Hey, we hate lawsuits just as much as the next guy, but we're finding it hard to fault
Verizon for this one. Verizon and
Time Warner Cable arrived in court on Wednesday to settle a tiff over some ads that Verizon claims offer up misleading info about Verizon's
FiOS service. Listed among the complaints include supposed false implications by TWC that FiOS requires a satellite dish, doesn't include phone, broadband and video, and that Time Warner's network is better. Time Warner Cable is naturally calling the lawsuit "without merit." Verizon wants TWC to stop running the ads and issue a retraction, as well as compensate them for lost revenue. We're not positive which ad Verizon is referring to, but if it's anything like the ad after the break -- which has some downright false implications about Time Warner Cable using fiber optics "for over a decade" -- then Verizon very well might have something here. [
Disclosure: Engadget is part of the Time Warner family]
Update: Reader Max sent us in a version of the ad in which it's actually implied that Verizon requires a satellite dish for its FiOS service. Seriously, you can't make this crap up -- well, apparently TWC can. Ad after the break.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
waffles @ Apr 10th 2008 11:58AM
now thats what i call jazz hands
Tom B @ Apr 10th 2008 4:37PM
Theoretically, they're not lying... just representing truths in a misleading way. Cable DOES use Fiber-Optic cable... it's just not in any way DEDICATED Fiber Optics which is what FiOS is... I don't think there is a person in the world who is educated about the subject who would actually believe this commercial and would see why it's misleading.. but it certainly gives those who don't know anything about it the impression that Verizon is trying to pull a fast one when it's really TWC playing tricks.
kev @ Apr 10th 2008 10:03PM
Cable also uses copper like those 'old guys'. Ever stop to wonder what that thin wire in that shielded coaxial cable of yours?
They're catering to the stupidity of the average person. It works wonders to use gross misrepresentation.
Nimajus Bagdonavicius @ Apr 10th 2008 12:00PM
That ad is like a corporate wedgy. It's funny I must admit.
r3loaded @ Apr 10th 2008 1:35PM
Lol, I love your phrase "corporate wedgy". I must integrate that into my vocabulary now :D
Btw, forgive me for my ignorance, but doesn't cable service imply fibre-optic connections?
phanbouy @ Apr 10th 2008 2:04PM
Mr. jazz hands actor is the one with the wedgie.
what is it with the unwritten rule that 2/3 of all male actors in TV ads must humiliate themselves? honor is dead
nh @ Apr 10th 2008 2:23PM
What? ... No she's not, sicko.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_Blackman
ph0t0phobic @ Apr 10th 2008 2:24PM
I agree. I too now
ph0t0phobic @ Apr 10th 2008 2:30PM
Sorry comments screwed up on me!
I too now heart the term 'corporate wedgie'.
And to r3loaded:
Time Warner uses fibre-optic cables no more than my old Dial-Up provider did. Their regional switching office is connected to the internet backbone via fibre-optic cables, but from their local office to my cable modem, its all copper.
CUBSWILLWIN @ Apr 10th 2008 12:00PM
those time warner plans are REAL expensive compared to what I got. Wow. And it's not for the first 4 months either.
NxP3 @ Apr 10th 2008 12:01PM
Wow...if TWC clams those words...Verizon sure got a case there. That's just outright lies. They could have gone with soemthing more truthful like FIOS is hardly available everywhere. In fact I've been trying to switch over to FIOS from timewarner, now comcast but they say they have no plans in my area.
Kiwi616 @ Apr 10th 2008 1:09PM
TW has been using fiber optics for over a decade....just not directly linked to our homes. Their networks consists of all fiber optic cables at the main hubs, but its the bottle neck to consumer home that cause a slow down.
Not false advertising...just misleading information, gets the consumer every time. Just look at the DL/UL speed differential.
rlynd3 @ Apr 10th 2008 1:50PM
I agree. Misleading, Yes. False, No.
But does it really matter? that is one of those commercials that reminds me to pick up the remote and hit fast forward. ;)
Jeff @ Apr 10th 2008 5:31PM
Cablevision has been running these exact same ads - I thought they *were* Cablevision ads, but maybe any cable company that wants to can use them.
In fact, much of CV's network *is* "last mile" fiber, just not from the street into your house (it's converted to coax at the box on a telephone pole outside). My neighborhood is 100% fiber on Cablevision. I can't speak for Time Warner, but if they're doing the same, then these ads aren't really inaccurate.
Cablevision in my area also has the same internet speeds as FIOS, and TV that until recently at least was just as good... though quality seems to be slipping lately. I had FIOS for a while and was not very impressed, though, and their goddamn network router that they literally force you to use went down on me at least once per day. That was enough to send me back to Cablevision.
Dean @ Apr 10th 2008 12:01PM
hmm, this makes me think, has microsoft ever sued apple for their slanderlishious ads?
Codey H. @ Apr 10th 2008 12:03PM
They have to be false ads to sue.
Dean @ Apr 10th 2008 12:06PM
well what they imply is false, and this seems to parrallel quite well with this verizon twc deal.
i really hope i didn't turn this post into a mac vs. windows bash, just saying thats what I thought of when i saw the clip above.
bondsbw @ Apr 10th 2008 12:56PM
It must be provably false. None of the ads, at the time they aired, were false in a way that can be proven.
Yes, Apple can say "Macs are more secure than PCs." There is no single, well-accepted metric of computer security, so their claims cannot be proven false. (Microsoft could easily rebut with "PCs are actually more secure" and Apple couldn't do a thing about it.) Although, most people would cry foul considering Microsoft's track record.
Most everything else in those ads are the same way.
Oinquer @ Apr 11th 2008 6:42AM
it wasnt my mac that got banged in 5 minutes in the hacker party in canada...microsoft was next..but that technicly makes PC's more safe...
...ubuntu was the only one who stayed alive after all the hacking...
Gorillamonk @ Apr 10th 2008 1:20PM
bonds makes a great point. It's hurtful and all, but a great point. It sounds slanderous, but it can go both ways.
All the companies can say they have the fastest, but depending on where you are and which plan you pick, that varies.
AlexL @ Apr 10th 2008 1:32PM
There are plenty of things in the Apple commercials that can be proven false. For example, one commercial implies that Windows PCs do not come with built-in webcams when in fact many different Windows PC models have that exact feature. In the Time Machine commercial Apple claims a similar feature doesn't exist in Windows, when Windows Vista's Backup and Restore feature provides more functionality than Time Machine. The list goes on and on, I'd say Microsoft has a pretty good case if they wanted to go after those ads.
James @ Apr 10th 2008 1:48PM
I would like to point out that the Mac vs. PC ads are just that, Mac vs. PC. It's not saying Microsoft, or Windows... or heck, OSX isn't even mentioned, just implied. The ad above specifically is calling out Verizon...
Dean @ Apr 10th 2008 2:04PM
@ james
right, i forgot, they weren;t talking about microsoft when they said "vista still doesn't work right, ... it has caused so many problems" ok, so they didn't say "use osx" but they did say "should have gotten a mac"
Dorf @ Apr 10th 2008 2:11PM
I like the Mac v. PC ad where they try to make it sound bad that PC has all those parts manufactures while Mac does not.
Yeah, it sure sucks that competition exists to drive down prices. The horror!!!!
conor @ Apr 10th 2008 3:44PM
What about ebay saying not to use safari?
LaughingMan @ Apr 10th 2008 4:33PM
Vista's backup and restore feature is a feature that only specific SKUs of Vista have, specifically, on the business side, and Ultimate edition. For someone buying a PC with Home Basic Home Premium, the backup feature is missing entirely.
How many PCs do you think out there come with Home edition, and therefore crippled backup?
Time Machine comes with every version of Mac OS X (easy since there is only one), and every Mac.
AlexL @ Apr 10th 2008 4:45PM
Check your facts. Windows Vista Home Premium has the full Windows Backup and Restore Center. Home Basic has limited functionality of it, only Starter is missing it entirely.
And that's completely besides the point. In the ad, Apple is trying to portray the Windows PC as missing these features completely. The problem is the user has a choice in the Windows PC as to whether their system has this feature or not. And that's the problem with nearly all the Mac vs. PC ads: Apple tries to spin choice into something bad. Sure, some Windows PCs don't have Backup and Restore Center; some Windows PCs don't have built-in webcams. But others do have those features, which defeats the argument Apple is trying to spin completely.
Tom B @ Apr 10th 2008 4:54PM
Apple is using similar tactics, but the problem is that a decent amount of the industry has experienced what is being insinuated in the commercials. Most of marketing is not what you say but how you say it. Depending on which point of view you're looking from, there are a great deal of commercials that seem like lies.
Someone above said that one commercial implies that PCs don't come with webcams built in... but I saw the commercial as saying that almost all Macs come with Webcams built in rather than a few PCs.
Rarely do you see any downright lies in these ads (like the TWC vs. Verizon one here), but you see truth painted in a certain way to give a certain impression that helps the cause of the commercial you're watching every single day.
Besides Apple's marketing team knows exactly what they're doing by calling out the kinds of problems windows users experience everyday to make some kind of emotional connection with them and try and convince them that a Mac won't let them down (and I am a Mac user and Fanboy and even I can't say that my Mac has never crashed). The commercials wouldn't keep airing if they weren't WILDLY successful.
Dean @ Apr 10th 2008 5:03PM
my issue, is that people in general are stupid, they are sheep, and will follow what others say. If a person is uneducated in computers (or telecoms or whatev) people will see these things as fact, and then be deceived. Take a look at windows ads, they advertise the advantages to windows, office, etc, and usually the synergy that the products bring. apple on the other hand just bashes windows without really caliming much for their side. Its usually like "windows sucks, we can make pretty photoalbums" really until leopard came out, there was very little in competition betweenfeatures, just that "pc can't do what mac can" Some one unaware of the truth will fall into this, even if they would have been perfectly happy with their bargain pc. does it work? sure it does, but it feels skeezy. Instead of low balling others, how about making a product that people actually think is better, and thus buy it.
trebah @ Apr 10th 2008 12:04PM
I cringe every time I see this ad. I say pull it for the sake of TV watchers everywhere.
Christopher Wilson @ Apr 10th 2008 12:06PM
The part where they say you have to get satelite to get their tv service irks me, because its false. But when the guy waves his hands and goes "im talking verizon's type of fibberrr" I giggle.
AlexL @ Apr 10th 2008 1:35PM
It's not false, it's true conditionally. Verizon's TV service is not available in all areas where FiOS is available. In those areas that have FiOS but don't have Verizon TV yet, Verizon offers a bundle deal with DirectTV that combines their FiOS internet and phone service with DirectTV's satellite television service. So when TWC claim Verizon's FiOS requires satellite dishes to use, they are telling the truth, but only for certain areas.
nyandrews @ Apr 10th 2008 12:07PM
In New York City TWC started running a different version of this add that does in fact mention a satelite dish is required for FIOS. When I first saw the ad I knew it not to be correct. It is going to be funny to see how this is settled.
NikolasM @ Apr 10th 2008 12:08PM
The Hybrid Fiber Coax networks began in the mid 90's and were begun to be implemented by the cable co's starting in 1997 or so. As it is 2008 it is entirely possible that TWC has been using fiber for over ten years.
Jeremy W @ Apr 10th 2008 12:20PM
Yes, thank you. The ad is slightly misleading, but it is 100% true.
Victor @ Apr 10th 2008 12:32PM
It actually is true...but it definitely is misleading. The fiber networks have been used for business services (data centers, etc), rather than consumer end services. Who cares, I hate TWC consumer services and went with at&t UVerse instead.
Adam @ Apr 10th 2008 12:59PM
Yes, but Fios is Fiber to the Home while TWC doesn't have Fiber in the "last mile" part of their offering, it just connects their POPs and Central Offices
Mutant @ Apr 10th 2008 1:05PM
A Hybrid Fiber-Coax network (HFC in the cable biz) is not the same as the fiber to the home that Verizon is offering. This is misleading but their is a grain of truth that can be used as a defence.
I have to side with Verizon here but the courts might not.
Full disclosure. I work for a company that sells equipment to both Time Warner and Verizon.
TJ @ Apr 10th 2008 12:11PM
The Time Warner ad is funny. But, when they say that Verizon has tv service, they are saying that Verizon only offers it with their DirecTV satellite agreement, not on FiOS which is Fiber Optics.
Jeremy W @ Apr 10th 2008 12:20PM
But they do offer TV on FiOS, that's the whole point.
jase @ Apr 10th 2008 12:38PM
not everywhere there are places they offer fios without tv. its simplify not available so in theory you would need to get satellite or go 1950 and have like 4 stations
idlemind @ Apr 10th 2008 12:25PM
I hope in exchange they make Verizon drop the ad with the little kid.
"...You should see his twuck"
riggs @ Apr 10th 2008 12:33PM
i always feel like punching that lil kid in the FACE.
Jim @ Apr 10th 2008 12:25PM
"Disclosure: Engadget is part of the Time Warner family"
Fail
Grant @ Apr 10th 2008 1:24PM
i would love to see the shit that goes down at that family Christmas party.
Dr. Evil @ Apr 10th 2008 12:26PM
TWC is just plain sad. This ad proves it. They seem to think subscribers are morons.
Pete @ Apr 10th 2008 2:23PM
Sadly... for the most part they are right. The 'Average Joe' subscriber is a moron when it comes to knowing much of anything about technology.
stromm @ Apr 10th 2008 12:31PM
"which has some downright false implications about Time Warner Cable using fiber optics "for over a decade" -- then Verizon very well might have something here"
Someone needs to check their facts. I've had RR in Central Ohio since 1995. When they started rolling it out, they were also replacing the lines to houses with fiber. I was without cable for 2 days when the first truck took out all the lines down the alley on my street and before they ran the fiber along the poles.
Even when I moved to just north of columbus, TW had fiber run to the switch used by 20 homes.
dexter fillmore @ Apr 10th 2008 2:32PM
"... TW had fiber run to the switch used by 20 homes."
that's the point, they didn't run the last mile with fiber; fios does.
Pete @ Apr 10th 2008 2:34PM
Fiber to the switch is different than fiber to the house... You were sharing that bandwidth with 20 different people by your own admission. In many areas (including where I live - also in Central Ohio) that leads to bandwidth issues during peak times... I honestly switched to DSL because it is *consistently* faster than my RoadRunner connection was. I also get more HDTV channels now that I have DirectTV than any of my friends/neighbors with TimeWarner.