Verizon announces 700MHz LTE plans -- can you wait 3 years?
By Thomas Ricker 
posted Apr 4th 2008 8:05AM
posted Apr 4th 2008 8:05AM
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Can I wait three years?
Do I have a choice?
When will WiMax get off the ground?
I've been waiting 8 years to get rid of Bush for good.
3 years for a cellular service doesn't seem so bad.
7 years.
The year he was campaigning counts too.
Well, looks like the excitement is over for awhile then
what i want to know is how theyre going to cripple milk customers for their money.
What are the main standards that are competing in this new 4G Generation of mobile phones?
I tried Google and so far I only know of LTE and WiMax. Are there any other big names I should know about?
There's a not so well known UMB, but it's not really much of a contender. LTE and WiMax are the main two 4G choices, and it appears that most are throwing their weight towards LTE. The main carrier throwing it's weight toward WiMax has been experiencing a net loss of customers the last few quarters. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
dont make this a political discussion.
Ok but hurry up with FIOS
We definitely don't have a choice but to wait. I only hope it's worth waiting for. The operating cost will likely be huge and that will be passed on to users. I'm sure it won't be cheap.
Aren't LTE and WIMAX pretty much the same? WIMAX is a more open 4G standard, right?
wow. I don't even like Bush, but now I am anxiously waiting for you to stop making stupid ass comments...how long is that gonna take?
Who cares?
Do you really feel comfortable jumping on a Sprint backed technology?
at&t and Verizon are both going with LTE. I think I can wait for the big boys to get their networks going.
that comment was directed @Flashpoint
This was supposed to be a reply to the first comment.
The comment system, apparently, decided it makes more sense down here, completely out of context. Sorry guys, I know this makes no sense down here.
Apparently, the reply system is broken.
Best to click on the date under the persons name to Reply to that specific comment. Hope that helps.
WiMax is not working in real-world applications worldwide, so it is being pulled back. Sprint is soon going to announce that it has abandoned its WiMax plans. Instead, LTE is the 4G technology of choice. The problem with LTE is that it will take years to improve backhauling and deploy the network.
The short-term solution that is not discussed enough is the simple software upgrade from Rev A (the flavor of EvDO, 3G, used by Sprint and VZW and others now) to Rev B, which is several times faster. It requires only a software upgrade and could be fully deployed in months, if they wanted to. I dont understand the drive to move to LTE because Rev B would provide speeds that 99.9% of people would be happy with (faster than most decent cable modems today) at a much lower cost and shorter time frame. Qualcom already has the tech ready to go - VZW just needs to be deployed. Another advantage is that it is backwards compatible with all previous generations - RevA, Rev0, 1x - all CDMA. Of course LTE speeds would be nicer, but will likely be more expensive, and again, take several years to roll out. Triple speeds now, or quintuple several years later at a higher price? Easy call, isnt it?
From what I've gathered, LTE is an IP based network while EVDO is not. I'd be willing to wait for this over a simple speed upgrade.
Well are they even mutually exclusive in Verizon's case? They said they are going to deploy LTE/HSOPA on 700mhz.. I assume they will keep their CDMA network for years and probably have dual-mode phones, don't you think? If so, why wouldn't they upgrade the existing network to EVDO rev.B while they are working on LTE on 700mhz?
UMB is 3GPP2's standard that migrated from CDMA1x and EV-DO. But two of UMB's prospects, Verizon and KDDI(reportedly), decided to go LTE, relegating UMB to be the John Edwards of the 4G war.
Then there is China who wants to upgrade their current TD-SCDMA system to meet 4G standards. But then again, their 3G network is still in construction...
@ Steffen Jobbs
There's UMB, TD-SCDMA, WIMAX, LTE, and that's pretty much it for viable 4G standards. Of those, LTE is looking like the real winner, with Verizon and AT&T and most other operators around the world going towards it.
I'm a little worried about Sprint going under, but I can't stand the way that Verizon rapes your wallet when they own you (read: when you sign a contract with them). . . so I guess I'm sticking with Metro PCS until I see something promising from either front.
I wouldn't be too worried, if Sprint goes it would be gobbled up by Verizon. Think about it you can get Sprint's great prices and Verizon's network!!
Sprint's "great prices" are less than Metro. I live in the Tampa area, and the cell phone market is being dominated by Metro PCS. $50 a month (after taxes, fees, etc.) for unlimited talk and data. Granted, it isn't the fastest and doesn't work everywhere, it's still stomping out the other carriers down here.
In a perfect world: The Nuviphone comes out and lives up to the hype. Sprint gets "gobbled" by Verizon and gives up WiMax for LTE. Verizon starts to see competition in the market of unlimited talk and data and lowers the price on their everything plan to something affordable for a college student. Also, nobody ever asks about blending or Doom, because they finally realize that those jokes are beyond old.
I like you avatar.
ALERT: If it doesn't say "IN REPLY TO: USERNAME"
then you're doing it wrong and it is not a reply. Just an FYI.
If in 3 years I can have FiOS too. Then I have no problem with this at all.
@ Big Al
Thanks for the summary. It definitely makes more sense to me. I'm stuck with Sprint for now but I can't wait till the new iPhone drops or someone comes up with something truly better.
at least verizon will put the spectrum to good use. at&t refuses to expand their coverage. 4 different carriers work at my house, 2 don't. guess who those two are. at&t and t-mobile.
@Wussbag,
Rev A has been running on 1.25MHz bandwidth. Rev B needs 5MHz, making it more difficult that u think to upgrade their systems. This would also likely take some time to find the spectrum they have now that they won't use for LTE. Then upgrading the structures could take some time too. (see Xohm)
It seems to make more sense to me to concentrate resources on getting LTE out asap.
I am going to stop watching this stuff. It just seems like all Cellular companies are just admitting that you will need to buy a new phone every 2 years. I am sick of contract extensions.
I'm glad I'm with verizon. Seems like things are finally looking up after I signed my life away two year ago lol
@Ubuntu 7.10 WindowsXP
you don't need to do a contract. just buy your phones at no commitment. you pay more for the phone but no contract. or you can buy it from the manufacture.
Sorry, that's not right. RevB is not necessarily a simple software upgrade, it actually bonds several 1.25MHz carriers together to make a faster channel. This means that a base station will require additional spectrum, modem cards, and RF cards. Qualcomm may have the spec written, but I know for a fact that the implementation by the actual network hardware vendors is still in process. This is not a case of stinky old verizon is too cheap to upgrade, this is a case of things aren't as easy or as ready as you think.
That said, RevB has a good chance of being deployed in the interim by Sprint or Verizon, while we wait for LTE or WiMax to be ready. Expect those to be later than you expect, because things always take longer than you'd like. If they're saying 2010, I wouldn't hold my breath.. figure field trials then and real deployments later.
Finally, WiMax and LTE are both going to be based on the same sort of air interface (OFDM), so I'd bet that if one of them end up working, both of them probably will. They will be incompatible, but based on the same concepts (just like UMTS and CDMA).
Finally, someone that knows what they're talking about! :-)
Nice. I never thought making a post on Engadget into something political was possible. Then again, I barely ever read the comments anymore so I may be wrong.
I won't wait that long.
Here is to pirate long range Wi-Fi!
> WiMax is not working in real-world applications worldwide
Mobile WiMax is fully operational in its native land, Korea.
> Sprint is soon going to announce that it has abandoned its WiMax plans.
Sprint has to have something up and running by 2009, or they lose the spectrum. They have no choice but to go Mobile WiMax all the way.
> Instead, LTE is the 4G technology of choice.
LTE is not 4G. But neither is current Mobile WiMax Wave 2.
> The problem with LTE is that it will take years to improve backhauling and deploy the network.
And Mobile WiMax will be upgraded to real 4G by the time LTE launches.
> I dont understand the drive to move to LTE because Rev B would provide speeds that 99.9% of people would be happy with (faster than most decent cable modems today) at a much lower cost and shorter time frame.
People dislike doing business with Qualcomm.
> Triple speeds now, or quintuple several years later at a higher price? Easy call, isnt it?
You as a consumer no choice since Intel's putting Mobile WiMax in all of its future Centrino laptops. Which service are you going to sign up for, a service that is built into your laptop and MID or another service that must be added via USB dongle?
It isn't matter of what is built in. If WiMax can't get the coverage/building penetration/reception of LTE on 700mHz band, then it will be difficult to justify the "it's built in" difference compared to the USB dongle.
Yeah, my laptop has IR built into it too, but guess how often that gets used?
UMB or Ultra Mobile Broadband, is a 4G spec from Qualcom, I'm not aware of anyone that has announced that they will use it though. I also though I remember reading somewhere that WiMax wasn't declared 4G but 3.5G or something, am I wrong on that?
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Sprint is going to have to practically give away Xohm for it to take off. They simply don't have the revenue to build out the network.
Isn't LTE inherently faster then wimax any way? I think the carriers should use an agreed upon standard for 4 g. So devices can be used globally.
I will be interesting to see how everything plays out. I’m surprised that no international companies have put in a takeover bid for Sprint. With the weak USD and an almost 30 billion dollar right down, someone could get them on the cheap.
Well my question is if LTE is GSM basesd and ATT is GSM and Verizon is CDMA and they are going with LTE dose that mean they are going with GSM?? And giving up CDMA cause they could go with UTB thats for CDMA any thoughs?
Well my question is if LTE is GSM basesd and ATT is GSM and Verizon is CDMA and they are going with LTE dose that mean they are going with GSM?? And giving up CDMA cause they could go with UTB thats for CDMA any thoughs?
I want LTE now god damn!
We all want it too but for anyone its still in early devolopement stages still needs a lot of field testing plus the 700mzh spectrum hasnt been released yet next year well start to see little bit maybe
plus 3G is still being deployed going with HSUPA and HSPA+and also what about EGPRS 2???? Anyone thoughts?
Also where is T-Mobile at in all this??? They dont even have a 3G network up yet?
That's just what I was going to ask. You see all this activity and it's always surrounding AT&T, Verizon, and Sprint. But T-Mobile is no where to be found. They don't even have 3G up and running, let alone 3.5/3.75G (HSPA). Now all these other carriers are moving onto 3.9/4G technologies.
T-Mobile didn't play any part in the 700MHz auctions that I know of. I could be wrong there, but I never heard a thing about them being involved. If they don't get truly competitive this year, they're going to be out of the game. Who knows, maybe another carrier will buy them out.
As far as GSM is concerned, the only things T-Mobile has going for it, are pricing and customer service - which are big things. But AT&T has the better coverage, better phones and a wider selection of them, and is much more progressive with their services and network technology. Apparently, even Starbucks has dropped T-Mobile as a supplier for their WiFi and are teaming up with AT&T.
T-Mobile is quickly turning into a ghost. If AT&T offered better customer service, and lowered their prices without "nickel and diming" people to death, there would be absolutely no reason to stick around with T-Mobile. The primary reason why people do, is because of the pricing.
Well as for the pricing I hosnestly dont think ATT is over priced I mean there pda plan for internet is 30 a month and that for 3G unlimited there doing alot of changes with there pricing and what not you just need to check out there site I have 10 lines on my plan and for all of us its 500 the most is 600
Yes, AT&T has a PDA plan called PDA Personal for $30/mo., but that includes no messaging whatsoever, which most anyone with a plan like that would want and need. The next step up from that is their PDA Personal Bundle with unlimited messaging (which is the only way they bundle it), for $50/mo. That is WAY too much. Unlimited data with unlimited messaging should be no more than $30 or $35/mo. So they need to slice about $15 or $20 off that particular PDA plan.
Also, their voice plans are too much. Only 450 anytime minutes (AM's) for $40? Sure, you have rollover, but with only 450 minutes per month, you're not going to be rolling anything over. And sure, they offer unlimited nights and weekends, but most of that will be during hours that most adults aren't calling, so that's of little worth - carriers always add that to make people think there's really added value in that, but there really isn't. And yes, they offer unlimited M2M, too, but what if your friends and family aren't on AT&T? It would do you no good. None of mine are and they aren't ready to switch - so for me, U-M2M at AT&T is worth nothing.
So the only solution then is to bump up to the next voice plan which is their 900 AM's for $60. Whew. Way too much! You bundle that with the PDA Personal Bundle data plan, and you're at $110/mo., and that doesn't even include taxes! That's absurd.
On T-Mo, I have 1500 AM's, U-M2M (very valuable to me since the loved ones I talk to most are on T-Mo), and unlimited messaging - all for about $60/mo.! Adding unlimited data (internet, email, and T-Mobile WiFi HotSpots) only adds another $20/mo. to my bill, bringing me up to $80/mo.
So comparing to AT&T's plans, I have the same U-M2M/data/messaging, but based on a similarly priced plan, I have over 1000 more AM's, yet I'm still paying $30/mo. less.
If AT&T offered 900 AM's with everything else for $40/mo., and shaved $20 off that PDA PB plan, then I'd switch.
Psh, well, Im disappointed now. Whose to say Ill still be a VZW customer then?
I mean, Im on a two year contract, but even if I renewed it, they probably wont have have it finished by the time my RENEWED contract is up.
Im not happy, but Im not disappointed. With Sprints new low prices, VZW is less and less appealing, especially since they havent wow'd me with how they are going to use this new spectrum.
Price isn't everything. I'm more than willing to pay more for VZW than Sprint. I rarely have dropped calls with VZW and VZW's customer service is usually pretty decent. Those are things I couldn't say when I had Sprint.
I hear ya, but now it'll take the next 20 years to pay for the war he started. Trying to extract his dad's revenge on Sadam.
How many years?! In tech years thats too short too long, have it out tomorrow or you too will be bought by the evil doers, sorry I meant Microsoft.
I can wait forever since I dont ever see myself going to Verizon or Sprint
All for the low low price of $60 a month no doubt with "justified" price hikes annually of $3-$5.
You think I'm joking don't you....just wait.
It seems as though everyone has an opinion when it comes to wireless. It never fails. LOL.
I think that Verizon's push to LTE is going to be a very good thing. I know we all wish(me included) that it is now instead of years later, but think of the things that this will accomplish. These are just theories, whatever the carriers decide to do, is up to them.
From my research, LTE is a branch of the 3gPP in the form of GSM/HSDPA. Qualcomm I believe has set the standard for Rev. a, and have just finished with the standards and equipment for Rev. B. But how many Rev. A devices are there? 2 How many devices are enabled for Rev. A? 0 My point is that it will take time to deploy a network and get GOOD devices on them. So that puts us at 2009 for Rev. A Devices and probably 2010, 2011 for Rev. B devices. In that time period they could have LTE in a functional state, and offer it as a solution. The more people that you have in LTE frees up bandwith and spectrum on Rev A. In which case you can actually turn up the throughput on Rev. A as an option instead of installing Rev. B. And Sprint and Verizon could do this.
The cool things is that by going LTE, you get a very good mix of vendors, and GOOD PHONES. When was the last time you saw a really good Nokia phone on Verizon or Sprint? And I am not even talking about the rebranded pantech phones because the nokia phones didn't pass FCC testing. And when I say good phone, I mean one that is competitive in features around $300?
As far as rate plans go, I think LTE will make things cheaper in the end because you can control QoS with the throughput of the network. I think that you will see more and more unlimited plans or creative rate plans to fit the need. Right now it seems that everyone has the same rate plan. Some carriers might have some different options(7pm nights, etc.). But I think that it will be very exciting.
Contracts probably won't go away until the wireless market dust settles. What I mean is that when customer loyalty goes up contracts will probably go away. Think of how many customers left their discounts, loyalty, perks from their current carriers in lieu of the iPhone? When all the carriers said no initially, and at&t recinded after a 5yr eclusivity deal. For a phone right now that doesn't do as much as regular phone. My point is that consumer loyalty is very fickle, regardless of the level of service, price, etc. What you might start seeing in the new future though is the paying an additional price per month or on your plan for discounts multiple times in the term of your contract. I have no hard data either way, but i think this is lot more closer to fruition than a no contracts.
just my two cents..