Border Patrol's virtual fence canceled for not being as good as a fence

The last we heard of DHS's "Project 28" plan to build a 28-mile stretch of virtual fencing along the US / Mexico border in Arizona, it had been postponed until at least 2011 because the towers didn't quite work. Well, it appears that on further review, the system is even more of a total failure, and it's being scrapped entirely: according to Kelly Good, deputy director of the administration's Secure Border Initiative program, Project 28 "hasn't come close" to meeting Border Patrol's goals. Tests of the virtual fence didn't lead to nearly as many arrests as designers had hoped, and the lag from sensor detection to transmission of an image to border agents was apparently a big part of the problem. Boeing, which won the $860M contract to build the system, is now being told to replace it all with upgraded towers, but there's no word on when that's happening or what it'll cost taxpayers on top of the $20M already paid out. We're expecting trillion-dollar chain-link bids to come rolling in any day now.

[Funke, Tobias Dr. @ Apr 24th 2008 1:06AM]

It seems like every month there is a story about some failed project where millions have already been spent. I'd like to see some federal investigations into the people who greenlight these projects to see if they are getting kickbacks. At the very least, it would make others think twice before giving the go-ahead. Who likes audits/investigations after all?

To paraphrase Dwight: "Better a thousand innocent men are locked up than one guilty man roam free."

[Genuis Bartender @ Apr 24th 2008 7:57AM]

You're suggesting there's corruption in America? Noooo, that only happens in Africa.

[UKNigel @ Apr 24th 2008 10:54AM]

Ron Paul would have none of that madness.

[nd @ Apr 24th 2008 11:06AM]

Just man the towers with these guys:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/04/24/blaser-tournament-japanese-robots-battle-with-laser-beams/

[Owen @ Apr 24th 2008 1:07AM]

I guess they just couldn't get sustainable brain hemorrhaging frequencies working properly, ala Lost.

[Craig @ Apr 24th 2008 1:12AM]

Dwight is an idiot. Your sense of justice is childish. How would you like to be one of those innocent thousand? Asswipe

[Funke, Tobias Dr. @ Apr 24th 2008 4:47AM]

Normally my humour isn't lost on Engadget readers. Just for you though, next time I'll make it painfully obvious that I'm joking.

[Cellenin @ Apr 24th 2008 1:13AM]

Your tax dollars at work folks. Just think about it...these are the same people that wish to give us "Free Healthcare".

[hacp @ Apr 24th 2008 1:33AM]

Actually, they are different people. Its the republicans who rallied for the virtual fence. The democrats want to give us Universal Health Care, which is working perfectly fine in Europe and Canada.

[TulsaBaller88 @ Apr 24th 2008 2:18AM]

Free health care comes with its negatives as well.

There is a reason many Canadians come to America every year when they need something like a kidney quick. When you implement free health care, you simultaneously lower the average quality of health care and you also extend waiting lists into oblivion.

Im not saying the fence is any better of an idea, Im just saying theres two sides to every issue, I think more than anything we need economic relief, and a nationwide push for getting off oil so much and onto something more efficient and ideally, self sufficient.

[mac @ Apr 24th 2008 2:18AM]

I guess our definitions of perfectly fine are a little different, but I do agree it is cheaper by an order of magnitude.

Also, if you want the government to stop funding programs that don't pan out, you'd have to stop the government from funding anything new. That sounds like a great way to foster economic growth.

[hacp @ Apr 24th 2008 2:33AM]

There was no progress in this "virtual fence". Boeing was using last decade's technology to build the fence while charging the US at a prime rate. Anyone with half a brain could tell that this project was an invisible subsidy by Boeing championed and won through their lobbyists.

[kyoseki @ Apr 24th 2008 1:30AM]

Asylum seekers are willing to try to cross 20 miles of the English
channel for a chance at a better life.

Cubans are willing to cross a hell of a lot more than that for the same thing.

... and they think a fence is going to stop people from coming?

Short of a remake of the Berlin wall, I really can't see it being a
deterrent.

[Dave @ Apr 24th 2008 9:13AM]

Um, unless my geography is screwed up isn't the englidh channel only 12 across?

[kyoseki @ Apr 24th 2008 2:06PM]

Depends on where you cross, but a couple of idiots on an inflatable mattress tried to swim across the wider part of it a few years ago.

They were unsuccessful.

[linoge @ Apr 24th 2008 1:31AM]

wonder what he would say if he was one of the thousand innocent men
still thats one of dumbest thing i have ever heard

[Funke, Tobias Dr. @ Apr 25th 2008 2:22AM]

Since you also didn't reply to my comment, see my reply to the dimwit above you.

[Joshua K @ Apr 24th 2008 1:53AM]

Ever see "So I married an Ax Murderer" ?

"That's the artificial horizon, which is better than the actual horizon"

So funny in the same way

[Bill @ Apr 24th 2008 2:05AM]

So...we put a man on the moon in what, six years? Won WWII in 4? And can't build a fence? Face it folks, neither the treasonous Democrats nor the gutless Publicans want to build a fence. The Pubs want cheap labor, and the Dems ready-made life-long Dem voters.

Just read that every illegal man, woman, and child in the US costs 9K annually in cash assistance, bennies, and education. So a family of 4 costs 36K. Per year. But hey, they just want a better life; and they work oh so hard, depressing unskilled wages...doing the jobs that you won't do. See, since you are so worthless and lazy, that's why they come here. It is your fault or so says Emperor Bush.

Current polls show that 70% of Americans want the border closed, and no amnesty for illegals...but our so-called elites stopped giving a sh*t about what the hoi polloi wanted long ago.

[hiko36 @ Apr 24th 2008 2:13AM]

Thats probably the most stereotypical comment I have ever heard. You ever stop to think that a good percentage of illegals aren't getting wellfare? That a good percentage are actually working their asses off so at the end of the year the gov can go "Yeah, you worked for it but I dont think you deserve those tax returns." I know many many many illegals and there life ain't easy, bub. There are always bad eggs in every bunch. I mean, come on, we got you right???

[Dave @ Apr 24th 2008 3:10AM]

Seventy percent of Americans wanted to feel "safe", too. That's why the government has taken away your rights.

In case you haven't noticed, here are some "problems" we pay through the nose to be "solved" by government:

1) Safety ( = rights reduction)
2) Education ( = stupid kids)
3) Drug enforcement ( = wealthy drug dealers)
4) Immigration ( = higher taxes + rights reduction)
5) Gay marriage (heard anything about that one lately? No? Well, this country re-elected George Bush on that BS)

Stop putting your trust in government. They're not going to save you. The less they do the better. Work hard. Keep your money. Vote Libertarian. Stop making excuses.

Should have given all that money to the Mexicans. I'm sure they would have stayed in Mexico for 860mil--as long as it's in Euros.

[hiko36 @ Apr 24th 2008 4:46AM]

I spelled "their" wrong. My bad. Didn't want to give anyone another reason to bash me.

[Bill @ Apr 24th 2008 2:27AM]

@hiko

I can see you know less than nothing about this situation. You should do some reading, peruse Amazon for starters. Do you really think that an illegal is pulling in an income sufficient to pay Fed Taxes? Really?

They cross the border and the next day become what, Linux programmers? Air Traffic Controllers? Dentists? Are you really so lacking in reasoning you think just because you work hard, you are entitled to be a US citizen?

Do you even have one clue what a tax refund is? Get out a dictionary and look up refund...if you've paid no money in, how can you get a refund? The Earned Income Tax Credit is a pretty name for welfare, or transfer payments from those that do pay Fed Taxes, to those that do not.

Your knee-jerk cries of stereotyping - yawn. I'm sure your professor will give you a pat on the head like a good little doggy for spotting the mean man who will not sing the praises of illegal immigrants. Honestly, and I'm not trying to offend, but I really hope you are either under the age of 22 or a ward of the state. Otherwise, well, I feel genuinely sorry for you.

[Nastro @ Apr 24th 2008 2:37AM]

@ Bill "hiko36" is the usual bleeding heart liberal that doesnt know the whole truth of the matter or even care to. They are too addicted to the Koolaid of liberalism to see the real world in front of them.

[hiko36 @ Apr 24th 2008 4:42AM]

Let me start off by saying that I dont want anything I say to be taken personally. If I offend, I apologize. I do however have legitimate beliefs that have some factual basis... How many illegals do you honestly know?? I know illegals that make 60,000 a year. That sound like petty cash to you?? I also know an illegal who makes 30,000 a year. Not quite as fat a figure but still pretty good for someone who is single and only a year out of High School, no? I don't believe they should be given immediate citizenship, but I do believe it should be taken on a case by case basis. Some people were also brought here as a child and have known nothing else but America( I know one of those also). Should he be penalized and sent back to a country that he knows nothing of?

[zorg @ Apr 24th 2008 7:54AM]

@Bill,

I'm sorry you're an idiot and stuff. Oh well.

Illegal immigrants pay an estimated $16 Billion / year in taxes. That's not in dispute. What the gasbags on talk radios can't agree on and don't bother to study in any quantitative way is how much money they suck up in "services." Estimates there range very widely among people (not you) who do any homework at all.

Closing the border sounds simple to people who don't live there and can't be bothered to check the numbers. I lived there when the border traffic was slowed to a trickle in late 2001 and people on my side (USA) suffered economically. We used to make a lot of money on Mexican tourists. Gonesky. Turns out that rich Mexicans don't like to combine weekend shopping with proctological exams. Who knew?

[UKNigel @ Apr 24th 2008 11:00AM]

You guys might be interested in reading this article:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43275

Some good points in there. It's been 5 years since 2003, and many more hospitals in California alone have been forced to close due to illegal immigrants. It's not right.

[cjgunit @ Apr 24th 2008 3:10AM]

Yes, most illegal aliens are hard working people who want a better life. Does that give them the right to come here illegally? If i rob a bank just to feed my family, should I not get punished for it? Obviously, the bank robbery is the worst crime of the 2, but they are both crimes.

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Apr 24th 2008 4:46AM]

Yeah, except robbing a bank is actually bad

Being a US citizen isn't. You're not damaging anyone or anything.

This comment will get low ranked for sure, but because you never asked for my opinion, here's it:

I think the simple fact that you born, gives you the right to exist wherever you want on this earth. Only stupid people thinks that the government actually owns the physical earth they're stepping in. No, the earth existed way before the gov't did, and everyone was free to live wherever...

Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT telling that illegals should get tax refund/healthcare or whatever, because one thing is to be a citizen and another is to live in X place... But I find this "hunt the illegal" thing pretty ridiculous.... I'm (proudly) Mexican, and needless to say, I'd not live in the US of A even if they invited me, and I'd frag the gov't buildings any day, just for being a$$es.... Don't get me wrong again, I'd live with Americans, but not in America...

PS. Sorry for the bad grammer, it's 2:56am and I'm half asleep/half awake... "Asleep" is the bigger half...

[waltja26 @ Apr 24th 2008 7:53AM]

@ DarkLightConnection

Awesome! So you don't mind if I crash on your couch for a couple of years? Great! Hey, is that the fridge over there? Sweet!

[veyr0n @ Apr 24th 2008 4:53PM]

Millions of dollars are sent back to families by mexicans illegally working here, thats a known "problem" if you want to call it that. What gives USA the right to get McDonalds, Wal*Mart, Burger King, Ford, Chevrolet, Colgate, Energizer, Bic, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper.... How many Billions of dollars are coming this way?

There are definitely sides to this, but somewhere in the middle of the dessert a man is scared of dieing of dehydration because his government failed him... How can you blame him for trying? If Canada was better (lol) than US, Don't you think that Americans would try to get on the other side of the border too?

Just my .02.

[linoge @ Apr 24th 2008 3:16AM]

tell me on of you who have actually spoken or work
next to an illegal ?
how do you know one is not readying this right now

for the most part the only thing you guys seam to know
is what your parents told you or what you see on tv
you have no real idea what the situation is

[MattyG @ Apr 24th 2008 4:48AM]

sonic fences ala Lost.... that's what we need :D

[cjgunit @ Apr 24th 2008 5:17AM]

Darklightconnection Unbanned: the government may not own the land, but they have been charged with protecting it and part of that means they need to know who is in the country. The United States will accept anyone from any country here, just as long as they do it legally.

[DarkLightConnection Unbanned @ Apr 24th 2008 5:39AM]

I understand that in other cases, like the bank robbery... But, exactly how are illegals a special threat? An average legal American can set off a bomb or rob a bank just as easily, don't you think?

They don't need to know who's in just to protect the land....

But, let's suppose they do need to. Exactly how does this justify charging you several hundred dollars just to be there legally?

[waltja26 @ Apr 25th 2008 3:19PM]

@ DarkLightConnection ... again...

The Government exists to protect commerce and it's citizens. The citizens pay a fee, kinda like an chamber of commerce or association fee, to be a part of that group and reap the benefits of the structure and resources available.

Now the way I see it, by paying my dues, I'm kinda like in this special club. If you're not paying your dues and not contributing anything to the system, only sapping it, why should we let you in?

[frankXchange @ Apr 24th 2008 6:15AM]

I thought the virtual fence was just supposed to keep out Mexican mimes (you have to imagine a hundred mimes being blocked by an invisible fence).

[frankXchange @ Apr 24th 2008 6:21AM]

You'd have to build another great wall of China, and hire thousands of people. The only people willing to work for what you can afford are Mexicans, of course, but it would keep them all employed for a very long time. It would also bankrupt America, and the newly rich Mexicans would then need it to control illegal immigration from the USA.

[cjgunit @ Apr 24th 2008 7:28AM]

It is a lot harder to get explosives and other weapons here than in some other country where they either don't have the power or the will to enforce these kinds of laws. Also, do you really not see the danger in allowing an unlimited amount of unknown people come into the country unchecked? Terrorists, drug smugglers, these people are already problems as it is with the border patrol there.

[hiko36 @ Apr 25th 2008 3:34AM]

am I the only one who remembers the fact that the 9-11 terrorists tried to come in through Mexico but failed? Last I checked they made it through Canada though...

[Cory @ Apr 24th 2008 8:46AM]

In America when something doesn't work you get your money back... right?

[h8rain @ Apr 24th 2008 9:29AM]

If they really want to keep people from crossing I have an idea.

Lexan(?) bulletproof plastic.

40 foot in height (20 feet is buried and 20 feet is above ground). The top of wall is round or some sort, so a rope hook could not grab hold. The wall is bulletproof, can't be melted (not easily to my knowledge), it would be a huge pain to dig under.

Yes this would be hugely expensive, but I would think very effective.

What a lot of people don't realize is a large portion of the "illegal" people in America came here on legitimate visas that expired and they just stayed. No matter how effective a wall is, it doesn't matter. Personally I think the border crossing is over sensationalized. I don't have any real numbers, so I could be wrong.

[Slavetolust @ Apr 24th 2008 10:06AM]

How Fucking Hard is it to just build a 20' High Concrete Wall. Pay a few mexicans with the promise of citizanship. Problem Solved!

[imatt @ Apr 24th 2008 10:59AM]

No kidding. 20' tall concrete wall lined with razorwire > any illegal.

[aphoric @ Apr 24th 2008 1:00PM]

I used to work for Boeing and Lockheed before that, it is just a huge middle class social program. For every developer there are 3 managers and 5 other people who do nothing. Design decisions are purely political or strategic to get more work and more money.

[JAG @ Apr 24th 2008 1:44PM]

Getting back on topic I would have to say that it was a very stupid idea from the beggining. Would you put an electronic fence around a jail or a "real" fence?? If you have millions of people willing to do whatever to get into the US do you think that an electronic fence will work? Why not build electronic fences at airports and nuclear plants??? Heck, put one around the White House first for 1 year and, if it works then put it at the border. That would be cheaper than doing 28 miles.

[Frankenstein Black @ Apr 24th 2008 3:27PM]

Screw the fence! Everyone should realize by now that the “debacle” in IRAQ IS not really a debacle at all but A CLEVERLY CRAFTED 14th street, 3 card Monty, “SHELL GAME”! And its all done with your money (rob from the middle class tax payers and give to your no bid pals, then stick it to the kids and grandkids by borrowing from China) NICE!!

Guess what else? The old guard Clintonite Dems want their piggy little turn at the troff too (the neocons showed them the way)! Why do you think billary is fighting so hard to keep the close door promise they have made over the past 8 years! A president Hillary Clinton would be the DEMOCRATIC VERSION OF George Bush, PERIOD!!

[LM @ Apr 24th 2008 5:45PM]

Slavetolust, imatt, Forget a free standing concrete wall. Just use the millions of old sea cargo containers that we have due to the trade deficit with China. http://www.investorgeeks.com/articles/2006/08/03/living-in-boxes-china%E2%80%99s-trade-deficit-affordable-housing-solutions/

Heck many of them are already in the desert near the border. Just stack them 4 high, burying the first one then weld them together cut a few holes in the tops and bottom and fill with rocks or concrete. You then have a double walled 24' steel wall that is 8' thick. If a section is damaged or breached just cut out the containers and replace them with new ones.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipping_container

Remember boys and girls: Renew, Reuse, Recycle... oh and protect the sovereignty of the United States of America, the greatest country in the world.

[Leandro Almeida @ Apr 24th 2008 6:27PM]

Ohhh, it doesn't work well or its NORTH AMERICA UNION" agenda??? wake up, the progect was interrupted because the goal is to open the borders even more, with mexico, canada.