Sony is giving "Fresh Start" a fresh start, losing the $50 fee
By Paul Miller 
posted Mar 21st 2008 5:40PM
posted Mar 21st 2008 5:40PM
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thanks for calling them out!
I swear the Engadget influence is way stronger than anyone can expect...
The E factor is like the force...
The Force...it surrounds us...and penetrates us...mmmmm...penetrates us.
@Raiden: it wasn't just engadget that made sony remove the fee it was amoung other tech blogs.
Good. Nice to see the correction taking place this fast.
I'm actually impressed at how quick this was resolved. I can't believe Im saying this, but "Good job Sony!"
Yeah, now if they'd jusr ditch Memory stick and start using SD cards, I'd actually buy a Cyber-shot.
Oh, and open up UMD too, Sony. What's the "U" stand for, huh?
. . . and let's not forget the rootkit. Still haven't forgiven you for that one.
. . . and oh yeah, ATRAC.
Am I leaving anything out?
If you want a Cyber-shot with microSD get a SO905iCS. It makes a great cellphone too.
@Smart People Play Tuba:
1. Conversely, I wish my Cybershot took SD cards.
2. The "U" stands for "Unfriendly".
3. I can't forgive them about the rootkit, either, but I defeated with Ubuntu. However, I know people who actually used those CDs on their Windows machines and they had a hella tough time getting rid of that shit.
4. ATRAC had its advantages/uses/appeal to a niche market.
You are forgetting MiniDisc, i.Link (IEEE 1394), and the compact disc but I figure those are successes, not failures.
I'm impressed. I really thought we would try to almost force them itno seeing there wrong ways, but heye, sony is now cool
... for even attempting to charge customers for this is unforgivable.
Why bother installing most of this crap anyways? This frustrates me because most "general" users won't know how to wipe their hard drives. They deal with all this junk slowing down their computer while making their lives a living hell. Windows gets the blame and they turn to Apple.
@ Mark
Though I'm a Hindu. I respect Christianity for forgiving some of the gravest sins. But somehow we can't seem to forgive a ridiculous $50 charge once corrected.
As far as being upset about all the "crap" that is placed on computers, its been said many times, It allows them to lower cost of their products since the companies that produce the crappy software pay to have them loaded onto computers. Fact: Computers have a very low margin. To remain competitive they have to do this. Its actually very cool that Sony is doing this.
Pouting with your arms crossing saying this is unforgivable is a bit childish.
Mark... Sony is probably the only company that even offers this fresh start option (other than Apple). Now they even offer it for free, even though they might lose revenue from software companies. Instead of criticizing the company from charging in the first place, you really should be giving it a lot of credits for being the first to offer this option and also the first to make it free. Stop being a jerk.
...and don't let it happen again!
yeah, less is more
i like how the site explains it as a 'thorough removal' of the crapware. uh, dont they mean, they don;t put it on in the firstplace? why would they put it on, then go through all the trouble of taking it off? it takes even computer-savvy people hours to get rid of that crap!
Hours? My dad's laptop took a day to hose the suckers out. I say it's hard, and it just sucks. Why do they load it inside the HDD anyway? "Customer Convenience?" My bottom.
I just do a total wipe of the hard drive (and hidden partitions) and start with a fresh installation of windows anyways, never know if those programs leave any residue/reg keys behind once they are uninstalled.
Sony, like other computer companies, think their software is the best there is and only someone crazy would not want it. It's probably installed automatically on all of their computers.
Then, when you order Fresh Start they have to pull a computer from the assembly line and have a tech guy spend those same hours to remove the software.
Haha look at the screen.
Instead of paying $50 to remove all the crapware, you will be paying $50 less if you choose not to remove the crapware. Which is technically exact the same, altough is sounds nicer. You still pay $50 more for a Fresh Start compared to the uhhh not-so-Fresh Start.
I love you Sony.
From the mouths of Sony...
"Crap they caught onto us! Hurry and change the wording!"
* Starting tomorrow...
no shit.
Come on, we all know that Sony won't save you a buck. They will be selling their Vaio's for at least $50 more in the future. Probably even $60 so they can recoup from giving away the Fresh Starts for free this time.
That's why we all love Sony. All your money are belong to them.
I truly hope you're being sarcastic, TubeTop100.com.
Sarcastic about what? I never buy Sony products, but I love all their entertaining decisions. Unbelievable how many mistakes a company can make.
- Forcing your crappy ATRAC3 format to your customers? Check.
- Removing the rumble function from your next-gen controllers? Check.
- Adding rootkits to your audio-cd's? Check.
- Let your customers pay $50 so their overpriced Vaio's actually work the way it should? Check.
That's why I love Sony. Everytime I think it's impossible to fuck something up even more, Sony comes out swingin'.
Besides that, having an option like 'No Fresh Start' when buying a new $1000+ computer is just sheer brilliance.
What was their old slogan again? Ohh yeah, I remember:
Only Sony
Did anyone actually notice that the picture is the same as the previous entry on this story? Did anyone actually think that even sony would try to get away with that one?
"Did anyone actually notice that the picture is the same as the previous entry on this story? Did anyone actually think that even sony would try to get away with that one?" - By Wolfticket
This was exactly my point. My comment about you being sarcastic should've been made clearer to point to the fact that Sony has but ANNOUNCED the change. Obviously Engadget does not possess the new webpage (yet) and therefore cannot have a new screenshot of it. Your first comment which is now 'Highest Ranked' is based solely on that screencap and that is why I said I hoped you were being sarcastic. I am, by all means, against all forms of bloatware on pre-assembled PC's, just like Dell's disgusting stuff, or HP's.
This was how they handled it before, I believe. It wasn't a $50 fee so much as it was a $50 reduction to the price if you agreed to keep the bloatware. Check the old story's photo for proof.
Hey, now they will only be overpriced laptops, not overpriced laptops that are DOA.
Now if only we could get the rest of the computer industry to drop 'crapware' from initial installs.
And add the $50 to the cost of the laptop....again its people like you who don't get it. Its people like you who expect sites that have huge hit rates to remain free..never mind the behind the scenes cost of running a site. But hey! It should still be free!
crapware drops the price of your computer, that is the blunt truth that people need to deal with.
Of course it costs money, I understand that, and more importantly that I can easily get rid of all the 'crapware' with a reinstall. But some people in the wonderful computing world are more than willing to spend a bit more for a computer that doesn't come with 'crapware' flowing out of every port. I am one of those wonderful pretentious bastards.
I posted on another post how I was pricing new Dell laptops...
They have a (somewhat) new line called "Vostro" for small business customers versus their Inspiron line for home users. The options are the pretty much the same, save the small difference in case design. Dell says that the Vostro small business line comes free of any pre-installed trial software.
So, knowing this I priced a 17" Vostro 1700 vs an 17" Inpiron 1720 with EXACTLY the same processor, RAM, HDD, video card, wifi card, bluetooth, same limited warranty, etc, etc. I compared the specs three times to be sure I got everything right. And how did they compare? drum roll... The Vostro was $159 MORE! Yep, what a deal! Only $160 required to keep that factory drone from installing 6 music jukebox apps, 4 cd-burning apps, 13 dial-up ISP connections, 2 conflicting wall paper changer programs, every version of Real player since 1994, and 9 different webcam plugins on Vista sidebar.
My god, seriously, I want to know how many man hours have been wasted on this shit! its crazy
Go Panasonic. They're free of crapware and it's 100% made in Japan (if you worry about that kind of thing). Don't work there (I can dream, though) but I'm very satisfied with my CF-T5. Best laptop I've had and great for international flights (one charge can last me through a trans-Pacific flight).
I don't know, where you can get that free option. I just looked at sonystyle.com. There you still have to pay the 50$ fee. And to make crap removal available in the first place you have to choose Vista Business instead of Home Premium which is another 100$. So a crap free system is 150$ ... nice.
Or you just do it with the free removal tool Sony offers. Hard decision.
FTA: *start offering the option for free as of tomorrow
Ah, right - it's tomorrow over here. So it's only 100$ then for Vista Business ;)
they should have kept it. Sorry guys but do you really think they put that software on there for the hell of it. That $50 is probably the rough amount that they make off the combined install of that crapware. It is NO different then a site trying to make a bit of money via adspace. Hell considering how much Dell, et al makes off of these systems, clue: it isn't much....
You want to know why you pay a premium on a mac...beyond the OS and the included apps is the lack of this "crapware." You aren't subsidizing the price of the laptop with in-OS adspace. And frankly if people don't like it they should pay that $50 or get someone to reimage the system for them to remove that crap....oh or use.
http://pcdecrapifier.com/
But Sony blinking isn't the right move. This all comes back to the concept that consumers have, that a good laptop should be sub $1000 for some reason. guess what...the cost has to go somewhere and Dell, Gateway, HP, toshiba, Sony can't always eat it for the hell of it.
So grow a pair and pay the $50 to remove that crapware and pay for just the OS and the hardware...or don't because its optional anyways.
I would like to point out that all that crapware that is included is revenue for Sony. Do you think they just put that crap on there just to annoy you? No, they are getting paid advertising dollars by the makers of that crapware. The $50 was a feeble attempt to recoup that lost revenue.
Now, let me point out that I hate the crapware and always do a fresh install once I get my computer.
Sorry about repeating Jon Doe.
It's a good thing Dell gives you the choice to drop all that crap during your ordering process. Of course, those who are not well informed about the crapware may opt to include it thinking they're getting a better deal, when the rest of us know better. Computer manufacturers know what they should do, but they don't because they get paid by MS, Adobe, Synatec, and many other companies to include all that junk one will never use but it's running in the background robbing your pc of precious power.
I'm still not satisfied... calling it a 'fresh start' and making the default "filled with junk software" is misleading and confusing. Again, a fresh start implies that something was incorrect, broken and needed a "fresh start" to correct. I don't know about you, but I think of a criminal who got a second chance at leading a normal life as a model of a "fresh start".
The default should be "Clean", and you should receive a $50 rebate for choosing to add that software. That seems more honest and fair to me.
Call them on their bull-shit, again! Like someone else said, subtracting $49.99 from the price to ALLOW the crapware still makes electing to DENY crapware fiscally disadvantageous for the customer.
Uhhhmmm.... Engadget just posted the same pic as on the previous article. The fee will be gone tomorrow. Ok?
They finally took the hint, Finally a stable Sony computer is in the works
I dont mind the crapware as long as it makes the pc cheaper. I have format+CD= Fresh install. Then i run what ever i want on it. I just think it was stupid to charge people for nothing.
What I'd really love to see is a breakdown of the OS and what comes on it. I'd order computers with no OS and install Linux on it, saving the licensing fees to Microsoft. Dell has kind of moved in the right direction on this, but I wish that others would follow. I ended up building my last machine because I didn't want Windows.
I'd dig seeing exactly how much the OS costs the consumer at the end of the process.
Never underestimate the power of the Internet!
I hate Sony, they have been pushing proprietary hardware on people for decades. I cannot believe they won the HD-DVD war.
I have a Vaio (work gave it to me) its the biggest piece of junk (mind you its top of the line). Can't wait to trade it in for my new x300.
who do you think you are, sony? Apple?>
As long as the programs can be removed easily then I don't mind seeing them there. But kudos to Sony for doing this for free. But now I have a related experience for you about why I hate HP laptops.
1. Bought a nice HP laptop on a bright cheery day
2. Removed all the shit that came with it except for one program, Vongo (because I couldn't)
3. I looked for an uninstal vongo icon in the start menu, no luck.
4. Curious to see what it is, I click on it. Doesn't work.
5. Try to remove it via remove programs. Fails.
6. Try to visit the website, blocks me out because I'm Canadian.
7. The fucking program only works in America and I couldn't get it off my computer.
I'm incredibly pissed off that HP would put a program on my computer that doesn't work in Canada, and can't be removed. Oh I almost forgot the best part, HP charges 20 bucks to remove that one program.
Please don't buy HP lappies if you can avoid it.
Everyone that's saying that they just changed the wording, the screenshot at the top of this story is the same screenshot from the original story, it does not reflect the new policy that will be in effect tomorrow.
thanks Sony, but I'm all too happy with my Toshiba laptop--minimal bloatware and a fine computer that's not overpriced just because of the brandname...
I think it was just common sense that made them remove the fee. Or maybe
it was an intelligence test, if you failed you got the tech support number in India
printed on your new computers manual.
All their computers are overpriced to begin with so who would add insult to injury and
pay to have crap-ware removed from their new computer? And for another $25we can
have the UPS man that delivers your computer give you a swift kick in the balls.
Proof that the only way to get anywhere in this world is to speak up.
It's nice to know that a big corporation like Sony still pays attention to its customers and understands our general reactions this quickly.
What no-one seems to be talking about is that you can only use Fresh Start on Vista Business, so they're sticking you for $100 anyway...
So, basically, software companies are /paying people/ to use their crap?
Nice market you've got there...
Paying them for a mere 60 or so days of using their software, too, I might add. Usually, when salespeople start doing that they realize it's time to reconsider their direction...
All I can say is lol......
I'm sorry that everyone thinks this is just some freebie for Sony. They're offering a fresh PC without affecting their bottom line, by passing the additional costs onto the consumer and making it an option. Instead of being applauded for this bold move that no other company has taken, they are ATTACKED??! The tech enthusiasts sure are a bunch of self-righteous jerks.
Bravo to Sony for providing the option, jeers to the consumers for complaining about it, and jeers again to Sony for giving in. This is a premium service and it's worth the fifty bucks, especially considering they are losing that much by doing this.
For those that decry Sony for being a hypocritical company, this may actually be a genius move. I know you may think "How is that possible?", but I'll explain why and then you can begin ripping me apart.
First, Sony is not doing well. You can find this out on your own. What to do? "Hey, let's get huge amounts of publicity by playing the 'Heartless Corporation' card, then backpedal and give the consumers what they want."
By putting the "Fresh Start" option on their site and leaving it on there just long enough, many writers and blogs will see this "injustice" and report on it. Once the outrage has spread like wildfire, Sony puts out a press release.
Sony now tells us that they made a mistake, and will begin to offer "Fresh Start" free. Whether or not the consumer actually benefits by $50 is up for debate. But that's not the point. The point is to show the public what they're doing.
For those on the border, Sony may think this little option will push them over to their side. Sony will sell more laptops, and fatten its wallet. By providing an option that consumers want which doesn't hurt the bottom line, Sony is being devilishly clever.
As you know, Sony products come at a premium. It is not hard to believe that this premium can easily cover the supposed loss of the "Fresh Start" fee. As some have said here, does the consumer really benefit? I think so. Buying the laptop is a sign that they think the benefit justifies the cost.
I know this is a common business practice, but various comments here have led me to think that a lot of people don't understand this act.
Thanks for your time in reading this. You can begin ripping away.
James Yopp had a comment on the previous article about Sony blundering with their Fresh Start program, which they could have worded like so:
"1. Clean Install - Your new VAIO PC will come out of the box swinging, with a set of lean and mean applications; Certain VAIO applications and applications provided by our advertising partners will not be preinstalled, and will not be included on your install discs. These applications will be available online should you choose to install them.
2. Full Extras (Subtract $50.00) - The complete suite of VAIO applications, plus select online games and software packages from our advertising partners, will be included on the hard drive and in the restore disc. [Link: See complete list of included software]"
(Direct link: http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/21/sony-hates-you-offers-50-fresh-start-option-to-build-your-la/comments/11147799/ )
Lucky for us that James doesn't work at Sony, so their PR blunder now means we don't have to fork over more cash. ^^
Mark... Sony is probably the only company that even offers this fresh start option (other than Apple). Now they even offer it for free, even though they might lose revenue from software companies. Instead of criticizing the company from charging in the first place, you really should be giving it a lot of credits for being the first to offer this option and also the first to make it free. Stop being a jerk.
The reply didn't work.. sorry...