Uhhh, considering Dell currently has over a 30% market share of computers shipped last quarter and Apple is at 5%...Michael has pretty much already been kicking Jobs' ass for years.* Dell even topped HP last quarter.
I'd say that pretty much makes him the heavyweight champion. Apple still has HP, Acer, Toshiba and Lenovo to beat before it can even get a shot...and that's in the US. Outside of North America, Apple does even merit a back alley scuffle.
Of course, we're talking a physical beatdown here...Dell is a good 'ole Texan and no small fellow like Jobs.
(*according to figures from top analyst firms Gartner and IDC)
Oh yeah, Brad, quote that worthless number market share and then make wildly ludicrous claims.
Apple, with seven percent market share, makes more money than Dell, and has a bigger market capitalization (i.e. they're worth more) than Dell to boot! They also have a big pile of cash that Dell only could dream about as they try to stave off bankruptcy. Or hadn't you noticed they had to can their CEO for poor performance and bring Michael back from the old folks home?
So, I'd say Steve is beating the tar out of Michael with his pinky finger like the business Zen master that he is.
um...hey brad, now lets look at some other numbers, Apples worth 164 billion and Dell 44 billion "close down the company and give the money back to it's shareholders" - Michael Dell on Apple 10 yrs ago hmm Id give that advice to Michael right about now
Yeah, Dell is way ahead, and has been for years, but Apple is totally gaining on them. They're flying by everyone except Dell. Q1'07 Dell was up 15.7%, Apple was up 32.5%. Give them both credit, as the total industry growth was only 3%, but Apple is sure gaining on them.
Also, they ARE ahead of Toshiba, and are set to pass Acer I'd say by Q1'09. HP will take a good number of years to come and Dell will be a LONG time, but it's possible.
"Apple, with seven percent market share, makes more money than Dell, and has a bigger market capitalization (i.e. they're worth more) than Dell to boot! They also have a big pile of cash that Dell only could dream about as they try to stave off bankruptcy."
You mean somehow, Apple makes more money with significantly lower market share? It is almost as if Apple products are way overpriced...
Or...Grimble if you had a brain you would know that Apple sells more then just computers, they have a thriving mp3 player its called an iPod have you heard of it? Oh yes then we have the iPhone and Apple TV and Final Cut and various other Pro Apps that are widely used. Whats more is that if you configure a comparable dell computer it comes out to about the same price jut look at dells iMac clone its more expensive, slower, uglier and crappie for more whats not to love?
• iTunes is the number retailer of music, online, or brick and mortar.
• the iPod is so popular that some people call all MP3 players iPods.
• Apple's Pro software apps are used in high percentages of professional studios of all kinds.
• Apple's up and coming iPhone is wildly popular (whether the general public owns one or not, they know what it is, and they know the "cool factor" surrounding it)
Dell doesn't sell music, movies, tv shows, movie rentals, audibooks, ringtones, industry standard-setting media players, any significant sort of software (witch is a HUGE part of Apple's business), operating systems, or mobile phones. And I'm sure some other things I can't think of.
Obviously I was talking about overall computer sales...the area where Apple is almost dead last. Even Dell's N-series LINUX desktops make up more than 1% of the market. That's what Dell does - computers rather it be workstation or server flavored.
Now, I would have to agree with you all if we were talking about MP3 players...but that is a 100% consumer product. For me, personally, I make my money in the business world. Sure, I provide Macs to all of my artists but that is the lowest minority in my company. It's a PC world and even my engineer's Sun boxes out number the designers. That's why I give my props to Dell.
Where you're right, you're right...this year Apple's overall market value has quadrupled Dell. However, Dell is nearly four times Apple's size - and size is a major determinant of market cap. Period. To deliver 15% growth in the upcoming year, $55 billion-a-year Dell has to find $8.25 billion in extra sales. But Apple, at $13.9 billion in overall sales, would have to find just $2 billion. That figures (among many other small things) are proportionate to determining market share worth...which I'm not degrading. After all, that's what every share holder cares about.
My point with all of this? Comparing Jobs and Dell is like comparing Steve Jobs and John Chambers - CEO of Cisco (market val of 145 billion for those counting). It's just nonsense. A better fight would be Dell and Chambers.
However, if you really want to play the "other numbers", Microsoft sits at about 262 Billion...and mainly all they do is software (Xbox and Zune are barely profitable)...does that make Bill Gates the "Zen Master" and a bad ass compared to hippie Jobs?
Brad thats where your wrong AGAIN Apple it certainly NOT in last place on the contrary they are about to take 3rd place behind dell and hp they are moving up. Also in your post you mentioned Apple has to beat lenovo and toshiba...well they did already so get your facts straight. Apple has the most market share in the student market and they have 66% of ALL computers sold over $1,000 in the U.S. As a side note Michael Dell is a nothing compared to Jobs all Dell did was manufacture cheap computers Steve invented the personal computer as well as the iPod and so on... So overall Steve made a far greater impact on the world then dell could ever so dont even put them in the same boat again..thanks
Alright ef15e, I don't know what reports you are looking at but I'm looking at the IDC (www.idc.com)...they are pretty much the industry defacto within this realm. I won't fanboy jibber-jabber like yourself. Have a look:
Sure, if you want to slice and dice every way that's cool. Apple has 14% market share in the retail sector of PCs sold over $1000. Does that make you pee your pants?? How about if we look at Mac owning, blonde hair people living in the 805 area code driving a Toyota. That may get your numbers up too.
So please, AGAIN, post something to back your claims because you are WRONG AGAIN....with pretty much everything. I don't even want to touch the "invented the personal computer" comment.
Now run along and get back to bagging my groceries.
Alright ef15e, I don't know what reports you are looking at but I'm looking at the IDC (www.idc.com)...they are pretty much the industry defacto within this realm. I won't fanboy jibber-jabber like yourself. Have a look:
Sure, if you want to slice and dice every way that's cool. Apple has 14% market share in the retail sector of PCs sold over $1000. Does that make you pee your pants?? How about if we look at the Mac owning, blonde hair people living in the 805 area code driving a Toyota. That may get your numbers up too.
So please, AGAIN, post something to back your claims because you are WRONG AGAIN....with pretty much everything. I don't even want to touch the "invented the personal computer" comment.
Now run along and get back to bagging my groceries.
Apple third place: In the U.S., Dell shipped 5.01 million PCs in the third quarter, a 4.8 percent drop compared to last year. HP's PC shipments increased 16.9 percent to 4.35 million, accounting for 24.3 percent of the market. In third place was Apple, whose year-over-year shipments increased 15.9 percent to 1.13 million. Gateway, which shipped 865,000 PCs, recorded a 14.2 percent year-over-year fall. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/138620/apple_mac_shipments_surge.html You also have to remember that Apple doesn't sell cheap crap like dell every computer starts at over $1,000 where as dells crap starts at $200 so its like comparing lamborghinis to kias.
Again, you just reiterated my point. That is 66% of computers above $1000 sold in US RETAIL STORES...nothing at all to do with world wide or North American sales. Trust me, NASA or Lockheed Martin do not go down to the mall and buy comptuers from the store.
You're scrambling to find every small, sliced up number to increase your percentage amount. I guess next you'll boast 99% of the market for white laptops sold on Tuesday and then yell that Apple is king??
Look, I don't hate Apple...I just don't believe in oogling them until they have captured a decent part of the market. Steve Jobs is not the messiah, Leopard isn't the perfect OS, iPods are not flawless and their computers are definitely not revolutionary - just aesthetically pleasing. Until Apple does better than 2.9% and I see businesses (that matter) actually using Apple this is all a moot point.
brad, there are plenty of businesses that are now supporting Macs as more and more people request them especially when its a company executive, they will have a large part of the business world soon especially with the iPhone poised to fight the blackberry in that field there are ALOT of companies that now are using iPhones over blackberry and alot more to come. Nike: “With support for Exchange ActiveSync in this new iPhone release, Apple is offering a plug-and-play enterprise solution," said Roland Paanakker, vice president and CIO Nike. "We already have Nike employees using iPhones, and now look forward to deploying more iPhones across our business.” Oh yes and the military too is using more macs for better security... http://gizmodo.com/337077/us-army-to-instigate-wider-mac-implementation
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Of course that's the headline. You're talking to Dell. What did you think, they were gonna launch some Innovative and Cool products?
Get these posers out of here. Where's Jobs?
Uhhh, considering Dell currently has over a 30% market share of computers shipped last quarter and Apple is at 5%...Michael has pretty much already been kicking Jobs' ass for years.* Dell even topped HP last quarter.
I'd say that pretty much makes him the heavyweight champion. Apple still has HP, Acer, Toshiba and Lenovo to beat before it can even get a shot...and that's in the US. Outside of North America, Apple does even merit a back alley scuffle.
Of course, we're talking a physical beatdown here...Dell is a good 'ole Texan and no small fellow like Jobs.
(*according to figures from top analyst firms Gartner and IDC)
Oh yeah, Brad, quote that worthless number market share and then make wildly ludicrous claims.
Apple, with seven percent market share, makes more money than Dell, and has a bigger market capitalization (i.e. they're worth more) than Dell to boot! They also have a big pile of cash that Dell only could dream about as they try to stave off bankruptcy. Or hadn't you noticed they had to can their CEO for poor performance and bring Michael back from the old folks home?
So, I'd say Steve is beating the tar out of Michael with his pinky finger like the business Zen master that he is.
um...hey brad, now lets look at some other numbers, Apples worth 164 billion and Dell 44 billion "close down the company and give the money back to it's shareholders" - Michael Dell on Apple 10 yrs ago hmm Id give that advice to Michael right about now
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2008/04/16/184551-gartner_1Q08_us.png
Yeah, Dell is way ahead, and has been for years, but Apple is totally gaining on them. They're flying by everyone except Dell. Q1'07 Dell was up 15.7%, Apple was up 32.5%. Give them both credit, as the total industry growth was only 3%, but Apple is sure gaining on them.
Also, they ARE ahead of Toshiba, and are set to pass Acer I'd say by Q1'09. HP will take a good number of years to come and Dell will be a LONG time, but it's possible.
Hey nerds: the article is about a fist-fight. Ye gods, stay on point.
"Apple, with seven percent market share, makes more money than Dell, and has a bigger market capitalization (i.e. they're worth more) than Dell to boot! They also have a big pile of cash that Dell only could dream about as they try to stave off bankruptcy."
You mean somehow, Apple makes more money with significantly lower market share? It is almost as if Apple products are way overpriced...
Or...Grimble if you had a brain you would know that Apple sells more then just computers, they have a thriving mp3 player its called an iPod have you heard of it?
Oh yes then we have the iPhone and Apple TV and Final Cut and various other Pro Apps that are widely used.
Whats more is that if you configure a comparable dell computer it comes out to about the same price jut look at dells iMac clone its more expensive, slower, uglier and crappie for more whats not to love?
Yeah, that, or:
• iTunes is the number retailer of music, online, or brick and mortar.
• the iPod is so popular that some people call all MP3 players iPods.
• Apple's Pro software apps are used in high percentages of professional studios of all kinds.
• Apple's up and coming iPhone is wildly popular (whether the general public owns one or not, they know what it is, and they know the "cool factor" surrounding it)
Dell doesn't sell music, movies, tv shows, movie rentals, audibooks, ringtones, industry standard-setting media players, any significant sort of software (witch is a HUGE part of Apple's business), operating systems, or mobile phones. And I'm sure some other things I can't think of.
Maybe that's why.
Obviously I was talking about overall computer sales...the area where Apple is almost dead last. Even Dell's N-series LINUX desktops make up more than 1% of the market. That's what Dell does - computers rather it be workstation or server flavored.
Now, I would have to agree with you all if we were talking about MP3 players...but that is a 100% consumer product. For me, personally, I make my money in the business world. Sure, I provide Macs to all of my artists but that is the lowest minority in my company. It's a PC world and even my engineer's Sun boxes out number the designers. That's why I give my props to Dell.
Where you're right, you're right...this year Apple's overall market value has quadrupled Dell. However, Dell is nearly four times Apple's size - and size is a major determinant of market cap. Period. To deliver 15% growth in the upcoming year, $55 billion-a-year Dell has to find $8.25 billion in extra sales. But Apple, at $13.9 billion in overall sales, would have to find just $2 billion. That figures (among many other small things) are proportionate to determining market share worth...which I'm not degrading. After all, that's what every share holder cares about.
My point with all of this? Comparing Jobs and Dell is like comparing Steve Jobs and John Chambers - CEO of Cisco (market val of 145 billion for those counting). It's just nonsense. A better fight would be Dell and Chambers.
However, if you really want to play the "other numbers", Microsoft sits at about 262 Billion...and mainly all they do is software (Xbox and Zune are barely profitable)...does that make Bill Gates the "Zen Master" and a bad ass compared to hippie Jobs?
Brad thats where your wrong AGAIN Apple it certainly NOT in last place on the contrary they are about to take 3rd place behind dell and hp they are moving up. Also in your post you mentioned Apple has to beat lenovo and toshiba...well they did already so get your facts straight. Apple has the most market share in the student market and they have 66% of ALL computers sold over $1,000 in the U.S.
As a side note Michael Dell is a nothing compared to Jobs all Dell did was manufacture cheap computers Steve invented the personal computer as well as the iPod and so on... So overall Steve made a far greater impact on the world then dell could ever so dont even put them in the same boat again..thanks
Alright ef15e, I don't know what reports you are looking at but I'm looking at the IDC (www.idc.com)...they are pretty much the industry defacto within this realm. I won't fanboy jibber-jabber like yourself. Have a look:
http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS21190708
Apple sits currently sitting at 2.9% as of this month. Do you want to do the remedial math again? How about a graph to help?
http://fortuneapple20.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/idc-market-share.jpg
Sure, if you want to slice and dice every way that's cool. Apple has 14% market share in the retail sector of PCs sold over $1000. Does that make you pee your pants?? How about if we look at Mac owning, blonde hair people living in the 805 area code driving a Toyota. That may get your numbers up too.
So please, AGAIN, post something to back your claims because you are WRONG AGAIN....with pretty much everything. I don't even want to touch the "invented the personal computer" comment.
Now run along and get back to bagging my groceries.
Alright ef15e, I don't know what reports you are looking at but I'm looking at the IDC (www.idc.com)...they are pretty much the industry defacto within this realm. I won't fanboy jibber-jabber like yourself. Have a look:
http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS21190708
Apple sits currently sitting at 2.9% as of this month. Do you want to do the remedial math again? How about a graph to help?
http://fortuneapple20.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/idc-market-share.jpg
Sure, if you want to slice and dice every way that's cool. Apple has 14% market share in the retail sector of PCs sold over $1000. Does that make you pee your pants?? How about if we look at the Mac owning, blonde hair people living in the 805 area code driving a Toyota. That may get your numbers up too.
So please, AGAIN, post something to back your claims because you are WRONG AGAIN....with pretty much everything. I don't even want to touch the "invented the personal computer" comment.
Now run along and get back to bagging my groceries.
Ok brad here,
Apples Market Share of computers of $1,000: 66%
http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/05/19/report-apples-market-share-of-pcs-over-1000-hits-66/
Apple third place: In the U.S., Dell shipped 5.01 million PCs in the third quarter, a 4.8 percent drop compared to last year. HP's PC shipments increased 16.9 percent to 4.35 million, accounting for 24.3 percent of the market. In third place was Apple, whose year-over-year shipments increased 15.9 percent to 1.13 million. Gateway, which shipped 865,000 PCs, recorded a 14.2 percent year-over-year fall.
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/138620/apple_mac_shipments_surge.html
You also have to remember that Apple doesn't sell cheap crap like dell every computer starts at over $1,000 where as dells crap starts at $200 so its like comparing lamborghinis to kias.
Again, you just reiterated my point. That is 66% of computers above $1000 sold in US RETAIL STORES...nothing at all to do with world wide or North American sales. Trust me, NASA or Lockheed Martin do not go down to the mall and buy comptuers from the store.
You're scrambling to find every small, sliced up number to increase your percentage amount. I guess next you'll boast 99% of the market for white laptops sold on Tuesday and then yell that Apple is king??
Look, I don't hate Apple...I just don't believe in oogling them until they have captured a decent part of the market. Steve Jobs is not the messiah, Leopard isn't the perfect OS, iPods are not flawless and their computers are definitely not revolutionary - just aesthetically pleasing. Until Apple does better than 2.9% and I see businesses (that matter) actually using Apple this is all a moot point.
brad, there are plenty of businesses that are now supporting Macs as more and more people request them especially when its a company executive, they will have a large part of the business world soon especially with the iPhone poised to fight the blackberry in that field there are ALOT of companies that now are using iPhones over blackberry and alot more to come. Nike:
“With support for Exchange ActiveSync in this new iPhone release, Apple is offering a plug-and-play enterprise solution," said Roland Paanakker, vice president and CIO Nike. "We already have Nike employees using iPhones, and now look forward to deploying more iPhones across our business.”
Oh yes and the military too is using more macs for better security... http://gizmodo.com/337077/us-army-to-instigate-wider-mac-implementation
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/08_19/b4083036428429.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_dialogue+with+readers