Xbox 360 power supply pinpointed as cause of house fire

by Darren Murph, posted Apr 19th 2008 at 9:56AM

Sure, you've heard the horror stories of faulty Xbox power cables sparking up fires in homes, but it seems the latest case involves the aforesaid console's successor: the Xbox 360. According to Little Rock, Arkansas fire department captain Jason Weaver, a 360's power cord was to blame for a blaze that injured no one (thankfully) but caused some $100,000 in property damage. Mr. Weaver asserted that the power supply was likely crammed in a tight spot with no "space to dissipate heat," and while we've certainly seen no shortage of overheating Xbox 360s, this marks the first time that we've seen high temperatures wreak havoc on more than just the machine's internals. Here's to hoping this isn't the start of a dreadful trend.

[Via Joystiq]

Filed under: Gaming

Tags: fire, microsoft, overheat, overheating, xbox 360, Xbox360

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)

Neutral

bartoron @ Apr 19th 2008 9:59AM

Power is powerful.

Neutral

Jonathan-DBOSS @ Apr 19th 2008 2:33PM

Yep, and 360 degrees of flawless destruction is a perfect example of that.

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Mark @ Apr 19th 2008 10:03AM

One incident, after being on the market over two years? Some trend.

Highly Ranked

Matt @ Apr 20th 2008 1:34PM

I beleive he said " Here's to hoping this isn't the start of a dreadful trend"

......Ass

Neutral

teej @ Apr 21st 2008 10:53AM

Here's how I see it...

Given the current status of the housing market, I've seen several cases where people are unable sell their homes and have torched their own homes just to collect insurance money and get out of their growing debt.

Now, say someone with this mentality and similar financial situation catches wind of this story. The Xbox 360 power cable is the perfect scapegoat for that certain someone. Sue MS and collect insurance money...double jeopardy ftw.

Neutral

KickAssNickD @ Apr 19th 2008 10:05AM

thats supid that guy shud have had the power brick not "crammed in a tight spot" thats just common sense good i hope the 100 grand comes out of his life savings...

Neutral

shmunky @ Apr 19th 2008 2:01PM

That's cold...

Everyone makes mistakes...

I hope they have good insurance...

This one doesn't even seem that big compared to others, so I'm not a big fan of they deserve it mentality.

Neutral

Frankenstein Black @ Apr 21st 2008 12:32PM

Oh stop! Games (and XBL) aside, the Xbox 360 hardware design IS GARBAGE!! Whatever happened to a SIMPLE CIRCUIT TRIP and shutdown when a certain temperature is reached anyways? Sure 90% of the readers of this Blog would know how to “keep it cool” but remember this is a piece of CONSUMER ELECTRONICS not GEEKWEAR!

-------
Frank Black a.k.a. LDM
Waterbending Master
http://www.eternal-champions.com/images/fb_waterbending_master.jpg

Neutral

Alex Padilla @ Apr 19th 2008 10:11AM

No one is to fault here by the owners. Microsoft clearly instructs that the 360 and power brick need to be in open areas so that they can "breathe." They didn't do that, so it's their problem. There better not be a lawsuit.

Neutral

Esat Dedezade @ Apr 19th 2008 10:15AM

I'm a 360 fanboy but I think your comment doesn't hold.

If someone in the 21st century buys an electronic product from a company like microsoft they should not expect it to catch FIRE and threaten LIVES, even if storded improperly.

I'm not talking about dunking it in water, I'm talking about insufficent ventilation.

If the power beick isn't ventilated enough, who here really thinks that it catching fire is a real possibility? You just don't expect it to (and it shouldn't) happen.

Red rings? fair enough. Overheating and breaking? Fair enough.

But life threatening? Should not happen regardless of insufficent ventilation.

Neutral

Blaktornado @ Apr 19th 2008 10:18AM

Red rings, overheating and breaking ARE life-threatening; Lack of Halo causes death.

Neutral

Andrew @ Apr 19th 2008 10:48AM

I tend to agree - Microsoft has no excuse for their power bricks to heat up to the extent of setting a house on fire.

No matter how they recommend you store it, it still should never even come close to happening. Especially considering how big it is, not everybody wants it sticking out so they'll do their best to hide it.

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Alex Padilla @ Apr 19th 2008 11:21AM

What aren't you guys understanding? When vented properly the power brick doesn't heat up to the point where it catches fire. This guy had his brick in a tightly compact spot. The expelled heat was collecting in the area, and naturally, a small area will heat up much quicker than a larger one.

It's not like this guy had his brick out in the open and it caused a fire. No, he had it in a very tight spot which raised the overall temperature of the area enough to cause a fire.

Get this through your heads: The power brick in itself is not a life-threatening device. Improper care of said brick, much like every other electronic item on the market, can cause serious risk of damage or injury. This guy didn't take care of it properly and therefore, he greatly increased the risk.

Neutral

Esat Dedezade @ Apr 19th 2008 11:32AM

I do understand your point and you are right.

It's just theres different degrees of improper use:

1.) Putting the power brick next to water: THAT is a very high level of improper use, and Microsoft are not to blame for any mishaps that occur as a result.

2.) Low ventilated area: LOW level of misproper use and let us not forget, a COMMON misproper use.

You do have a point, it's just that even if you wrapped the power brick in a towel next to a radiator, you would still expect it to NOT cause a fire.

Overheat and break yes, but fire? You would have thought that something that bad would not happen.

Either way my post further down casts my doubts on the cause of the fire anyway.

To summarise, you are correct, what you said was right, its just that no one would expect the thing to catch fire even with bad ventilation. Not in this day and age.

Neutral

Alex Padilla @ Apr 19th 2008 12:11PM

How is it not to be expected? If something that heats up isn't ventilated properly, I do expect it to catch fire. It's proper physics and thermodynamics. Any given heat in a dense area will get even hotter given the compactness and closeness of the objects. Eventually, when something gets hot enough, it will catch fire. Simple.

It's like a car. If you take care of it, nothing bad happens. If something bad happens and you took good care of it prior to, then it's the manufacturer's fault, not yours. If you don't take good care of it, and something bad happens, look no further than a mirror. It's the same with electronics, or really, ANYTHING that requires any sort of care.

He was instructed on how to take proper care of the object, yet he did not. If he had taken proper care of it and this happened, there would be a problem. But alas, he did not, and therefore, the problem is all his.

Neutral

Jon Doe. @ Apr 19th 2008 12:16PM

Yep and I've lost track of the times I had to kick myself for not keeping the power brick for my.

Laptop
Wii
HTPC
DVD Player
TIVO

In a ventilated space for fear of overheat. Look the 360 is one, if not only, product on the market who's design is so piss poor that it needs proper ventilation.
PS- And how it it not MS's fault for not designing the brick to trip an internal breaker if it overheats to a certain point? Hell shit happens. What if something fell off a TV and covered the brick?

Neutral

CraigJ @ Apr 19th 2008 12:23PM

I agree with Alex: "It's proper physics and thermodynamics" Unfortunately most people haven't a clue. Still, it is the user's fault. Personally, I unplug my 360 from the wall when I'm not using it, because I don't need to generating heat (even a very little bit) when I'm not playing the game. I've had power supplies smoke on me before, so I generally plug them into a power strip with a switch to turn them off. I don't really want to get back from a weekend trip to find a smoking hole in the ground.

Neutral

Andrew @ Apr 19th 2008 12:31PM

Alex, I understand your points but I don't agree with them.

Microsoft has a responsibility to ensure that their products are able to handle a variety of usage situations, proper or improper alike. The most that should ever happen to the power brick if stored improperly should be failure, NEVER FIRE. I can't believe you would even debate this.

Microsoft has a legal responsibility to protect their users from mishaps like this, especially if they're "reasonably foreseeable". Is it reasonably foreseeable that a user may shove this massive power brick behind their cabinet against a wall? Absolutely.

Should you put in a disclaimer telling them not to? Of course! But is it reasonably foreseeable that a user will not read the Xbox 360 manual cover to cover? 99% of users haven't, I guarantee you.

Neutral

Esat Dedezade @ Apr 19th 2008 12:33PM

Alex your point is correct. If something heats up, it caches fire.

But my point is that even in poor ventilation it SHOULD NOT GET TO THE POINT at which the heat is so great it catches fire.

Either the brick should be designed differently, or like the person above me said, cause the power to be cut after a certain temperature.

Neutral

Andir3.0 @ Apr 19th 2008 12:40PM

It's really simple. How much could a thermal shutoff circuit cost? Really. No electronic device should heat up tot he point of combustion no matter what you put it in. Or are you saying that hair dryers should remove the breaker plugs they have installed because it would be the consumers fault if they accidentally dropped it in the toilet/sink while the water was running?

Low Ranked

Alex Padilla @ Apr 19th 2008 1:07PM

Did any of you take two minutes to read the article? Oh, you didn't? Well, here you go:

"...Carl Olson take playing video games seriously...dedicating hours to it. 'The average week probably a couple of days worth that's too much,' says Olson."

So, we see that he devotes a lot of time to gaming. Fair enough, most of us here do. Will things get hot? Yes. But they won't catch fire. That's a good thing.

" 'It was melted and it looked like they had it against the wall in on edge and things like that need a little space to dissipate heat,' explains Weaver [the Fire Chief]."

Here's were things go wrong. The power brick is in a place where it is unable to dissipate heat. For what it's worth, I'll won't make any more comments, as I've already made my arguments regarding this point.

"Monday, while no one was home at the Little Rock house on the 5000 block of Cantrell Road, it caught on fire. Flames charred the interior."

WHOA! No one was home! Yet it still caught fire? One of two things happened: (1) the cord failed to cool down after the system's power was turned off, or (2) he left his 360 on while he wasn't home. The likelihood of #1 happening is far less than the likelihood of #2. However, if #1 did happen, then Microsoft is to blame, as a powerless console shouldn't have it's supply catch on fire. But, like I said, I'd bet that #2 happened, making the owner, Olson, to blame for negligent care.

Neutral

phanbouy @ Apr 19th 2008 1:09PM

ha. this thread proves that fanboyism due to marketing, hype, and cult of personality (if you consider that a corporate is a "person" legally) wins the day vs. common sense and basic empathy every time.

screw the consumer! if you don't have your gaming console on a nitrogen cooled shrine of worship, the terrorists win

Neutral

Urza @ Apr 19th 2008 1:53PM

As someone else said, how much could a thermal shutoff really cost? If I took my computer, and I covered it with the best insulations I could find, blocking all the air holes...it wouldn't combust. It'd shut off. And once it had cooled down, it'd work fine. There is no reason the power brick couldn't do the same. Especially from a company with a history of their equipment setting fires, and especially when you're cramming things that close together. I don't know of any other power brick that gets that hot. Hell, I've got powerbricks for other gaming systems that spend their lives under a pillow and barely even get warm. If it's designed so that it has a possibility of getting hot enough to combust, it should be designed to prevent that from happening. It's common sense.

Neutral

hypereric @ Apr 19th 2008 2:12PM

Esat:

I love my XBox. But that is not the reason I am about to take the "Microsoft" side on this issue and contrary to your own.

More the likely, if he had it "likely crammed in a tight spot with no "space to dissipate heat,"", then he had cord bundled up around it, or coiled beside it, as well. A 120 volt line should never be coiled back on itself... never!

As a fire inspector told me, "this should be common sense". She told me this after relating the story of a house that burnt down because the owner coiled a 120 volt extension cord inside of a closet and shut the door. If the cord had not been coiled, no problem. But when coiling it, there is some phenomena that I'm sure someone more versed in electricity can name, that causes the natural radiation given off by a 120 cord to concentrate and amplify and heat up to fire temps. Now add-in a hot transformer, and well, you get the picture.

Now take a look at the article and the third picture down on the right... I realize this is not the unit in question, but I am pretty sure that is the 120 cord-side bundled up quite nicely next to it.

I'm going with with the cord and transformer being crammed all together causing the fire. In which case, could happen to any sort of AC to DC adapter.

Neutral

hypereric @ Apr 19th 2008 2:22PM

@phanbuoy: Define projection.

Anyway, what I see is alot of people blaming MS, and a few stating that that he should have read the directions. Now I gave a plausible theory. Why don't you try it out?

Take whatever device that needs charging or uses a wall socket for power, and that you're a "phanbuoy" of, wrap the 120 side of the cord around your neck in several loops (*loosely* .. I have to add that since your reading comprehension is rather lacking), and then go to bed for the night.

Let us know how it turns out. Oh, and make sure there is current being drawn through the loops of the cord around you neck.

Neutral

phanbouy @ Apr 19th 2008 2:40PM

wow, you're awfully defensive hypericactive or whatever your name is, which is quite appropriate. anyway, glad to see you prove my point by your advocating i take my own life. you seriously should be put in a padded room.

but yeah, you called it. i'm a consumer fanboy. guilty as charged.

Neutral

phanbouy @ Apr 19th 2008 2:51PM

by the way hyperfreak, you're the worst sort of fanboy, and i'm glad you just made a national geographic worthy presentation of yourself. a deranged, fanatical, homicidal, low-self worth corporation-worshiping, attention starved faux-intellectual with gussied up middle-schooler taunts. aren't you late for a rally of some sort?

Neutral

hypereric @ Apr 19th 2008 3:11PM

@phanbouy:

Yowza! You sure do use alot of adjectives. I compliment you on your selection.

However, your logic needs a little brushing up. To wit, you accuse me of "faux-intellectual (sic)". Yet, you implicitly state that my theory does have validity, for why else would you state, "by your advocating i take my own life" or accuse me of being "homocidal"?

So which is it, phanbouy? Am I a "faux-intellectual (sic)" with a theory that is ludicrous, or does it have validity; in which case I would be "homocidal" intellectual?

Next time, try to use more nouns, and especially ones that would bolster your "case".

Neutral

Alex Padilla @ Apr 19th 2008 3:21PM

@ phanbouy

What's your level of education? Anyone even vaguely learned in government or law will tell you that a company is, in fact, considered a legal person. Under law, they are a collective entity that acts together as a single unit, much like how a human is a collection of parts (brain, heart, limbs, veins, etc) that work together as one. Therefore, companies have rights inherent in their existence and liberties granted to them by the government.

Also, I'd like to point out that you show absolutely no maturity or intelligence in your posts (as did the person you went back and forth with). Look up "ad hominem." A person who commits this fallacy loses every bit of credibility in my eyes.

So, I ask that you do two things. First, I'd like you to learn about law and government and the rights and responsibilities of both corporations and consumers. Second, you should learn how to argue your points effectively and properly while not attacking another person. It makes you seem insecure and ridiculous. Quit making a fool of yourself.

Neutral

MikeG @ Apr 19th 2008 5:02PM

Not everyone is a massive nerd like you though alex

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hypereric @ Apr 19th 2008 5:52PM

to all (rational) posters: Why don't we just test it out? I've got a small heavy-duty plastic firesafe. I would presume that a firesafe can withstand heat from the inside if it can from the outside. I could drill two holes for the cords, wrap the PSU in layers of old clothes, shut the thing up, and let my box run 24 hours, perhaps on Forza 2 (idle, the xbox draws about 125 watts AC, forza 2 I've seen it draw as much as 170 watts AC). I would just need a few things:

1) Confirmation from someone that a firesafe would hold heat in as well as it does out. This would heat up the PSU good.

2) I don't have the foggiest idea what to seal the holes with the cords passing through with... it would have to be some sort of sealent that is heat-resistant and airtight.

3) I don't mind replacing a fried and melted PSU, but come'on, if everybody's curisioty is piqued enough, I would like at least my XBox Elite to be replaced if it went bonkers if the PSU melts.

4) Would the length of power cord going into the firesafe or the one coming out, or the outlet it is plugged into, pose a danger? If so, would need some sort of workaround (I live in a 1860's loft with plenty of nice, dried out wood).

Neutral

Alex Padilla @ Apr 19th 2008 5:53PM

@ MikeG

Exactly why do you consider me to be a "massive nerd"?

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Mark L. @ Apr 19th 2008 7:59PM

There's no doubt about this that it's the owner's fault. If I block the vents on my laptop and suddenly get burned by the heat then is it HP's fault? That's idiocracy logic.

Neutral

Wwhat @ Apr 19th 2008 10:53PM

It was the DAMN CORD and there is a link to xbox.com where they mention a damn RECALL of BAD powercords.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox/console/powercordreplacement.htm

So stop talking about imaginary non-existing situations and start talking about the real case.

Neutral

CraigJ @ Apr 20th 2008 12:34AM

@What:

"No action is necessary if your console was manufactured on or after October 23, 2003." Pretty sure that the 360 came out after October 2003...

Neutral

Alex Padilla @ Apr 20th 2008 1:18AM

@ Wwhat

No, they mean the power brick. However, they writer of the article doesn't know what to call this, so he/she resorts to calling it a "cord." "Power brick" is a term for the 360's power supply that originated on the Internet in response to its massive size. Read the entire article. The writer/reporter doesn't seem too learned in (1) video games, (2) the hardware that goes along with the consoles, and (3) proper grammar, it's a pretty poorly written article.

So, no, it's not the cord itself, but the entire power supply. Read what the Fire Chief says. Cords don't dissipate heat; the power brick does.

Thanks for playing.

Neutral

Jamar @ Apr 20th 2008 10:14AM

Please tell me how hard it would be for Microsoft to include some sort of protective mechanism to say, cut off power if the brick is overheating? I'd have thought that such a thing would be included in anything liable to overheating.

Neutral

Wwhat @ Apr 20th 2008 2:31PM

The link I gave came from the article mentioned, and the powercord is referring to the internal powercord that connects to the connector that connects to the external powercord I gather.
So basically it's still the cord then eh, even if it is the bit of the cord on the inside of the brick.
And I agree it should have a thermal switch-off but even if it had or has then if the fire already started due to a short in the bit of cord before the circuitry/transformer then a switch-off won't do any good at all, you'd have a xbox that's turned off while the house burns to the ground..

I don't buy that MS would have no thermal protection whatsoever, I don't think it would get approved for sale by the FCC and I don't think MS would not realise it would open them to billions of dollars of class action settlements.
Not to mention that it doesn't pay to burn down the houses of your customers, and of course most sane people would not want the guilt either.

Neutral

Grimm @ Apr 21st 2008 1:26AM

@ Andrew and East

You two are the perfect example of an american. When something is clearly your own fault you blame someone else. You retards should seriously consider attending some schooling of any sort. LOOK AT THE GODDAMN POWER BRICK...there's f*cking vents on it. Vents mean don't wrap the damn thing in towels. Microsoft can't be held responsible if your so stupid you take your xbox, wrap it in a towel, and leave it next to the heater. You do realize that heat is the #1 cause of fire right? LMFAO...your stupidity hurts me...no I'm serious I have a headache now.

Neutral