Those darn kids -- they just don't listen! And soon, according to a report, they won't
physically be able to listen. It seems that modern teens, with their cloaking jackets, space telephones, and telepathic headsets fail to obey the simplest tenet of leisure-time music enjoyment: keeping their iPod and Zune volumes at a semi-natural level. In focus-group discussions, researchers found that high school students in the Netherlands were aware of the potential hearing loss which can be caused by high volume listening, yet had no immediate plans to crank their jams at anything but 11. Typical of our misguided youth, the teens feel that they have a "low personal vulnerability" to hearing loss -- researchers also noted that they believed they were bulletproof, could fly, and would never,
ever lose touch with people who signed their yearbook. The study's findings suggest that the answer to this problem may lie with manufacturers of hardware and solutions like volume caps or warning lights, rather than with the self-control of the end user.
posted Mar 27th 2008 8:42AM
Love the Spinal Tap reference...
but it's one louder
ROFL, 11 is only half of the volume on the Zune!
Actually, 11 is 11/20ths of Zune's volume level; an irreducable fraction.
Now, if we could only figure out a way to inhibit their ability to speak...
"Live young, Die hard."
They honestly think that young people care about their body? lol
love your avatar
Best written article of the day award!
Chuckles McGee
if you love his avatar I think you'll find that you love mine.. twice as much.
Whoops make that vdogg89 sorry chuckles.
captain obvious has come to our rescue for only a few million dollars and a "study".
fuckin DUH.
And how is this different from when we were kids?
You'd think the parents of these children would have a little more of a clue. I don't have kids, but most of my contemporaries do, mostly teens. Didn't we learn anything from the Walkmen and ear-slitting concerts in concrete arenas?
Or maybe I'm the only one with a high pitched ringing and a 3dB drop at 1KHz (tested by an audiologist)?
Maybe that's how Steve is keeping us all under his control...
"most of my contemporaries do"
do you not have friends either?
Also, my parents yelled at me to turn my headphones down all the time when I was younger. It didn't matter; I'd leave the room and I would turn it back up. My hearing ability is less than it was, but hell, who cares? Live a little, people. You're not going to hear at all when you're dead!
I'm at the end of my teenage years, I enjoy a very wide range of music, yet I never felt the urge to turn my music up to ridiculous levels. On speakers, maybe for a couple of minutes, never on headphones.
Hopefully, Darwin's theory will get rid of a large swathe of members of "my" generation..
Thinking the same thing, I'm 36, when I was a teen walkmans were hot and they would destroy your hearing, i didn't care.
i have some slight hearing loss already, that, or I'm good at ignoring things.
@Eric
"Or maybe I'm the only one with a high pitched ringing and a 3dB drop at 1KHz (tested by an audiologist)?"
WOO! High pass filter!
Best explanation for the irrational teenage behavior we all know (and perpetrated ourselves as teens) is from signaling theory. The most reliable signals we can send are the ones with the highest cost. If you want to send the message that, say, you have the market cornered on youthfulness, and you want that message to be believed, then you do the things that will cost you that very resource, like listening to music too loud, laying out in the sun, generally being self-destructive.
Screw hearing, what about sanity!?!
"My sons iPod doesn't say anything about potential loss of hearing! I need you, Apple, to pay me $50,000,000 for damages to my sons ears, done without any warning."
Actually, that already happened - the iPod is sold in the US, remember? ;)
That's why every iPod has a volume limiter and yes, a warning about hearing loss included in the docs.
Yep. But three short years ago I was one such teen. Went to many a concert and stood right next to the speakers. Now I have tinnitus and hearing loss. Don't know how I could have been so stupid. Aye, will we ever learn?
yes but i...i...i... was told i could listen to the radio at a reasonable volume from 9 to 11. and and i told lumbergh that if sandra can listen to hear headphones while she's collating then i can listen to my radio at a reasonable volume
/Milton
crap... I hope that doesn't happen to me...
I went to the Smashing Pumpkins concert last night and was sorta close to the speakers (about 5 metres away) and my right ear is still ringing (been almost a day) - I really hope it goes away!
...or maybe I'm, dare I say, OVER-REACTING!?
Even when you demonstrate that sound can be heard just as good with it at medium volume. Nooooooooooo they want it loud.
And then they blame natural sounds for being too quite when its their ears that are messed up.
Ignorance is bliss =/
So teens are stupid....this is news how?
what?
Its called adolescence and growing up. I don't think there is a single teen in the history of this planet who who didn't do something stupid while growing up....hence the reason its called growing up. Sadly unlike a scraped knee or a broken bone to learn a lesson loosing your hearing isn't something that can just be fixed.
What?
"The study's findings suggest that the answer to this problem may lie with manufacturers of hardware and solutions like volume caps or warning lights, rather than with the self-control of the end user"
Oh yes. Because of course it's the responsibility of everyone else to protect people from the evil of Personal Responsibility
Agreed, it's insane we spend so much time and energy fighting Darwinism.
I want to agree and say 'let them go deaf, who cares' but I'm already going nuts from the noise in this city and the screaming people do in cellphones, so I'm not looking forward to more and more of that because everybody went half-deaf.
Not to mention that you have to communicate with them too.
I think the higher levels of sound players are capable of are for the weaker speakers, like the ones in old car stereos. i always listen to my zune at a max of level 4 when wearing headphones to prevent tinnitus, and im 16.
PS- My uncle has invested heavily in hearing aid companies. He is convinced that there is a shit load of money to be made there when these kids get older and they can't hear for shit.
No thanks, I'll learn ASL and help fund the interpreting profession.
Isn't he worried that 40 or so years from now when these teens get to that age, there will be a surgical procedure for improving hearing?
The majority of Engadget readers these days seem to be iPhone loving teens without any knowledge of technology at all.
How will this article wash with Engadget's core readers?
Bring back the pre-AOL days when Engadget had proper articles with good old fashioned technology reports.
Alright, grandpa, time for your morphine drip. Get back in bed!
There is an operation now, and they won't do it except for total hearing loss. The ear is a tricky, tricky thing, actually it is harder to mess with than the eyes.
I am 40 and I wear two hearing aides. Invest in oticon. I want to get those bluetooth fellas.
Did you just reference the AOL day in a positive tone non-sarcastically? I think there's a law against that somewhere...
on the bright side, those of us who did and do care about our hearing will get to feel like superheroes later in life.
Enjoy that. In the meantime, I'll be off making love to a woman.
Additionally: "Seconded. People think that there's some kind of bonus in the afterlife for having full hearing ability. It's the same with drinking and the occasional cigar (and what about those people who practice abstinence? HAH!); enjoy it while you're still here!"
I'm not hellbent on "using up" my body while I still can, but I still enjoy my sensations. Additionally, not all people believe that the height of one's experience lies in bedding people. (Both puns were unintended. :P )
If it's too loud you're too old!
odd such kind on an article is posted on this tech blog :) seems off topic is all :)
Why the hell is hearing loss cause by the cranking of music coming from electronic devices off topic in a gadget blog??
huh. So we're all stupid. Thanks.
but no, this is a serious issue. we just knew that already.
But then what about those shops that play a loud continuous sound at pitches that adults can't hear, to stop teenagers loitering outside the shop? surely they're damaging the teenagers ears every time they walk past
Things might be better if the likes of Apple provided decent earphones with their products. Apple's earbuds are useless - more sound goes out of the casing than into the ear canal.
When I bought some Sennheiser CX300s, I used the volume limit on my iPod for fear of inadvertently deafening myself! The battery lasts longer too.
Still, like others send, this is just common sense.
Presumably the same damage (if any) is also being done to adult ears because just cos they can't hear it doesnt mean it's not there.
It's like the old tree falling in a forest, does it make a sound?
They will when they go def. But then it will be too late. You could relate it to smokers who don't care about their lungs until they have to carry around oxygen tanks to survive.
but can they play doom?
Needless to say, you are a douche..
How soon before this idiot gets banned?
Little bastards.
by the way in a press release Apple have said that they will not have a printed warning on the packaging about hearing loss as the .003cents it would take per box is to great a cost, so they throw it in the same basket as decent earphones, wall charger, and everything else they dont give you. instead it will be available as a subscription based podcast for an upfront fee of 29.95
greedy bastards, lower the price of the ipod touch. i could have an xbox controllers and games forless and a 32gb ipod touch... be real apple!
I'm a grown man and I don't care about my hearing.
Seconded. People think that there's some kind of bonus in the afterlife for having full hearing ability. It's the same with drinking and the occasional cigar (and what about those people who practice abstinence? HAH!); enjoy it while you're still here!
of course theres a bonus, you get a 60X multiplier and 50,000 bonus points. that way, you can get on the high score list and list your name as ass or the like.
Researchers and modern studies should be taken with a grain of salt. Most of the time studies are being funded by special interest groups that have a vested interest in the outcome of the study. A lot of studies rely on psychology and psychiatry for intterpretation of the results, which is a completely non-scientific way of interpreting the factors involved in the study.
To be honest, if I had some way of knowing what was actually harming my hearing, I'd turn it down.
But how am I supposed to know that having my volume at a certain level will kill my ears? I mean, (on a ZenStone Plus, goes up to 25) does having it at 10 hurt my ears? If so, I may as well just return it, because if I'm walking to school or sitting on a bus/plane/waiting room etc., I can't hear anything under about 17-18 with a normal pair of earphones.
Thankfully, I got my new EP-630s, which are awesome, and now I can hear my music around 12 walking to school, but I still need some warning for what could be ruining my hearing. All the information booklet said was "WARNING: Turning up the volume too high could result in hearing damage".
What counts as 'too high'? And more importantly, 'too' meaning 'excessively', why do they even include it?
I agree that they should have some sort of measurement for this, unfortunately the volume levels of your music files are often not all the same, and damage to your ears depends on how long you are listening at a certain volume. They're probably worried that if they provide a number they'll get sued when someone does have hearing loss and they say, "I was just playing it at 15, which is where you said it was safe".
One thing you can do is try to notice whether you're ears hurt, or there is ringing after you've been listening to music for a while. If this is the case, you've probably been listening too loud/too long.
There actually are recommendations for volume levels that I've read before, which is what caused me to stop cranking my ipod on the subway.
The rule of thumb that I've read is that ~50-60% of the max volume is safe. Obviously this is not an exact science, since players vary in power output, and some headphones are louder than others. But GENERALLY speaking this should be an acceptable level unless your mp3 player manufacturer is totally insane.
I can't remember how many times I've accidentally sent the stupid volume to max on my old nano though, while actually trying to skip through a file. *sigh* That said, prolonged exposure is the real problem so hopefully I haven't wrecked my hearing too much. Thankfully they added that volume limiter setting later on so I could no longer accidentally blast my eardrums at max.
Sometimes riding the subway you see these idiots with the stock ipod earbuds using their ipods at max volume to overcome the noise of the subway, and it's just unbelievably obvious that they're killing their hearing. *sigh* The EP-630 is a good start since it'll let you use lower volumes compared to the stock earbuds.
Please do not sue me if running your mp3 player at 50-60% volume kills your hearing though, just relaying what I've read.
Newsflash! Teenagers thing they are invulnerable!Film at 11!
well im not suprised really. all the ppl who are worried (or just want better sound quality) drop their crappy ipod earphones right after unpacking and pick up a pair of in-ear plugs/sound isolating headphones.
its their hearing so really, if they wanna kill whilst listening to crappy sound quality, be my guest. just dont make me listen to your noise and ill be happy.
sorry if my comment offended anyone btw. i neither side with zune or ipod FYI.
I'm 15 and I (almost - every once and awhile when we're on the highway on a roadtrip) never listen to my ipod over halfway. All my friends say I'm "crazy" for doing so. I have really good hearing right now and I want to keep it that way. Oh well. But please don't just assume that ALL of us don't care about our hearing. Thanks.
I agree.
Same here.
I'm 15 and I have my music at a moderate level.
When I plugged my iPod headphones into my iMac (- that probably explains a lot, thanks to ANOTHER recent "study" :P), I had to have the volume on the lowest it could go before mute (by pressing Option+Shift+Volume) because anything louder was uncomfortable. And even that volume was slightly painful.
I really don't want to ruin my hearing. Not only because the field I want to go into in the future pretty much needs good hearing (Media or Music) but because I like hearing things. Same with vision but I can always get glasses, whereas a hearing aid is "uncool".
Call me a kill joy but I don't care. I'd rather wear ear-plugs at a gig and not come home deaf than damage my hearing.
*Sigh* some kids just don't care...
"The study's findings suggest that the answer to this problem may lie with manufacturers of hardware and solutions like volume caps or warning lights, rather than with the self-control of the end user."
The wonderful thing about our society (I'm not being sarcastic) is that people are free to make poor decisions, even if those decisions are obviously harmful to the person: people can choose to smoke; people can choose to listen to music loudly; and people (though they haven't covered it in psychology class) can even choose to watch Fox news. I think this freedom is a quality of a mature, respectful society....That's why I get angry when my Creative Zen hardly gets loud at all, or when volume caps for similar devices are proposed. If you want to blast your ears with death metal, who are we to stop you?
While I certainly agree that adults should be less idiotic, you can't really expect kids to have a full blown sense of personal responsibility. Yes their parents really hold the responsibility here, but if their parents aren't doing their jobs it's not entirely fair to the kids who don't know, etc.
Of course the teens that do know are being idiots, but seriously no 13 year old really has a great sense of personal responsibility.
You might as well expect them to provide full income for their rent/food/tuition at 13. Come on, man.
And honestly even if their parents tell them not to crank it, I'd suspect that most "rebellious" teens wouldn't give a d*mn. So similarly to how you don't let 13 year olds drive cars (because they would likely kill themselves) it's acceptable to set volume limits so that kids don't blow their eardrums out.
@tekdemon
"So similarly to how you don't let 13 year olds drive cars (because they would likely kill themselves)..."
I don't want 13 year olds to drive cars not because they would kill themselves, but because they would likely kill others.
"You might as well expect them to provide full income for their rent/food/tuition at 13. Come on, man."
What? Who's saying that?
"And honestly even if their parents tell them not to crank it, I'd suspect that most "rebellious" teens wouldn't give a d*mn."
I would agree that the kid's parents should be the ones to teach their kids what constitutes safe and unsafe behavior, yet part of growing up is learning for yourself what advice you're going to listen to and which you're going to rebel against. I don't think the danger here is so great that restrictions be placed on digital devices; after all, there are plenty of legitimate situations in which you need very high volume (my mp3 player is too quiet for my convertible's stereo, for example).
@tekdemon
"Yes their parents really hold the responsibility here, but if their parents aren't doing their jobs it's not entirely fair to the kids who don't know, etc."
That's a good point, but perhaps there's a way to teach those kids without mandating usability and freedom-confining limits on these devices. Should the quality of the product suffer (and it does, in my opinion) to protect these people?
Generally, I agree. As so long as
1) you understand the potential ramnifications of your decision,
2) don't become a "victim" and sue the company because they didn't protect you, and
3) don't claim that somehow society should pay to treat the condition caused by your crummy decision making...
From the tone of your post, I suspect that you'd fall into #1 - which is the cool "you know the risks, accept the outcome, and nobody else gets hurt" approach.
The problem is that lots of people want to be wild and crazy 'cuz they think its cool - and then expect to get bailed out when something *bad* happens to them.
And unfortunately, there are more of them than there are of you - and they all seem to have attorneys...
Judging by the picture they already lost their fashion sense so why not add an extra bonus, right?
Is it just me, or is the boy on the left wearing capri pants?
He also seems to be wearing his dad's shirt.
Guess who gets the hand-me-downs? He does!
I fucking do. My ipod is always at 1/4 volume. I find it incredible that people can walk around with the volume so far up that any observer can hear it from a couple of metres away, but such is life I suppose.
So, I listen to my Zune at usually between 8-10 out of 20. Am I pushing it?
I have constant 24/7 ringing in both ears from being an idiot teen blasting the headphones. I'm so used to it that I actually don't even notice it anymore.
This hot chick in the commuter train always has her IPOD on full blast!! It's so loud that if i'm sitting 2 rows away from her, i can still hear the lyrics of the song she's listening to, "...you are beautiful, no matter what they say, words won't bring me downnnnn..."
She's hot, but annoys me to the max!! It's called a PERSONAL music player!!!
Rofl!
Tip: Don't date her.
Boy does this make me happy to be 20.
Im all about listening to loud music but not with headphones or ear buds and not for an extended period of time. The worst is when I get on a city bus and I can hear someone else's music over the engine.
iPods and Phones also have a personal invulnerability force field around them that protects you if you walk out into the road in front of a car. Or so I gather from watching people.
Shoot, all we had when we were kids were big ol' Pioneer speakers (in attractive Oak veneer no less) with 15" woofers in them. So to get the best "experience", we's lay a pillow down on the floor, then put the speakers on either side facing each other, lay our wee heads gently on the pillow of rock, and crank up the stereo!!!!
To the ones that have posted saying their new high end plugs saves their hearing just because it'll allow them to be playing at a lower volume setting, you are fooling yourselves. It just means your plugs have a lower sensitivity, allowing them to produce the same dB at a lower mW output.
While that may be true, there could be other reasons. They could be
noise canceling head phones, or they could be better at insulating
sound. OR they could be better at channeling sound into the ear
channel.
Love the real-life George Michael all the way on the left.
Speaking as someone with diminished hearing and tinnitus (in a car accident as a child; our car (ironically) was struck by a school bus), I say to those with normal hearing and no ringing of the ear: You do not know what it like to live like this. Take better care of your hearing. Your parents aren't complete morons, at least about this, eh?
This is the 2000's, parents don't give a rat's ass about their kids activities past age 7 so there is no 'listen to your parents' involved.
Whats a zune?
/s
Eh, I'm only 20 and I have to wear earplugs at concerts at this point or else it's an entirely unpleasant experience for the next week while I recover.
My recovery time gets longer and longer, I keep wondering how long until my normal hearing never comes back after a show.
Volume caps would be a real pain though... I do drumming and often use my iPod plugged into soundproof headphones. If the iPod were quiter then I wouldn't be able to hear as the amps in the headphones suck and I don't plan on using a mixer desk to boost the signal!
Maybe we could solve this problem by getting these same teens who believe they are bullet-proof to put this ill-held belief to the test?
Youtube the results perhaps?
Keep it up folks! This world needs more deaf people! You get the benefit of increased eyesight capabilities, better visual-spatial processing, and better hand-eye coordination. You would become better drivers and better athletes! When you finally lose all your hearing, please learn ASL - it is by far the best language in the world. Why? You can sign to someone more than 200 feet away especially with your newly-developed acute eyesight! You can communicate in noisy situations with ease! Your IQ increases a few points with this because of the change in brain processing of language! Dudes, come and join the prestigious deaf community! On a side note, once you lose all your hearing and join the deaf community, you'll eventually understand why we say music is overrated.
I'd like to say that I am also a teen (17) and I know that there is consequences for listening to my MP3 player on full blast, so I don't do it! Unfortunately, not everyone in my age group is so privileged. When I wall through my high school, the high pitched sounds carry across entire hallways, and one kid in particular I can hear from several hundred feet away (but he's weird, he walks around with a giant hiking backpack and wears red all the time... Not sure that can be helped).
My point is, not all teens are foolish enough to destroy their hearing before they're 30.
seconded (16)
Don't worry so much Blaktornado, you don't need any hearing to make it in music, in fact less is probably more.
I can fly
Gratz.
I'm 15 and I've never listened music in high-volumes while I use headphones. First because I have headache when I listen musics in high-volumes and, second, because I care about my audition. If every teenagers really know about the consequences I beat they'd listen in low-volumes their musics...
Could they have picked a group of dorkier looking kids for this photo?
Yes.