Blu-ray player sales sink as 2008 begins... except for Sony's PlayStation 3
By Darren Murph 
posted April 30th 2008 10:45PM
posted April 30th 2008 10:45PM
[Image courtesy of kev]
posted April 30th 2008 10:45PM
A look back on popular stories from today in a specific year.
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Ahhh... Blu-Ray better lower their prices, cause either I'll buy an Upconversion Player or HD DVD+ and/or HD VMD will join the battle! Sony, do you get what your poor coustomers really want? Yes or No? Com'on lower your prices or people will regret purchasing your 'rolls-royce' DVD players!!!
You really think VMD stands a chance? I don't see Lazy Town in HD driving many sales of VMD players.
Hi def players WERE under $200 and were pretty much complete at that price. But the PS3 killed them with its $500 subsidy. So now we wait for Blu-ray to catch up. As for "2013", does anyone believe that no one will have anything better on the market than blu-ray by then? Moore's law suggests a factor of 10 every five years....
HD DVD was also highly subsidized, more than blu-ray stand alones.
Why is the comment system on this site always fucking broken?
Seriously this is getting ridiculous. Half the time the comments are visible. The other half they're repeated multiple times because the website for some reason doesn't want to show that its received the comment...
Anyways regarding this news it doesn't surprise me one bit. I'm huge supporter of Bluray now but I haven't bought a Bluray player yet.
The reason being I'm waiting for the Profile 2.0 player that catches my attention and provides the best/highest quality for the amount of money I shell out.
So far theres nothing out that is Profile 2.0. Don't mention the ps3 to me because I hate sony and I hate the ps3 so I'm not going for that. I'd rather buy a STANDALONE Profile 2.0 player.
And it seems like the average consumer who may be interested in Bluray is waiting too...whether its for a drop in price or the release of the final standard players people just aren't buying them right now.
Another thing I've noticed is that most stores don't stock the current bluray players that much. My local BB only has 1 Bluray player available. All the combo ones have been gone for weeks.
Seems like there is a delay when you post a comment
Amen brother! Fix the damn comment system!!
(the rest of your post I didnt read but rock on with that too)
"so far theres nothing out that is profile 2.0. don't mention the ps3 because I hate sony"
Um... just because you hate sony doesn't mean the ps3 isn't a profile 2.0 player. It won't just dissapear if you close your eyes.
There are 2 reasons why blu-ray player sales are down. 1 is they are never in stock. Case and point... our store (not saying which one) get 1-3 blu-ray players shipped at one time. They are gone in a matter of a day or so. Then we won't get another shipment for 2-3 weeks or even longer. And 2, why would you not buy a PS3? It's the only blu-ray player right now that is standard profile 2.0 (relevant to some), it plays games, it has DTS-HD audio, built in internet browser, updating the firmware can be done wirelessly and easily, load times are many times faster, etc. The only downfall is it has no built in IR sensor, but I bought the blu-wave IR dongle and it works perfect with my Harmony One. Back to 1 real quick, in the time were out of stock of blu-ray core players, we substitute the PS3 instead because it's better, and we have plenty.
I hope Blu-ray rots on the vine.
Two years on the market and barely a dent in the total sales of movies.
Two years on the market, and still no standard specification for players.
Two years on the market, all spent dragging down a competing format.
The rocket scientists are at it again!!
EVERYONE other than the sony fantards have been saying this since Adam & Eve wore diapers!
The hardware and software products are WAY to expensive, and the product in general does not have enough differences to SD DVD to be worth purchasing, the only people who think otherwise cuddle up to their sony blankets and kiss the blu fairy good night, every night
!
My XA2 upscales DVDs so well, (or anyone else's Oppo etc) that there is no need for me to go blu unless the product was very cheap, why bother!
I love all the comments from the blu brotherhood that say upscaling is crap. Either they don't have a quality DVD upscaler or they are just to brainwashed to know any better, the newer the DVD, the better the result.
Maybe they swapped their CRT TVs and DVD players for big Plasmas and BR players at one time and thought, OMG!!!, how good is blu ray, because for anyone else, it is just a small evolutionary step, and not revolutionary as the blu crowd would have everyone believe!
A quality upscaling DVD player on any decent HD TV does a brilliant job and the look and sound difference is so minimal, that unless BR is cheap, the masses WILL NOT BOTHER!
Just another pitiful failure in a long line of attempts from sony, an excellent quality and innovative CE manufacturer who's obsession with market domination and control leads them to failure time and time again.
Sad really.
Interesting reading on a number of forums, lots of people claiming that blu ray players have sub standard upscaling DVD capabilities, wow, I WONDER WHY??!!, maybe 1 reason BR fanboys think DVD upscaling is crap.
It would be a very interesting read enghd, for you guys to do a comparison between a quality upscaling DVD player and a BR player, a big shoot out......."the best of DVD V BR"............ what say you Mr.Murphy??
Anyone else here like to see that comparison??
So your HD DVD/upscaler player cost more than a blu-ray player.
Gus, that was beautiful. I couldn't agree more. I think Sony is going to be the only company reaping any rewards from Blu Ray.
Toshiba undercut everyone and left no room for the big CE companies to go HDDVD and make a profit. Sony has done the same - why would anyone buy a stand alone player when you can buy a PS3 that does so much more at the same price?
Good Luck Blu Ray, If the prices don't drop fast it will soon be over.
Well, I'm not a blu fanatic -- ex-red, in fact -- but upscaling IS crap if you have a TV that has a decent scaler. My old progressive Panasonic DVD to my Sony SXRD does better than any Oppo or A35 ever did. Why? Because the TV does 480p -> 1080p as good as anything.
For the most part upscaling players are a gimmick. Yes, the XA2 was really pretty good at it, but there are any number of TVs that are just as good. When I hear people bragging about their great upscaling player, I hear "my TV's upscaler is crap."
No Spiza, I purchased the XA2 after the collapse of HD DVD primarily as a quality upscaling DVD player that happens to play HD discs as well. It was half the price of a BR player and came with 11 free discs, a no brainer really.
On BR terms, the 11 free discs are equivalent to about $350 and I paid less than that total!!
The point is KCMurphy, quality upscaling, whether it be by the TV or the player does a damn fine job and limits the necessity for BR, true?
And if this Tosh TV super upconversion vapour ware ever takes off, times will only be much tougher for BR, I should imagine Tosh would license that technology very cheaply.
well gus, you only got that because HD DVD lost. If blu-ray had lost, you would have been able to get $100 players.
You could have gotten a $500 PS3 and 15 movies from wal-mart in november, with 10 of those being any that you select and the other 5 in the mail. That to me is still a better deal even if you don't game. I haven't bought a game yet, but I use the PS3 to store my music and to stream HD from my PC.
Blu-ray players will come down in price. You'll see $200 profile 2 players in November this year. 2009 will be the big year for blu-ray if the economy doesn't tank anymore.
I'm perfectly happy with my HDTV. No need for a high-def movie. Upconversion works great. unless chinese manufacturers gets involved, chances are I won't buy a blu-ray player even in 2013.
When new 2.0 players emerge, and have been out for awhile, the prices will drop and you'll find more people buying them. Blu-ray is still a very new technology.
Just give it a little bit of time. I suspect Next Christmas you'll see quite few players sold.
People want to buy them, but the supply isn't there. If they ship them, they will buy.
Wow, way to go Warner, you must be "Over the Moon" with your decision to kill off the much cheaper, consumer friendly, potentially mass market HD DVD product and run with the giant killing BR niche!
Gus, that's a lie. HD DVD wasn't cheaper. The hardware and software in a BD or HD DVD player is virtually identical. It may have appeared "cheaper" to naive consumers who choose to ignore that Toshiba took a massive financial hit on every sale to monopolize the format. That doesn't mean it actually was though. Prices of both formats were largely comparable whether the consumer saw the same price or not. Toshiba lost close to $250 million last quarter, mostly attributable to their push on HD DVD.
I agree that HD DVD was more consumer friendly in some respects. Region free is a consumer friendly feature. But DRM isn't (and BD has it too before you say). And being monopolized by a single CE manufacturer is absolutely not consumer friendly at all. You are woefully mistaken to think HD DVD was "consumer friendly". If HD DVD had won, the market would be in a far worse situation as it is now. I fully expect that Toshiba would jack up its prices and you wouldn't even have the benefit for competition to drive them back down.
"If HD DVD had won, the market would be in a far worse situation as it is now."
No we wouldn't. Toshiba licensed HD DVD players to Chinese companies (or company?) -- which means prices would always stay low. Sony will not license BD to China, which means prices will always stay high until they do.
@Mark: that's an excellent point, Toshiba are not some angel that nearly saved the world with HD DVD. Don't think they don't like monopolising either.
I have just realised (after the whole war, which is funny timing), that the whole source of HD DVD fanboyism/anti-blu-ray-ism, is simply SONY HATE. I think too many people have become irrational in their judgement of blu-ray (and still so, which I can't believe!), simply due to their deep feelings against Sony as a company. As depressing as this sounds, if you're always trying to "do your bit" to bring Sony down, I doubt it's likely to happen, and even if this "evil Sony empire" falls one day, I'm sure one just as bad or even worse will take its place. Duh.
So stop annoying people with comments full of Sony hate, when it's not doing anything. Best to keep it to yourself, as I have because I really like blu-ray - it's the best quality movie format for the consumer, it's your choice whether to take it or leave it.
they really better hurry up with the pricing.... i still dont have a player (had hd-dvd) but i see no reason to get a bluray anytime soon until pricing comes way down.
im using the 360 download service more and more... while it is expensive for what it is its still vastly cheaper than bluray. and you are really starting to see the bluray rips start to be streamlined (esp now that managed copy is gone from aacs and people are done waiting for something official). there are tons of flicks out there in damn good quality.... while not bluray they are damn close and the ui advantages (things like niveus/kaliedescape/etc) outweigh the quality differences.
im getting very close to not getting a bluray player ever and just a pc drive and ripping movies for media center.
the magic $200 mark? uh weren't we there already. it was call hd-dvd.
Um any of you kids around ten years ago when DVD was new? Anybody remember how long it took for players to get below $500? A while. Toshiba's took a little longer, do a little research.
The fact of the matter is that HDVD was cheaper for two reasons; 1) it was built on old, and far more limited technology. 2) They were desperate to try to save their format. The prices dropped unnaturally, and unsustainably quickly. If HDVD had won... sorry, I have to chuckle a little when I even think that, their prices would have gone up.
The real reason player sales have dropped over the last couple of months is because people are waiting for the general availability of profile 2.0 systems. Evidenced by the fact that the only 2.0 is selling gangbusters.
"If HDVD had won... sorry, I have to chuckle a little when I even think that, their prices would have gone up."
Yep you're spot on there. Toshiba couldn't have afforded it, they ONLY reduced prices in order to try and win the war. Which they didn't anyway.
I'm really getting tired to death of hearing the old, "You know how much DVD cost 10 years ago" crap. This isn't 10 years ago and this isn't DVD.
DVD was replacing VHS. It was a huge revolutionary step in home media and DVD had no real competition. DVD is better than VHS in EVERY. SINGLE. WAY.
Blu-ray offers a better picture and audio and maybe some additional bonus features.
There isn't a huge change in format...it's still a disc and offers all the benefits of disc media (no rewinding, almost instantly being able to jump anywhere on the disc, etc) and the picture quality improvement isn't as appreciated by non-videophiles. And since I'd wager the vast majority of J6P families out there don't spend more than $300 on a HTiaB, the increased sound quality isn't being utilized either.
Blu-ray doesn't have the luxury of time that DVD had. If they don't get their prices down and FAST, it will never, EVER replace DVD. Plus, while downloads aren't going to be taking over any time soon, if it's a choice between $30 for a movie if you already have a $400+ player, or $5 to download a movie that looks "HD enough" for the average person, what do you think the choice is going to be?
Give a rest with the comparison to DVD's market inception. It's not the same now, wasn't when Blu-ray/HD DVD were first launched nor will it EVER be the same as DVD's launch.
Thank you for a breath of reason in this thread. The number of people here spouting off based on nothing but sour grapes and an unnatural hatred of everything Sony is just mind boggling.
The format war is over. Standalone Blu-ray sales haven't picked up yet for two basic reasons: (1) Lack of Profile 2.0 players cheaper than the PS3, and (2) Overall high prices, since we're still in the early adopter period.
Both issues will be solved as time goes on. I really don't understand the inability of people to understand the introduction cycle of new electronic gadgets, after all this time. Early adopters jump in first when prices are high. Prices begin to drop, bugs get worked out, and more features are added next (the period we're in now). Next, prices start to reach mass adoption levels and players are fully featured and bug free. Blu-ray probably won't reach this stage for at least two years yet.
There's one word that describes this effect...THE ECONOMY. Who has the cash to spend 400.00 for a machine and 25.00 for a movie? We can't even fill our gas tanks, buy food and pay our bills and debts anymore and come out ahead. This is hurting not only blu-ray but everything. Let's not blame this on blu-ray as a format...it is something that is desired but most Americans right now just can't afford luxuries. We have our wonderful government administration of the last 8 years to thank for this situation. I don't think, had hd-dvd had won and players were 200.00, they would be doing any better right now.
$24.95 is the exeption, unless your buying online. Most B&M retailers are averaging $29.99. I was depressed to see how many at BB were still at $34.99. Player prices are too high, but you take the hit once. These movie prices hit you hard every time you buy a movie. It's great for the renters that are doing BD though.
At the moment I'm using a BD-RW in my HTPC. If I get a stand alone player it will be a profile 2.0. Not suprised that people are holding of buying stand alone players.
The reason Blu-Ray isn't setting the world on fire is because a lot of people really resent the "Tanya Harding"- style heavy-handed tactics used to eliminate the competition from HD-DVD.
"Buying out" Warner Home Video and setting off a chain-reaction of companies bailing out of HD-DVD really angered a lot of consumers. No, not just disappointed, but ANGERED them.
Not exactly the best PR for a new format.
So of course, they're not breaking down the doors to buy the more expensive and functionally incomplete Blu-Ray.
As the old saying goes: "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink"!
You're projecting. 99% of consumers haven't the faintest inkling of the shenanigans that have been going on. And those that do would probably know that Paramount / Dreamworks were bought out by HD DVD. Why would they be outraged by some Warner buyout if the other side had engaged in its buyouts?
Sales are down in February over January? Like when store sales are over and the bargains disappear? Like when people have no money to spend? This should not surprise anyone. You could probably plot the same trend in toasters or frying pans for all the significance it would contain. Retailers go through this exact same cycle every year.
Prices are hurting Blu-Ray adoption, as is the exchange rate & economy, but fundamentally it isn't much different from DVD before it. DVD players cost a fortune early in their lives and then they dropped to a price that everyone could afford. Same will happen with the new format.
Did anyone notice that upconversion players are "beating the pants off" Blu-Ray players?
Maybe in these rough economic times, they're good enough!
How many times can the same news be posted and the same arguments be hashed?
We all know PS3 is the way to go if you want Blu-Ray right now, we all know prices will go down and we've heard the news about the future of Blu looks better than the present.
Wow, someone cut me a cheque for my troubles already.
Hmmm ... anyone ever thought that it might be because of the lack of decent titles? Most titles that are released are either box office flops or old horror fare from the 1970s and 1980s, or new fare with pathetic plots and absurd acting.
I personally know people in the DVD business (with large DVD libraries) who have said that they won't buy the technology (for themselves) until decent titles (such as Lawrence of Arabia, for example, or Bridge on the River Kwai, or Ben-Hur) is released.
It is rather funny.
The original projections were skewed (and rendered wrong, I admit it) by the power of the determined cheque book
(not the a/v customer).
But here we can see study after study agreeing, Blu-ray is dead and going nowhere - except making meaningless incremental steps further up the PS3 cul-de-sac.
Big deal.
The PS3 gang just don't get it
(so much so that they can be regularly seen asking the question - 'why doesn't everyone want a PS3?').
The facts are that most of the grown ups wanting a new DVD player (whatever format) don't want an overpriced kids game console.
Why the hell should they pay for abilities they have no interest in and will never use?
HD DVD has already proved that things only start to happen in the mass-market when you get to sub $150 - $100 pricing and sub $20 movies.
It'll be years (2013?) until Blu-ray gets anywhere near that - the vast debts and costs they have incurred setting BD up and that they have to recoup alone guarantee that.
Blu-ray can't afford to go low cost
(whereas HD DVD by costing relatively speaking almost nothing compared could - you will never see any of the BDA write off their Blu-ray costs as a one year once only payment!).
The use of the PS3 was an interesting strategy but the truth is that Blu-ray is just as dead as HD DVD.
The PS3 will keep it on life-support a while longer but sooner or later they will have to admit openly their actual sales numbers and the fact that they are going nowhere.
Blu-ray won the squabble with HD DVD only to lose the war against DVD.
(and don't give us that BS comparing DVD to Blu-ray, even if your conclusions were accurate - they usually aren't - the market has moved on so far beyond those times that simplistic direct comparisons are ridiculous)
blu ray is selling faster than dvd did in the same time frame. prices wll need to go down eventually. movies do cost more than dvd but they arent super expensive. vhs was king for a few decades, only a few years ago did dvd finaly top vhs in sales.. also when you get down to prices, dvd players were just if not more expensive than bluray so were movies. same with vhs. even with vhs on top selling like crazy, movues cost 30-50 at retail, in some cases more. granted laser disc was more expensive wth movies well over 100-150 (but th disc swapping and lack of recordabalilty killed them, especially when they already had disc based recorders that fails before laser) but bluray is doing fine. they need more movies, but later this year they finally get major support. the main thing other than the support and pricing s they need the studios to put out older movies t bluray and not just new stuff. more people would buy older movies in HD than new stuff.
There is absolutely nothing to support your assertion that HD-DVD cost far less ("almost nothing") than BluRay. The discs are very similar to BluRay discs. The players are very similar to BluRay players.
*quote
why not the LS2LS7?
There is absolutely nothing to support your assertion that HD-DVD cost far less ("almost nothing") than BluRay. The discs are very similar to BluRay discs. The players are very similar to BluRay players.
====================================================
Er, no.
You ought to go away & learn a little more about it all
(and from sources other than people like the f*ckwit cretins at Blu-ray.com).
Blu-ray is only similar in the sense that it used a violet/blue laser.......that's about as accurate as claiming that Blu-ray is similar to SD DVD.
In theory there are similarities but in practice it's very different.
Blu-ray requires an inherently much more expensive drive mechanism thanks to it using a much tighter spec to achieve the ability to read the smaller pits on the disc.
HD DVD was in fact very close to SD DVD as far as the hardware production goes (excepting the laser) which is why it can be said (relatively speaking) to have cost pennies compared to Blu-ray.
We already saw Toshiba write off the entire cost of HD DVD as a 1-off cost in their accounts (@ around $460 million).
If you imagine Blu-ray comes in at anything like that kind of cost (especially after the losses Sony have reported in the last 3 - 5 years) you're insane.
The seperate production/replication lines alone mean Blu-ray is always going to be much more expensive than HD DVD was which used lines which could be easily switched from SD to HD DVD and back again at a low cost (as happened).
It's because everyone was out of stock tbh, we didn't have any for months. Don't take the numbers at face value, the sales figures will rise again now that they're returning to the shelves.
I just don't think this is the season for buying new tech. We'll see what happens when the holiday buying season starts.
I'm definitely considering getting my parents a profile 1.1 machine for Christmas. I bet those will be priced to go then. They're just movie watchers so I'm pretty sure they don't really care to play AvP online game.
I'm waiting for the 2.0 Profile boxes to come out, as I'm sure a lot of readers here are.
I only bought two discs after the HD-DVD camp threw in the towel, and after Amazon stopped selling Buy-One-Get-One-Free, one HD-DVD title on eBay and one new Blueray from Bestbuy on sale. Before I bought HD-DVD and/or Blueray movies almost weekly, but I'll wait until I can them for $15 or less.
I have a Toshiba XA2 and a Sony PS3. I still believe consumers lost when Blueray won after they had to pay off more than ½ a billion dollars in bribes. Now consumers only choice is an expensive player still in development and expensive region-coded titles.
I still don't understand why people would want an HDTV but not want to display any actual HD on it
Amen! The only people I see cheering for the "upconverting is good enough" position seem to be bitter HD DVD owners. If you're an HD DVD supporter taking this position, here's a question for you to ponder: If upscaled DVD is "good enough", why did you even bother with HD DVD in the first place? Did you buy it by accident, thinking you were getting a DVD upscaler?
In three years, profile 2.0 Blu-ray players are going to be cheaper than Toshiba ever subsidized their HD DVD players. Catalog movies on BD will be much cheaper than they are now, rivaling DVD prices. Will DVD upscaling still be good enough then?
I bought mine because I want HD content but I'm betting some others just wanted a new tv and didn't see any cheaper SD TVs or they wanted a big screen tv and didn't see any SD BSTVs out there.