So the rumors swirling around would-be Mac clone maker
Psystar are getting pretty wild out there -- we've heard everything from "Apple has shut the company down" to "Psystar is going to challenge Apple's EULA in court" in the vacuum following the company's
site meltdown yesterday. That's a big spread, so we hit up Psystar's president Rudy Pedraza for some answers. Rudy was relatively cagey on the phone, refusing to answer any questions about Apple's EULA or copyrights -- or even confirm if Apple has talked with the company -- but he told us that he's got a "team" of people working on an official response and that the Open Computer (and the new quad-core Open Pro, pictured above) are still for sale. What's more, he told us that "a few" orders placed before yesterday's flood of interest have shipped, which means we're curious to see if any of these early adopters actually surface in the next few days. Rudy also told us that Psystar isn't out to infringe any copyrights or trademarks (really?), and that he has no idea how Information Week got a quote from someone named "Robert" indicating that the company was going to challenge Apple's EULA in court. Sure thing. Rudy promised us a machine either today or tomorrow, we'll see what happens -- honestly, it seems like things are chaos at Psystar's HQ in Miami right now.
P.S. -Remember
MGM v. Grokster? In that case the Supreme Court ruled that a company that based its business around the knowing copyright infringement of customers was still liable, even if it didn't infringe directly. Kinda shoots a hole in the "just don't pre-install Leopard" theory, no?
Read - Psystar Open Pro
Read - Information Week ("Psystar vows to challenge Apple EULA")
Read - DailyTech: ("Apple Kills Psystar's $399 Mac")
posted April 15th 2008 12:53PM
looks like a fridge.
That's an Antec P180. They're a legend as far as noise reduction and build quality is concerned. Are the mac clones being made in those, or is it just an unrelated picture of a nice case?
hey, watch it pal, I have that case - except in black :)
haha that's the exact thing i had in my mind when i first saw this
Psystar are also offering a "Open Computer Pro " build, with higher specs, using this case.
This case is awsome, even legendary in the homebrew community.
and where is that "Nilay is a lawyer but not YOUR lawyer..." stuff :D ;)
Im just replying to the first post to say that the Dailytech article is full of very very wrong information and shouldnt be included in the posts. It only has assumptions (and wrong ones at that), for instance Psystar didnt make the EFI emulator.
Flashpoint, Your mom looks like a fridge.
@billmao
kegerator?
I have that Antec case. Great choice for a high end computer, be it a mac wanna be or not.
Apple may just stand back and let people buy the computer (If they like taking these types of risks) and just keep updating their OS to render it useless for OS X.Then again knowing Apple, they might want to send a message to Psystar in the courts.
How exactly is Apple going to cripple OS X running on Intel hardware without crippling their iMacs and Mac Pros?
updating the EFI of all macs out there via a forced software update which would brick the clones
updating the EFI of all macs out there via a forced software update which would brick the clones
Maybe for the short time it takes for netkas to rewrite his EFI software.
Frankly it isn't worth the risk, let's say Apple did try something as risky as a full EFI update, if it breaks any of their Intel based Macs, the hit to their "superior reliability" reputation will cause a lot more harm than the guys running unsupported platforms.
the depicted case is not one made by psystar.
it clearly is an "Antec P182 ". check it at www.antec.com
really good case, has received lots of good reviews.
i hit myself on the head. it's the p180. the p182 is the black one ;)
P180 of course... P182 is the black one
I have the P182 blackness goodness, it rocks!
Actually, there is a black version on the p180 as well, it's called the p180b.
Nilay gave legal analysis without his disclaimer!!!
(Looks up, waits to see if sky is falling)
That's because this is just looking at a situation and has nothing to do with what a reader of Engadget might do. If there were any advice, or if you were put at risk buying this product, then the disclaimer would be there, but in this situation, there is no advice to be given.
wow I don't think I've ever heard engadget be this much of a apple fanboy before... while I was reading it I could just tell that they want Psystar to go under in court... personally I hope that they succeed and that apple gets a bite taken out of there market share ;-)
Psystar's site is painfully slow. Tried to look at it unsuccessfully, twice. Interesting idea, but why not use a faster processor?
The case looks like a refrigerator.
I deserved that low ranking.
It was completely inexcusable to not see that the FIRST COMMENT said the very same thing.
*shame* I'll do better next time.
Wow, I don't know what's dripping more in this story--the editorializing or the glee, or quite possibly just a lot of devout froth and saliva. Whatever happened to cheering for the underdog? Oh wait--in some people's minds Apple still IS the underdog. Yeah, let's all cheer for a large team of lawyers instead.
Being the underdog doesn't always make you right.
everybody loves cheering for lawyers... especially over paid lawyers employed by steve jobs...
"Wow, I don't know what's dripping more in this story--the editorializing or the glee, or quite possibly just a lot of devout froth and saliva. Whatever happened to cheering for the underdog? Oh wait--in some people's minds Apple still IS the underdog. Yeah, let's all cheer for a large team of lawyers instead."
It's really not too hard to understand...
The writer knows that if people are able to buy Mac clones, Apple's business will be severely affected. People who want OSX HAVE to be locked into Apple's hardware. Lock in = $$$ for Apple which means happy Apple fanatics for reasons to weird to understand.
Now here comes these guys having the nerve to offer something like this. While yes, you have seen many times in the past where similar efforts open up products, get around restrictions or other forms of "sticking it to the man" were greeted with cheers and applauds, When you do that to Apple, and as a result undercut them, then you are no hero. The Apple Protection Racket (APR) jumps into action and try to take you down or at least cheer for the lawyers to do so.
Notice how the lawyers for Apple are the only ones some of these guys like? RIAA, MPAA, Sony, MS, Comcast are all sharks, Apple lawyers are just good guys trying to protect Apple for bastards like these.
Rise Against reference?
Why not just market them as "compatible with OS X" but ship them with Linux?
Stating that they are "compatible with OS X" is a fraudulent claim, because the only way that can possibly be true is if the user were to violate the EULA. If a buyer were to purchase one of these computers based on that claim, I think this is what is referred to as "fraud in the inducement." (IANAL, of course.)
i really hope this succeeds...hopefully in the near future, OSX will become more readily available for use. as a hackintosh user, i know the pain involved in setting up ones rig to get OSX running. took me a week and its still not 100% functional. what i really want is for the EULA statement to be modified making it possible to run OSX on a pc legally. say via VMWARE if not natively.
Im currently tring to get OSX to work on my homebrew PC. Ive got everything working except the res is stuck at 1024x768. To have something that "just works" would be awesome and this costs way less than a mini.
what irks me the most is that they are profiting off of other people's hard work that they did for free (netkas and his efi bootloaders). everything else is just normal intel pc hardware, nothing special in that at all. any dell pc can be an "open mac" with the work that netkas and the rest of insanelymac has done.
You know what, you've got a good point there. If it wasn't for those two areas and the people that did put a lot of hard work into this project -- I don't think it would be possible.
Or is OSX able to run without EFI emulation?
you guys both have a point..it is indeed true that netkas, uphuck, kalyway and all the others over at insanelymac have made all this possible..but it is inevitable that someone will profit from this. I think that they are justified in what they are doing because they are providing a service to people that are just not tech savvy enough to be able to install OSX on their computers themselves. and that is the vast majority of the population.
althought they are simply repackaging someone elses product, the fact that they are making it simple for consumers to use is their service. if they custom build the pcs so that they are 100% compatible with everything working, wifi GFX, CPU, sound, ethernet, sleep, restart..then kudos to them.
atJoshua.JWilliams: i is possible for apple to run without EFI emulation, but the whole point is to have EFI emulation because that is what allows pcs to natively boot macs.
Khaeos, i understand your thoughts, but thats not completely true. Apple isnt oblivious of the work that insanelymac does, and they've been fairly kind not to shut the whole thing down. Mostly everyone on their own macs as well as hackintoshes, and its just a fun hobby/past time they like to undertake. When you put out work thats done for free, you expect it to be kept free.
The fact that this work is not being profiteered on from someone else, is sad. It may have been inevitable, but it does not make it right. Think about the easiest way to shutdown Psytar.... shut down netkas, uphuck, kalyway, insanelymac, et. al, and no more Psytar.
Imagine how you would feel, if not only that someone was taking advantage of the work you distribute for free and off your time and effort, but now you are no longer allowed to do it anymore because of greedy individuals.
They are also NOT making it simple for users to use. To install, MAYBE. to use, no. There is a lot of extra maintenance that needs to be done on hackintoshes, and i don't expect the genius bar to tend to a broken hackintosh.
You've missed the whole point of "free" software. Yes, netkas has done a fantastic job of making this possible. It was *his choice* to give it away. No one made him do that, he decided to do that.
Now, how horribly hypocritical would it be for him to write a EULA (!) which forbid anyone to sell what he gives away? He would be *exactly* like Apple, while writing software to overcome Apple. Completely self-defeating.
So you can download netkas work for FREE, or you can pay the Psy folks to install it for you. Your choice, no harm to netkas, no harm to you.
i think they are charging $155 for OS x and apple charges $129. I said it on page 2, but i think if apple dings them, the easiest way is. You are not an authorized reseller of our product, you are profiting and charging unrealistic prices. Even if they drop the price to 129, they are still not authorized. I.E. handi-capped Gray Market
larrylarrylarry-
i dont think you understand intellectual property.
Beyond all the furor over OS X, what I see is a nice-looking tower with some good hardware for a really nice price.
I have one of those cases, and I'll vouch for it easily. The P18X series are some damn nice cases - if you have SATA drives and modular power. If you have standard power cabling and IDE drives, don't even think about it unless you love swearing. Newer ones have openings for water cooling passthrough, but I have the original model that just has big fans. Big, quiet fans. I can't hear my machine 2 feet to the left of me on the floor unless I listen for it.
Psystar ought to be careful about their misleading statements on their site too...
"Why spend $1999 to get the least expensive Apple computer with a decent video card when you can pay less than a fourth of that for an equivalent sleek and small form-factor desktop with the same hardware."
Last check of the Apple store said that Mac Mini's are starting at $599. What do they consider a "decent video card?"
The 900 series from intel is about as basic as a video card gets. Even if you move it back in time to 5 years ago, it's still subpar in terms of quality.
The sentence you quote is referencing a Mac Pro. There is aboslutely no video card whatsoever in the Mac Mini.
I personally hope that Psystar wins out. It's quite petty to shackle an OS to a specific hardware; i.e., only ones Apple produces, they should buy off on the Gates venture and make it available for more platforms. This, in the long-run, would net Apple a lot more cash than they're making now, just look at how rich it's made Bill!
Imagine all the cooler laptops or mobile devices you would see if anyone could design a system for the OS! Don't get me wrong, Apple makes some very nice products and of excellent quality, but this whole "buying into the Apple lifestyle" is oh so much brainwashing marketing BS. Their support is very good, but their Apple Care Plans are a bit over-priced.
i used to think the same thing. then i tried installing this on my pc. after several tries, it worked. it still works, but any maintenance is a big hassle. it's not really as easy as it sounds.
Here are a few points:
I am curious why no one has mentioned this point yet. So lets assume you buy one of these computers. Assuming that the cost of a license for OSX is factored into your cost. (ie: that Psystar is installing valid purchased copies of the OS.) I can't see why Apple would have an issue with this. They sell their software, and make their money. They don't have to support it because it violates their EULA. (One would assume Psystar will assume support responsibilities.) Heck, they don't even have to worry if they do push a patch out that breaks these machines, because the OS is being ran on unsupported hardware. I can't fathom a single reason why Apple would have an issue with this...oh, wait I know why. It might have something to do with the really pretty and expensive computer they want you to buy. I hope I do not come across as an Apple hater. I think Apples are some of the most beautifully designed pieces of computing hardware out there. Their OS is stable and easy to use. Apple makes good computers. I've long said that if you give me a mac I can play games on I'd think about it. However, let us not be naive. Apple taking an issue here really boils down to them trying to protect their monopoly. Monopoly you say? How could that be? Apple is not a monopoly. In the broad view of the computer industry certainly not. However, in the segment of the population that wants to use the Apple operating system they certainly are. It's their software on their box or nothing. All Apple is doing here is trying to protect their sales margins on their incredibly over priced hardware.
- @ amazo - isn't profiting off of the work that other people have done for free the basic premise of open source? As an example, you can go out and get Linux for free on your own, or you can buy Red Hat and get the same basic Linux except you get some support behind it. One would assume this is how things would work with these computers. Yeah, you can turn any dell into a OSX box, or you can pay a company to do it for you. This is the basis of any successful company as far as I see it. Find something people want to do and do it for them.