Verizon whines to FCC: make it easier for us to gain market share

In a somewhat perplexing (okay, maybe not so much) release from Verizon, it is essentially crawling to the FCC and begging that it assist the telco in bolstering its own market share. How so? By enabling cable subscribers to jump ship without even notifying their cable company, that's how. More specifically, it's seeking to banish "a significant obstacle to consumer choice and competition in the market for bundled communications services" by allowing disconnect orders from the new provider (read: Verizon) to take the place of, you know, the customer calling up their carrier and shutting things down. Verizon argues that said procedure "significantly complicates the process of switching video providers, thereby entrenching the cable incumbents' dominant market position." Beyond the inordinately high level of ridiculousness crammed into those statements, we wonder if Verizon's all geared up to start receiving similar letters from Comcast, Cablevision and the whole gang should any of its customers decide to walk away in silence.

[Vesh @ Mar 26th 2008 12:57PM]

But then you'd miss out on all those deals from the Retention Department...

[Longhorn @ Mar 26th 2008 12:58PM]

That'd actually be helpful if it went both ways (like Comcast could call up Verizon to shove it).

[Adrian Williams @ Mar 26th 2008 1:29PM]

With their VoIP

[Brodie @ Mar 26th 2008 1:47PM]

Hello, Verizon? Hi... this is Comcast calling. Uhh... it seems here that 100% of your FiOS subscribers are canceling their service. Yeah... tough break. And don't bother calling them... we've already switched them over to our service. Thanks for whining to FCC! It was very Comcastic of you.

[wizzle @ Mar 26th 2008 3:48PM]

I'm surprised they were even able to think of this without being crushed by the immense weight of irony that is their $175 early termination fee.

[mike @ Mar 26th 2008 1:00PM]

Seems like a good idea to me. Whatever makes it easier to switch is good for competition. The only down side is that you wont get all of the deals not to switch that I hear Comcast will give. If Verizon would pick up my old box from comcast and return it for me, that would even be better.

[Jamie @ Mar 26th 2008 1:15PM]

I'm curious what kind of deal you think Comcast will offer you if you don't switch????

When I tried to give Comcast an opportunity to offer a deal before I switched Verizon FIOS internet service, I got the response 'we'll offer you nussing (nothing)'. When I told them that once FIOS TV would be in my neighborhood soon and I'd also be switching my TV service, I heard dead air.

It's laughable that a company would not offer you anything to keep you from switching. That is, until you realize that the price fixing that is evidently been established between the two (site Verizon's early rise in FIOS TV rates) keeps them both happy regardless of churn.

[Alex @ Mar 26th 2008 3:51PM]

That's interesting. I called Comcast just to ask if they were planning on offering anything to customers that might switch to Verizon and walked away with internet half off for the next three months. Also, I was told to call back in three months to see if anything new was available in terms of these programs.

[yoshi @ Mar 26th 2008 9:07PM]

This is a bad thing. A VERY bad thing. Telco companies used to be able to do this. What happened was that several of those companies took it upon themselves to decide what was best for the consumer. People were having their local landline switched behind their back.

No, company A doesn't get my service until I SAY they get my service. And company B's service doesn't stop until I SAY it stops. BTW, this is yet another reason not to put bills on autopay. You get paid when I push the button (or write the check), not before.

[Dave @ Mar 27th 2008 12:33AM]

Don't get excited about the retention dept, because in markets that Comcast has no competition other than DirecTV (read: parts of Florida), when you call and say you'd like to cancel service, they just say "Okay" and offer you nothing. They used to offer deals, but after 6 months they stopped altogether with the retention offers.

[Jimbo @ Mar 26th 2008 1:01PM]

It kinda makes sense. Most people already do this when they switch cellular providers. Ever since number portability was implemented, this is how things have been done.

[Brent @ Mar 26th 2008 1:02PM]

Yeah, there's a bunch of ridiculousness involved there, but anyone doubt that number portability and the fact that the consumer doesn't have to contact their existing carrier has lowered the bar for switching providers? I could give a rats tail about helping Verizon out, but it is a consumer friendly move nonetheless so I say go for it.

[Brent @ Mar 26th 2008 1:16PM]

Wow, OK, so 4 people posted this exact same thing in the span of time it took us all to write our comments. This is so, like, just like number portability! ;)

[Jamie @ Mar 26th 2008 1:05PM]

Wow. I'm curious if Verizon itself will release THEIR customers of the 1 or 2 year contract they force on them when bundling.

It is unbelievable the bullshit that Verizon thinks they can push on the consumer.

[Frank @ Mar 26th 2008 1:09PM]

Anything that will make it easier to switch from Verizon sounds good to me--they have to be one of the worst companies on the planet!

The Blurgh

[Jason @ Mar 26th 2008 1:07PM]

I have worked in the Communications Industry, providing software to do voice cutovers for competitive providers, for over 10 years. I want to point out that I believe your post on this Verizon release is off base. Basically, Cable providers got full access to take away Verizon voice customers and cut them over to Cable voice very easily. This is not just LNP Local Number Portability, there are a lot of processes that have to be in place (LSRs) and Verizon and AT&T HAVE to have systems in place that enable competitors to easily take their customers, without those customers ever talking to the current voice provider (Verizon ATT). Cable companies then want the exact opposite when it comes to Video, they don't want to make it easy for consumers to sign up with a new provider. The cable companies are getting their cake and eating it too. For anyone with a cell phone, think about how easy it is to switch providers, decide to switch and that providers takes care of everything, yet this post seems to be disagreeing with the notion that we consumers should be able to do the exact same thing with video.

[Steve @ Mar 26th 2008 1:09PM]

While they're at it, perhaps the FCC could make it illegal for Verizon to charge me $175 to end my cell phone contract ...

[Stickynote @ Mar 26th 2008 1:11PM]

I jump through every hoop in the book if they'd just make fios available where I live. It's practically across the street... somehow I doubt this is the best way to go about getting more market share.

[Syke @ Mar 26th 2008 1:21PM]

Comcast was a pain in the butt to leave. It was very annoying and they tried to offer me free movie channels, but I said: SEE YA! I'm going to where they don't raise my bill by $30 every 4 to 5 months.... I was paying almost $200 a MONTH when I left them.

[SornyPanafonic @ Mar 26th 2008 6:22PM]

what services were you getting?? i was paying $260 a month to cablevision until i changed the name on the account to a different family member and now i save a whopping $60!! hey, thats like 6 six packs around here, or 25 st. ides 40s, or 4 smirnoffs 750ml. i may have a problem.

[Syke @ Mar 26th 2008 6:31PM]

Good grief, I was getting their Digital package with HBO, I think. :D Yeah, I think you have a problem. I am enjoying my much cheaper FIOS with Starz, TMC, Showtime, etc for much less... in HD.

[Anthony @ Mar 26th 2008 1:22PM]

The company I work for does this. When we get a customer to switch their business to us they may have just 1 or 50 companies we're taking over for. We send out a formal letter on their behalf noting the cancellation. It always works & it's easy for people to do.

[MadMike @ Mar 26th 2008 1:27PM]

Actually when I canceled Comcast to go to Verizon the lady offered me some package but good for 12 months only. When I asked what would happen after the 12 months were up, she said "well the rate rises to $185/month but you can always get another deal after only 6 months of the higher rate."

I was like "AHAHAHAHAHAHAH WHAT ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?!?!, No Ma'am, I think I'll be better off paying the $75/m Verizon charges me that's good FOREVER"

Still, Verizon is just as bad as Comcast. Sure, Bittorrent is faster and the 15Mbps down is good. The HD is MUCH better quality. But customer service, SUCKS HORRIBLY. ANd still, no FX in HD. That means "Rescue Me" won't be in HD unless I get Satellite.

[Jamie @ Mar 26th 2008 1:39PM]

Did you have FX HD on Comcast?? I'm in Pittsburgh and I've been looking for it to no avail.

[Jamie @ Mar 26th 2008 1:27PM]

Not entirely true. Your wireless provider will still force the early termination penalty.

In most cases, you don't sign a contract for cable service for a particular term other than month to month. So, in that regard, it is pretty easy to switch. Verizon's whole argument is off base. Calling my cable company to turn off service and return my box is not a big deal. I mean, I lease the box. If I bought the box, it would be easier.

Actually, say I got a discount on buying the box, and maybe even a greater discount if I decided to get a new one every two years. All in the hopes that I would microtransaction myself into a second mortgage by virtue of music downloads, web services, etc. via the box. If anything, Verizon might awake the cable giants into realizing that they could make a boat load more money by operating this way. If you think about it, set-top boxes are not much more expensive then the undiscounted mid- to high-end phones out today. Granted, they're not portable.....hey, wait a minute, if a cable giant commissioned set-top box makers to innovate into a smaller form factor to encourage people to transport them, they might be on to something there. Maybe not carry it around in your pocket, but maybe into your car....maybe you lease or buy one for the house and one for the car and sync up premium media to both....

I digress, but Christ, I would just be happy if the set-top box I have from Comcast didn't barf when I try to watch the Bourne Ultimatum on demand.

[MadMike @ Mar 26th 2008 1:48PM]

No, Comcast doesn't have FX in HD either. The only one to offer it is DirectTV.

[Maestro @ Mar 26th 2008 1:40PM]

Here in Tampa I switched from BrightHouse Networks to FiOS and the only real problem was that I had to return the set top boxes to BHN. I actually had to wait in a 25 minute line at the cable co to return the stuff because so many other people were doing the same!

[Douglas Pace @ Mar 26th 2008 5:17PM]

I keep reading this article again and again, assuming I must be missing something. How is it that Verizon is "whining" when they are trying to simplify customer choice? Verizon still has to deliver a service valuable enough to consumers for them to want to make the switch in the first place. Are you being paid by the cable companies?

[Darkest Daze @ Mar 26th 2008 6:43PM]

That's because Engadget loves to play on "what's the popular opinion". Since Verizon has both good and bad points, it's not as easy for them to gauge what kind of opinion we'll have as it is with someone like Apple. They know if it's an Apple story, it's ok to always take Apple's side, but since we usually both love and hate Verizon, they get screwed up trying to see who's side to take.

Unfortunately, they have lots of trouble reading the story they're writing about and deciding whether it's a good thing or bad thing without just going by their feelings for the company they are writing about.

[Maestro @ Mar 26th 2008 1:42PM]

When I signed up for FiOS it was a 2 year contract. So I doubt that you'll be seeing that $75.00 price tag 'forever'. This is a play to grab market share...once the 2 yrs are up you can bet the prices will go up.

[andy @ Mar 26th 2008 1:44PM]

For some reason, I don't think that Verizon is too worried about getting any letters themselves.


Something about a superior product and superior customer service or something?

[Pam @ Mar 26th 2008 1:51PM]

Sounds good until some company decides to switch you without your permission...

In NC my father had this problem where long distance phone companies kept calling his business phone company up and saying he wanted to switch to them now... and then he'd get these outrageous long distance bills, and the local phone company kept saying they couldn't do anything about it. So he'd switch back, and then someone else would call... it was crazy.

[KOM @ Mar 26th 2008 1:59PM]

Comcast can already do this using local number portability.

[jlalicker @ Mar 26th 2008 3:20PM]

I hope that this doesn't go the way of long distance carriers. I used to have a big problem with the carriers calling one another up and switching me without my permission.

[Jason @ Mar 26th 2008 2:00PM]

No one seems to have mentioned the fact that Verizon has been calling people when their number has been requested to be ported to another provider, and offering them incentives to stay with Verizon. We are not talking about you calling Verizon to cancel, but rather them calling you when they receive a port request.

If they want to be able to bypass the cancellation process by the user and let the back end people deal with it, then they should not be permitted to contact the customer to try to convince them to stay... that goes for everyone.. the last thing I need is consistantly being called by Verizon and Comcast asking me to switch around between them all the time (even though I am already a FIOS customer.. I still get pestered by comcast occasionally)

[Phour ZwanZig @ Mar 26th 2008 11:48PM]

Actually Jason, they really arent supposed to be calling ppl who have requested a port. Ive heard of this alot with ppl switching to TWC Digital Phone when it was first launched.. Telcos were using a lot of dirty tricks to toy with the customer thinkin they would effect their outlook of the new service.

[soxsux @ Mar 26th 2008 2:22PM]

You guys miss the point.

Allow me to expose Verizon business practices, from the inside.

If Verizon gets its way, yes, they'll gleefully send out the concellation requests to their competition each time they switch a new customer.
However, they'll just IGNORE requests from other companies and go right on charging the consumer (it's already in the contracts). Ultimately this will lead to "slamming".

The more mucked up the regulation and business practices, the more money they can make.

Did you know they have entire sales campaigns (benefits) for customers that customer service is not allowed to mention? Verizon is more craving for the $$ than Hillary is for votes.

[Brendan @ Mar 26th 2008 2:28PM]

This message was paid for by Time Warner Cable, why didn't adblock plus block this ad?

[Wormhoudt @ Mar 26th 2008 2:32PM]

Did I get a whiff of a Joy Division reference at the end of this post?

[offthegrid @ Mar 26th 2008 3:15PM]

Imagine this article being published without a breath of the blog owners name, Time Warner. Who's doing the whining? If Time Warner was against LNP, I'll eat a bug!

[Anonymoose @ Mar 26th 2008 2:48PM]

for those of you hoping that this will somehow translate to getting rid of ETFs for phones, then i hope you are ok with buying phones for retail price.

[Maztec @ Mar 26th 2008 2:49PM]

Great. I can't wait for some random rep to call, get my answering machine, decide that is a sale, call my cable company, inform them that I cancelled, change my service over, and bill me an exorbitant rate on a bill that doesn't show up for three months because they have a "no bills for three months!" deal.

Won't be the first time that has happened to me. I like being required to cancel for myself.

[umm....hello??? @ Mar 26th 2008 2:52PM]

yeah, this is BAD for consumers. so now someone (not me) could possibly call up Verizon and tell them I want Verizon and not Comcast, and Verizon will just auto-switch on me because Comcast won't be able to verify that I WANT to switch? hello SLAM!

[Alejandro @ Mar 26th 2008 3:23PM]

lamO

[Mike @ Mar 26th 2008 2:56PM]

This isn't exactly unheard of. Doing number porting in cell phones works the same way; customers don't need to call their existing provider to switch. Why all the fuss about it? This isn't that unusual.

[erasure25 @ Mar 26th 2008 4:00PM]

I have Time Warner Cable. Those bastards took over 1 month to get cable TV to my apartment. It would have taken another few weeks to get cable internet. I called Verizon to set up DSL and in a matter of days I was up running. F*ck cable providers.

[John Kievlan @ Mar 26th 2008 4:34PM]

The whole point of considering competition important is that, supposedly, competition forces the prices of goods and services to an equilibrium point that maximizes efficiency and equality in the open market. That principle is a myth in a large number of modern industries, the communications market being one of them. The practice of offering "deals" to people who might switch is of course blatantly anticompetitive and can be easily shown to severely detract from market efficiency and freedom. But then again, a thousand other practices in these industries have precisely the same effect; long-term contracts and early termination fees are another obvious example, and Verizon has no problem with those.

The free market is a joke. The proper question to ask is not, as most people seem to think, "Does the free market work on paper?" but, "Can the free market be purposefully manipulated to make certain powerful parties exempt from the rules?" The answer to the latter question is, "It's so easy we naive free-marketers might as well be hanging our valuables out our windows on threads while we sleep."

So do I agree with Verizon? On general principles, I suppose so; they're right that the practice is anticompetitive. But as long as we pretend that the "free market" makes everything fair, what's the point? What *isn't* anticompetitive, in the modern world?

[RichTampa @ Mar 26th 2008 4:34PM]

i am pretty sure verizon has laid off 90% of there work force so there definitely will not be anyone to read notification about there service being cut off. The ceo might have time while he sits around and counts all the money he made at the expense of his workforce.

[Needlesedge @ Mar 27th 2008 9:13AM]

Oh I love those deals that you get when you call saying you are going to leave a service provider. I got free cable with HBO and Showtime for six months because I said I was going to drop my cable provider.

[Troy @ Mar 26th 2008 6:51PM]

I think the LNP to keep your phone number is a slightly different case because something actually needs to be "transferred" between the 2 carriers. While I'm sure you could still, technically, have some cellphone service without a number, it's at least clear enough for me that you can't really be charged by 2 different companies at the same time because you're either the carrier for my cellphone [number] or you're not. With video, you aren't taking anything with you when you switch so no communication is needed between the 2 providers.

From a consumer ease standpoint, I don't think this is better or worse than it is right now. You're still going to be pestered by the account rep that's going to try and convince you to stay. The only difference is that the "custody" transfer of your cellphone number has to be initiated and so they need to communicate. Not needed for video.