Xbox 360 with Blu-ray to spark price war with Sony PS3?
By Thomas Ricker 
posted April 2nd 2008 4:23AM
posted April 2nd 2008 4:23AM
DigiTimes is feeling pretty confident about the rumors they started yesterday regarding the Xbox 360 with integrated Blu-ray. They are so confident that they're predicting a price war as Microsoft takes on Sony's PS3 at its own game. Their sources claim that the Blu-ray Disc drive will cost Microsoft between $95 and $100 -- much higher than the $18 to $20 DVD drives already found in the Xbox 360. Microsoft is of course, expected to sell its new Blu-ray rig at a loss as is customary in the console market. Sony may then be forced to lower the cost of the PS3 and/or retaliate by increasing Lite-On's cost for the Blu-ray components (like the BD-ROM pick-up heads) purchased from Sony. Whatever the result, the competition would be nothing but good news for consumers of HD media... you know, if the rumor is true.
Zeus.:God
PC game companies have been running game servers for over a decade without charging the consumer and making a profit. On a per person basis, it's not that expensive. Certainly not $5/month expensive (as with Live)
Your point is weak at best. Plenty of PC game companies do charge the consumer. Take WoW for example @ $15 a mth. It all depends on the platform you're talking about.
This is simple- people will pay more for an online experience that differentiates itself from others, hence the reason why people willingly pay for XBL when they could play on PS3's network for free.
And not to let facts get in the way, but who is spending $5 / mth on XBL? It's $4 or less depending on where you buy it.
Heh, interesting level of apologetics you got going on there. What exactly are you getting for that charge? That's a real question. For any game that available on the 360 and the PC side, you are LOSING ability and being charged for it. Can't download user created maps. Can't run modded servers. Can't run dedicated Clan servers. Timely bug fixes, nope, need MS's approval first, which can take up to two weeks. Unlike on the PC and PSN, most games don't even have dedicated servers on Live, it relies almost exclusively on client side hosting. Case in point, TF2. I own, strangely enough, TF2 on both the 360 and PS3. The 360 version has exactly zero dedicated servers, the PS3 version has an plethora of dedicated servers. The 360 version stutters so bad during online play, it's unplayable until you are lucky enough to find the right server, which may or may not happen. The PS3 version is a 1000 fold better and is easily playable.
You're not even getting a guaranteed uptime, as shown in December.
Gary, how wrong you are... The game companies that DO provide servers for their PC games CHARGE for it. Most PC game companies don't host their own servers, however- that is up to the players, and if you ever played a PC game, you would likely realize that the servers are hosted by the players and clans who donate money every month to keep that server up and running.
I don't get how you say that you are losing abilities with games that are on the 360 and the PC... If you are talking about Gears of War for the PC and such- it isn't that bad, and unless you have played them (as I have) then you don't have any room to talk.
Xbox LIVE is laggy? Its unplayable? REALLY?! I used to play (cut back on my "gaming") my Xbox on a near daily basis in Gears of War, Call of Duty 2 and 4, Halo 3, and others- the Peer2Peer networking they have going, while not the greatest, is far from horrible, and really DOES compete with PSN, even with it's dedicated servers. XBL still remains on top and will because of it's unified nature with menus and such- tell me, can you guys even receive messages in game yet? Do you guys have voice chat functionality in all games? In terms of quality, XBL is leaps and bounds ahead of PSN, and the connectivity and online play is VERY good, especially considering its P2P setup. Hell, I would go as far to say I get more lag, on average, in many dedicated BF2 and CS:S servers.
Honestly, you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Wow. So, you're telling me that COD4 on PC charges to play? The game tracking server has 100% free access, so is voice. That would be news to a lot of people who play it on a daily basis.
As far as dedicated servers go, it's completely up to the company. Some companies are better than others. Some companies dedicated servers might as well be turned off. None of them take a loss on it, since it's built into the price of the game, none of them charge for it.
The only platform that charges for online gaming is the 360. I'm still completely mixed up on what you're paying for. Game servers? Voice? I just don't know. Regardless, the claim that Sony is somehow losing a lot of money on it's gaming network is just plain wrong. These kinds of things have been run at no charge for over a decade. Millions of people have played using this model. Thousands of games have used this model. These companies aren't going out of business and making a profit.
And, yes, I spent over a year on Live. It sucks. What happens when somebody presses standby on their modem in Gears of War? Oh, that's right, EVERYBODY stops playing immediately until they reconnect, preventing them from getting a boot to their head. What happens when somebody lags terribly on Live? Oh, that's right EVERYBODY starts lagging. "Who's lagging" is said over the headset and people start disconnecting. I've NEVER seen either one of those concepts on PC or PSN. NEVER. There is something fundamentally wrong with the networking code for the 360, since the "standby" trick and the "one person lags everyone goes down" problem is systematic from game to game.
Really- so Sony's servers and all their bandwidth is free for them? They don't have to pay maintenance crews to take care of them and they don't have to purchase bandwidth? Wow- I didn't know people could get that for free... They ARE paying for those maintenance crews and the bandwidth they used, not to mention all the hardware included with those servers- bandwidth alone is far from cheap, and Sony doesn't make near enough money off of the PS3 (no matter how many they sold) or their games and accessories to cover that so their game division has been losing money. Whether or not the PS3 itself has become profitable, that division is losing money for all the servers and such, which is likely why they have signed an agreement with Google and in-game advertising for Home.
Dedicated game servers, for nearly all PC games (only a few have their servers hosted by the company- WoW), the dedicated servers that you play on are rented/paid for by those who play the game. For example, VALVe doesn't pay for any servers (expect for download servers for STEAM) that people play on in Counter-Strike: Source, Team Fortress 2, Day of Defeat: Source, Half-Life 2, or anything. Call of Duty 4's (or any of them, for that matter) PC servers are paid for by those who play and donate to keep them up; Unreal Tournament 3's servers are paid for by the clans and players who rent them and pay a monthly charge to keep them up and to pay for bandwidth; damn near all PC games have their game servers paid for by the people who play them and hardly any of them are hosted by the company who made the game (GameServers.com, Hypernia, etc are popular game server hosts).
For Xbox LIVE Gold, the one you pay for, you are paying for the online play for the most part, not to mention you're paying for the maintenance and such for their download servers, along with the quality control for downloadable content, updates, and so on. Xbox LIVE, as it stands, is far better than PSN, and the only hope to change that is Home... However, like LIVE, eventually, I'd be willing to wager that you will have to pay for PSN/Home.
Standby on their modem? Do you know how few people actually do that in Gears of War? Do you know it has to be the HOST that uses standby in order for it to do anything? If some random player does that, all they will do is lag themselves out of the match. If someone is lagging, it doesn't affect all the other players- the only person that can affect others in that way is the host. When a player starts lagging, it makes it slightly harder to kill them, and leads to some bullshit, but not many people have that issue. I doubt you have played LIVE for a sufficient amount of time in order to try and judge it like so.
Xbox LIVE uses a P2P network setup, as in the game is hosted on the players Xbox; taking that into consideration, you would realize how greatly Microsoft has done with that setup- but then again, you don't really have any experience with LIVE or any type of PC gaming, as shown by your ignorance throughout that post of yours.
Gears of War: 1. You don't have to be host and 2. Enough people did it that I stopped playing on servers where I couldn't boot them.
You completely skipped over the valid observation that one lagger can bring the whole game down on Live.
You have failed to address the "Sony is losing a ton of money on PSN" statement. Here are more facts. PS2 had free online play, it made a profit. The entire PC industry has free online play (with the exception of MMORPG), they make a profit. Nintendo has free online play (so far), they make a huge profit. Microsoft charges for online play, so far they have lost over 10 billion dollars on the XBOX line. The free model WORKS, has always worked and will continue to work.
When most people talk about Live, they talk about the "value" they get for a paid for service. I can find no such value. It's just like all the other free online services, with less features, except that you pay. When you pay for XBOX live, you are paying for something that's built into the cost of the game on all other platforms. In essence, you're being ripped off. If you're okay with that, cool, more power to you. There's no reason to believe that the model of online play that has functioned for over a decade will suddenly fail, merely because it's Sony that's doing it.
Oh, and the TF2 dedicated servers on PSN are run by EA, not people on PSN. The dedicated servers for UT3 on PSN are run by Midway (the publisher), though you can if you want run a dedicated server yourself, the PS3 runs cool enough to do that. Come to think of it, the only online game on PSN that I've played that doesn't have them is COD4.
My comment that TF2 is unplayable on 360 due to lag is true, try it sometime, it sucks. It's also a fact that it's VERY playable on the PS3, because of the dedicated servers.
You can discount all the extra value I'm getting in a free service all you want, downplay them, show how it "really doesn't mean much" or what not, when it comes to it, YOU'RE getting ripped off with XBOX Live and I'm not.
Gary and Peptic, you guys have both missed the points and, apparently have proceeded to spew shit all over the place.
Not much of what you guys have said is true, and for the record, XBL is far from a "rip-off". Maybe you're just mad your console of choice doesn't have the same number of features or maybe because it isn't as streamlined. XBL, aside from not having dedicated game servers, is superior in every. Single. Way.
Thanks for the info. I can't imagine why you would want to direct copy something if you can stream it though. Seems like you would just be wasting disk space. That's just my opinion, but I still can't see the logic in it.
One thing that MS has going for them is its current momentum. The PS3 only outsold them by a some thousands of units not some astronomical number as most headlines sensationally claim. The only thing PS3 can do to catch up to MS's installed base is to cut its price $50. This will definitely put MS in a very tight position, in which they will probably make the Arcade SKU w/20GB for $249 and then turn Premium into 60-80GB SKU for $350. Though MGS4 for PS3 is nice it still remains a niche product at best. The PS3 kind of reminds me more of N64 with hardly any good games in the beginning so whatever your throw at it people will gobble it up which is why bad games like Cruisin USA sold so many copies on N64. So when you have a few exclusive but otherwise mediocre to terrible games on PS3(Mediocre: Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, Ratchet & Clank to Terrible: Lair, Untold Legends,Gundam,etc.)and most cross platform stuff is optimized for the 360, you'll catch whatever bone they throw at you.
I like how you don't even mention all the great and innovative games on the PS3 at all. Way to steer clear of "sensationalism." And don't tell me there aren't any good games because that would be an utter lie (aka Drakes, EoJ, NGS, and the upcoming FFXIII and FFXIII Versus; plus the other great cross platform games currently out that play as well on the PS3 as the 360).
Sorry, Drake is cool and all but overall, its not a system seller. NGS is essentially an old Xbox game and EoJ is probably the most "innovative" of the 3 you mentioned. A majority of people didn't run out and say "Oh!, I gotta get a PS3 because of Drake's Fortune!". I don't see any "innovative" games that are coming. Is MGS4 innovative?, FF games innovative? Ratchet & Clank innovative?,Haze innovative? KillZone 2 innovative? Heavenly Sword innovative?-None of the aforementioned titles are innovative, more of the same stuff from years ago with prettier graphics. This goes the same for MS as they are now in sequel mode. Please don't get it twisted, as I own all 3 consoles but I will tell it like it is. Why do most PS3 ports look washed out anyway, why are framerates a "problem"? I guess its good ol Sony overpromising and underdelivering.
This rumour started yesterday? was yesterday april fools?
One thing about blu-ray in 360 is that microsoft will need to license it from Sony and why would Sony allow for the competition to have blu-ray when they want the PS3 to be the only console to be able to play next-gen format which is an advantage.
Not only that but someone from Microsoft said they are not in talks with Sony to utilize blu-ray tech and they don't want it. Their future with Hi-def vids are with downloadable media. Microsoft didn't even want the HD-dvd, they only used it to stir things on the next-gen media war.
If the model with a Blu-Ray drive were quieter than the DVD model, you bet your ass I'd buy one. I don't even care about the movies all that much-- I just want to play Oblivion and GTAIV without hearing the damned drive spinning like it's about to take off and fly to La Guardia.
@Aythamie and those retorting his remarks.
I think what he was trying to say is that the ps3 tends to be standard with its different console options in that it doesn't prevent you from using any game features in actual ps3 games.
Yes, if you want to use ps2 games you run into the major hardware difference, the inclusion of the emotion chip(This was remedied in the 80gb version with software emulation not quite as good but works fine and is being improved). Basically the 40gb is the only one without a form of backwards compat.
HDD-Size argument:
HDD size really doesn't matter for the models since the hdd is easily swappable with other common HDDs(the laptop size I think, i dont remember). you can get a 20gb and then buy a bigger hdd if you need more space. just a matter of what hdd they slapped into the machine before shipping out. shoot got an old laptop with an 80gb drive? well you now have a new drive to put into your ps3...
Wi-Fi:
The 20gb can still access the internet through ethernet, so the lack of wifi doesnt cut you off from anything either, although it might be an inconvenience for some. probably why this model was discontinued.
MMS/CF/SD-card slots:
A nifty feature, but not really too useful since you can connect any jump drive or usb hd into your usb slots and then use them exactly as you would the flash drives... basically not a big loss to not have.. a convenience is all.
SACD support:
the 20gb doesn't have this... but, i really don't think that raises anyones concerns so who gives a dump...
Basically what we can see is that, the different skus provide convenience at a price Aside from the Backwards compat with the emotion chip there is no real major hardware change that isn't really a peripheral that has alternative uses provided.
I think the number o skus for soney can be attributed to Sony trying to cut the cost of the system to lower prices for a consumer and realize a profit. They have accomplished both. All the systems have the capability to play the same ps3 games in the same fashion(once again those lacking bc just won't be able to retire their ps2 yet) and use the same features in each game.
I will note that, one user commented that the main changes to the skus of the xbox360 were "Only" the chipsets... well just to point something out, changing a motherboard on a computer is a much larger and wider affecting change then swapping out a mouse or a flash card driver or any other component... The chipset is the core of the computer... I'm not saying that sony uses the same chipsets in each sku cause i dont know if they do... but to say that is a much minor change than any of the things listed above is just foolhardy and complete ignorance.. saying such a thing either indicates extreme ignorance(lack of understanding) or extreme fanboyism(skewing facts and ideas).
Personally I don't see anything wrong with variability with consoles so long as all skus will allow me to do basically all the same things with the products provided for that console. Some will be willing to pay extra for more convenience. Others will get a deal because they don't need the extra dead weight. They all can play the same ps3 game and have acess to the same features.
What makes me angry is when you buy a console and then an updated version of the console comes out with a new feature for games etc and you can't use it cause you have the "Old" console.
I am not sure I have seen that yet with either console.
I know the xbox360 ships a console with no hdd.. But i do not know if it can be upgraded with an hdd? if not, then that was poor planning on MS's part and people should be advised not to buy that version of the console. Microsoft will get the picture. Even with this,
I don't really believe in this future proof crap either. nothing is.
Honestly I have a ps3 and I love it. It is great, does exactly what I want. My brother has an xbox360, he loves it last i heard, and enjoys what it does. Competition is good and we should really be glad that we have more than one system
because it will drive both companies to provide more and better features to their users at a quicker rate. Microsoft drives Sony to provide me with more, and Sony does the same thing for microsoft. We are all benefitting here. Both consoles are powerful, and will be sticking around. Who gives a crap about bickering about which is better.. especially since often times the most successful console is far inferior to the more powerful ones on the market...*cough* Wii *cough*.... yeah i said it... so what... its true.. anyway just enjoy what you have and if you don't enjoy it get something else... but don't comment about things you refuse to try yourself or tried solely for the purpose of finding fault. Each console has its shortcommings and each has its pluses.
thanks for explaining,
i didn't want to start a flame war, just pointing to the bad planning of MS
that they might be digging their own grave with the SKU floods
I have a PS3 and i love it :)
Will microsoft continue to alienate it's early adopters and fuck them over even more for buying the xbox 360? I think this console war has seen the most number of SKU's ever!!! lol either way even if this is true they can't make blue ray games so down the line they are going to have to build the xbox 1080 to compete with sony's games which will start to look better and have more contents.
God the fanboyism is so annoying, why must there be a stupid arguement where no one concedes, and neither side gets anything from it. ppl get sucke dinto these stupid wars cuz of the media, yu should be happy with what yu have(proud ps3,wii,360,ds owner)and forget wha others think
You fools Microsoft will NEVER put Blu-ray in the xbox 360......because it uses JAVA for the interactivity.that mean they would have to pay SUN to use JAVA.....will not happen....
@ Yardman
To say that will never happen is foolish, to say it is not very likely is more sensible. Microsoft is not stupid and if consumer demand for Blu-Ray affects the selling ability of the xb360 then of course they will find a way to adapt even if it means adopting the blu-ray format.. they will explore other options heavily first though I'm sure. Right now the xb360 is doing well so what need is there to consider it publicly.
Um...and also, the original story/rumor DID come out on April Fool's Day, so...
Only someone out of their mind will buy a BD addon for the 360.
You will hear a jet engine going off while you play your movies with the 360 (BD addon).
I can't believe some of you are that desperate.
GO BUY A STAND ALONE PLAYER.
is this important?
Sorry, I had to make a comment.
What's with this Zeus.:God?? I saw all his/her/its posts but can't help wondering if he/she/it is some kind of Microsoft employee. Either that or Sony must have killed his pet in some way or another.
All the HD format war posts, comment threads, all the XBox/PS3 posts and comment threads etc, you see him/her/it coming in and giving all kinds of weird/illogical comments trying to justify the existence of the HD DVD format or that the Xbox360 is the grestest since sliced bread.
First off, I'm a guy- so "he", "his", "him".
Secondly, I don't sit here and blindly praise the Xbox, Microsoft, HD-DVD, or anything- I, unlike many here, have done my research, and know what the Hell I'm talking about and I also have a LOT of experience with computer hardware and such.
Maybe you should try reading my posts instead of labeling blindly.
The Xbox 360 isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I realize it has its problems- however, it is still better than the PS3 in most ways.
HD-DVD- Blu-Ray is technically superior, but it is far from it when it comes down to the consumer.
Again, try reading or try understanding what I'm saying before making stupid statements.
Just another 2 cents here.. I saw it once or twice that ps3 barely outsold xb360 by like a couple thousand. I think people really need to put statements like that into context. First of all, ps3 outsold xb360 in the US for the past 2 months by a few thousand(that would be a more detailed and correct statement and not so misleading). But worldwide on even a weekly basis, it has been quite a bit more. Just for the sake of analysis, going on market trends, sales have definitely shifted toward the ps3 even in the home turf of xb360. although it is only marginal, it is still pretty significant if that trend continues. Unfortunately we won't know if it is a glitch or something significant until a few more months down the road.
As it stands now if ps3 continues to outsell xb360 worldwide by around 40k units a week(which is comparable to about what it has been doing) 52 weeks in a year would close the gap by about 2.08 million a year. now if the trend is in favor of the ps3 like it appears, and lets say worldwide it increases slightly to about 80k/wk by the end of the year. then we are looking at a close in the gap closer to between 3-4 million. Thats obviously not even including the large bulk of sales that will happen during the holiday season. Anyway on that kind of trend that isn't far fetched at this point the Ps3 could pass the xb360 up in 2 years or less.(pure speculation at this point yes). The point is it doesn't have to be a whole lot to add up quickly. That is why microsoft is cutting prices and doing promos in europe and japan and other places outside the US. It is trying to narrow those margins because like any company, it wants to maintain the lead it has because in the end that means more money in the pocket. Now even if sony did widen the sales gap like that, would it spell ruin for Microsoft? no way! The xb360 is set to clear 20 million easily this year, so its in the clear and has a good future independent of the ps3 or wii for that matter.. This whole concept of one console going to put the other one out of business idea has really got to stop... If it were going to happen it would have... its not...
so can we move on to other things?
Nooooo the death of copied games!
testing this registration process
ps3's online is a horrible mess, and basically everything else is irrelevant until they fix it.
I'm trying to figure out if I should buy a 360 now, or wait and see if there will be blu-ray for it.
for the longest time, sony was only getting 10% yield on their chips, but still having to pay for the whole wafer because it was a custom design. I'm not sure what the yield is now on their chip, but I know they were hurting baaaad earlier in the year.
weird story about how i found this site. its pretty funny being on here for the first time and reading what some of u guys are saying (espeically because i'm pretty high). oh yea...Blu is the future, MS has to give in. Maybe not now but eventually. who cares which one sells better, i just want the best thing out for the cheapest price! i'm 28 and been playing since i was 6...i'm a true gamer.
Hey folks, just want to put it out there that this is an excellent time to be a gamer. You have many choices and you can pick and choose. Call me a Gamer of 30+years experience. If anyone knows anything about the development of video games they would know that Direct X is the API that determines how developers make a game. As stated in an NVidia end comment article - "As powerful as the PS3 is, the hardware power house is held back by 1 thing - Software - DirectX 9. While the half as powerful X360 has been certified for DX10 development. People in this day and age you shouldn't be ignorant of Google and researching the Internet and other sources. Please read up on things before you comment. My point is that PS3 is not really garnering the attention and support of developers. Not because they don't know what they are doing, but like why not the LS2LS7? explained about the PS3 development difficulties are impaired by tough programming. If you have any other information that is relevent to the Xbox 360 DX10 dev vs PS3 DX9 dev please enlighten me. Please understand that I have owned almost all of the platforms - PSone, PS2, Xbox, Dreamcast, Saturn, NeoGeo, 3DO, Genesis, SNES, NES, Famicom, TerribleGrafX16, build computers. When I researched the information for the 360 vs PS3 I would have purchased a PS3 if they were DX10 Certed. If the 360 gets an external BR player in September for $300, I will wait for it to drop to $179, aside from that my HDMI up converts all my DVD's to 1080i and my eyes are happy with that. Gears of War 2 will rule all. By the way, you can call this rumor but a friend of mine was in Japan about 4 years ago parusing a Bar and overheard Sony & Toshiba execs talking about partnering for a new format - Toshiba started work on HD-DVD and Sony was just teasing them with a unique drive - BR. He told me he over heard them kind of like bartering with money amounts and a few months later you have HD BR wars and now Sony at the top. HD was doomed from the start. Sony just didn't want to be seen as a monoply for format.
Who needs a BR when the 500GB DVD's are coming and compatible with all existing Dual Layer DVD-RW's!! Game on!
Blu-ray is cool