Atari founder cries wolf about piracy-ending chip
By Ryan Block 
posted May 26th 2008 12:09AM
posted May 26th 2008 12:09AM
So news is making its way around the internets that at the Wedbush Morgan Securities Management Access Conference, Atari founder Nolan Bushnell proclaimed the end of PC gaming piracy as we know it, thanks to a "stealth encryption chip." The magic chip he's referring to that "will, in fact, absolutely stop piracy of gameplay"? The TPM chip -- what's been on motherboards for years, that apparently Bushnell just found out about. While the tinfoil hats in the house will likely attribute TPM (Trusted Platform Module) and other onboard crypto-chips to the eventual downfall of privacy and personal computing, to date we've yet to see piracy stunted or civil liberties breached because of the little bugger. FUD you later, Nolan.[Thanks, Carl]
People will ALWAYS manage to hack into everything. Some things will just take more time and effort than others.
didn't Sony Music invest millions/billions in some state-of-the-art anti-piracy music CD a few years ago (Celine Dion i believe) that wouldn't copy on PCs, and make macs crash? WHICH was soon hacked by a marker (ink)... does anyone else remember that?
yeah dude i'd just pry the f*cking thing off
I don't know why companies don't just accept that people are going to pirate software, movies, music and games no matter what they do.
Adobe more or less has. They were against that whole 'shut down your computer if you have pirated software' thing that Microsoft was talking about last year. Abobe knows that the amount of piracy that they suffer is far outweighed by the expansion of its market base that they get. If people know their software, then they will want to use it in their work which is where they get the big money when companies have to pay for all the licensing.
I wish Microsoft realized that, as long as they can keep their products available for everyone, it will keep their user base large.
Not that I'm belittling your comments Asha, regarding Adobe's stance on Microsoft's anti-piracy measures (which is a very valid point), but Adobe is still very much into DRM. As far as I am aware, all the CS3 Apps phone home to verify that you're a legitimate customer and Adobe has been using DRM software from Macrovision Europe Ltd. Just don't want Adobe to appear completely blameless here. :)
Yeah, people will *eventually* hack into anything. Fact is, some protection schemes take a huge amount of time and effort to hack, making them practically impenetrable. Take the latest satellite DVB encryption systems: some have been hacked, but most are still resisting. NDS has been around for a decade but no one managed to touch it; yes, there have been revisions over the years, and people even managed to reverse-engineer it and emulate a soft CAM, but no one, in the world, is able to watch these channels without a legal subscription.
Sony's OpenMG / MagicGate = out for ages
Sure we can wait some more time for it to be hacked/ cracked, but I think Sony succeeded on this one. Many many years and no hacks. People just moved away in droves.
SonicStage / MiniDisc / Hi-MD...
Never compromised.
PS3, interestingly, never really busted open.
Obviously some very smart guys in Sony know their DRM (blunders notwithstanding).
Since its a PC, there are no signed code protections.
All that needs to be done is to rebuild a working executable from a legitimate activated version or whatever.
There's no point to hack the PS3 yet, no one has blu ray burners in their computers.
Tekdroid: I think half the reason why OpenMG wasn't cracked was because there was no point. Commercial/Album MiniDiscs and Hi-MDs never really took off, and once third party programs came out that could write to MDs you didn't ever encounter DRM on ripped tracks anyway. I always used RealPlayer purely because it wrote to my MD without any DRM at all, and now Sony give you an option to leave out DRM in Sonic Stage.
It wasn't cracked because it didn't need to be....
Actually the PS3 has been hacked. I think I saw a "hello world" running on one.
404 sed:
It wasn't cracked because it didn't need to be....
-------
SonicStage of course has relaxed restrictions in recent times, but I'm sure there were many years where people had lost recordings who would disagree with the above statement.
(even today data loss still happens... happened to me on Hi-MD... zap, all gone... no way to recover the data because of Sony's proprietaryness...)
For me it was during a routine (Hi-MD) connection on the computer, copying some files and/or updating some file names or something (drag n drop style, Sonicstage not even running, non-audio being manipulated, though some audio was on the disc, too). Gone! Some disc error pops up the next second.
If the things were unencrypted I could at least attempt a recovery... (and so could so many others who lost precious recordings while editing on the disc or computer... or while the TOC was being written at the end of a recording..)
I think they did a splendid job at protecting it, because as far as I can tell the need was always there to recover recordings (and data with Hi-MD). Now they offer a recovery service, which is better than nothing (and makes them money), but the power is still in Sony's hands.
Ha, I just illegally downloaded all the radiohead albums. Wonder if this concerns pirating music.
Very wise to declare yourself a criminal publicly.
Bushnell already has said that he doesn't see this chip or anything like it affecting movies or music, because since you can always capture video and audio, there's not a lot you can do to stop that piracy. With games or software, it's different because it's interactive.
Oh yeah, and of any band, Radiohead deserves to be paid for their albums because they're true musical geniuses, and they are one of the few bands rallying against the record industry's greed right now. Fine with me if you get In Rainbows for free since they offer it, but pay for the rest. They're worth it.
Everyone should go and download the entire Metallica discography right now just to piss of Lars.
I don't know if that is your real name or not... but trust me... if it is, change it. Ditch this log in now, and create a new one. I got fired from Palm for bad mouthing their phones online and using my real name.
brandon- oddly enough, i paid 16 bucks for the In rainbows album... go figure.
And thanks micheal for being so concerned but i would never use my real name on the interwebs.
yeah. FUD you! whatever that means
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
@ anyone
What does FUD exactly mean... I would assume it would mean a rumor but wtf... or nfw
FUD is a classic Scottish swearing word. "Your a FUD"
Fud = The female genitalia.
http://www.firstfoot.com/php/glossary/phpglossar_0.8/index.php?letter=f
Can you believe he opened his mouth and allowed such bone-headedness to escape?
like a fart from his stupid ass
HA
Yep.
Eh give the aging chap some credit , although he's wayy off , remember he hasn't been " in the game" for AGES, frankly I'm supprised he even bothered reading ANYTHING about "current tech", man did make some GREAT old school games though , aand the oooold Atari ads were the WEIRDEST things I think to "grace" the 20th century
6 quotation marks, 5 commas, and 0 periods in 1 "sentence." congrats!
And four words in all caps!
And a partridge in a pear tree...
you also spelt the following words incorrectly:
way
suprised
and
old
mod chip for pc's, here we come
Could we just de-solder the chip's power and ground?
Not if they use BGA.... But then, just cut the ground PCB trace (power is useless without ground) :-)
good time to invest in hot air soldering station manufacturers
Under the chip it will have several connections to a ground plane, not a trace. You can't disconnect those without removing it. It might even be easier to open the package and cut the bonding. Better don't drink too much coffee before trying this.
I think you are missing the point. He is saying the games will come encrypted, then this chip will decrypt them on the fly. If you kill the chip, you can no longer decrypt the games and therefore you are screwed.
Paul's right. TPM is a DRM chip, and just like downloaded songs, any software using it must decrypt on the fly using the chip.
Also, any idea how widespread these chips are currently? I'm pretty sure all Macs have them. What about PCs?
Ed:
Macs do not have TPM chips. The first Intel Macs (the Developer Preview ones) did, but no other Mac has had one since then.
I wonder if anyone's told him that there are steamships that'll get you across the Atlantic Ocean from London to NYC in a matter of DAYS instead of the weeks it would take on the old clipper ships! We should probably hold off on telling him about jetliners...
Piracy will end with proprietary media using DRM to exterminate itself.
Many people will get screwed over.
...I won't be one of them.
It'll be hacked eventually, but I'd rather have something like this rather than SecuROM or software DRM. This doesn't take up system resources, doesn't need to be online to authenticate a game, and I think would be cheaper and more effective. Even if it does get circumvented with mod chips, most consumers won't be able to put one in their PC, and hopefully reduced piracy could lead to savings being passed to honest consumers.
This is, of course, if the thing worked at all, but I'd personally be fine with it since I don't pirate games. Just don't force me to connect to the internet to authenticate a game every time I play it and I'll be happy.
hear hear , the last thing I need is to be left waiting in yet another line while waiting for connection to play some tf2 or ut3 , hopefully a software anti piracy code will soon be hard enough to crack, and for those of you who do pirate ( we're all guilty some way or another...) support the games/media you love , remember they got rent and bills too...
The Steam system works pretty well enough, but there are two ways it can be improved:
1) Faster authentication
2) Allow the user to start the program even if a net connection is unavailable. The risk of piracy through this method is pretty minimal. I was on the train once, wanted to play HL2:Ep2 and it wouldn't load because there was no connection on the train :(
I hate protection software to the point that if I like a game, I buy it and then use the pirated copy. I just don't want the crap they install on your PC and I don't want the software to try to connect to the internet for no reason.
The most irritating thing is that, ironically, people who play pirated copies don't have to suffer all this, while people who buy original get to be punished.
Steam has worked pretty well in my experience. True, you can't play anything when you're offline. They have, however, come up with a surprisingly effective and non-invasive anti-piracy mechanism. It never really gets in my way, and it lets me keep copies of my (steam) games on all my computers.
These things never really work, people will always hack them.
TPM is a hardware chip that has been embedded on the mother boards of millions of business computers like the Dell Latitude D630. Intel will be integrating the TPM into its new Centrino 2 with vPro. Some say this will enable companies to sell files and restrict their copying by only selling the files to computers with TPM's. The TPM's can be embedded in all types of devices such as cell phones, PMP's, PVP's, etc.
Wave Systems Corp. (NASDAQ:WAVX) today announced it will conduct multiple demonstrations for strong authentication and data protection with its EMBASSY([R]) line of inter-operable software for managing hardware security at RSA Conference 2008, April 7-10, at the Moscone Center. Demonstrations will focus on showing available solutions that support the next-generation Intel[R] Centrino 2 with vPro technology platform (code named Montevina), with an integrated Intel[R] TPM v. 1.2. In addition, the company will also showcase its capabilities for management of the Seagate Momentus[R] 5400 FDE.2 line of FDE drives.
Wave will demonstrate its comprehensive support for the new integrated Intel TPM along with discrete TPMs. By leveraging Wave's software plus the TPM, enterprises can immediately roll out strong authentication, including machine, biometric and smart card authentication, as well as institute stronger network policies, key management and data protection.
"Intel vPro delivers built-in manageability and proactive security on business PCs," said Brian Tucker, Marketing Manager, Intel's Mobile Platform Group. "Wave System's software will complement the Intel TPM 1.2 hardware to help deliver enhanced security to mobile and desktop business PCs, including mobile and desktop systems based on the Intel Centrino 2 processor with vPro technology."
Wave will also be demonstrating its Trusted Drive Manager and EMBASSY Remote Administration Server (ERAS) 1.5 software for managing Momentus[R] 5400 FDE.2 drive from Seagate Technology at the conference.
The EMBASSY Trusted Drive Manager software simplifies deployment and usage of FDE hard drives, making it easier for system administrators and users to set and control hard drive policies, security settings, and to create and backup passwords. The software also enables administrators of the FDE.2 hard drives to instantly and easily perform a cryptographic erase of all data so that the drives can be safely redeployed or discarded.
You're obviously quoting some kind of press release or marketing materials. Care to source your information?
My previous comment included a Business Wire press release for Wave Systems. I do have stock in Wave Systems(WAVX).
http://www.wave.com/news/
They helped create the TPM chip. They are a founding member of the Trusted Computing Group which set the standards for the chip. Other members are Microsoft, AMD, Intel, HP, IBM, Sun Microsystems, Infineon, and Lenovo. There are over 60 other companies that are contributors; such as Sony, Nokia, Dell, Seagate, Toshiba, etc.
https://www.trustedcomputinggroup.org/about/members/
Lee, MA — May 12, 2008 — Wave Systems Corp. (NASDAQ: WAVX; www.wave.com ) announced it is participating in Dell’s global “Future of Computing” Road Show, demonstrating the company’s hardware-based data protection solutions with Seagate Technology, LLC. The tour encompasses 149 cities worldwide, with the first leg of the U.S. tour starting May 13, 2008 in Pittsburgh. The European tour began in Berlin on April 22, 2008. The full tour is expected to draw close to 10,000 attendees comprised of IT directors, managers and administrators.
Seagate press release.
Your personal identity is about to get a little bit safer, said the National Security Agency.
Shares of Seagate Technologies (nyse: STX - news - people ) jumped 9.3%, or $1.87, to $21.92, on Wednesday afternoon after the company announced that its self-encrypting hard-drive, the Momentus 5400 FDE.2, was given the prestigious designation by the NSA of being worthy of use in U.S. government computers.
The Momentus uses a password and authentication code to identify a user and protects everything on a laptop's hard-drive from access by thieves. The Momentus also has the ability to wipe a hard-drive clean; saving people the time and money of clearing the data themselves. The device works even in instances when the laptop is stolen or sold.
The NSA is the encryption and code-breaking arm of the U.S. government.
"Your personal identity is about to get a little bit safer, said the National Security Agency."
Funny how big companies limiting their clients privacy and being able to choose which software they can run is a matter of improved personal identity. Well, if they go on like this, they will surely pinpoint all your activities and identify you, defending big brother practices with security concerns.
The Trusted Platform will allow companies to forbid execution of programs they don't like, even after you've paid for it, for just whatever reason they see fit. They'll just say so in the EULA with pretty, misgiving words and people won't have a clue of what's happening until it's too late.
Instead of wasting millions in anti-piracy technology, developers should just lower their prices a bit to make the stuff more affordable, especially in developing countries (same goes for music which I hate to waste empty discs on just to remove the DRM wrapper).
Says the guy with the Windows Genuine Advantage icon :) The irony is like milk and honey at my lips.
I don't pirate stuff btw, just a reminder for all my friends who do, while buying new designer phones and shoes every 2 months.
OpenSource and GPL + evaluation downloads are taking more and more over, by the time this "Chip" gets in actual use it will be rendered useless because of the new growing business model.
It´s doomed from birth.
Who is he trying to convince?
Here's a good short video about Trusted Computing, what it is and why it really doesn't sound that awesome:
http://www.lafkon.net/tc/
interesting to see so many dismiss the the trusted computing platform when I bet they don't even know much about it.
It could well sound the end of freedom in the computing world and you'll only be allowed to run specified programs, files and OS's that you have been granted permission for.
So, go ahead and mock someone for mentioning and bringing this system back into the minds of people and when the future many are predicting happens, you only have yourselves to blame for not standing up.
Personally, I find it hard to believe that such a restrictive environment could work, but then it has the backing of some massive companies and as the music industry has shown (considering that just one of the companies behind the trusted computing group is bigger than the entire music industry) that if you have the right people pushing your agenda you can get anything to happen.
The moment such a scheme is implemented you could plot a trend that showed the death of PC gaming.
"Hey! Goose! I'm gonna gut you even if it hurts me."
Meh!
Ummmm,
Both this article and Atari's founder are apparently quite ignorant.
TPM has NOTHING to do with ending piracy. TPM isn't even capable of doing this. TPM is purely a certificate store to enhance the USER's privacy and security. It's is utterly useless for any other purpose, specially the 'real time crypto' functionality that has been FALSELY attributed to it. This is not what TPM does. Not even close. FUD much?
For more ACCURATE information regarding what TPM is and isn't, refer to the box titled 'Are TPMs Evil?' on this page: http://www.osxinternals.com/book/bonus/chapter10/tpm/
Even if they did manage to get it working and make games unpiratable, do they really think that this will increase their sales? People download pirated stuff just because they can and it's free, they wouldn't buy it otherwise. Those who would buy the game do. Look at an economics demand curve, if the price is zero, the demand is way about what it would be if the game was at its real price.
Nolan you old fartknocker, whats all the hub bub, Bub. There is already a software piracy solution out there and its starting to make its way into newer PC software/games more and more. Uncommonly referred to as "HOME PHONING", it simply makes a validation key/authentication/piece retrieval call to a server EVERY time the software is run. The assumption (and rightfully so) is that the majority of modern PCs are web enabled and connected. Don't like it? FU, don't use the software/game! This effectively puts "the ball back in the hackers court", so ANTI UP BITCHES ;^)...
PS. So sit back in that jacuzzi and let us youngsters fight this round since you and the other old timers already lost yours, miserably!
How did these old timers lose "the battle"? Rosenthal, Bushnell and the like are the real pioneers of the current multi-billion dollar gaming industry.
(IMO - Ryan should ease his rhetoric as he is merely an observer of technology than an innovator himself. I understand his posts must provoke spirited conversation but most of the time they just amplify his ignorance)
Wishful thinking, Vista uses the TPM chip for some anti piracy already and I've been told it has already been hacked. Apparently whenever the chip was used they just sprayed compressed air over the ram, booted into Linux and sniffed out the keys from the RAM used for the TPM chip. End of priacy... yeah right.
In the words of Master chief from Another Halo Comic Strip, "I'm gonna call you Nolan Douchenell from now on, okay?" (or something like that0
An end to PC piracy might be a good thing - it might be necessary in order to save PC gaming.
PC game sales are dying - no PC FPS has since surpassed the original Half-Life, released 10 years ago. As a result, fewer big-budget PC games are produced each year, and developers who have traditionally focused on the PC are turning to game consoles. If this trend continues, there won't be any hard-core PC games produced in the future!
Watching PC Gamers deny the problem of piracy is like watching the U.S. deny their recession. It's very simple: if fewer people buy a game, less money will be put into making the game and there's less incentive to make future games. If an end to piracy leads to increased sales, it will lead to more games and bigger-budget games! And that would be a good thing for gamers.
That's because no game has been as good as the original Half Life.
Companies started to rely on better graphics to sell games, not the content. While some games manage to have both (Crysis is actually pretty fun), most don't, and the easiest one to have is good graphics.
WOW sold more games that wii+ps3 and xbox360 altogether.
This is actually good news, instead of downloading crappy games, people will be forced to buy them... This will force gaming company's to finally start producing good games or else no one will buy them ! just my opinion.
P.s
Some one out there will eventually find a way to crack this system or find a work around.
Im Sorry To Say a TPM wont Do Anything...Look At OSx86 and Vista OEM Hacks...
I'm pretty sure that PC games are pirated because of prices and such, mostly.
Anytime I'm tempted to pirate a game it's either because I can't afford it or because it's rated 'M' (I'm 16), and the only system I own is PC.
there are several other reason for piracy, for example to play uncatalogued, foreign or hard to find games
You don't have civil liberties in the U.S. unless you're a minority. Read up on the constitution.