Palm claims larger share of smartphone market, has Centro to thank

What's this? Some joyous news on the Palm front? No need to Windex your spectacles -- the aforementioned handset maker has indeed managed to up its share of the smartphone market from 7.9% in the fourth quarter to 13.4% today, largely thanks to the popularity of its Centro. In general, analysts seemed quite pleased by the gains, noting that it (along with RIM) were able to take advantage of the 7.5% skid experienced by Apple during the same period. Despite the recent gains, Palm's market share is still down from 23% in Q1 a year ago, but considering the sweeping slump in cellphone sales of late, we'd say this should still go down as a victory -- however minor -- for the firm.

[Via Palm InfoCenter]

[Engadgetluvsappl @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:23PM]

Are these statistics for the US of A?

[Rafer @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:24PM]

Can i get a list of the market sharers? ok palm has 13% who has the rest

[SHoe @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:40PM]

Well RIM has the biggest news here: they are at 44.5% of the smartphone market - looks like they are holding their own pretty nicely against Apple (with it's 19.2%) for this first quarter.

I think what we are seeing is something predicted by a number of people last year: market saturation of Apple's target demographic / fans. I.e. most of the people who were going to buy an iPhone went out and bought one already. There are those who have been holding out for the 3G model all along of course. And that is only a generalization about their market - they obviously contiunue to sell iPhones everyday. But compared to the others, the Apple approach seems to work-out this way.

So it is not surprising that last summer / falls numbers are not as sustainable as companies that have a wider portfolio of phones.

[ChuChu @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:46PM]

@shoe

You are right the RIM news is definitely big especially in light of the fact that analysts have been predicting their demise for some time now.

Check this out, from Fortune/CNN Money just 2 weeks ago:

http://techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/05/12/the-blackberry-is-in-for-a-bruising/

[Surur @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:57PM]

One also has to keep in mind that around 50% of Apple's 19% share went to smugglers, who took the iPhones to China and other parts of the world. Due to the weak dollar USA is the cheapest place to buy an iPhone to unlock.

Also dont let anyone tell you the drop is due to shortages - this is for January, February and March 2008, well before the April/May shortages, and also well before the 3G iPhone was expected to be released.

In fact, its quite possible Palm sold more phones to Americans than Apple did in Q1 2008. They should be proud of that.

[SHoe @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:00PM]

I was a partner in a 'mobile software' company back in 2000. Back then, everybody was predicting the imminent demise of RIM at the hands of Palm and Windows Mobile.

If there is one thing since then is to not ever predict the death of RIM. I have seen predictions come and go 20 times in the last 8 years! engadget has posted articles implying that Apple was hurting RIM (they pointed to a stock price comparison showing 1 afternoon! Go check Apple versus RIM stock growth over the last year.

And I say this as a person with a hefty amount of grievances against RIM (both as a developer and a user). And I think the iPhone UI is obviously superior. But RIM adapts like nobodies business: clamshell phone is coming, touch screen devices, more enterprise qwerty and consumer candy-bar phones every few months with new features, etc. Those guys keeping ramping it up. Though not a big fan of their gear, I’m impressed by the way they run their business.

[Rich @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:25PM]

Apple's market share is DOWN and Palm's market share is UP?

What a crazy world we live in.

[Mauricio @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:04PM]

That crazy world is 1996 or and alternate 2008.

Can someone tell Doc Brown to stop fucking with the spacetime continuum before my mom marries the neighborhood asshole.

[Kent Pribbernow @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:06PM]

Apple's marketshare is down because iPhone availability is down. You can't sell what you don't stock. That will remain the case until the 3G iPhone becomes widely available and channels begin filling up with steady inventory.

[CraigJ @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:30PM]

Yeah, don't forget that Apple hasn't had iPhones available for about 3 weeks now.

[Rich @ Jun 2nd 2008 7:19PM]

"Apple's marketshare is down because iPhone availability is down. You can't sell what you don't stock. That will remain the case until the 3G iPhone becomes widely available and channels begin filling up with steady inventory."

These are Q1 results, i.e. January to March. That's when the iPhone was pretty much in stock everywhere.

[thebigDallas @ Jun 3rd 2008 12:16AM]

well someone needs to let doc brown know that his courthouse just burned down

[JMMGoalster @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:28PM]

Oh great...now wel have iEye and co. try to refute the "7.5% skid experienced by Apple" comment....

[Steffen Jobbs @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:17PM]

Apple takes the iPhone out of the sales chain combined with the fact that so many people holding out for the 3G iPhone has caused Apple to experience a loss of market share. Nothing to refute. No product, no sales.

What really will matter is when the 3G iPhone is introduced to 70 countries with a total of a billion potential customers. With production going 110% over the next two quarters the iPhone's market share will explode and by the end of the year it might trail the BlackBerry by a small percentage. It's YOY growth that matters, not just one quarter. When the Christmas holidays come which is always Apple's best quarter, nearly everyone that can afford one will want an iPhone and not a Palm Centro.

Palm will be left in the proverbial dust. They won't be able to give Centros away at half the price. The Palm Centro is at best, an adequate smartphone geared for people who'll settle for anything cheap. I mean, look at that thing. It looks like a smartphone designed for a six-year-old to play with.

Other than for its really low price, why anyone would buy this over a BlackBerry or an iPhone in the U.S. or Europe is just flat-out unfathomable. Now maybe in some poor third-world country it would make great sense.

[JMMGoalster @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:35PM]

@Steffen Jobbs

The iPhone was a great, innovative device, I won't take that away from it; however, saying its going to be top-of-the-line for years to come is just wrong. Everyone has multi-touch, data access, email, etc. The iPhone will have to do more than just offer 3G in order to gain a substantial network share, because everyone has caught up and is moving past it.

[Fusion @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:36PM]

oh dear, why would anyone want a palm, absolute junk and useless ugly DATED OS

[imacmatt09 @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:43PM]

The phone doesn't look bad. But the OS needs some major improvements. The GUI is stuck in the 90's. With a new OS I wouldn't mind having a palm.

[Kurian @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:46PM]

I agree. But on the other hand, I now feel that ALL smartphones are ridiculously expensive for their supposedly superior features!

I now have my phone separate from my multimedia device (PSP). I bought an ultra cheap ass Nokia 1112. I needn't even be careful with it because its indestructible, and second its almost worthless. The PSP provides all other needs once properly setup with applications.

[Kim @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:47PM]

Remember the MotoRAZR?

It had a crappy OS minimal amount of RAM and shitty cammera on top of that it had a whooping high price.

Most people when buying a phone don't even know what OS it is running neither do they care. They buy the phone for its phisical looks mostly. The centro is the smallest full QWERTY phone available. Many regular phone users refused to move to smartphones due to the size and price centro solves both.

[SHoe @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:50PM]

Because many think that the whether or not the OS is new or advanced (i.e. proper multitasking), it does what they want and has a user interface that is still more direct and easy to use then Windows Mobile. It's generally a lot snappier too - of course that's because it is running that ol' antique OS on new hardware.

Personally I like the Palm OS UI and everything other mobile OS is either good because it borrows from or extends this paradigm - or they flat out suck (Start button on your phone anybody! 7 taps to get to the screen to shut down apps! 'advanced' my ass...).

But yeah - that ol dog is just painful to see limping along like that. We loved Old Yeller too - but then the time came to do what had to be done...

[Chuck @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:23PM]

Many of Palm's Treo's, and all of their latest, run Windows Mobile.

Why would someone want an ugly outdated OS? Well, because it's very easy to use, and it has nice, large icons and fonts.

[ChillyWilly @ Jun 3rd 2008 1:28PM]

Sure, there's some outdated-ness to the Palm OS, but it works and it's stable for a lot of people. While I'm not that fond of the Centro (keyboard too small), I love my Treo 755p and how it works very well for me.

[Mischa Lockton @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:42PM]

I wonder where the new Palm OS is? Come on guys, you sold out to WinMobile. I love my 700p.

After this new GPS/3G/ETC iPhone comes out, Apple will be grabbing more share I guarantee. If they did CDMA I would get one.

[Yakownski @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:50PM]

Another nail in Palm Coffin!!!!


Palm is doooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddddddddddd.

So is Nintendo. Wii what a silly name they think they will sell even 100 of those stupid white iPod wannabe consoles?

And the Centro another stupid white iPod wanabe. I bet Palm won't even sell 50 of those crappy phones.

[David @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:55PM]

Sarc I hope

[ryan @ Jun 2nd 2008 10:56PM]

i know sarcasm can be hard to read, and even harder to write, but this looks like pretty obvious sarcasm to me, hardly low ranked material. or maybe it was the annoyingly exaggerated doom that did it..who knows.

[Alex @ Jun 2nd 2008 4:52PM]

At least they made some progress.

They need to stay focused though.

[io @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:08PM]

no sir, even palm giving it away free I still don't want one. Appearance alone sucked bad, don't even start with functionality.
I do not want to be seem with this device.

[Mauricio @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:09PM]

as much as i agree with Fusion, Kim is 100% correct.

[Steve @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:23PM]

I don't uderstant why people complaint so much about Palm OS vs WM (by the way Palm sells WM phones too nut just Palm OS.)

In the general phone market the real ones gettin the lion's share of sales are not WM, iPhone or Blackberry, the largest market share is owned by regular feture phones running crappy unknown propietary "os" that does not do multitasking or even run installable apps.

Another example of the OS being insignificant to consumers is the eeePC, the linux version has a very stripped down version of Xandros linux that is archaic and limited. Also it is abailable with Windows XP (a 7 years old OS!). This has not stopped it from being a market success.

People say Palm Os is old, XP is older!!!

The lesson here is that non geek consumers want a device that is small, cheap and does what they need. And the Centro is doing that for many consumers.

[tekdroid @ Jun 3rd 2008 6:49AM]

Steve sez:
The lesson here is that non geek consumers want a device that is small, cheap and does what they need. And the Centro is doing that for many consumers.
---------
I would rank as one of those.

Steve, you're talking too much sense. The posters want an OS war and you better let them have it! ;)

What a lot of you complaining about Palm are doing is forgetting the basics:

"Does this phone do what I want to do at x dollars?"
"Does it do it well at x dollars?"

That's the basics.
If you can offer something that competes better, by all means suggest it. But don't compare it to devices 2-6 times the price.

[Kevin @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:10PM]

Most people complaint about Palm OS is that it looks dated, that is easily solved just by chanching the skin:

http://www.3gxsoft.com/palmrevolt/

or here for freeware skins:

http://www.palmpowerups.com/readarticle.php?article_id=2

They look much better than Blackberry and WinMo IMHO.

And about multitasking, I don't see that as an issue, I can hear music on a palm handheld and at the same time run IM on the background an surf the web. Not real multitasking but works well.

[Chuck @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:28PM]

Good points. I got a WM Mogul here recently, and I actually hate it. Maybe it's because of my bias for Palm, but it's probably because I'm sick of having to tap 3-4 times to open an application, then 4-5 more to actually close it from memory.

I'm probably in the minority, but as long as I can listen to music and IM virtually in the background I don't want multitasking. It slows down a mobile device too much (or kills the battery).

[Kevin @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:33PM]

Chuck:

It is not just bias. I started out on WinMo and switched to palm. I got tired of the slowness and complexity.

And with the skins I posted the old Palm OS looks newer than WinMo 6!
You can make it look like Window Vista, XP, MacOSX you name it.

[DarkLight @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:36PM]

Ah, finally someone who is aware that PalmOS is a customizable OS and you don't have to use the stock worthless stuff...

I have a palm with PalmOS (actually Garnet, they changed the name), and it's anything but outdated..

There are nice skins (SkinUI > PalmRevolt): http://www.palmpowerups.com/readarticle.php?article_id=2

Nice clocks that you wish you could have in real life: http://www.palmarysoft.com/clock_skins.php?cat_name=Metal&page=1

And a nice launcher with a nice skin always makes it killer: http://www.1src.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92624

[Darkest Daze @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:28PM]

Now the real question...Why won't Palm just upgrade the default skin to something a little less flat and ugly. It's not like it's hard to add a little bit of style, as you're pointed out. The default look just sticks out like a sore thumb, now-a-days. Every time I see a screenshot of the default icons and color scheme, it just screams "Windows 3.1" or "DOS Shell" to me.

[keithwwalker @ Jun 3rd 2008 2:22AM]

A big problem with the Palm OS is that the fonts weren't blended - I forget the technical term; but there are add ons to the OS that could smooth the font faces to make them look more up to date.

I did this on my old Sony Clie (Palm OS) and with a new skin and colors, people thought it was the latest and greatest even though it was 7 years old.

[Cherei @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:35PM]

I DO hope.. this means they've figured out the reason baby boomers are NOT buying the itty bitty smart phones. We can't SEE the anything on the screens.. and our hands aren't that nimble anymore.

PLEASE.. there is a whole market of folks who WANT the phones.. but.. we also need to be able to see them.. and use them. Make the keypad BIGGER. Smaller is NOT better when it comes to baby boomers.

I'm serious.

[elddar @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:50PM]

palm is still alive?OMG...

[dcny @ Jun 2nd 2008 5:55PM]

Palm is taking marketshare away from Danger/Microsoft/this versions Sidekick manufacturer the only people I have seen with Centros are under 25, they dont want a full pda or the full pda price but want more than a regular, Motorola, LG, Nokia phone

Users are just going up the chain

regular bar or flip phone

[Cygnus @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:34PM]

Geez, Engadget, this must suck for that large position you've been building selling Palm stock short!

[bob e @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:48PM]

Apple skidded a lot more than 7.5% - they went from 26.5% market share to 19%,

that is a reduction of almost 40%

[Darkest Daze @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:49PM]

They lost 7.5% of total smartphone marketshare..they lost almost 40% of their own. You're looking at it the wrong way.

[grull27 @ Jun 2nd 2008 6:56PM]

I saw that white palm at the ATT store yesterday and it is one of THE UGLIEST phones I have ever seen. Plus the operating system is the ugliest of all!

[Fusion @ Jun 2nd 2008 7:34PM]

i feel sorry for people that have to suffer using an ugly device like the centrino and that tacky os, at least bring out a new os palm its been 6 years since the last os

[Johan S @ Jun 2nd 2008 7:46PM]

Isn't the web browser in it REALLY bad?

[Conan @ Jun 2nd 2008 8:31PM]

The browser is just as bad as the Blackberry one and Winmo. Most included browsers suck.

Just install Opera Mini 4.1, it rocks and is available for Palm OS, Winmo and Blackberry.

[Fusion @ Jun 2nd 2008 8:11PM]

@johan s:

its the worst browser ever made

[Conan @ Jun 2nd 2008 8:28PM]

@Fusion:

Why you hate Palm Os so much?

You are becoming a troll, if you hate Palm So much and love Apple so much, then post on iPhone treads and dont waste your time positing under Palm OS articles.

[Fusion @ Jun 2nd 2008 8:37PM]

@conan:
cause palm havent bought anything out exciting in years,

i dont hate palm, and im not an iphone or windows fanboy