RIM allows Indian government to monitor Blackberry network
By Nilay Patel 
posted May 22nd 2008 2:28PM
posted May 22nd 2008 2:28PM
Well, it took longer than 15 days to reach a resolution, but apparently RIM is going to back down and allow the Indian government to monitor the Blackberry network in that country. What's worse, it appears that RIM was more interested in covering its own ass than protecting user data during the negotiations: the only concession the company received from the Indian government was a promise that it won't be held liable if there's a leak of users' personal information. Yeah, that ought to provide a sparkling incentive to keep things safe. There's no word on when monitoring might begin, but we've got a feeling privacy-loving Indians might suddenly be in the market for a new smartphone.[Thanks, Rishab J.]
Why am I not surprised that engadget thinks the first smartphone indians might be interested in would be an iPhone?
Sigh.
No kidding....Stop it with the fanboy shizzle. I am not going to parade my favorite computer brand...hell, they are all pretty much equally bad and good in some way.
The only real difference is that no MS fan is willing to take a bullet or give a kidney to Billy Gates/Balmer.
Indian government gives Rim Job.
I wouldn't even have noticed, save for you pointing it out. The subtle link in the article was appropriate given that Blackberry is fighting an out-and-out war against the iPhone. Your comment just made a big deal out of it, and that was entirely unnecessary.
Are Engadget Apple fanboys? I. Really. Don't. Care.
What I am sick of is the endless whining in the comments. Post something funny instead, I would much more appreciate that. And in the spirit of that, I promise this is my last anti-whining comment. Ok?
On the bright side, if Indians did all start migrating to the IPhone and India wanted to spy on their networks but Steve Jobs basically said No WAY! I bet they would never get the permission to spy.
Love or hate Apple, everybody knows that Steve Jobs has got balls and doesn't let anyone, not even governments, push him or his company around.
And people laugh at my tin foil hat.
In all seriousness, this is not good. I hope this doesn't spread to other countries.
Yeah - last thing other countries need is tin foil hats.
Well, here in the UK, the government could be monitoring all communications in the country.
which wouldn't work because terrorism transpired well before mobile phones and the internet (IRA- 1970's and 1980's) and it still can happen today without technology.
and, as Ben Franklin said: "He who will sacrifice liberty for temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety"
Well UKers don't believe in Ben Franklin.
When you have as many terrorist incidents as India does, then you have to do something about it. I guess the average Indian looks up to it as a good intervention. I don't care if someone reads some stupid chain mails that my friends love, as long as they can keep someone from blowing up!
Jamma
Except Franklin didn't say it. Not only that, he didn't say what he didn't say. What he said was "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" and he was actually a guy you've never heard of named Richard Jackson. But nice try anyway.
Oh and for 7on, they ought to believe in Jackson though as he was a King's Counsel.
You mean like a government (US?) putting a tap on all incoming/outgoing voice and data communications from a major Telecom (AT&T)? Yeah, that would be insane.
Are you folks - all of you - kidding me? Echelon network? Anyone?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON
This is NOTHING new, your FAX, voicecalls etc were monitored even way back in the 90s.
Wake up ...
@Brent
1. If you wish your attributions towards our trivial knowledge to hold more respect and credibility, you should not be a prick about it. Having esoteric knowledge doesn't make you smarter or better than anyone else. The principal purpose for any kind of knowledge should be for the betterment of people, rather than put them down in the interest of your own ego.
2. Not to be a grammar nazi, but you should proofread your comments before you post them.
3. Perhaps you are accurate in your conjecture, but Bartlett's Familiar Quotes attributes this quotation to Franklin, so it isn't really pure ignorance that would make some one believe that he said it.
I know that this comment is off-topic and overly righteous, but there is no reason that courteous and accurate writing cannot be extended to the internet.
"RIM".. *snicker*
lol, RIM
I've always wanted to work for RIM so I can tell everyone I got this great RIM job :D
I do for work for RIM and it never gets old. Seriously! ha ha ha ha ha
there are posters up in every damn university in ontario looking for business and IT students who want to work for RIM........how much do they pay? lol
And?
And, why is the Indian government interested in monitoring the Blackberry network? I can't think of a valid reason other than to control its population. Sad days we live in when this whole new world order is starting to materialized.
i think the indian government is trying to discourage indians to use foreign smart phones and use smart phones (or other phones) made in india by indians so that the indians will gain more wealth. in other word, the indian government is helping indian companies eliminating/reducing their competitors and discourage other foregin companies to enter the indian market so that indian products will become more popular and grow.
it might be complete bull but thats what i came up with.
Ok not to be rude but don't people in India get paid in like pebbles or something and it would cost a normal Indian around Billion pebbles to buy a Blackberry and they make like 12 pebbles a year. So what theres like 3 people in India who will be able to puchase a Blackberry so India problably wants to know who the Hell the 3 people are who could afford the device and probably send them Spam Emails wanting donations.
Mildly amusing, but really it appears you have no clue about the current state of India.
A growing middle class that is extremely tech savy is a great explanation of why blackberries would be wanted.
Stay in school, you might learn something. Nah, nothing is getting
through your head.
And if you are going to insult someone, at least do it right. Make the red dot joke. I am Indian and I think it's freaking hilarious. Go to a comedy school or something.
You will move to INdia and you will work for their asses when your country runs out of jobs. CHina and India will be the new economies, F--k--g racist
Lol...I'm Indian and I found that racist comment amusing!
Anywho, I don't even know whether this is a sad state of affairs, or a chest-thumping exercise by the current govt who wants to show a disinterested public that they are indeed taking steps to curb terrorism. So instead of doing the hard task of actually goin on the streets, they use these "behind the desk, white collar" methods as a way to curb terrorism.
Nonsense in my opinion. How many terrorists are actually using RIM phones anyway. Nokia rules in India. Always will!
The Pushstarts in India (there you go mike) know a helluv a lot about all this crap considering whenever I call for tech help on just about anything with an AC cord I get someone I can't understand 12 timezones away, though its true i dont know how much HP actually pays these people....outsourcing: the new American way.
In case anyone was keeping score, bigd7387 didn't make any references to race or peoples attributes in particular.
Most people are not as smart as they want to boast here on this site. I am not making a racist comment on the people of India. What I'm trying to state is that "whatever currency India uses and no disrespect to the middle class" but MS introduced the 360 to India and it was stated that people could purchase the 360 on a payment plan since a 360 would cost the average Indian a 1/2 years salary. Which would bring to mind the fact that the Middle Class is actually a minority and the real workers of Indian are really not going to be affected by "Big Brother" snoping on their Blackberry's since most of the population would have a difficult time being able to afford such an expensive item. I would think that most of you who can read would be able to understand a post that was trying to understand why the average Indian would care about "Big Brother" when it appears that most are more interested in supporting their familes and buying groceries. And yeah India may have a great middle class but reading the reports from the country seems to suggest that India is still a very poor country and companies are not paying what would be considered outstanding wages for the outsourcing population.
Dude ... when was the last time you visited the country?? I went there last year and it was expensive to party there. *one* drink was $22 (USD) and the club (in Bombay) was crowded with tons of folks drinking. And this wasn't a 5 star hotel's club!
The scene looked very similar to a decade back, but I was a QUITE knocked out by the prices. Seems money flows rather easily ...
India has the most advanced cellular phone market in the world. Nokia, Sony E, Motorola, RIM, etc release most of their models in India earlier and more freely than in America. It's rooted in the fact that no Indian GSM service is tied to a cellphone.
I can go to a store, literally buy ANY GSM based cellphone I want, and then go to a number of telecom providers and use a prepaid or postpaid service. I personally have 4 friends all of whom have Blackberrys. Spending 300$ for JUST a cellphone may seem exorbitant to you Americans, but in India, Rs.12,000 (The equivalent of 300$) is actually NOT expensive- it's expected.
You can buy a cellphone WITHOUT a plan tied in for as low as Rs.1600 (40$) to as high as Rs.30,000 (750$). Heck, the Indian middle class is LARGER than the entire population of the United States.
One drink $22???
How would I go about exporting PBR? Hmmm... may have to Release the Beast on India, too!
Or better yet, lay some underground pipe (thats what she said) and pum some natty light over thar!
well,
ppl in india get paid rupees
and no they dont make 3 "pebbles" in a year
and mr. smary pants
u may b surprised to find out that mostly all of the companies in the USA (surprise surprise) are operated from india
and most likely more ppl in india own a black berry than america
and no i am from india i am livening in america and also own a blackberry
and did u know that there is a machine in america that also spies on ppl's fone calls and stuff
wow
i learned that in 8th grade
Who cares...All the customer service is outsourced there anyway... They have access to all that stuff if they wanted...
iPhone FTW!
perhaps people in those types of places should shop having children? Too many people are being born today... that was there will be no population to contol!
wrongo there mate, Africa is where they need to stop having children...OH NO HE DIDNT!!! Yes, yes I did.
Honestly, wherever YOU'RE from is where they need to stop having children FIRST.
hee hee, you got third! wow, now you can blog about it on myspace or call your friends on your hello kitty phone.
God I hate these comments. come the revolution.....
Big Brother, who AOL?
[crowd] oooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhh [/crowd]
Wake up! These governments are NOT monitoring or concerned about terrorism (it's organised at street level), they are worried about and monitoring the middle classes who are becoming increasingly angry at the stupification and moral destruction of our society - in particular here in the UK. If you want a very very minor example of this slow but consistent dumbing down, notice that on the BBC News (UK) website (news.bbc.co.uk) the ONLY radio link (in the left magin) is to Radio 1. Easily the most intellectually devoid radio station available. No link to Radio 2, 3 or 4. We really are in deep deep trouble and hopefully someone out there has an idea as to what to do - for as long as any democratic paths remain open.
you guys only have 4 radio stations, and they're named 1, 2, 3, and 4?
[/joke]
I don't think this is a "Big brother" thing the way engadget is making it out to be.
It's kind of impossible to monitor the thoughts and predict the actions (even though indians are so damn predictable), of a billion or more ppl. Even if we look at just the middle class, which is burgeoning at 150 million, the phones which are really popular in India are nokia, SE, and other brands. RIM is not even a fashion mobile. It's strictly for business purposes, used to executives and businessmen.
As I said, this seems an exercise in futility, to appease a public, irritated at how little the govt. is doing to curb terrorism.
Just me $0.02.
Abhishek:
Yes, but you're forgetting that the gov't doesn't have to come up with a plausible tale. If they think you are a terrorist that MIGHT be planning something in the future, then you are and you get shipped to another country for torture... er, I mean questioning. Yeah, questioning.
"Sign this paper stating you killed Julius Caesar and we'll stop pouring water over your head."
HAHA! Only idiots buy locked carrier phones in India. Unlocked users are safe. And the locked phones over here are total shit. Stupid black n white crap, or some shitty ancient blackberry model.
Unlocked phones are the only thing intelligent people buy.
yeah..because ALL unlocked phones in the US are old Nokia, black and white screened candy bar phones....where the hell are you living? Canada? FWA-CHOW!!! 2, count em, 2 zingers in ONE post!! IM ON FIRE BABY!!
he's not in the US christian you moron learn to read, he's in India and his english comprehension is obviously leagues above yours idiot
@ Christian Walters
you do understand that Research In Motion is a Canadian company right?
Big Brother is watching me? Well, I hope Big Brother has a strong stomach. Some secrets are best left a mystery.
[quote]FWA-CHOW!!! 2, count em, 2 zingers in ONE post!! IM ON FIRE BABY!![/quote]
I just sprayed a drink of Pepsi out of my nose and all over my screen! hahaha
that toxic corn syrup is hard to clean yknow
so when they call tech support, do you think they are talking to the person sitting next to them?
Nah, they're probably gonna look up the yellow pages for your name so that they can help them pronounce "BULL SHIT" like you do.. Jack A**
"so that *you can"
Ahem, Ahem!.. Ain't this funny.. Are they gonna really "monitor" the network? I seriously doubt that.. If there was really some "monitoring" going on there wouldn't be any terrorist attacks.. The government agencies here have like the most lazy people in the world to work for them.. Good Luck to the government with the "Monitoring"..
In other news, the Sky is Blue.. =P
It's mostly just crunched by computers. A keyword shows up in the text or sound and the computer flags it with the sender and receiver data attached. When the CIA isn't doing that, they are implanting agents into known groups and giving those groups ideas and targets. It's the laziest way to do it, and they've got decades of experience doing it.
@ameen... let me know when that gets funny for you lol not too sure why they would look me up in the yellow pages... im not asian...
and here in america bullshit is one word not two...
are they going to watch my 2 Girl 1 Cup video if i upload it with my bb?
Shameful, RIM.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to emphasize the 'IS' in Big Brother IS watching you? Since it was already well known that big brother was attempting to watch YOU for a few months now, the update would be that big brother IS watching you now.
Just a thought.....
that's not their graphic. fail. go hit the searches.
@phanbouy
"that's not their graphic"
Yeah, because Engadget never photoshops an existing graphic for their own purposes.....
Not listening to your own advice = EPIC FAIL = phanbouy......
uhm. yeah, go google it and see that they haven't photoshopped anything. man, talk about stubborn
Oh engadget... and you were doing so well too
So wait a minute, if I send an e-mail with my Blackberry to someone on an India network the Indian government can view that e-mail withoout breaking the 128 bit encryption?
This should not be ok for anyone, how can companies do business with India companies when they have to worry about the Indian government reading their e-mail or is this just accepted now in the business world?
What's to stop a terrorist adding their own extra layer of encryption on top of RIM's security as a 3rd party app and making the whole thing moot?
news just in: Commodore may eventually release a phone in the far future, sometime
quite sad. i'm sure this is the result of a politicians and their stupid games. As someone rightly said, India moves forward, INSPITE of its politicians.
btw the current Indian IT minister is an idiot, previously, he was a minsiter of agriculture/forestry or something along those lines; and now he is in IT. sad.
and Engadget, I doubt if iPhones will be as popular in India as in the US. There is minimal fanboism in India and Apple as a brand is not worshipped there.
Apparently the Indian Government wants to monitor all of the email traffic within the country....hence they shut down the BlackBerry network until RIM agreed to allow them to monitor....they ALREADY monitor normal email traffic so iPhone would be monitored just like everything else.
not good
Has anybody else noticed that this is the second 1984 allusion this week?
I wouldn't expect anything less from people who bathe in rivers of their own excrement.
ikster @ May 22nd 2008 7:24PM
I wouldn't even have noticed, save for you pointing it out. The subtle link in the article was appropriate given that Blackberry is fighting an out-and-out war against the iPhone. Your comment just made a big deal out of it, and that was entirely unnecessary.
Are Engadget Apple fanboys? I. Really. Don't. Care.
What I am sick of is the endless whining in the comments. Post something funny instead, I would much more appreciate that. And in the spirit of that, I promise this is my last anti-whining comment. Ok?
Good cause your anti-whining is as annoying as their whining!
Feel free to point out if I'm wrong, but...
I thought BlackBerry was the only secure network on the market. Isn't this why the guys in Washington picked BlackBerry for their employees' smartphones?
The Indian government, and any other, would have had free reign to view email on all other devices' networks, except for BlackBerry. This would make sense that the Indian government wanted to shut down the BlackBerry network and no others, and demand access.
The middle-class in India is around 60% right now, just as an FYI
Yes...thanks to NAFTA and corporate America outsourcing jobs the middle class of many countries is growing by leaps and bounds. Anybody take a look at our labor statistics lately and the growing number of men and women losing their jobs each month. And the more we outsource the companies that do remain here cannot compete and are going into the tank. Government won't have to worry about terrorists killing us for much longer...their trade policies already are.
first smartphone as iPhone.. lol... lot of ppl in India uses O2 XDA, Atom, HTC Touch is very popular, Jasjar also one of the popular device in India
Time to get the story straight: ALL telephone operators in the country have to give the government access to their records. That's the law -- shitty or not.
So, the telcos offering Blackberry services went and told the government that they couldn't because the server wasn't in India -- and the government told Blackberry to stop using a server in Hong Kong and start using one in India. RIM's response was to say, "Not enough users."
And another thing, FYI. Your claim that we get paid in pebbles is, well, idiotic.
If you want to buy a house in Bombay city- a small, 1 bedroom 1 bath house in South Bombay will cost you at LEAST Rs.4,00,00,000 - that's 1 Million Dollars - for an apartment.
Think about that when you consider we can't afford f**cking blackberrys you racist twat.
while I'm not surprised RIM backed down and gave them access, they were one of the last strongholds that said NO! to government monitoring. It just would have been nice if RIM made an example out of India by giving up Indian profits (pulling Blackberry coverage from india) in order to keep an almost flawless security system for the people that are actually paying them the most, its non-government customers . . . lets stand up for what's right once in awhile people, not just more money . . .a truly sad day my friends . . .
It seems like the Indian gov't doing well but you can't pull network stability from RIM hands. No offense to India, a nation that produces many technical resources, but if RIM can't get it right I doubt some bureaucrats can.
I'll just bet that Ghandi is rolling over in his current reincarnation.
Don't know if anyone has said this but...could it be POSSIBLY kara has come around to them for all the *beep*ing AOL CAT team reps?, that REFUSE to deal with troll issues? LOL!! Paybacks are a *beep* aren't they?
Sure there is a leak of information in India. Who do you think you're talking to when you call your credit card company? Who do you think is processing your tax returns? Who do you think purchased and owns the world's fiber optic networks? Yeah, they got your info already, so don't worry about it. The real info issue is your personal data that gets stolen in the US and is immediately transferred to Mexico City for new, stolen US Identifications to be used by the cartels, transferring drugs, guns, illegals into the United States while the country is distracted with other nonsense. In my state alone... Folks using these stolen ID's have secured jobs at the largest employer of illegals in the nation... The US Government!!! And in my state alone, 170,000 fradulent ID's and driver's licenses have been halted at the Motor License Branch, just this year. Don't think that's a big deal? Well just imagine if your kid, wife or family is hit by a car, driven by somebody who only has to dissapear back over the border to get a new ID? A few years ago, an entire family was wiped out in Milwaukee, WI on Interstate I-94 when their minivan was crushed by a semi-truck with one of these fraudulent ID's issued by the state of Illinois. Bet that guy is back in the United States, driving another semi-truck, with a new name and new CDL License... Not so funny now, huh?
Yeah, your information is out there and will remain out there in the public domain until congress grows some balls to make it special to be an American again. Not just an ID thief, who can steal your info from banks, internet and government agencies... use it until they get in trouble and just dissapear across the border to buy a new piece of paper and re-enter the country. Say? What ever happened to those illegals that killed those 3 college kids in NJ? You don't know either? Bet they were expedited back to Mexico for new ID's. Bet they are back on American Streets waiting to do another gang initiation. Better hope and pray, their next initiation aint your kid... All parties running for the White House seem to be on the wrong side of this issue... Where is a Republican with Balls, When the Nation Needs One?
What do you think?
I think RIM got rimmed by the indian gov but still tried to protect their arsh from geting rimmed again by the indian public,money over principle is call sell out....
http://thenewrepublican.wordpress.com/
Wake up everyone!!!!! Do you really think, especially in this age of post 9-11, that our OWN government is NOT listening in on everything we say over our phones and e-mails? Wake up.They have computers that listen for "key" words in all of our conversations so they can "red flag" certain sentences and phrases. That's the honest to goodnest truth. Big Brother is listening and watching. Just like you cannot go anywhere without being seen on a video camera. It was not that long ago that video cameras did not exist. Computers did not exist. Big Brother has always existed and has always been looking for ways to spy on us.
Thank-You for listening. To you, Big Brother....sorry to blow your cover!
FactryRatt@aol.com
Good thing that we Americans are free, and do not have Big Brother watching us, via Echelon, or even building the entire telecom system. God Bleass the USA, and keep us free from ....actually USA is worse than communist Russia ever was.......Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Good thing that we Americans are free, and do not have Big Brother watching us, via Echelon, or even building the entire telecom system. God Bleass the USA, and keep us free from ....actually USA is worse than communist Russia ever was.......Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
All Indians suck, except for Sanjay Gupta who is hot!!!!
And they smell really bad!!!!!
Forget about Mumbai, a small apartment in Jaipur itself costs Rupees 1,00,00,000 (US$ 2,40,000) and almost everyone wants to buy the apartment as they are afraid of prices going up again in a few weeks!
I am not amused by the ignorance of these racist people. A friend of mine from France told me a few days back that when he went to the US of A, he was asked by a lady whether they had televisions in France.... what else do u expect out of these tin foil heads???
Honestly, these guys need to come out of their little shell and if they don't have funds to travel and see the world, they shud do some research on the net (rather than playing on their Xbox's) before commenting on anyone in the world they haven't even seen.