Such nicely underpowered machines at way too much $$
And people still buy that crap, tjeez...
Just built a comp for my bro : E6600, 2GIG DDR2 800mHz RAM, SLI abit mobo, 8800gt 512mb, 320GB HD, DVD burner, keyboard+mouse(logitech), 20" TFT acer....and all the other usual bells and whistles.
800$
Yes i did assemble it myself but hell...double the performance for 1/3rd price? Thank you very much indeed.
And you're willing to pay $1400 more for a few hidden wires and an all-in-one machine you can't even upgrade yourself (barring RAM and hard drive, of course)? I'd take Michel's $800 over this iMac any day. Nothing a few zip ties and wire enclosures couldn't fix.
You ask any average guy out there on the street, ask him which one he will choose.
Most will go with the iMac, they don't need such power and tend to put looks over performance. Plus, they would crap themselves if you told them to upgrade the Random Access Memory, they don't need to upgrade. And those on Engadget don't really count for the majority of the people.
Seriously... Every time i use Windows on Parallels the damned thing makes me restart for "critical updates," and I'm rudely reminded about why I made the switch. Part of the problem, admittedly, is that Apple comes off as so elitist that it makes DIYers and gamers see red, which is understandable, but you really do get a lot for your money. I couldn't even think about not having Front Row, iChat, and iMovie, plus you can get a ton of freeware programs that are fully functional (Quicksilver, Shakespeer, and Transmission (also on Linux) for example). For Windows, every little utility costs money or bugs you for it on a splash screen, and most don't work quite the way you'd like.
To OP, your $800 rig is pretty nice, but keep in mind that you're not really saving money on the hardware, you're saving money by cutting out parts of the product chain. Your labor costs are zero and the profit that would normally go to the company stays in your pocket.
Note to pocket-protector-wearing FrankenPC enthusiasts:
Some of us don't care about saving some bucks by building our own machines. Some of us don't have the 40 hours to research all the components we want and find the best deals, screw everything together, cross our fingers and hope the thing actually powers up. And IF it does power up, you're still stuck in the Hell that is Windows (unless you want to spend more time trying to hack together an OS X machine) and you're still stuck with something that looks like a homemade turd sitting on your desk.
Been there, done that. Not going back. Thanks.
The next time you're enjoying a nice lunch eating out, think how much money you could have saved by bringing a Top Ramen to the office. Yeah, it's just like that.
The "I could make it cheaper myself!" rants grow tiresome.
"You ask any average guy out there on the street, ask him which one he will choose. Most will go with the iMac..."
That's why Apple dominates the market, right?
Frankly if they don't need power, they could aswell just build a PC with the exact same hardware for half the price, guess what they will pick? Certainly not an iMac, not where I live.
"You ask any average guy out there on the street, ask him which one he will choose. Most will go with the iMac, they don't need such power and tend to put looks over performance"
Actually Kizorblade, I think you got it backwards. The average person would be more likely to take the cheaper, though not as pretty, computer. Which wouldn't be the mac. Your getting the online internet community confused with normal people and normal people don't splurge on fancy gadgets. If what you're saying were actually true macs would have more than 6% market share.
"And this is the difference between an iMac and your new 'super' computer."
@TheSpecialist
That's the cool thing about having a desk. All the wire hang down the back and you don't see them. The iMac looks great on the white tables at the Apple store though.
If it takes you 40 hours to research and build a PC and you STILL can't figure it out, then you must be a graduate of Failmoore County High School, or something.
And OS X (still) can't do a single thing that Windows or an Open-Source alternative can't. It just looks (a lot) better while doing it.
It's not ONLY about building your own. I prefer the mid-tower form factor for its upgradeability. Also because I have a monitor I like. I don't NEED a new monitor.
Now, I don't believe they're vastly overpriced. Not when you consider that you get bluetooth, wifi, and a webcam. But still, consider this. You're NOT buying a regular desktop machine. You're buying a desktop-laptop hybrid in a way. You're paying for a large flat panel monitor and components that are squeezed into the space approximate of a typical laptop. That's what makes the iMac unique. That's what you're buying with an iMac. You're buying easy, and you're buying less clutter. Supposedly.
Personally, I could take or leave it. For example, I have 18.5" of clearance between my desk and the lowest shelf of my hutch. The mac is 2" taller than that. However, most 20 and even some 22" monitors would fit under there. I'd much prefer a powerful Mac mini tower to stash out of the way. Then, when I want a bigger display, I can buy that.
Also, I have my current computer hooked up to my stereo for sound. No need for the crappy integrated speakers.
And to be honest, I don't use webcams. I really don't need one.
Honestly, it would be a TON cheaper for Mac to manufacture a monitorless Mac Tower. Even if they gave it a cute mini version of the Mac Pro case, it'd be cheaper.
They could sell $999 mac towers spec'd to the 24" iMac and and they would sell like hotcakes. They'd have a higher margin than they do on the iMac, and I'm sure a lot of PC owners would be more likely to switch to that than a Mac Mini (which is the red-headed stepchild anyway).
I agree 100% that Apple needs a consumer-priced tower. No doubt about it. It used to be that one could pick up a new Power Mac for under $1,500. One with an upgradable video card.
Now you're looking at $3,000 for a Mac Pro to do the same thing.
Unacceptable.
@Lein:
Who said I couldn't figure it out? I've built my own boxes before. They've worked just fine. And they were ugly, noisy, and had zero resell value. And they took up a lot of my valuable time.
@Lein: It can run Aperture, iMovie, and iDVD. I've tried (believe me, I'm a cheap bastard) every alternative to apple's software and OS. I tried Picasa and Photoshop Lightroom. I've used Windows Movie Maker, I've used Pinnacle, and other video editing programs, but none of them can match the workflow and ease of use of Apple's software.
Aperture, iMovie, and iDVD make me actually WANT to do those I need to get done, like editing my wedding video and making photo books of my trips to Italy and Quebec.
The freeware's nice, too. To give only one example, my absolute favorite HTML editor is Taco HTML edit. Free, and only for Mac.
The only app I truly miss (and the only reason I'd use Parallels) is Corel Paint Shop Pro. Photoshop Elements has the interface benefits of PSP, but no program I've used on either platform approaches the ease of use for both Vector and Raster image editing. For me, anyway. I've been using PSP since version 3 on Win 3.11.
Okay, I lied. Proprietary software for digital video editing. Mac:1 PC:0
As for Quix for the ugly part of PCs. I don't suppose you've ever seen a black aluminum Lian Li case? Pricey yes (defeating the purpose of saving money, if that's your goal) but the looks are second-to-none.
When I was a Windows user, I used to build my own computers, but there is a high chance of inflicting latent electrostatic damage on your motherboard when you're constantly popping open the hood to change out hard drives or RAM. And even though I used an antistatic mat and a antistatic wrist strap to cut down on ESD, I never had a motherboard that lasted more than two years because of this.
With a Mac Pro, Apple makes this very easy. When you open the hood, you're never exposed to the logic board or any wires. You just slip in a new hard drive or more RAM and you're perfectly okay. I have a G5 that's five years old.
...What? I've never used an ESD anything to protect myself. Hell, I even forgot to ground myself some times.
I have computers from the late 90's still going strong.
@Quix
It's more like half an hour to make a list of requirements, figure out what hardware would meet those requirements, then using resellerratings, pricegrabber, and froogle to find the lowest prices. Then you buy it. Then you burn kalyway or use nlite to burn an unattended XP install loaded with all of your needed drivers and crap. Then you take like 20-30 minutes to screw everything together. Then pop in the CD, install your needed programs, and you're done.
It's not hard. I've seen quite inept 12 year olds build their own computers.
When will people understand that you can't compare Apples to "I built my own for half the price and better specs, apple sucks blah blah blah."
Stack the iMac up against the XPS One or Gateway One. Hell, stack your custom built PC up against any manufactured PC, and it will win. How come we don't see these types of comments on HP or Dell posts? Haters.
In that marketing photo Apple is comparing an "All in One" iMac to a desktop PC - that's Apples and Oranges. A true comparison would be Dell's XPS One. I'm not saying the XPS One is more attractive (because it isn't) - but at least it is in the same product category.
Key word there was "average guy" Not too many average people will take the time to build their own PCs. Strange, though, how average computer companies (Gateway & Dell) will take the time to build their own iMac, copying an "overpriced computer" design, price it even higher, and then install Windows on it. Why would anyone want to copy a computer that is failing with such a small percent of the market?
"That's why Apple dominates the market, right?"
31% year-over-year growth (Higher than any other manufacturer). Market share up to 6.1% (just out of third place). Dell suffers negative growth rate of -7.1%. Somebody is doing something right. Guess which one.
Dell (32.1 percent with -7.1 percent growth); HP (23 percent and 6.3 percent growth); Gateway (6.4 percent with -1.1 percent growth); Apple (6.1 percent and 31 percent growth); and Toshiba (5.1 percent with 22.3 percent growth).
A half-hour to fully spec your box and find the best prices? Doubtful. And only if you're doing a sloppy job.
Me, I spent time reading reviews. Mobos. RAM. Processors. Hard drives. Video cards. Power supplies. Fans.
And figuring out which components reliably worked with which other components.
Not an easy task. Your argument that building a PC is child's play is disingenuous. If it were this easy, *everyone* would do it.
"I've seen quite inept 12 year olds build their own computers."
Yeah, and I've seen the PCs these inept 12 year olds have built. Good enough for you. Not good enough for me.
@ Lein:
Yes, I've looked at almost every aftermarket PC case on the market. Almost every one of them looks like cheap garbage. Piles of glowing plastic or flimsy metal with aliens or spiders on the sides. Or a face full or crappy looking expansion bay doors. Lame. Personally the only one I ever found that I actually liked was the Cooler Master Wavemaster (no longer available, as far as I can tell). Frankly, the whole lot of them are embarrassing.
The only truly attractive PCs I've seen are from major manufacturers (HP, Dell, Apple). And Apple has the best by far (though I do like the HP Blackbird).
"Stack the iMac up against the XPS One or Gateway One...How come we don't see these types of comments on HP or Dell posts? Haters."
Yes, the Dell and Gateway all-in-ones are very expensive also. The reason you don't see these kinds of comments in Dell and Gateway stories is that they don't force you to buy it--both companies offer countless low cost mid tower alternatives. Apple has no such alternative (the Mini has its own problems).
As soon as Apple releases a reasonably priced mid tower--the format the market has shown most people want--we'll stop complaining.
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Such nicely underpowered machines at way too much $$
And people still buy that crap, tjeez...
Just built a comp for my bro : E6600, 2GIG DDR2 800mHz RAM, SLI abit mobo, 8800gt 512mb, 320GB HD, DVD burner, keyboard+mouse(logitech), 20" TFT acer....and all the other usual bells and whistles.
800$
Yes i did assemble it myself but hell...double the performance for 1/3rd price? Thank you very much indeed.
@ Michel
And this is the difference between an iMac and your new 'super' computer.
http://images.apple.com/imac/design/images/gallery/imac_5_20071026.jpg
owned
@TheSpecialist
And you're willing to pay $1400 more for a few hidden wires and an all-in-one machine you can't even upgrade yourself (barring RAM and hard drive, of course)? I'd take Michel's $800 over this iMac any day. Nothing a few zip ties and wire enclosures couldn't fix.
@ Fenix:
So what, you are going to zip-wire a monitor to an ATX case? eeewww...
I'm not in love with the hardware as much as I'm willing to pay the price of admission to use OSX. I'm absolutely in love with Leopard.
I'm just pissed they didn't bump the Mac Mini.
You ask any average guy out there on the street, ask him which one he will choose.
Most will go with the iMac, they don't need such power and tend to put looks over performance. Plus, they would crap themselves if you told them to upgrade the Random Access Memory, they don't need to upgrade.
And those on Engadget don't really count for the majority of the people.
Seriously... Every time i use Windows on Parallels the damned thing makes me restart for "critical updates," and I'm rudely reminded about why I made the switch. Part of the problem, admittedly, is that Apple comes off as so elitist that it makes DIYers and gamers see red, which is understandable, but you really do get a lot for your money. I couldn't even think about not having Front Row, iChat, and iMovie, plus you can get a ton of freeware programs that are fully functional (Quicksilver, Shakespeer, and Transmission (also on Linux) for example). For Windows, every little utility costs money or bugs you for it on a splash screen, and most don't work quite the way you'd like.
To OP, your $800 rig is pretty nice, but keep in mind that you're not really saving money on the hardware, you're saving money by cutting out parts of the product chain. Your labor costs are zero and the profit that would normally go to the company stays in your pocket.
Note to pocket-protector-wearing FrankenPC enthusiasts:
Some of us don't care about saving some bucks by building our own machines. Some of us don't have the 40 hours to research all the components we want and find the best deals, screw everything together, cross our fingers and hope the thing actually powers up. And IF it does power up, you're still stuck in the Hell that is Windows (unless you want to spend more time trying to hack together an OS X machine) and you're still stuck with something that looks like a homemade turd sitting on your desk.
Been there, done that. Not going back. Thanks.
The next time you're enjoying a nice lunch eating out, think how much money you could have saved by bringing a Top Ramen to the office. Yeah, it's just like that.
The "I could make it cheaper myself!" rants grow tiresome.
"You ask any average guy out there on the street, ask him which one he will choose. Most will go with the iMac..."
That's why Apple dominates the market, right?
Frankly if they don't need power, they could aswell just build a PC with the exact same hardware for half the price, guess what they will pick? Certainly not an iMac, not where I live.
"You ask any average guy out there on the street, ask him which one he will choose. Most will go with the iMac, they don't need such power and tend to put looks over performance"
Actually Kizorblade, I think you got it backwards. The average person would be more likely to take the cheaper, though not as pretty, computer. Which wouldn't be the mac. Your getting the online internet community confused with normal people and normal people don't splurge on fancy gadgets. If what you're saying were actually true macs would have more than 6% market share.
"And this is the difference between an iMac and your new 'super' computer."
@TheSpecialist
That's the cool thing about having a desk. All the wire hang down the back and you don't see them. The iMac looks great on the white tables at the Apple store though.
@Quix
If it takes you 40 hours to research and build a PC and you STILL can't figure it out, then you must be a graduate of Failmoore County High School, or something.
And OS X (still) can't do a single thing that Windows or an Open-Source alternative can't. It just looks (a lot) better while doing it.
@Quix: The issue is a little murkier than that.
It's not ONLY about building your own. I prefer the mid-tower form factor for its upgradeability. Also because I have a monitor I like. I don't NEED a new monitor.
Now, I don't believe they're vastly overpriced. Not when you consider that you get bluetooth, wifi, and a webcam. But still, consider this. You're NOT buying a regular desktop machine. You're buying a desktop-laptop hybrid in a way. You're paying for a large flat panel monitor and components that are squeezed into the space approximate of a typical laptop. That's what makes the iMac unique. That's what you're buying with an iMac. You're buying easy, and you're buying less clutter. Supposedly.
Personally, I could take or leave it. For example, I have 18.5" of clearance between my desk and the lowest shelf of my hutch. The mac is 2" taller than that. However, most 20 and even some 22" monitors would fit under there. I'd much prefer a powerful Mac mini tower to stash out of the way. Then, when I want a bigger display, I can buy that.
Also, I have my current computer hooked up to my stereo for sound. No need for the crappy integrated speakers.
And to be honest, I don't use webcams. I really don't need one.
Honestly, it would be a TON cheaper for Mac to manufacture a monitorless Mac Tower. Even if they gave it a cute mini version of the Mac Pro case, it'd be cheaper.
They could sell $999 mac towers spec'd to the 24" iMac and and they would sell like hotcakes. They'd have a higher margin than they do on the iMac, and I'm sure a lot of PC owners would be more likely to switch to that than a Mac Mini (which is the red-headed stepchild anyway).
@Ryan:
I agree 100% that Apple needs a consumer-priced tower. No doubt about it. It used to be that one could pick up a new Power Mac for under $1,500. One with an upgradable video card.
Now you're looking at $3,000 for a Mac Pro to do the same thing.
Unacceptable.
@Lein:
Who said I couldn't figure it out? I've built my own boxes before. They've worked just fine. And they were ugly, noisy, and had zero resell value. And they took up a lot of my valuable time.
Not worth it. Not to me. Not anymore.
@Lein: It can run Aperture, iMovie, and iDVD. I've tried (believe me, I'm a cheap bastard) every alternative to apple's software and OS. I tried Picasa and Photoshop Lightroom. I've used Windows Movie Maker, I've used Pinnacle, and other video editing programs, but none of them can match the workflow and ease of use of Apple's software.
Aperture, iMovie, and iDVD make me actually WANT to do those I need to get done, like editing my wedding video and making photo books of my trips to Italy and Quebec.
The freeware's nice, too. To give only one example, my absolute favorite HTML editor is Taco HTML edit. Free, and only for Mac.
The only app I truly miss (and the only reason I'd use Parallels) is Corel Paint Shop Pro. Photoshop Elements has the interface benefits of PSP, but no program I've used on either platform approaches the ease of use for both Vector and Raster image editing. For me, anyway. I've been using PSP since version 3 on Win 3.11.
Okay, I lied. Proprietary software for digital video editing. Mac:1 PC:0
As for Quix for the ugly part of PCs. I don't suppose you've ever seen a black aluminum Lian Li case? Pricey yes (defeating the purpose of saving money, if that's your goal) but the looks are second-to-none.
When I was a Windows user, I used to build my own computers, but there is a high chance of inflicting latent electrostatic damage on your motherboard when you're constantly popping open the hood to change out hard drives or RAM. And even though I used an antistatic mat and a antistatic wrist strap to cut down on ESD, I never had a motherboard that lasted more than two years because of this.
With a Mac Pro, Apple makes this very easy. When you open the hood, you're never exposed to the logic board or any wires. You just slip in a new hard drive or more RAM and you're perfectly okay. I have a G5 that's five years old.
I thought you said HD DVD burner. What you meant was 'Hard Drive, DVD Burner...'
Silly me.
@clak
...What? I've never used an ESD anything to protect myself. Hell, I even forgot to ground myself some times.
I have computers from the late 90's still going strong.
@Quix
It's more like half an hour to make a list of requirements, figure out what hardware would meet those requirements, then using resellerratings, pricegrabber, and froogle to find the lowest prices. Then you buy it. Then you burn kalyway or use nlite to burn an unattended XP install loaded with all of your needed drivers and crap. Then you take like 20-30 minutes to screw everything together. Then pop in the CD, install your needed programs, and you're done.
It's not hard. I've seen quite inept 12 year olds build their own computers.
When will people understand that you can't compare Apples to "I built my own for half the price and better specs, apple sucks blah blah blah."
Stack the iMac up against the XPS One or Gateway One. Hell, stack your custom built PC up against any manufactured PC, and it will win. How come we don't see these types of comments on HP or Dell posts? Haters.
@TheSpecialist
In that marketing photo Apple is comparing an "All in One" iMac to a desktop PC - that's Apples and Oranges. A true comparison would be Dell's XPS One. I'm not saying the XPS One is more attractive (because it isn't) - but at least it is in the same product category.
Here is what that comparison looks like:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2105/2448644935_50c8738f13_o.jpg
@FTY
Key word there was "average guy" Not too many average people will take the time to build their own PCs. Strange, though, how average computer companies (Gateway & Dell) will take the time to build their own iMac, copying an "overpriced computer" design, price it even higher, and then install Windows on it. Why would anyone want to copy a computer that is failing with such a small percent of the market?
"That's why Apple dominates the market, right?"
31% year-over-year growth (Higher than any other manufacturer). Market share up to 6.1% (just out of third place). Dell suffers negative growth rate of -7.1%. Somebody is doing something right. Guess which one.
Dell (32.1 percent with -7.1 percent growth); HP (23 percent and 6.3 percent growth); Gateway (6.4 percent with -1.1 percent growth); Apple (6.1 percent and 31 percent growth); and Toshiba (5.1 percent with 22.3 percent growth).
@ Jesse S:
A half-hour to fully spec your box and find the best prices? Doubtful. And only if you're doing a sloppy job.
Me, I spent time reading reviews. Mobos. RAM. Processors. Hard drives. Video cards. Power supplies. Fans.
And figuring out which components reliably worked with which other components.
Not an easy task. Your argument that building a PC is child's play is disingenuous. If it were this easy, *everyone* would do it.
"I've seen quite inept 12 year olds build their own computers."
Yeah, and I've seen the PCs these inept 12 year olds have built. Good enough for you. Not good enough for me.
@ Lein:
Yes, I've looked at almost every aftermarket PC case on the market. Almost every one of them looks like cheap garbage. Piles of glowing plastic or flimsy metal with aliens or spiders on the sides. Or a face full or crappy looking expansion bay doors. Lame. Personally the only one I ever found that I actually liked was the Cooler Master Wavemaster (no longer available, as far as I can tell). Frankly, the whole lot of them are embarrassing.
The only truly attractive PCs I've seen are from major manufacturers (HP, Dell, Apple). And Apple has the best by far (though I do like the HP Blackbird).
Hey Michel, how much did you pay for the OS and basic software?
"And this is the difference between an iMac and your new 'super' computer."
I don't know about you but I keep my PC under my desk, with the wires neatly bundled. The top of my desk looks like the iMac photo.
"Stack the iMac up against the XPS One or Gateway One...How come we don't see these types of comments on HP or Dell posts? Haters."
Yes, the Dell and Gateway all-in-ones are very expensive also. The reason you don't see these kinds of comments in Dell and Gateway stories is that they don't force you to buy it--both companies offer countless low cost mid tower alternatives. Apple has no such alternative (the Mini has its own problems).
As soon as Apple releases a reasonably priced mid tower--the format the market has shown most people want--we'll stop complaining.