Last we checked we actually weren't in the Twilight Zone, but quite frankly, the bigwigs at Gibson just might be. Seemingly out of nowhere, the famed guitar manufacturer
sparked up a lawsuit against Activision claiming that Guitar Hero titles violate one of its patents. Now the company appears to be on the warpath, suing Wal-Mart, Target, GameStop, Amazon, Toys 'R' Us and Kmart in an attempt to get the game off of store shelves. Reportedly, Gibson took "this action reluctantly, but is required to protect its intellectual property." For the retailers that did comment, they chimed in only to say "we aren't commenting," and judging by the looks of things, the games are still widely available -- for now.
posted Mar 21st 2008 10:02AM
Just a clever trick in order to get more sales! In fear of not catching a copy customers will flood the supermarkets!
I bet they're only suing because they need money for something. If that wasn't so, Gibson wouldn't send lawyers to blast people with lawsuits
Have you seen the Gibson-fender guitar??? this is what happens when the greats collide.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uZr3JWYdy8
Goddamn you, Jason. I was really excited about seeing that guitar, too.
Hahah Rick Roll'd
thanks for the comment before I clicked the link :-)
Def an epic rickroll tho..
If you ask me, the whole RickRoll thing is tired, way played out, and stupid.
Well, it was stupid to begin with.
didn't ask you... click the link...
I'm schizophrenic...and so am I
Schizophrenia is not multiple personalities.
I think you mean bipolar?
I wonder if Santa Claus is bi-polar??
Bipolar is not multiple personalities either. It seems bipolar is the new condition to make ignorant jokes about these days...
Dissociative identity disorder is the term for multiple personalities.
ROFLMAOPIMP!!!!!!!!
Good gawd you people are anl. It's called a joke.
What the hell is their problem? Do they not realize that they authorized Harmonix (and now Activision) to model their game controllers off of their guitars? It's not like the two developers made these electronic "replicas" without getting Gibson's approval first. I don't know what's going through Gibson's head, but whatever it is, it's not logic or sanity. Gibson, get a grip, grow up, and think before you act (both in the product licensing and in the lawsuits).
It's unrelated. They're suing about a "virtual reality" device that shows concert footage, and uses a guitar with a separate track for the guitar.
"A copy of the patent is included in Gibson’s lawsuit and dated Nov. 23, 1999. It describes a device that lets a user 'simulate participation in a concert by playing a musical instrument and wearing a head-mounted 3-D display that includes stereo speakers.'
The device also includes playback of audio and video of a prerecorded concert and a separate track of audio from the user’s instrument."
In Guitar Hero:
1. You don't play a musical instrument.
2. There is no head-mounted display.
3. There are no stereo speakers.
4. There is no audio/video of a prerecorded concert.
5. There is no separate track of audio from the user's instrument.
That all ya got, Gibson? Cause you may want to try suing me for playing air guitar, too.
That's the killer right there - their patent applies to a musical instrument being used in the simulation. The guitar used in GH is most definately not a musical instrument...
Actually 4 and 5 are technically incorrect. There IS prerecorded music, and the guitar track played in guitar hero is kept separate from the vocals and other instruments.
@Konstantino:
"4. There is no audio/video of a prerecorded concert."
I HAVE heard prerecorded music, but not from any concert.
"5. There is no separate track of audio from the user's instrument."
There ARE separate tracks during song play, but not FROM the user's instrument. A separate track be turned on or off based on input from the user, but there is no audio coming from the instrument itself (as it would from a real guitar).
I would argue that 4 and 5 ARE technically correct.
its already to late to remove it. Everybody and their mother has guitar hero
It's never too late to stop new releases. Look at what happened to Buffalo and all their routers. You can't get them from retailers anymore. That's a shame cause I love their routers. I'm not sure Gibson has much ground here. But, if they take their case to Texas, they'll probably win.
Must be a "likeness" issue. Ya it looks like a guitar. Ya, Gibson makes guitars. Hope Gibson looses, seems like a frivolous lawsuit.
It's more complicated than that - they look like GIBSON guitars, because Gibson licensed the likenesses and designs of their guitars to the publishers of the game!
If they licensed it then there shouldnt be an issue...right?
Doesn't Gibson realize this game has undoubtedly sent who knows how many millions of gamers out to buy real guitars...
... which after a couple of weeks or a broken string, will sit in the corner, collecting dust but looking "kewl".
When Guitar Hero is outlawed, only outlaws will have Guitar Hero.
And my Schwartz will be bigger than yours.
i think gibson never realized that a ban on guitar heroes will deter away from future developments, which in effect screw his own patent..
*developers
"Hey lets make a new guitar heroes name.."
"Nah, I hate being sued, last time we pulled our stuff, people sent death threats to us"
"How about another carbon copy FPS though?"
"Sounds great, that'll at least make more money with all those DLC maps"...
*meanwhile, gibson hugs his patent to sleep, every freaking earthly day...
it seems like people and companies are getting more sue-happy every day....
Is it that companies are more sue happy today or is it that we hear about every frivolous lawsuit almost the moment it gets filed?
Gibson is just mad that they've been making the same boring ass guitars for the past billion years, and can't pull themselves out of the gutter...
Are you kidding?
Gibson is classic! They stand by their guitars because they know they are perfect! Boring ass guitars? Aren't you the one holding the Gibson shaped controller?
You don't fix something thats not broken. Theres no need to change anything about their guitars because theres nothing wrong with them at all. Personally, many of my friends swear by Gibson, and I won't play anything thats not a Gibson unless its an Ibanez. ;)
@PhilxBefore
You're missing the point. Although the Gibson Les Paul is one of the best guitar models available (comparable to Fender's Stratocaster and Telecaster models) it is OVER 40 YEARS OLD and has been copied/emulated/licensed to/by numerous companies (such as Yamaha).
The fact is that you are not actually holding a Gibson Les Paul, rather an approximation of it's appearance which is a fundamental falure point of this lawsuit. You are not actually holding a guitar or a musical instrument of any kind. If you maintain that a Guitar Hero controller is a musical instrument, the same must be said for all control pads, keyboards and mice on the planet.
Without any aids:
If you play a Guitar Hero controller, what do you hear? A series of indistinguishable clicks.
If you play a real guitar, what do you hear? A series of notes which are distiguishable by volume, pace and most importantly, pitch.
I will agree that Ibanez produce some awesome instruments and design ideas.
lol, what's wrong with find one on ebay or other auction online?
Patent Stupidity.
I concur with NHAnimator.
Guitar Hero is NOTHING like participating in a concert.
IT'S A GAME!
This shit needs kicking out of court sharpish.
Then someone needs to kick the shit out of whichever Gibson exec/lawyer that came up with this.
The're only making themselves look like COMPLETE NUMPTIES.
Would Gibson still sue if the game were called "Saxophone Hero" with hits from Kenny G and the like? Absolutely not.
The issue here must be that Gibson sees FAKE guitar sales biting into their REAL guitar sales. It's far more likely, in my mind, that their sales should increase because of the fact that the people exposed to guitar hero are more likely to want to play a real guitar.
The reason Gibson will have this lawsuit thrown out is that ultimately the "guitar" in guitar here is just a joystick with a shoulder strap. The shape is completely arbitrary, existing solely to mimic (quite poorly) the appearance of a musical instrument; unlike an actual guitar which has a particular (albeit somewhat flexible) design for a reason.
so you think guitar hero's guitars are taking away sales from Gibson? ummmm, how? a guitar hero guitar is a controller and can only be used in one way...to play a video game. meanwhile a gibson guitar can be played anywhere. the two look similar, but are completely dissimilar in usage. if anything guitar hero will spur guitar sales, therefore helping Gibson, because now you have all the wanna be rockers buying guitars. Now, if someone was making counterfeit gibson guitars (read: actual guitars, not guitar hero guitars), then you would be on to something.
ah, forget my post. i missed something in your original post. however, i dont think gibson has an issue with activision selling guitars for their games, they just want their precious patent that they arent using to protect them and give them lots of money. its a shame we can't delete posts.
If it is sales or not, either way, gibson's patent is dif than what GH is.. Soo I have a crazy Idea..
Why doesnt Gibson do something with that patent and ride the GH hype like RockBand and bring in new money off their Gibson Hero..
Kenny G on Saxophone Hero? I'm not even going to comment...
He's only "the world’s most renowned saxophonist" http://www.kennyg.com/bio.php ;)
Meh, I got rid of Guitar Hero for Rockband anyway...although this is total BS on Gibson's part. You only licensed the design OF YOUR FREAKING GUITARS!!!! I mean it's not like they snuck this game in on you, YOU WERE INVOLVED IN PRODUCING IT, YOU MORONS!
the issue isnt with how the guitars look at all. did you read the article? its about the concept of guitar hero infringing on one of their patents, or so they think.
I get that, it's just that you'd think that a company that is licensing their products to be in a game about playing virtual guitars would be smart enough to know their own intellectual property, and when approached would say, "Hey didn't we patent something like this a while back? Hey we'll get back to you before we allow our designs to be used in your patent infringing game." Rather than letting the idea become a marketing juggernaut and then try to stop a pretty fast moving train.
I just want credit for the stories that I lead engadget to.
I play guitar and was thinking it might be nice to own a Les Paul as my next electric. I'll be rethinking that now and buying from a company that spends their time making guitars rather than licensing their product to a video game company and then turning around to sue them.
buy a paul reed smith
Im with you on that one. I will never ever buy a gibson guitar now and am thinking about emailing gibson to let them know that.
Gibson sued Paul Reed Smith a while back and temporarily succeeded in halting the production of PRS's Singlecut guitar based on some trumped up trademark infringement case.
Naturally, PRS had the lawsuit thrown out on appeal, and resumed production of the Singlecut.
Gibson is a company that has ceased to innovate and has a tendency of killing off or kneecapping acquired companies like Opcode (StudioVision) and Steinberger.
Having been screwed twice by Gibson as an Opcode and PRS customer, I don't think I want to buy any of their products.
there trying to recoup the damage form the Tonedeff Fiasco a while back!
link1: http://blog.qn5.com/2008/general/rant-gibson-hates-hip-hop
link2: http://blog.qn5.com/2008/general/the-power-of-the-internet
the power of the internet is an amazing thing :)
um how long have the gibson guitar hero controllers been out? I kinda assumed that they got permission to use the gibson name. specially cause gibson guitars have been in the game itself to buy since the first game which came out, oh what, like 2 and 1/2 years ago?
This is a case of right hand not knowing what left hand was doing. Right hand patented an "idea" about a virtual rock concert. Left hand licensed the Gibson guitar likeness to a game franchise for X. Right hand has forgotten it even has a patent on an "idea" sorta similar to said game. Someone looking to make their bones in legal discovers said patent on an "idea" and takes it to right hand who subsequently sues game maker. Left hand is still raking in the dough for the very game right hand is trying to get pulled. Right hand contemplating suing left hand for patent infringement.
Gibson took "this action reluctantly". Oh yeah, I bet it just broke their hearts to have to do this.
In fact, "Gibson took this action reluctantly" means the guy responsible for licensing the guitar shapes and the Gibson name to Activision tried his best to stop the trigger-happy moronic crackhead lawyer who decided to sue Activision for the violation of their stupid unrelated patent. But failed.
And yes, I suppose Activision will soon sign a licensing contract with Fender or Ibanez.
Dumb mistake... Guitar Hero has probably helped actually sell guitars for Gibson.
I'm sure there have been thousands of people who thought Guitar Hero was cool, it inspired them to play a real guitar... they buy one that looks like the Guitar Hero one (although prolly one of those epiphone branded ones).
Of course most would quit after 2 months, realizing that the real guitar wasn't as easy as Guitar Hero made it seem :P...
Coming soon...
"Activision announces a new partnership with Fender to provide Stratocaster controllers for all future Guitar Hero games." At least, I hope this is coming soon, anyway. I prefer the look and feel of the Strat to the Les Paul anyway.
Any judge who doesn't see that this is nothing more than a baseless money grab needs to be disbarred.
Fender is partnered with Harmonix with Rock Band... they have Strat controllers.
Between Gibson and Fender, that covers just about all of the "great American guitars."
Martin and Taylor are mostly acoustic... though Taylor just introduced a pretty nice solidbody electric.
I know it is a bit off topic, but does anyone know if they finally released a patch that would make the GH3 guitar compatible with Rockband (PS3 version)? I have searched everywhere, but I only get outdated responses saying it was blocked by activision on December of last year. Thanks!
Yeah, the people at Gibson are really smoking crack. They're getting paid to license their guitars for the games and have been for some time... Oh wait, what's this patent? Where'd this come from? Let's sue our partners!
It's probably a safe bet now that we will NEVER see any more Gibson guitars on any of these games. I bet Harmonix is happy that they went with Fender! I wonder who Activision will go with next time? PRS?
In my opinion, patents should be revoked if the company hasn't acted upon them in a reasonable amount of time (a year or maybe two at most).
It's obviously not that easy, but I agree.
Wow, nice way to shoot yourself in the foot, Gibson... if I'm not mistaken Guitar Hero opened up a slew of new customers to guitars. That's ok Gibson, protect a slightly possible violation in intellectual property and throw away a very real amount of sales.
One of the comments on this site made a good point. Since Gibson and Activision have been partners on Guitar Hero, I think this whole lawsuit has been ramping up to a pretend demand for retailers to pull the game from the shelves. That will cause everyone to go out and buy all of the games thinking they won't be available in the future. I'm not falling for it... I think Gibson and Activision are in this together and it's all a load of crap to sell more games.
Any company that uses silly patents as sledgehammers deserve to be boycotted.
The patent is ridiculous, as is the lawsuit. Gibson deserves our derision. Not our business.
"we aren't commenting" = "Bite Us Hard!"
I could see suing Activision. They'd at least have a level litigious playing field. Suing Walmart, Target, K-Mart, and the rest all together? Might as well bend over and settle this out of court for the nothing you're likely to get Gibson.
There have been actual MIDI/Guitar interfaces out there in the wild for years and years and a lot of those are used for practice as well as playing in actual gigs live.
Here's a link from Google that isn't even one of mine!!
http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/mgtr.htm
The idea of using a guitar coupled with a computer/videogame is not new. I think Gibson's going to drop this thing.
http://www.b0nehome.com
Gibson please stop flooding our courts with bogus lawsuits!
I also don't like Gibson anymore , I think sue stores was the last straw.
Did it ever cross anyone's mind that maybe Gibson bought their way into Guitar Hero's idea BECAUSE they knew they already owned a patent on it?
I think they would stand to make more money, seeing how a company with THEIR (vaguely) similiar idea would do, then if it was a success sue the crap out of them for something they owned to begin with? They risk nothing in the initial concept i.e. Gibson Hero, millions invested and then flops.
In all honesty, in America, its a very clever, greedy plan.
The reality is that some dipshit IP lawyer working for Gibson said hey, we have a patent for this doo-hickey that might somewhat resemble that Guitar Hero thingy we worked on a while back. I'll bet we could convince a judge who has no concept of video games, and head-strappy doo-hickeys to give us some money.
I'll call it right now, Activision is going to settle, and give Gibson a cut, which is probably what they wanted in the first place and Activision told them to pound sand.
Fred is right. Lesson 1: Invalidity doesn't usually work. Courts and juries defer to the patent office (who granted it). Lesson 2: Non-infringement does work. If the judge needs to let you off the hook, he will simply redefine the patent to exclude you. Lesson 3: Activision, by bothering to mention the (desperate) 3 year laches thing in public, pretty much is running scared. The broad claims are in the back end of the patent, e.g., claim 25. Activision will argue "musical instrument" in the patent has an "ordinary meaning" - it generates the musical sounds itself, not like a controller. Unfortunately, real life has counter examples - like electronic drum pads, etc. Gibson will point to a zillion examples and say a musical instrument is anything that ends up making music. It will be up in the air in view of col. 5, lines 11-15, of the patent, risky risky. Activision will argue "pre-recorded video track" excludes the real-time, responsive animations of the cheesy avatars. Unfortunately, there's a lot of motion capture there and it does show up on your TV, so both "pre-recorded" and "video" are pretty much there. Gibson will say it is in fact a pre-recorded video track. That's about it. "Activision and Gibson have settled on mutually agreeable terms. All suits against retailers have been dropped. Activision and Gibson are excited about the future, yada, yada, yada.". Possible result - Gibson exclusive to the extent of no Fender instruments or almost none on Guitar Hero, which could be Gibson's whole strategy, really. Every cool kid wants a Gibson 'cause that's the only guitar in the Guitar Hero IV, V, etc.
Quick email to Gibson:
From: ME
Date: March 21, 2008 3:26:49 PM EDT
To: service@gibson.com
Subject: Gibson, the "patent lawsuit" and my son
To Gibson, in general.
I've become aware of Gibson's lawsuit regarding a "virtual reality" patent.
Snippets from
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23732204/
"Gibson has already tried to stop video game publisher Activision Inc. from selling all versions of the game, claiming it too closely matches a musical virtual-reality patent from 1999.
The guitar company said in a released statement that it took “this action reluctantly, but is required to protect its intellectual property.”
My son, who is now of an age to regularly take real music lessons, has been partially fueled/inspired by playing Guitar Hero. It's the only recent example I can provide of a entertainment game being used to bridge into a real world activity of learning guiatr ( or any other formal music lessons ).
However, I have a high degree of disdain for patent battles, especially when the litigant does not have a product based on the patent.
In short, this is incredibly laughable for a guitar company to sue over a patent for things it does not nor cannot compete in the marketplace with.
As I take my son to get his first guitar, I can assure you it will not be a Gibson.
Further, I will be taking sandpaper to the existing Guitar Hero guitars we have to insure the "Gibson" trademark ceases to exist in my household.
If it wasn't for his age, and impressionability .. I would replace the logo with "JackAss". His name will have to do.
My Name
My City, State
Thank God....when I play air guitar I always use a Fender....WHEW!!
its pretty pathetic people try to sue walmart and other big companys over frivilous lawsuits, lets hope walmart and target wins there suit cause whoever is trying to sue them has dog s*** for brains
Ok. The latest one is Guitar Hero 3. Why did they wait til now to sue. Why didnt they sue when it first hit the shelve.
I,personally, prefer Ibanez.
Yeah, this is weird. Why now???
Guitar sure looks as if fashioned after the Legendary Gibson Lespaul to me and that floor unit sure looks like a familiar Gibson Patented Distortion System as well! Somebody's guilty as all hell!
Great Toy for looser wanna be's that couldn't strike a lik to save their lives! You aint heard noth'en till you pick up a USA made (Phooey on the Mexican Made Version) Fender Strat or a Gibson Les Paul, a Digitech Vocalist and matching Distortion Systems and a Jimmy Hendrix Wah Wah Peddle etc....The Real Thing Baby! Dump that wanna be piece of crapp wanna be and pick up a Real Weapon!
Apparently Gibson hasn't seen the office of lawyers Wal-Mart has on hand to deal with ridculas little things like this. I have and trust me...Gibson hasn't got a chance in hell.
i love how all of you act like you know how patents and the laws around them work.
how many of you on here actually know what you are talking about, and how many of you are just upset cause some stupid video game you like might no longer be made any more.
How stupid could Gibson be. Kids are getting interested in music by playing these video games. They talk their parents into buying them a real guitar. The kids are going to buy guitars that are familiar with what they are playing. This is a marketing dream come true. They should be PAYING Guitar for the free advertisement. How STUPID can Gibson be.
I guess I will be an GH outlaw. I got my GH for Wii, come on Gibson try and take it from me!!!!!!
Shame on Gibson for litigating every time they turn around. This does nothing except raise the cost of living for all of us! I always liked the company but not any more.
gee, i just saw this in a sale flyer for toys r' us or target and thought i might wanna buy it. i fiddled with the guitar, don't you love how i say fiddle(?), over 15 years ago but didn't stick with it to get very proficient. i got into 4x4 show trucks and that took up all of my time, along with getting more horses, dogs, and cats. i was able to play a few songs on the guitar but as stated, i walked away from it and i have two guitar's still in a bedroom closet waiting for my return. the game sounded pretty neat and being that it's not a real guitar, i don't see how gibson can pull this stunt. i might head to toys r' us, target, walmart, k-mart tomorrow to see if they have any left on their shelves for sale. if not, i can always set up my casio keyboard and get back to plunking on the piano. who has time for the real thing though with such a busy life like i have? the game, on the other hand, will always have time set aside to play though 'cause people (I) gotta have fun now and then. be a shame if it's pulled off the market. shame on you gibson!!
Gibson needs to step back on this one. They have not taken part of a phenomenon that people are interested in music. Their guitars are some of the best. Cost too much and people were not buying them. Along comes guitar hero and kids are interested in music once again and parents too. Yeah for education and learning music.
I say don't buy Gibson anymore. If they are out for money only. Buy one at another shop or a Pawn shop. There are too many other important issues out here like Starvation in America, Single parent families and no health insurance. People who do not know what an internet is.
eh, not only kids play this game. many adults do too. everyone's always wanted to be a guitar hero and i bet some 80 year old's play it too. it isn't fair if it's pulled off the market, just think of all the oldtimer's that'll go to their graves without mastering this game. have a heart gibson!!
pleez
Funny how this lawsuit is just coming about. This game has been around for what - 2 or 3 years now? Maybe a little more? Seems fishy to me.
stupid lawsuits... anyone who owns one should dump a cup of coffee on it then smash it and send it back to gibson... mabey they might get the picture.... would be nice to see the smashing on youtube also?
.......
Guitar, Schmitar! Get a life people!
obviously gibson is worried about money. maybe they wouldn't be that bad off if they didnt charge $3000 dollars for a guitar that is really no better than I can get from ibanez or jackson or any of the other companies for under $1000
You know it's rather pathetic that Gibson has to sue over a game what is widely popular. It just shows how pathetic they are. They're most likely jealous that they didn't come up with the idea for Guitar Hero first and now they're wanting to get in on the action by doing what they only seem to know- damage their reputation even more in the pursuit of Money!!!
You guys need to learn to read the text of the lawsuit, it is not the sudo-guitar they are suing about . . . it is the title "Guitar Hero" printed on the box and or material, that they are whining about. But unless they patented "guitar hero 3" then they probably don't have a leg to stand on. Besides that, what will they end up doing about the SONG "Guitar Hero" that has been around for quite a while ??? And just where did they get the "Guitar Hero" title to patent it in the first place ???
Looks like Gibson might have barked up the wrong tree this time. What a waste of money, time, and resources. They must be bored and have nothing better to do, like make a new design for a guitar.
SirWalksAlot, Kenny G plays a clarinet, not a saxophone. Both are woodwind instruments but otherwise not interchangable.
I am not a musician. I have no musical talent whatsoever and know even less about musical games. I do know, however, that I'm getting sick and tired of ridiculous lawsuits jacking up the price of doing business in this country. If the losing side of a lawsuit were required to pay every penny of the winners expenses - including the lawyers fees - petty lawsuits like this one would never see the light of day.
Anyone know what a Fender StratoCaster is worth? I inherited one about 10 yrs ago, and think it was only about 2 or 3 at the time.
Anyone have an idea what a Fender Stratocaster is worth?? About 13 yrs old, like brand new.