Comcast, Time Warner, Sprint, and Clearwire could join forces on WiMAX, help from Google and Intel possible

As unlikely as this sounds, rivals Time Warner Cable and Comcast are apparently in talks with Sprint and Clearwire over establishing a nationwide WiMAX network. According to a report in the Wall Street Journal, the companies are scrambling to get a deal wrapped up by CTIA -- which takes place at the beginning of April -- and could see an influx of cash from both Google and Intel in excess of $1 billion. It seems the odd-couple partners are keen to cut into heavyweights Verizon and AT&T's ever-expanding range of at-home and mobile services by offering their own take on a high-speed data and voice system to consumers. Clearly this combination would deflate AT&T and Verizon's big FCC bandwidth-nabs a little (and it explains why the cable players weren't interested in the 700MHz auction), but it's questionable whether this rag-tag team of wild card players would seriously court the public's eye. They say America loves an underdog -- even if it's a gigantic, super-rich, corporate underdog.

[Via mocoNews]

[kingkael @ Mar 25th 2008 11:45PM]

I'm a little tired of seeing company logos and hearts.

[tokyo_suicide @ Mar 25th 2008 11:46PM]

Would you rather see CEOs and some gay material?

[happy_penguin @ Mar 25th 2008 11:55PM]

HA Tokyo... You ain't right. :D :D

[Dave @ Mar 26th 2008 12:03AM]

Could we just settle for the ex-governor of NJ and call it even?

[NumberXII @ Mar 25th 2008 11:46PM]

I Hate Comcast With The Passion Of 10,000 Suns.

[happy_penguin @ Mar 25th 2008 11:58PM]

I have a hate/love relationship with Comcast. I loves my internets. I hate my television service and I hate the damn cost. I guess my hate to love ratio is 2:1.

[Aguiluz @ Mar 25th 2008 11:52PM]

*waits to read a repost with all the hearts crossed out*

[Aguiluz @ Mar 25th 2008 11:54PM]

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/adobe-says-flash-is-coming-to-the-iphone/
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/adobe-flash-for-iphone-might-be-a-little-harder-than-we-thought/

[AutoTom @ Mar 25th 2008 11:57PM]

america loves underdogs?

that's australia's thing.

always has been.

[rock99rock @ Mar 26th 2008 12:02AM]

I used to like the idea of WiMax, until i saw this...

[Dave @ Mar 26th 2008 12:05AM]

yea with Comcast being involved you already know its inherently evil...all we need now is Verizon to join in to really make WiMax the spawn of Satan and corporate america.

[facebookfake @ Mar 26th 2008 12:15AM]

Agreed. That just looks like an orgy of incompetence.

[Ryan Trevisol @ Mar 26th 2008 9:17AM]

@facebookfake: Exactly. I can just envision what the high-level talks sounded like

"Hey, you guys want to start a nationwide WiMax network?"
"Sure!"
"Sounds awesome!"
"Splendid!"
"Hey, isn't that gonna take a LOT of money?"
*everyone takes out their wallets*
Clearwire: "I got 37 bucks."
Comcast: "$249.50"
Sprint: "I don't carry cash"
TimeWarner: "Well I'm trying to sell this boat . . . then i should have a couple thousand."

[Joseph @ Mar 26th 2008 12:07AM]

yeah, they COULD,

but it ain't gonna happen

[Balance_in_Life @ Mar 26th 2008 12:10AM]

Meh, FIOS is still the way to go. And until something is faster, FIOS is where I'll stay.

[Dan @ Mar 26th 2008 12:15AM]

WiMax = Wireless
FIOS = Wired

Two way different subjects.
No doubt FIOS is way better, faster and is able to deliver more...But it can't do so wirelessly.

[Balance_in_Life @ Mar 26th 2008 12:59AM]

See though the problem here is, when I think Clearwire I don't think wireless. With Clearwire you still need to lug around a modem the same size as a cable modem. But yes, I see where you were going. My mistake!

[ethana2 @ Mar 26th 2008 12:48AM]

When your internet /is/ your phone, you'll take all the mobility you can get, man.

data = data = data.
The second a connection's contract indicates that someone thinks otherwise, screw it.

[Eric @ Mar 26th 2008 11:12AM]

Dear Dan,
"WiMax = Wireless FIOS = Wired"

Actually, you should think of it like this...

WiMax = FIOS replacement

Sprint is deploying 'Fixed Wireless' Wimax. Which means you have a modem in your house, much like a cable modem or DSL modem, that has an antenea (crappy penetration with WiMax).

And it will be a lot cheaper cuz WiMax chip technology is about 1/10 the cost of CDMA technolgy.

[Dan @ Mar 26th 2008 12:19AM]

Wouldn't something like this put Sprint way ahead of the game for a 4g network?

[IndiaTech @ Mar 26th 2008 12:20AM]

Don't we just love it when Big Corporations come together to screw customers...

[CB17 @ Mar 26th 2008 12:47AM]

I like the part where you said "As unlikely as this sounds..."

[CB17 @ Mar 26th 2008 12:51AM]

Isn't Google working with the White Space Consortium? I'm a bit skeptical...

[marc @ Mar 26th 2008 12:53AM]

I think what's happening here is sprint has the tech, but is running out of hard cash (wimax don't come cheap). Verizon and AT&T are getting into a position in which they could kill of sprint and less competition for them means they can hold more of a firm grip on the cell market as well as sneak into digital TV and VOIP. In another 5-10 years nobody is going to need a landline or cable, so it makes sense that the cable companies want to make sure they've got something to fall back on, and if they have to buy sprint to do it, well i'm sure it's pretty cheap right now. I'm surprised not to see HTC in the group as well as intel as they've also been pretty heavily involved with wimax.

all that said, i look forward to paying one flat monthly fee for a 4G phone/computer...no matter how evil the company is. Better then waiting two years for Lten.

[Nikonov @ Mar 26th 2008 1:12AM]

Time Warner Cable and Comcast are involved? No... No I don't think I like the sound of this at all.

[modenadude @ Mar 26th 2008 2:00AM]

April Fools!

[Robert Linderman @ Mar 26th 2008 3:41AM]

Hmmmm...I suppose I am the only person here who can see this happening to give WiMax a chance for success here in the US. Presently, Sprint is finally going to get to utilize the 2.5Ghz spectrum they have been sitting on since 1986. Clearwire owns the second most 2.5 and they have been waiting to use it for their WiMax product. Clearwire has been selling their Expedience product for over four years now and have done very little to improve it because they are holding the WiMax card which is significantly more robust than any wireless mobile broadband product in the market.

Both Clearwire and Sprint are bleeding money, big time. In comes Intel, Time Warner, Comcast and Google to save the day. Clearwire makes a deal with Google for eMail hosting and more. Intel is hurting now and have made a significant investment in Clearwire and WiMax.

Craig McCaw of Clearwire evidently has a passion for mobile broadband. He attempted to give it to us with Teledesic and fell short. Clearwire is really McCaw's big chance to make an impression on the industry.

I realize all of you hate big business and you have all made your statements very clearly. But the bottom line here is this is your big chance to have high speed Internet wherever you go. They are going to do accomplish this at least two years before Verizon and AT&T with LTE and most likely three or more years if LTE even works when it comes out.

Presently Sprint has deployed WiMax in Chicago, Washington, D.C. and Baltimore. Clearwire is in Portland, OR. With all of this backing, you should be able to expect great things for this technology in a much shorter period of time since Time Warner and Comcast will demand it. If WiMax is for real (I experienced it at CES in Las Vegas with Sprint's XOHM and I was impressed), everyone will change their tone and you will all invest in it, love it, use it, depend on it and recommend it.

Remember, Clearwire is a start up company and they have really accomplished much. At least they are still around at five years (remember Ricochet?????).

The critical thing is this technology needs to be marketed, sold and managed like an Internet company and not a cellular phone company. The executives at the top and in middle management of these wireless firms should get more of a reality check by looking at the trenches instead of the metrics. For this or any technology like this to survive, there needs to be a commitment to mainstream American along with the ability to make a profit. You need to make wireless broadband as valuable as a utility and more valuable than a fixed broadband cable or DSL technology at a price that anyone can afford.

Presently, all of the companies are failing at this including Verizon, AT&T, Clearwire, Sprint, Alltel, etc. They are charging by the modem for each account. Since Americans are purchasing more laptop computers today at $450 or less each, homes today in this country have several computers. People are not going to purchase their computers with an imbedded WiMax modem if they have to pay for new accounts for each modem. With Verizon, Sprint and AT&T, you are talking about $59.99 each month, per modem, per account. Clearwire is doing a similar thing with their PCMCIA card. Americans will not pay $60 per account, per month for one modem, let alone for several. The paradigm needs to change and if it does not, then this will fail. Combine this with Verizon's stupid policy of charging $39.99 for 50MB of data per month with $.99 per MB over this or $59.99 per month with $.49 per MB for overages per month, you have an even greater disaster.

The Telcos made this mistake of charging by the MB with CDPD (Cellular Digital Packet Data) and customers had monthly surprises of thousands of dollars in their bills since consumers have absolutely no idea how much data they are using...it is simple to measure minutes or hours on a cell phone but to charge for data usage is embezzlement from the companies. This must be avoided at all costs by the WiMax companies and Verizon and AT&T needs to change their data policy to Sprints unlimited $59.99 or they will lose their data customers at a greater rate than Sprint is losing their voice customers last year.

To summarize, I really like this marriage and I think it has the potential to be great for the industry. It is so important now for all of the companies involved in this WiMax deal to listen to all of us Engadget board members to make this technology great and something that will revolutionize a technology we all crave.

As the Sirius-XM deal has a great chance to make good things happen for digital satellite radio, this deal should do the same for mobile broadband.

And let me state one additional thing...until LTE comes out in three or more years, this is our best and really only chance for real 4G speeds and range. You should all want a lot of money behind this product...the reason Ricochet failed was they ran out of money.

Let's all give it a chance and evaluate and enhance it as users!

[Kelex @ Mar 26th 2008 3:51AM]

well said my friend, but you cannot trust the devil. Or the 5 other devil's that come with it. There is some way Comcast will f*** this one up.

[Cassini @ Mar 27th 2008 8:36PM]

"...gigantic, super-rich, corporate underdog."

Hmmm... That has kind of a nice ring to it...


OK, but in all seriousness, I have to agree with much of what you said, Robert. I'm all for it. I want nationwide, blanketed coverage. And I want it to be fast, fast, FAST! To be continued...

People don't like the big corporate gorillas. And I understand. But what do they expect? I mean does anyone expect to have great service like this provided by a smaller, more intimate company? When do we ever get nationwide anything from anybody other than a big corporate gorilla? That's just the way it is. It takes a lotta lettuce to get something like this rockin' and rollin', and if we need to get a room full of Silverbacks to make it happen, then what other choice do we have?

As an aside, I have to say, you brought me down memory lane there for a moment. Ricochet? CDPD? Man, I remember those. Teledesic? Crikey, I haven't heard that name forever. I remember that old satellite company when they were doin' the song and dance in the '90's. Do you remember Iridium and Globalstar? None of these companies are in business anymore, are they?

At any rate, it's about time this industry was shook up and but good. And for the love of honor, these corporations must understand that in the wireless game, they can no longer nickel and dime customers to death. We're not in the '90's anymore, boys. These wireless companies would sell their own grandmother if they thought they could squeeze another dollar out of a dime.

I mean, do I have to spell it out for them? Flat rates and unlimited plans are where it's at. And give us a blanketed, nationwide, incredibly FAST network for both voice and data with a fantastic assortment of cutting edge phones. Position that business model and make your fortune through volume of customers.


OK, are ya ready? Can I REALLY share what I want? Shall I be bold? Shall I press on? OK, this is for the wireless gorillas and the wireless would-be's. So hold on tight, here goes...

I want:

- Nationwide, blanketed coverage
- 4G Speeds for voice and data (whatever that ends up being - just make that sucker FAST up and down the data pipe and keep the connection live while I'm moving, not just standing still)
- Unlimited Voice Calls (No more night and weekend nonsense and on and on - I don't even want to THINK about this anymore)
- Unlimited Internet Access (not watered down access like T-Zones, or MediaNet or any of that rubbish, but REAL internet)
- Unlimited Email
- Unlimited MESSAGING (Yes, that's right. Whether it's text, photo, audio, video, or IM, or a combo of those - quit acting like it's straining your network for me to send an itty-bitty message and that when you charge me another $20/mo., that I'm supposed to feel privileged for it. Get real. I don't want to give this another thought, either).
- Unlimited PTT
- A great selection of stylish, cutting-edge mobile phones
- Great customer service (Do I really need to say this?)
- NO CONTRACTS (Yeah, I said it. Why do you wireless gorillas think that I'm supposed to enjoy dragging around a ball and chain for two years? Why do you feel the need to lock me in to begin with? Are you insecure about what you're offering? You must know how much you're pummeling your customers, otherwise, why would you feel the need to lock them in? If you focused on giving them what they want, which is what I spelled out above, they'd never leave, and you'd have no reason to treat them like you're a predator baiting its prey).
- FLAT MONTHLY FEE (This would be for all of the above, and this doesn't mean $100/mo. Try $50/mo. You know, I have to pay taxes on top of that, too, Rockefeller. Remember, you're making it up in volume of CUSTOMERS. That's your ticket to the pot at the end of the rainbow. And yes, we know that wireless networks are expensive, but we also know you're making billions of dollars, otherwise, you'd all quit and go roll cigars for a living, so quit acting like your so burdened and poor that butter wouldn't melt in your mouth).

Oh yeah, and one other thing...

- With a FAST, always-on, blanketed nationwide network, leave the content creation to those who know what they're doing. As a wireless gorilla, all YOU guys need to focus on is giving customers consistent, unlimited, wireless voice and data access and coverage at an affordable, flat rate. I'm not interested in two channels of boring programming, complete with choppy video, and $2 ringtones. You're not a content company anymore than you're a hospital. It's not your job to entertain me. Leave the content to those who know what they're doing. And give me my $50/mo. all-you-can-eat. You do that consistently, and cycle your phone line-up with some great, innovative mobiles every year, I'll love ya forever.


Life is busy. And your customers are made up of these busy people. They're just trying to maintain their relationships, feed and take care of their families, maintain their homes, cars, careers, educations, health, finances, aging parents, and everything else. That's a lot. With that in mind, with all the things people have to deal with in this life - the groceries, the bills, the crying babies, and all the things I mentioned above - my wireless bill is practically at the bottom of the list. In all seriousness, who has time to worry or keep track of how many minutes, bytes of data, or other services they're using? Give me great coverage, make it fast, give me unlimited everything at an affordable flat rate, and no contracts. I want to be released and empowered to grow and live my life in a fast and busy world, not trapped and burdened.

Here's to hoping the "Six Silverbacks"* get it right.

(*That's my new nickname for them. Kind of endearing, dontcha think?)

[roflercopterer @ Mar 26th 2008 4:40AM]

I have comcast and sprint, I'm ready.

[Mike Juergens @ Mar 26th 2008 8:46AM]

About time!

[dukemang @ Mar 26th 2008 9:08AM]

Doesn't coming together of 4 substandard service providers signal the beginning of the Apocalypse?

[Ubuntu 7.10 WindowsXP @ Mar 26th 2008 10:47AM]

Time Warner bought AOL (which are thieves, lies, and complete dicks) to be put in the history books as the largest corporate buy out ever (Guiness book of world records 2005). The year after the merger AOL lost enough money to be added to the record books for largest corporate loss in history (same book). Time Warner bought out Netscape and then fired everyone on the development team (who are now known as the Mozilla Group). I am going to stop there.

I love Comcast. They never limited my bandwidth.

Sprint is the all time king of hidden fees and subsets of mobile minutes. But I will not rag on them because I don't have enough text-to-box-on-internet minutes.

And I have never heard of Clearwire before.

Lets do the math: -75 + 98 + 50 + 0 = 73 Avg. = 18.25
That is a failing grade in my book.

[sitruc @ Mar 27th 2008 4:06AM]

You hate AOL yet you post on this site...

[Ubuntu 7.10 WindowsXP @ Mar 27th 2008 1:44PM]

Yeah I hate AOL. I really hate AOL, that is nothing I plan on hiding. I post on this site because it is cool and mostly not controlled my AOL. If they suddenly decide to mutilate it like other projects they touch, then I will stop coming here all together. Owership is nothing like direct control.

[John @ Mar 26th 2008 11:10AM]

Enough with all the bashing. Sure, you've had some bad experiences with these companies but wouldn't you like to have WiMax available? Sure you would. A company like Sprint still has such a bad name but why? Do you really know why? In the past you probably experienced some bad customer services but what about lately? Doubt it.

Time Warner? My internet connection is flawless. I download a ton of stuff and play online almost every night. It's works fine. When I call customer services I always have a good experience.

Stop bitching and get excited about WiMax.

[Scott Equine @ Mar 26th 2008 12:05PM]

Agreed. Its neat technology and can significantly reduce costs of the last mile for Broadband.
When are you guys going to stop this weird cultist crapp of labeling companies, people, countries(!), "Good" and "Evil"?! ...its a little bit too Team America, no?

[Adrian Williams @ Mar 26th 2008 11:15AM]

FAIL
LTE is the way

[Ubuntu 7.10 WindowsXP @ Mar 27th 2008 1:49PM]

While I bash them. I will give Time Warner and the others involved a chance, except AOL. If this is a Time Warner project, great, I am completely on board. If they even mention AOL as a MAJOR part of WiMax, I am done with it. Minor option for the AOL users, fine. Major is just not acceptible.

[lianne777 @ Apr 1st 2008 12:03PM]

FTL!!