card (when G92 was supposed to be GeForce 9), and 2 or more years to play Crysis. Now i think i'll wait a bit longer for the next one (single GPU, faster than this?). £450 for a few months at the top of the graphics card tree is very steep, but there will ALWAYS be new cards and i can't wait forever.

When i built my current system, i bought a cheap 7800GT as a stop-gap investment as i was going to get the latest and greatest a few months down the line. That was 2 years ago! Would be nice not to have bills to pay, car to run etc.

I get that most of people and under the impression that 1 GPU is better that 2 (on one board)? Is this justified at all? ie. games not taking advantage of both chips etc? ...and is this a problem with SLI in general?

If SLI indeed works as well as its supposed to, i can just stick the same card in again in 2 years time when new games get jerky again! (@ half the price first time round).

[Dani @ Mar 19th 2008 8:40AM]

@Jonny Greenswood

The matter of a single more powerful GPU is im my opinion about design elegance vs. brute force.

With a powerful single die you have a smaller physical card, less heat, generally less power consumption, tighter driver support etc.

These X2 cards are really a bit of a bodge; all be it a rather good one, it's still really two cards bolted together.

Of course once we get multiple cores in a single die, that will be a whole new can of Quattro :)

[Paul @ Mar 19th 2008 9:25AM]

@Dani, I guess you could say the same thing about Dual / Quad core processors? The fact is that they still do a great job and perform better than a single chip.

[Dani @ Mar 19th 2008 9:42AM]

@Paul

Well no, which is why I made the distinction in my post.

We're not talking about multiple cores on a single die here. If we make a comparison to a CPU, then the X2 cards would be like adding a second motherboard and ram to your system.

[Jesse S @ Mar 19th 2008 12:28PM]

Well, you see, SLi and CrossFire are nearly 100% marketing. CrossFireX is actually somewhat useful if you want to do something like play Crysis across 4 screens (I think SLi can do that now, too).

Improvemets using dual GPU's is 12-15% more than the first GPU by itself. It isn't a 100%, or even a 50% improvement.

And, right now, you can get dual-core CPU's that are more powerful than quad-core CPU's at the same price, simply because nearly all consumer programs don't use more than one core.

[Nbcdnzr @ Mar 19th 2008 8:22AM]

I've actually had the same problem with the 7950 GX2. Putting two cards so close together is not such a good idea apparently.

[Dani @ Mar 19th 2008 8:45AM]

@Jagganath

hehe, yes ;)

That was a couple of years ago, but I like the pic.

[Dani @ Mar 19th 2008 8:46AM]

Bah, why do my replies sometimes appear as new topics?

[Wwhat @ Mar 19th 2008 9:22AM]

Seems a flaw in the ASUS design to me, they put critical chips too close the the PCIe slot, and it gets hot there as they might have expected.

[Kamokazi @ Mar 19th 2008 10:32AM]

Exactly...this could easily happen with an 8800GTX or Ultra on the same mobo. People building systems with these cards should know how to handle issues like that. (and Asus probably should have tried to put the southbridge elsewhere).

[Arjy @ Mar 19th 2008 9:56AM]

Looks like we're gonna need a new mobo layout, which keeps the PCIe slots separate from the rest of the components.

[Ty @ Mar 19th 2008 10:32AM]

Or... a fan on the north and south bridge like it should be. Or watercooling. Their case is probably too small as well.

[Arjy @ Mar 19th 2008 10:56AM]

I think they wer using a test bench, but yes, a case would be helpful.

I'm running an asus maximus formula x38 mobo and even that only came with one optional fan for the mobo, and it told me not to use that if I was using active cooling on my cpu. NBs and SBs do run a little hotter than normal, but i dont think its to the point where they need active cooling, especially since they are only put in that situation when this card is in place.

[Dani @ Mar 19th 2008 10:02AM]

Venting hot air into the case is not the smartest move for a design tbh. I had a simiar problem when I used a large heatsink and vertical exhaust fan on my 8800 before watercooling it. The case ambient temp rocketed and my PSU thermal fan was on permanently as most of the hot air was pumping directly into its intake.

[agrabren @ Mar 19th 2008 11:42AM]

It's a rock and a hard place problem. The boards are too small to have both air intakes and exhaust, so which direction should they pump air? Water cooling helps the situation, but that's definitely not for amateur computer builders. They really need a standard for cooling the cases, especially with GPUs the way they are. Oh, and love the pic.

[FTY @ Mar 19th 2008 10:03AM]

Those cards are getting way to big for my liking, and frankly they dispense so much heat, I don't have to turn on the heating in winter in the room the PCs (2) are in, as they heat the room quite nicely.

Another thing is, that I really despise towers mid, big whatever kind of package they come for PCs, I like them small and dandy, but lately you really can't build a good PC in microATX form factor, as those cards just fry everything inside. They fit, but the heat is an overkill.

Right now I have 8800Ultra in the smallest cube LianLi case, and there's no way to cool that thing, so the sides is open and a fan blowing in. I will buy a bigger case pretty soon, as I'm sick tired of this. They need to slim those cads and make them cooler ASAP, even before introducing more power as this leads to nowhere, or maybe external solutions (whatdoiknow).

[agrabren @ Mar 19th 2008 11:44AM]

They do make boards that produce less heat. They just aren't as powerful. Look at the 9600 series... They produce far less heat, require far less power.

[FTY @ Mar 19th 2008 1:11PM]

Well, I buy the top of the line graphics card at the time I buy a new PC, it usually lasts me until I decide to buy a new one again. Not really the point here, the point is, they should try and make those cards smaller and cooler if possible, all of them.

I am no expert, but I really don't know why those hi-end cards need to be almost half a meter long and the others not, if it's only cause of the cooler, well they really better find another solution to this, as each card is getting linger and fatter, which is kind of idiotic. Everyone who wants those has to sacrifice at least one slot just cause those cards are damn huge by default.

[Frankenstein Black @ Mar 19th 2008 10:24AM]

TOLD YOU SO! This just goes to show that Waterbending Masters know heat! http://www.eternal-champions.com/images/waterbending_master.jpg

Did I not point out in an earlier post that this card does not appear to be designed to vent hot air out of the case properly? http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/05/eyes-on-nvidias-geforce-9800-gx2/2#comments

Exactly! Thank you very much. Oh, and “fools rush in”. Wait for the redesigned (or alternate OEM) version of this card before plunking down your hard earned scratch, I’m just sayin...

[daschupa @ Mar 19th 2008 10:58AM]

Geez, what would happen if you had two of those bad boys together in sli mode?

[Anthony @ Mar 19th 2008 11:36AM]

A fire portal straight to a special place in Hell for people that have the gadgets that I want.

[The Purveyor of Justice @ Mar 19th 2008 11:05AM]

@ Komokazi

Correction,
the 360 boasts 48 unified pixel shaders, putting it more in line with
the x1900 series.....but yeah, the jist of what you said was right.

@Auto Tom
The only reason the 360 is able to even remotely keep up to PC's
graphically is because it is much easier to optimize code for a
single GPU as opposed to the endless configurations of a PC. If you
stuck one of these, or a 3870 GPU in the 360 it capabilities would
increase exponentially.

[MagusDF @ Mar 19th 2008 11:09AM]

I dont really mind seeing more powerful cards on a yearly basis. I'm not so much worried about them breaking the price brackets as I think either ati or nvidia will have a solution that works for that i want to spend... But When are we going to see the size / power used / heat decrease in vid cards. I kind of thought it was getting a bit ridiculous in the last generation. I'm nearing the point of skipping a generation.

[renmimby @ Mar 19th 2008 11:44AM]

The passive chipset cooling on the Striker 680i is what stopped me from buying it in the first place. I presume reference boards (like the EVGA/BFG 680i/780i) won't have that problem, as they have a fan over the northbridge.

[AlfredBurst @ Mar 19th 2008 1:02PM]

This overheating issue is mostly caused by the motherboard. I have tested this mobo with only one 8800GTS 640Mb. At idle the northbridge was overheating beyond the default security parameters. After adding a spot fan on the NB the temp was better but it was still above 60.

[David @ Mar 19th 2008 1:29PM]

This is precisely why we need to get rid of the ATX platform and redesign the computers for better thermal dissipation.

And yes I do realize BTX tried and failed.

[D0rk @ Mar 19th 2008 2:18PM]

there's a reason i'm still rocking 8600gt's, and it's not because I don't need the graphics power.

I don't feel like jamming a 2 foot long card into my case. The size of video cards nowadays is rediculous.