MIRA's H4V 'plugless plug-in hybrid' is surprisingly clever

We're surprised this hasn't been though up before, which means it probably isn't as simple as it sounds. MIRA's got a new plug-in hybrid in the works that skips the whole plug aspect. Instead of plugging the whole car into an outlet, you can pull out any of the three battery packs in the trunk and hook 'em into the wall. That means the car doesn't have to have direct access to a plug to be able to juice up, you just take the batteries to where the power's at and commence charging. They're calling the system H4V, and are powering the unit on lithium ion phosphate batteries. MIRA expects the retrofit to an existing car to cost about £2000 (around $3950 US).

[zorkon65 @ Apr 24th 2008 11:51PM]

this is very nice, cant wait to get this into more cars, and mushrooshi, your a troll, go away

[OneLove @ Apr 25th 2008 1:47PM]

How about a built in, automatic arm that just finds the outlet and plugs itself in at night. Those batteries must be heavy.

[cmonkey @ Apr 24th 2008 11:57PM]

It's not that it hasn't been thought of, it's just not a great idea.

It's inconvenient to have to yank out three heavy battery packs, plug them in somewhere, and then drag them back.

It's also far more expensive to have 3 separate lithium ion chargers than just having one for the whole car.

[Darwin @ Apr 25th 2008 12:57AM]

Right and wrong.

Of course it's been thought of before. But how is it a bad idea? What if I told you I had an idea for a vehicle where you had to put 15 gallons worth of volatile liquid into it if you wanted it to go anywhere? Impractical, right?

That's what service stations and service station attendants are for. It is also a great way to aggregate power reserves. All one needs are standardized battery packs and pump-less 7-11's that want to "go green".

[cmonkey @ Apr 25th 2008 1:12AM]

Darwin, I'm not complaining about the ideal replacable battery pack, I'm complaining about this implementation of it.

It is just overly complex and expensive to have the charging circuit in the replacable part of it.

Ideally, it would be a single battery pack accessible from the outside of the car, and it would contain only the cells and some protection circuitry. The consumer could then plug the car, containing charging circuitry, into in outlet, or could go to some station to have the battery swapped.

This still raises the question of whether there could ever be a battery swapping infrastructure. The unlikelyhood of a standard emerging, and the expense of storing that many batteries are huge problems, among others.

[Cycomachead @ Apr 25th 2008 1:25AM]

Of course, Ideally, you could simply leave the batteries in the car an charge the thing should you need to.

I like the idea of 3 separate batteries because: It's a bit redundant while driving, the ability to charge 1 pack at a time.


But will this only work for current hybrids or could I put this in a regular car? If it's the 2nd that'd be awesome, especially for the price. And if it's the first would it be additional power or replacement power?

Still a neat thing.

[Josh Warner @ Apr 25th 2008 1:38AM]

Darwin, you're missing a fundamental problem with all current battery technologies. With current technology, service stations don't exist - the batteries would be slowly charged at either end of a trip.

A couple reasons for this: all batteries give off heat when charging. Ever touched your phone when it's charging? That phone charges in, say, 90 minutes (and mobile phones have some of the best battery tech out there). Now multiply that heat several thousandfold if you want ONLY a 90 minute pit stop at a service station. Ouch, I guess heat sinks will be the new fashion statements of choice on vehicles! Not a good alternative.

Moving further along, let's assume that an absolutely perfect battery is developed - no loss during charging, so no heat dissipation is required (this is impossible for all sorts of reasons, but bear with me). Now the service station has to provide the power to charge the car. For reference, the Tesla Roadster has a reported energy of 53 kW*h - for a 90 minute charge at 240 V, the station has to supply a staggering 150 amps during that entire time, for EACH vehicle. And you thought California had brownout issues...

Oh, you want a 10 minute stop? Multiply that by 9. Higher voltages at the pump make this slightly better, but still - for a reasonable charging stop at a station with an electric car, you would have to have on the order of one thousand amps flowing and a perfect battery. We aren't there, and may never be.

The only way to make these work is to 'trickle' charge them overnight (still with very high amperages/power flowing in, but not insane amounts) and have large enough ranges that no charges are required during the day.

[Dan @ Apr 25th 2008 4:09AM]

This is most certainly not a new concept. Replaceable batteries are the main idea behind Project Better Place -- the electric vehicle network to be deployed in Israel by 2011. Plans for Denmark have also been announced recently.
http://www.projectbetterplace.com/

[ikitt @ Apr 25th 2008 9:36AM]

@ josh warner,

Darwin's post wasn't implying that you would go sit at a station and wait for your battery to charge, instead he suggested having a standardized battery where you would just switch your old used battery for a new battery that had been trickled charged by the service station. I assume in his idea this would be something like the way propane tanks work in the United States. You pay a premium for your first tank and then after that you bring in your old used tank and trade it in for a new filled tank (paying for the gas and a nominal charge for their filling of the tank). The difference is of course, current battery technology only has so many charges on a cell but steel tanks can always hold the same amount of propane. So I don't know if this will work anytime soon but nice idea, maybe for that air car that's never going to come out....

[Rocketboy @ Apr 25th 2008 10:44AM]

I can just see the general public clambering to fill up their hatch with large metal boxes with danger stickers and giant cooling fans on them.

[benjasmine @ Apr 25th 2008 10:50PM]

You didn't get the point. The point of having removable batteries is that you will have more freedom of where to recharge your batteries! You can recharge them in your room, at your friend's house, in a hotel room, etc...

So is it important? Yes! Because you will have flexibility. A built-in battery pretty much means that you will need an extension cord connects from the car to an outlet in your own garage.
But...
- what if you don't have a garage? For example, you live in an apartment where you have to park your car in the parking lot or on the street?
- what if your garage is filled with junks and you can't park inside?
- what if you have a garage, but you are traveling with your car to another city or state and you need to recharge your batteries in a motel/hotel?
These are just a few examples. Now you probably can think of tons of scenarios like that.

If you cannot recharge your batteries in your garage, that means you will need an outdoor outlet. So can you always find one? it is safe to just leave your car outside for recharging? Will your power cord still be there the next morning? Or maybe someone just wants to play a joke on your by unplugging the plug and leave in on the floor.

It maybe inconvenient to take 2 or 3 battery packs out, but it's better than getting your power cord stolen, and way better than unable to find a outlet. And if you have a garage, you probably can just leave the trunk door open and battery packs inside to recharge. You might need to modify the light in the trunk, so they aren't always on when the trunk is opened.

[SFO Kevin @ Apr 24th 2008 11:58PM]

How many lazy assed Americans will lift those things in and out of their trunk? The world continues to warm...

[robert @ Apr 25th 2008 1:37AM]

Why must there be so many comments about fat or lazy Americans? I'm pretty sure other countries have fat and lazy people too; let's show them some love for a change.

[matthew @ Apr 25th 2008 6:33AM]

you're last great idea to stop global warming must have been enough to justify your smug attitude... was was that idea again?

[frankXchange @ Apr 24th 2008 11:58PM]

Did they mention how much they would weigh? I'm guessing they're a bit heavier than the average laptop battery. It could be a win-win, - you can get those muscular arms you've wanted while helping the environment.

[giuliop @ Apr 25th 2008 5:48AM]

Or maybe you could help the enivronment while enjoying a hernia and a broken back.

[kev @ Apr 25th 2008 6:45AM]

Or you can help the environment by not driving in the first place. Slip on those sneakers and walk/bike somewhere for once, especially if it's really nearby. As for the suburbs...well Robert Moses wanted you all to be car-whores.

Technology alone isn't going to solve consumption and supply problems. People need to do their part too.

[Nate @ Apr 25th 2008 10:00AM]

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea has never installed a standard rack mounted UPS.

[Byzil Mystwing @ Apr 25th 2008 12:06AM]

Danger! High Voltage!

[Draaaainage! @ Apr 25th 2008 1:52AM]

When we kiss! When we touch!

[Christian G @ Apr 25th 2008 12:16AM]

Hello back pain!

[Brian @ Apr 25th 2008 12:17AM]

bet these are going to get stolen a lot

[peshue @ Apr 25th 2008 12:20AM]

Nothing like lugging 200 pounds of batteries inside every time you come home.

[Homeboy @ Apr 25th 2008 2:20AM]

I would love to see Nicole Richie dragging one those to her car on a daily basis.

Reads on the package: John Cena not included.

[SimonRichards @ Apr 25th 2008 12:23AM]

O Rly?

[shareef777 @ Apr 25th 2008 12:24AM]

Which brings up the issue of plug-in electric vehicles for owners of apartments, town homes, or anyone else that doesn't have a garage. How/where will you be able to plug in your vehicle?

[Che @ Apr 25th 2008 12:33AM]

Apartment owners and garages could probably be persuaded/forced to provide charging spots. Some lots already do. The electricity is pretty cheap and, at least while there aren't many electric or plug-in hybrid cars out there, the PR can be worth the cost.

[MARSHAK @ Apr 25th 2008 12:24AM]

dammit, who let 4chan in here?

[Earl Jr. @ Apr 25th 2008 3:24PM]

nobody. they invited themselves to the party.

[motorer @ Apr 25th 2008 12:24AM]

yeah those "battery packs" are comically huge.

[BradVT @ Apr 25th 2008 12:40AM]

You can still have a plug in on the car if you didn't want to lug the batteries, this will just serve as another option. If you could afford it you could even have a spare set of batteries that you could swap out once the set in the car run out and still keep driving.

[Pineapple @ Apr 25th 2008 12:42AM]

Instead of current systems taking up part of our trunk, now it's taking up our whole entire trunk.

[Mark @ Apr 25th 2008 12:47AM]

interesting concept, but isn't it just a *tad* easier *just* to plug in the car?

[digitallysick @ Apr 25th 2008 12:53AM]

I like the idea that they can unplug and charge someone (maybe in case of an emergency you would have options) but don't see it as a daily task

[jamesFF @ Apr 25th 2008 12:59AM]

It is so much easier to carry three 50lb batery packs than one 10lb extension cord.

[dannythepetrock @ Apr 25th 2008 12:59AM]

missed a t on thought in the first sentence. tut tut.

[aj @ Apr 25th 2008 1:00AM]

its called an extension cord people. give me a break.

[ElecNginr @ Apr 25th 2008 1:02AM]

Why not just put an inductive coil on the garage floor that the car could park on top of? That would also be plugless!

[RD. @ Apr 25th 2008 1:07AM]

I have some serious doubts that my GF would be able to lift these out of the trunk and I have no doubt that I'm too lazy to lift them out.

The DANGER signs just add to the fun, making a leaking window an adventure and an annoyance.

[BillyBones @ Apr 25th 2008 1:15AM]

I would simply use my propane forklift to take them in and out.

[nxtiak @ Apr 25th 2008 1:16AM]

What's the specs on those car pcs?

[matt @ Apr 25th 2008 5:41AM]

Dont worry they have 4gb SSDs and intel atom processors... they wont need charging often.

[saunajunkie @ Apr 25th 2008 1:44AM]

lithium ion phosphate batteries? so this is kind of like a huge ipod nano battery? and it's right behind your head?

[Draaaainage! @ Apr 25th 2008 1:56AM]

BOOOM! Headshot!

[lens42 @ Apr 25th 2008 4:10AM]

To correct the original post, these batteries are *not* "lithium ion phosphate". They are "Lithium iron phosphate" (LiFeSO4) and are said to be much safer than lithium-ion. They are currently used in Dewalt and Black & Decker power tools.

[Draaaainage! @ Apr 25th 2008 1:54AM]

In my neighborhood, you leave an extension cord out and it is gone by morning. I don't like the idea of walking to the dealer to pay 1500 for a new OEM extension cord.

[Draaaainage! @ Apr 25th 2008 1:55AM]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand this was supposed to be a reply to AJ. You would think a tech blog would have a working comment system.

[matt @ Apr 25th 2008 5:44AM]

oh yeah sure blame it on the PHP :P

[SuperDre @ Apr 25th 2008 3:30AM]

I guess with 'retrofitting' they mean an electric car with a direct plugin, not a gasoline car... Otherwise for $3950 I would do it immediatly..

[matt @ Apr 25th 2008 5:35AM]

I would bet that gasoline cars will never be retrofitted to hybrids except perhaps by enthusiasts or a company that quickly goes out of business....

A hybrid is a very different beast than a gas vehicle. It would cost close to what a honda civic hybrid does to retrofit a gas powered civic to be a hybrid in my estimation.

Where my plug-in prius's at, Dog?