Sony's HDR-SR12 1080/60 camcorder gets reviewed

Sony launched the hot little HDR-SR12 HD camcorder in a overwhelming barrage of new models at CES, so it hasn't really gotten the love it deserves, but the crew over at CamcorderInfo recently took one for a spin and found that while the $1399 cam isn't the cheapest option out there, it's still a strong competitor to popular options like the Canon HF100. Although the video bitrate is a bit lower than the Canon at 16Mbps, image quality was overall comparable due to the Bionz image processor and Exmor CMOS sensor, which is the same chip found in Sony's Alpha DSLRs, and it's got the most storage available at 120GB. The only other potential dealbreaker is the fixed 60i framerate, but if shooting in 30p or 24p isn't important to you, the HDR-SR12 looks like it's worth a spot on your list.

[bri3d @ Mar 31st 2008 9:01PM]

... Wait, 1080p + 60i only = 1080i, right?
How is the camera 1080p if the only recording it will do is... interlaced?

[Mtirv @ Mar 31st 2008 9:06PM]

It also does progressive, but only on 24 or 30 fps.

[bri3d @ Mar 31st 2008 9:08PM]

"The only other potential dealbreaker is the fixed 60i framerate, but if shooting in 30p or 24p isn't important to you"
The article is worded wrongly then; "if shooting in 30p or 24p isn't important to you" makes it sound as though the camera is literally fixed at 60i, not simply lacking 60p.

[Mtirv @ Mar 31st 2008 9:10PM]

Yeah, the article is worded badly, but the review at the read link says "Canon’s inclusion of multiple frame rates (60i/24P/30P) makes it a tempting offering."

[tsamb @ Apr 1st 2008 5:49AM]

@Mtirv

That quote is comparing this camera to the comparable Canon model and saying that *the Canon* is tempting over the Sony because the Canon does 24p/30p. As this article says, the Sony is locked in at 60i.

[Z @ Mar 31st 2008 9:14PM]

that looks nice and slick....and, seeing from the review....pretty decent..i need a new camcorder, maybe i'll take a look at this

[LiQuiD_FuSioN @ Mar 31st 2008 9:23PM]

I'd love to invest in something like this.

It also makes me think about the movie Cloverfield and the aspect of having a durable, high-quality camera with you to record your experiences. My mobile camera can only do so much!

[Reader @ Mar 31st 2008 9:37PM]

I hope you're lucky enough to get attacked by aliens! Oh wait...

[nikster @ Mar 31st 2008 9:24PM]

What I don't understand about HD digi cams: Why use crap AVCHD? Why is the bitrate way lower than the oooooold HD DV? This is a serious question, not a criticism, so if anyone knows, please respond.

Bragging about high resolution (HDTV!) while simultaneously turning up the compression like crazy doesn't make a lot of sense to me. High resolution so you can see all the artifacts? The best image quality right now seems to be with DV tape cameras which seems terribly backwards to me.

[ocdude @ Mar 31st 2008 9:48PM]

It probably mostly has to do with the media they are storing on to. AVCHD is getting better, though. Keep in mind this type of camera's target audience: those with money to blow on a camera they can record their baby's first steps with.

[LondonConsultant @ Mar 31st 2008 10:24PM]

AVCHD is a good format, but the encoders have been crap. More recent camcorders (such as Canon HF10) have much better encoders. It's taking time for the encoding algorithms to improve enough to show off the format.

AVCHD can potentially provide the same quality as HDV, but in a lower bit rate. I suspect that well-encoded 20 Mpbs AVCHD could be equivalent to 25Mbps HDV. Expect AVCHD quality to surpass HDV within a year...

[vudean @ Apr 1st 2008 9:53AM]

ocdude - you nailed me! I just picked one of these up (my wife is pregnant)... actually, the less expensive SR11 which is identical except only has 60GB of storage but you can add storage via memory stick like this one if you want... i guess since I didn't have as much "money to blow."
Its a great camera and so far its shot some great video. I even found a cheap mini-hdmi cable, the only problem I'm having is trying to find a case that fits it well along with the case.
Battery life is a bit short, but mayeb I'll get the bigger battery and an extra (smaller) charger.

[Peter Kuhlmann @ May 4th 2008 12:55AM]

nikster:
I agree. It seems to be going backwards. From what I've read, the only plus to AVCHD is a camera can record to solidstate memory or a harddrive.

I have a question for you though. Is the quality really degraded that much? I need to buy a video camera in the next week or two (having a baby).

What is really the best camera out there for under $1500. So far I've found:
SONY = lower on image quality - high on features ie: nightvision etc
CANON = higher image quality - very few features.

I've also found that the Manufacturers and reseller websites often contradict on specs.

One more question if you know how to answer it:
The CANON HF-100 or HF-10 or HG-10 seems like a pretty good camera as they all can record to 1080/24p. They all use AVCHD compression. The baffling thing is, The wiki site says this format can not handle 1080/24p. So why bother paying extra for the 1080/24p when the compression can not accept it? Am I missing something?

I really wish it were alot more simple. How hard can it be to make a good 1080/24p/30p/60p/60i camera with a big hardrive and a good compression format.

[Sam Zebian @ Mar 31st 2008 9:25PM]

I have been looking at this camera for almost a month now, and I really want to get it, but it's price tag is insanely high (not really, but for me it is. I could get a nice laptop with that much money)

[Hotrod @ Mar 31st 2008 9:45PM]

If you want something, get it bro. Money comes and goes, and I bet your bosses and co-workers haven't showed you any appreciation for your hard work, so go out and show yourself some appreciation.

Honestly this is terrible advice, but I've been this way for a long time, and I have zero regrets, (and I somehow manage to pay my bills). The way I see it, we spend most of our cash on ordering food anyway.

[Sam Zebian @ Mar 31st 2008 10:12PM]

Boss and coworkers... Try Teachers and Peers... I'm still in high school, I won't be able to afford this until I get a decent job.

[Hammond X @ Mar 31st 2008 11:41PM]

@Hotrod: "The way I see it, we spend most of our cash on ordering food anyway." It must be nice. I'll bet you're related to an 18th century French queen, and most of the food you order is cake.

[Mehul @ Mar 31st 2008 9:40PM]

I'm not a big fan of hard drives in portable devices. My 30GB ipod just had a hard drive crash without me dropping it even once.
That being said, if I were in the market for a HD camcorder, Canon HF10 would be it.

[Walt @ Mar 31st 2008 11:17PM]

If you're getting the sad face on your iPod, you might try the bump trick. A few sites describe briskly thumping the sides of your ipod on a mouse pad to cure the sad face. I have been skeptical for many months, until a friend approached me with his "sad face" 5G iPod saying that Apple wanted to charge him $130 to diagnose/repair. I took it from his hand, thumped it on the mousepad, and it just started working fine again. I tried to contain my amazement and remain nonchalant. It might help to run a "chkdsk /R /F" type program on the iPod in disk mode afterwards if it works (sorry to not know the mac equivalent).

I think more devices should sense the frustration levels of their users by behaving better if slammed, smashed, or thrown. Now if only Apple made elevator buttons...

[Mehul @ Apr 1st 2008 12:11AM]

Thanks but I had a Best Buy warranty so I just got a new one.

[required @ Mar 31st 2008 9:51PM]

I prefer the Xacti form factor Sanyo has.

[Jesse S @ Mar 31st 2008 9:54PM]

HDD camera = crappy picture quality.

If only us normal people could afford the RED ONE setup...

[LondonConsultant @ Mar 31st 2008 10:33PM]

Sorry, but that makes as much sense as saying HDD computer = crappy spreadsheet quality.

[Jesse S @ Apr 1st 2008 12:00AM]

The issue is that HDD's and SD cards and etc. aren't as fast as/don't have as much bandwidth as (I honestly forget which) MiniDV, thus the video has to be compressed more to write as much/as quickly, so the video quality is worse.

[LondonConsultant @ Apr 1st 2008 10:45AM]

Sorry, but that is completely wrong. The bitrate for all HDDs is far far in excess of DV/HDV! And as for flash, check out the Sony PMW-EX1 as just one example (it records to flash at a bitrate 50% higher than DV/HDV).

Your argument is like observing some silver-cased camcorders have low bitrate video and then concluding that silver-cased camcorders can never have high bitrate video because of their case colour.

[Jesse S @ Apr 1st 2008 12:44PM]

Don't get me started on HDV.

[Anthony @ Mar 31st 2008 10:22PM]

I'll never go back to full size after the SD100 from Panasonic. It works perfectly for what I do. Hell, I use my N95 more then even the SD.

[Zorin @ Mar 31st 2008 11:51PM]

Why are new cameras STILL coming out that have interlaced modes?

Nearly all HD displays these days are progressive, and interlaced signals look like *ASS* on them.

I read the spec sheets of these new cameras with anticipation, but it's all the same lame 60i garbage.

I want to see something affordable that does 24p and 30p and doesn't do stupid things like cramming 24p into a 60i video stream, which requires annoying conversion.

[Mehul @ Apr 1st 2008 12:14AM]

I'm not too knowledgeable on camcorders but doesn't the Canon HF10 do 24p and 30p?
http://www.engadget.com/tag/HF100/

[Willen @ Apr 1st 2008 4:52AM]

Any decent progressive display worth its salt should be able to properly de-interlace 1080i (and 480i) footage. Walk into your neighborhood Best Buy or Circuit City and look at the TVs they have on display with a HD signal. With the exception of a few sets that have a Blu-ray Disc player hooked up with HDMI, the majority of them are being fed a 1080/60i HD feed from some sort of HD generator via component video. With the exception of some horizontal panning shots, most people would be hard pressed to pick out a 1080p source from a 1080i source.

I'd also like to point out some errors in your description of the SR12's chip. Although similar to the Alpha's Exmor sensor (which was misspelled as Exmos)in that they are both CMOS chips and use similar underlying technologies, Sony's video camcorders use what they call a ClearVid CMOS sensor as described here: http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/1138169251.html that use a pixel array that is rotated 45 degrees from traditional sensors. The Exmor sensors still use the traditional Bayer-pattern color filter array.

[vudean @ Apr 1st 2008 9:53AM]

As I mentioned before, I just picked this up, but something that no one has mentioned is the size of the screen.
Its 3.2" a .5" bigger than almost any camera on the market and for once, the touchscreen is actually easy to use (unlike from what I heard about Sony's first touchscreen UIs)
If you're using this camera and being forced to stare at a screen instead of actually enjoying whats going on, you might as well do it on the biggest and best possible screen... and I think this one has it.

[Peter K @ Apr 21st 2008 3:00PM]

ALot of SONY gear is being pawned at Futureshop as FULL HD when in fact most of it is only 1080i.
Buyer Beware! The misdirection and confusion generated by the industry is unconscionable.

How hard can it be to package up a true 1980x1080P (24p/30p/60p) camera with solid state memory and swapable non-propriatory lenses? 3 very simple specs.

So many cameras have amazing features, but lack at least one of the above. The lens manufacturers should lobby the big camera comppanies for such a product. I know I would pay alot more for a camera with swapable lenses than for a fixed lens unit.

[Tony Ellwood @ Apr 26th 2008 4:54AM]

Hi,
If anyone is looking for HDR-SR12e in the UK please see my auciton on eBay. I need to sell my brand new SR12 as I want to purchase a different model - I'm selling for £779.99 and it's still BNIB with Sony seal, it's also a UK model

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sony-HDR-SR12E-Handycam-Camcorder-PAL-Version_W0QQitemZ330230873208QQihZ014QQcategoryZ11724QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Genuine sale - great chance to pick up a bargain

[keithbenefit @ Apr 30th 2008 2:32PM]

hi, i would like to buy the best camcorder in the market at the moment. Money and taking pictures is not important for me. I want the best one for Sharpness , and resolution. i read that 1080p is better than 1080i . plus some have a faster lense or bigger that might help. some stuck on 10x optical and occasionally 12x .
please suggest me th best one for clarity .
OUT of all brands i found the latest models from sony , Jvc , panasonic and canon.
please help me.

[ph_redux @ May 17th 2008 8:23PM]

I currently have a Canon HV20, largely due to the good reviews and feedback at camcorderinfo.com. Canon has released a HV30 that added 30p video mode.

I am also looking for a new camcorder. One that shoots/captures full 1920x1080 HD to Hard Drive and/or Cards for under $2K.

CCI states that Pros/Hobbyists will find the "motion trailing" a "major deterrent" with the AVCHD format camcorders. I am planning on staying away from AVCHD camcorders because of the issues with handling motion and high computer processor demands.

The local American electronics store is stocking the new camcorders, so I was able to try some of them. All the new HD camcorders looked great on their small lcd screens. I plan on bringing my own memory card, so I can do some comparisons at home.

The store had the new Samsung HMX20 which shots full HD in 1080 60i/30p and SD 480 60p plus high speed SD video at 300 FPS, which was neat. Not sure which compression format the Samsung uses - it records to SDHC card.

The JVC HD6 looks like a good option also. It is more expensive, but then it has a 120GB hard drive and better manual controls, OIS and improved audio features.

Even though it's a digital camera, the Casio high speed camera is a possible choice. It shots photos, HD video and slow motion - all in one camera.

[cory @ Jun 18th 2008 7:02PM]

is the best buy warranty of 4 years for $299.99 cdn worth it. hmm what do u think

[abe030 @ Jun 18th 2008 12:42PM]

The warranty definitely ISN'T worth it. It specifically doesn't cover drops - if you go to sony US, you can get a 4 yr warranty that covers everything - including drops. Sony Canada shafts us once again. More money for the same product and no comparable warranty. Actually it probably isn't Sony.ca but rather the crappy Canadian insurance companies that won't consider such a warranty. Anyway I digress...

Either skip it or go with a pure solid state device like the Canon HF10 or HF100.

FYI - I do have the SR12 I got from Futureshop...but I'm on the fence as to whether to keep it or return it. Its great....but the Canon is smaller, no doubt more reliable and cheaper. The Sony has a better sensor, viewfinder, larger capacity and the uber-cool super slow mo feature. The sensor diff is probably techno-marketing garbage as most humans agree that both cams look great.