Microsoft turns the DRM screw on MSN Music owners
By Thomas Ricker 
posted April 23rd 2008 6:46AM
posted April 23rd 2008 6:46AM
Ever wonder why we loath DRM around here as much as we do even when companies come along offering free, all you can eat deals? Well, if the Sony ATRAC debacle didn't serve as a warning there's always this: Microsoft just announced that it will no longer supply authorization keys for songs purchased from the defunct MSN Music service. That means that the PlaysForSure music you purchased will only play on your registered computers (up to 5) for as long as they shall live. As Microsoft puts it, "If you attempt to transfer your songs to additional computers after August 31, 2008, those songs will not successfully play." It's worth noting that the move also locks the registered PC into whatever OS it's running -- any major update or switch to Ubuntu for example, would kill all your music, dead. Now imagine what would happen if iTunes shuttered its store -- Steve won't be around forever you know.
This is why the only DRMed music I accept is subscription music. When the service goes down, you simply find another. You didn't lose anything you permanently paid for.
This is basically the "rent vs. buy" argument. Financially, you're better off buying anything you want to have access to long-term. Personally, I like to think that I'll have access to the music I like for as long as I want without having to go find a new service or look for an Internet connection.
I did the math, under a $15 monthly plan, it would take 10 years to make up for a 2000 song collection, plus, you have the freedom to add or switch out as much as you want. It's true that some music deserves to be owned, but I would rather have the ability to update my collection as needed within that 10 years, rather than be stuck with whatever I bought.
As much as I dislike the idea of a subscription model for listening to music, that's actually a significant plus-point for the model while DRM still exists.
It's so much more fun going to the store and buying the actual CD. Getting the album art with it and the booklet with added info.
Then just rip the CD and put it on your MP3 player/iPod.
No such thing as DRM in that world!
That's exactly what we've done some 1600 times, now. All our music is ripped from CDs we own, so (a) we have completely portable, unencumbered digital files, (b) we have (fairly) permanent physical archives, (c) we have all the album art and lyrics and other shit nobody really cares that much about, and (d) we don't support DRM -- that's gotta count for some karma points somewhere.
You and I must have very different definitions of the word "fun". The problem with the shop method is twofold. Firstly, it's not convenient, and that's the killer problem. Humans are inherently lazy, and while there are those who like the extra effort, most don't and when a solution comes along that makes things easier (even if the results are worse) then that will win. Secondly, you have to buy the entire CD in a shop, which definitely sucks if you only want to buy 1 or 2 tracks. Artists complain that this destroys an album, which is true, but then I'm the customer who is always right and they should have made an album where I wanted to buy all the tracks.
Thats kinda what their doing, dropping the DRM-store in favor for the mostly DRM-less Zune Store. There are also programs out there to strip the DRM from the songs.
Unbelieveable. Microsoft makes this stupid move and yet most of the comments here are directed against Steve Jobs and iTunes, as if Steve Jobs was personally responsible for Microsoft being a bunch of retards. I personally neither like or dislike Steve Jobs, but what's the point of blaming him for every evil in the world? So what if iTunes offers bad compressed albums for 9,99$? Do they make you buy it? Do they steal you every other opportunity to buy it somewhere else and force you to spend your hard-earned cash in their iTunes store? Not, as far as I know. If you find it's a bad practice to buy music there, then just ignore it and go for alternatives. But writing tons of unrelated comments against El Jobso and iTunes under an article about Microsoft and DRM - I really see no point in this. Yes, El Jobso is probably guilty for all the problems in your life.
Kinda sad - nobody really cares about this story as it stands, so Engadget has to say, "YEAH!!!! And what if ITUNES did this!!!!"
Sure, I'm a Mac zealot, but it's just so predictable anymore. I guess it's tough being on top, you're the target of wanna-be journalists everywhere.
You're right, it is hard being on top. You're doing all the work and eventually your legs start to cramp up or something. All the while thinking roll over or fake it already...
@ Frank Furter
Yeah, I can always spot the 'tease' in nearly every MS / Apple article - a slight jab at one company or the other which I guess is intended to draw the ire of us 'zealots'. I know I can't stop myself from clicking the link.
One interesting thing about this thread is there's an odd third factor, the PC folks and Mac folks are coming together to agree that DRM is teh suxx0r.
Kinda, but this does make you think about what would happen to an iTunes Store music collection if something were to happen to Apple. Sure, some stories definitely seem to be just trying to stoke one side or the other of very partisan people, but I think this story is genuinely thought provoking. I'm not taking it as being anti-Apple, that's for sure.
It is stupid how people will blindly follow a company (Apple) and how other people will blindly hate a company (most of engadget's readers). It amazes me because if Apple pulled a stunt like this there would be such an outcry on here that AOL would have to pull the plug. However, since it's Microsoft everyone sort of rolls over and asks for another.
Where are the torches and pitchforks? Why does nobody care that m$ is proving again they don't care about customers - they already have the money for the sold tracks, in their minds they don't have to do anything else.... Oh wait, that's right, DRM.
Thanks a lot Microsoft - may your end come swiftly and painfully.
Anyone who is stupid enough to buy music online knowing it comes with any kind of DRM has only themselves to blame. This is exactly why the music industry loves the whole Ipod and Itunes B*****s. If you want music for your MP3 player buy the CD and rip it.
Nice to see a silver disc invented in the 80s still kicking around (and still offering lossless audio), along with its new friend for modern archival, a certain Mister FLAC. http://flac.sourceforge.net
Roll on DRM. Give lossy audio with restrictions a worse name than it already has.
I agree wholeheartedly, of course, if you wanted a CD you'd actually have to PAY for it, which is also much of the problem.
I've got around 1,100 CD's in my collection, all ripped to AIFF and also 256Kbps MP3. Wouldn't have it any other way. I think I can count the number of iTunes purchases I've made on one hand. I get a kick out of hearing all these 'sneaky' users, burning an audio CD out of already crap MP3's, then converting it BACK to MP3. Heh. Hey, if they're happy with that, why not.
Personally, the problem is not DRM, or iTunes+, or whatever - it's that most artists can't produce more than one hit song in the span of 2 or 3 full-length albums. iTunes would excel even more if they offered AIFF's, I know I'd buy a ton of stuff. But I rarely buy anything new anymore for one obvious reason - it all SUCKS. I'm a rock/hard-rock fan, though, and can't buy in to every clone that comes out on FM or MTV.
In other words, record companies have created their own demise. It's greed, coupled with lack of passion. Release top-notch stuff, they will come. Sure, some will steal, but most of us will buy. Stick DRM on everything, combine that with vanilla songs, and, well, here we are.
i dont know what i would do without DRM... I love DRM... all you people are thieves... VIVA DRM!!!
suck it trebek
I hate being Lawful Good. I just hate it.
When iTunes dies, as it eventually will, I will be the laughing stock of all my friends.
I just new that being chaotic evil would one day be considered 'good'! XD
I have altered the deal . . . pray I do not alter it further
That's what you get for buying DRM. Reasons like this are why I still buy physical copies and rip them myself. That way I know it's high quality and I can play it on any mp3 capable device I want.
Nothing new there. They've already said you can't back up your music or throw it out, so is it so shocking they're saying you can't play it either?
http://impatientsufferance.com/2008/04/23/more-things-you-cant-do-with-your-music-185/
Engadget guys, don't be such hypocrites. You are not 'anti DRM'. Why else do you promote or display without any warning words whatsoever things like Vista and HDMI display? Both are defective by design (aka include DRM tech), yet no mention of that.
Maybe this bit of news will clue you in to the badness that is DRM, but you never did seem to care when the latest 30"DRM laden HDMI screen or HMDI carying videocard came out.
If I remember correctly, Apple has stated that if the iTunes store were to go away, they would do what it takes to allow you to continue to use the music, because according to their terms,you own it. It's not rented, like Microsoft just proved their music is.
Watch out Zuunnies. You're next!
Well considering that Zune Marketplace utilizes a rental system (DRM free, but not yours to keep forever) and offers high-quality DRM-free tracks, obviously MS is not limiting Zune users as they did with MSN Music users.
Plus MSN Music shut down a year or 2 ago. And did anybody you personally know ever use it?
At least it's possible to burn them on a CD, and rip them DRM free.
MS sure could have done a better job at this, but people should be looking at DRM as the bad guy, not just MS.
Burning your own CDs to a lossless codec ftw.
That's why I switched to Amazon.com and still buy CDs.
Then again, that's also the reason a LOT of people use torrents.
iTunes Plus is a nice idea, but I can't justify paying a premium when Amazon offers the same quality for less.
Pathetic. Please try not to redirect the issue with DRM. The issue here is that you trusted MS. The monopoly thats is allowed to continue their monopolistic ways. User and MS partners were "playedfersure". What an embarrassment for their users.
The issue at hand is DRM. Microsoft screwing MSN Music users (were there even any?) by dropping support is a clear EXAMPLE of the implications that DRM can have on a user.
I also like how you claim MS is still a monopoly, despite competition growing everywhere in the world of technology. Tell me something an area that MS has a complete panhandle on, and where all these users are being oppressed. Because I bet anything you can point out, will have an alternative of some kind. Nobody forces you to use MS-tech.
Thanks for turning this story into MS-hate. It's about how DRM can hurt users, and MS is just one such example. I felt the same way when I tried switching from iPod to Zune, and discovered that many of my iTunes tracks were locked for iPod only. It took quite awhile burning/ripping those CD's.
Impossible. Simply impossible to get you to understand what monopoly means. You actually refuse to believe that? How incredulous of you to do so. Still your pathetic antics to try and redirect the issue is useless. You support MS, companies supported MS and they were royally screwed. Based on your response, you support that also. Pathetic. I hope the Zune and its marketplace has some marginal success in the long run. I would hate to have more consumers screwed over again. But that would not be a problem with you. You wholeheartedly support this behavior. Your just a notch below mszunefan. Keep up the good work and you may equal him soon. :-)
The problem I have with Microsoft for this story is that they don't appear to be offering any compensation for the loss incurred by customer despite the fact that they paid to "own" the music downloaded. If they can't offer a solution that enables their customers to continue using their music as normal (e.g. arranging that they can download the tracks from a still operational service), then they should offer financial compensation, particularly if the number of users is small. From a PR perspective this is another mess that would have been cheap to resolve.
There is some sort of abandonment issues going on over there at Microsoft. Everything they do seems to end up as a Bob or a work in progress. C'mon!
They are absolutely correct to ask about iTunes given the fact that it is the largest purveyor of digital music (and apparently music in any form) in the world. What would happen if . . . well. . . something happened and the iTunes store shuddered its doors. I am sure folks buying MS Music (or whatever it is called) did not really think through the long-term "what ifs". They just thought that MS is a large company and so their investment in this new digital music thing is safe. Now look. . .
With iTunes, even if it is a DRM tune, I can still burn a CD from it.
If you're NOT making playable CD or DVD backups of your music, then you're an idiot who deserves to lose all your purchases. The function is built right in. All you need to do is select a playlist, put in blank media, and click "burn."
I have all my iTunes music backed up as CDs, and a few compilation DVDs as well. Why wouldn't you do it? It's part of the functionality of iTunes. It's Apple's way of getting around their DRM woes, and the tracks sound good when converted for CD (that's because Apple uses AAC, which is twice the quality of a comparable-sized MP3).
I assume the MSN Music can be burnt, too. So DO it.
AAC twice the quality of a comparable MP3? That is certainly debatable.
What does that mean for services like Rhapsody? Don't they still use play it for sure?
Lamer than rootkits
"Plays For Sure" reveals once again the extraordinary irony of its name.
Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake." - Natural Born Killers
I have no empathy for those who wish to perceive Microsoft's intentions as customer-oriented.
/
When music services with DRM first came out, I raised this issue. Since then several have failed with precisely the same problem. Years ago, I started buying only DRM free music or music for which there was a program to strip the DRM (the only exception was when Rhapsody had a 49 cent a song sale--in that case, I just burned CDs and re-ripped them--despite claims by self-proclaimed audiophiles, I doubt they could hear the difference on most.) Now, I buy only from Amazon.com (which still doesn't have The Who.)
The thing is this: I used to be afraid of DRM because if the store that I bought it from went out of business, then I was out of my music.
I'm really scared of DRM now because Microsoft didn't go out of business... they just changed their minds and business model. Not even as dramatic as going out of business, and I'm still out of being able to enjoy the music.
*sigh*
Several more years until this is straightened out and then we'll have this issue with video files....
bondsbw, if you have your Windows pc built by a local shop, then it will be much cheaper than an Apple or Dell. And it will have better specs with the same high quality parts. I never buy "big guy/pre-built" pc's anymore because they are such a rip-off. I had a gaming pc built two years ago for over $1600. A Dell XPS with a much smaller hard drive and lesser video card cost nearly $2500. So, yes Macs (and Dells) are over-priced. Now if Apple allowed small shops to legally build Mac clones, then the story might be different.
Seriously, if I wanna backup my music collection I wanna do it to another HD or a flash drive, not to a whole bunch of CDs. Keeping ripped CDs around is annoying.
Without mentioning the loss of quality.
No DRM for me, in any circumstance.
I am streaming my music collection of new and established artist. The new artis are required to sign a release form which covers Soundexchange, BMI, SESAC, ASCAP. The audience can only down load or purchase the new and orginial stuff from our site. However, we stream old established artis to compare the new and up and coming. How would the DRM change effect our streaming?