Cyclone Waste Heat Engine promises power on the cheap

Another day, another means of converting waste heat into something decidedly non-wasteful. This one comes to us from the folks at Cyclone, whose self-starting Waste Heat Engine can apparently be powered by virtually any source of waste heat, including exhaust emissions from an internal combustion engine, the "direct burning of biomass," or even the waste heat from another Waste Heat Engine. The company is also touting the engine's ability to provide a boost to solar-power generators, with it apparently able to capture heat using inexpensive panels attached to a roof, which Cyclone says could be installed at just 20% of the cost of other systems relying on pricey photovoltaic panels. Of course, there's no word as to what the Waste Heat Engine itself will cost, or when it'll be available, but you can check it out in action in the (auto-playing) video after the break.

[David @ Jun 4th 2008 6:45AM]

Biomass detected, Burninating initiated

[Chuckles McGee @ Jun 4th 2008 11:38AM]

Powered by any source of waste heat, you say? Even its own? Perpetual motion device? Would violates the laws of thermodynamics? Impossible then, that it be 100% efficient? Correct you are? Bwahahaha!

[SOOPERGOOMAN @ Jun 4th 2008 6:50PM]

I fart a hell of alot, thats wasted heat and methane gas, will this work with that? Imagine if we harness the power of the FART. Billions upon billions of farts daily. Thats how we solve the whole energy and global warming issue. by the way. First step towards the Matrix.
We are useless energy ourselves. when they find out. we'll be encapsulated like the proverbial batteries that we are. Not me though, I'm too keen. Let the "Re-volt" begin. Get it, "Re-Volt" as in renewable energy. LAwL

[404 @ Jun 4th 2008 6:56AM]

So it recycles waste heat, eh? Can it recycle all the hot air people like this generally create?

[Pfanne @ Jun 4th 2008 7:16AM]

would be nice to know how much pressure or heat this enigne needs to run..

[MrGG @ Jun 4th 2008 9:30AM]

It is a derivat of the Sterling Engine. Search for "Sterling engine" and you will see that these kind of engines are not new.
I still don't understand why Sterling Engines are not widely used/available....

[Jonathan Wilkins @ Jun 4th 2008 8:19AM]

Can you say "Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor" from Back to the Future's De Lorean?.....interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flux_capacitor

[dervheid @ Jun 4th 2008 8:34AM]

ah, beaten to the punch.
I was thinking "cold" and "fusion" and "scam"!

[TimB @ Jun 4th 2008 9:21AM]

I fail to see what is special about it. Unless its just that it will continue to run of low pressures due to the number of pistons.

They did not talk though about how they generated the pressures. They have a steam engine perhaps?

[Sheldon @ Jun 4th 2008 8:35AM]

For something called "Engineering.tv", it seemed very light on any real engineering type questions. It told you nothing useful about what they had actually demo'd. The fact that the guy kept saying that "it requires pressure" means it cannot be used on a open fire (as he also kept saying) or from a bare heat source like a real Sterling engine. Gah, quit the marketing spiel!

All I can suggest is ignore the crap spouted in the video and read the technical papers on their website. Basically they have two bits of smart: an efficient burner (the cyclone burner) which ensures every has combusted and a steam engine. Yep, that's right, they've made a modern steam-engine. That's where they get the pressure and temperature: heating water (hence their references to it being "closed loop" as well).
Why they couldn't just say that is beyond me. (Is it so bad to admit what their product actually is?)

[mxlplx @ Jun 4th 2008 9:06AM]

Wouldn't the waste heat engine affect the efficiency of the source engine? I mean, won't the back-pressure on the source engine's exhaust lower the its efficiency? I'm pretty angry about the salesman's lack of technical logic. It makes these guys look like a joke.

[NoAndThen @ Jun 4th 2008 8:45AM]

this looks really cool, i like the combo heat differential/solar panel idea. Really innovative.

@404: Cute comment, but this is clearly a real product, we've had smaller, less complex versions of this technology for sometime now. This is (hopefully) going to be the first consumer-feasible solution for something like this.

[404 @ Jun 4th 2008 9:00AM]

NoAndThen: maybe it does have a better shot at widespread adoption than some of the other hair-brained schemes out there, but there have been enough of these that I'm not getting excited until I start seeing it in the real world. The guy isn't very forthcoming with specifics or numbers, like Sheldon said, and if I had a product like this I'd be itching to tell you exactly how much energy you could get out of combustion engine fumes like the guy suggests you could try.

That said, unless they've done some severe jiggery-pokery with that demo unit, it might not be too long before we get said numbers. When that happens, I'll be less skeptical.

[Mile @ Jun 4th 2008 10:01AM]

jiggery-pokery would be a good name for a band. A polka band!

[hiroo @ Jun 4th 2008 8:52AM]

It seems to be a stirling engine of some sort.

[Andir3.0 @ Jun 4th 2008 10:00AM]

It's more like a steam engine.

[mxlplx @ Jun 4th 2008 8:55AM]

How exactly does solar power run a radial engine? I'm confused, the engine seems to run only on "pressure". What is running this engine? Exhaust? Is it a thermocouple? Magnetic Vorticies? Pixie dust? I'm sure something must be happening, in fact I think he mentioned steam at some point. I just don't think the salesman knows how it works exactly. Perhaps I'm new to the game of bullshit, but this sounds like some Steron-grade skulduggery to me.

[Josh L @ Jun 4th 2008 10:10AM]

It runs on black holes.

[Naegling @ Jun 4th 2008 9:09AM]

I read Cylon the first time I looked at the article....


Is this what Tony Stark uses for a backup?

[Bill @ Jun 4th 2008 9:30AM]

This is actually based on something called a "Sterling Engine" And, it's a viable technology that's been around since the late 1800's. One can find examples of smaller scaled Sterling Engines for sale all over the Internet. Example: http://www.stirlingengine.com/

For more info on the technology, please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_engine

[Sheldon @ Jun 4th 2008 9:58AM]

Er, actually it's a steam engine derivative, have a read of this (from their website):
http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/background.pdf

They call it a "Schoell cycle engine" (after the inventor) but it's a Rankine-cycle engine as there is a phase change (unlike Sterling engines).

[Jeff @ Jun 4th 2008 9:44AM]

This was in popular science this month and it sounds like a pretty viable/ good idea

[Jeff @ Jun 4th 2008 9:45AM]

This was in popular science this month and it sounds like a pretty viable/ good idea

[curtis.ellzey @ Jun 4th 2008 10:47AM]

The person in the interview is Harry Schoell, the inventor and CEO of Cyclone Technologies.

For the 2nd part of the interview and more info on their external combustion engine, follow this link:

http://engineeringtv.com/blogs/etv/archive/2008/06/03/cyclone-external-combustion-engine.aspx

[CosterMonger @ Jun 4th 2008 11:02AM]

Captain Planet!

[peshue @ Jun 4th 2008 12:23PM]

I wonder how much heat it takes to drive all these sorts of contraptions. If they could attach them to air conditioner units that would be awesome.

[Snoxie @ Jun 4th 2008 12:32PM]

They should do a story on the Oscillating Piston Engine, by Rotoblock. Reports say it could completely replace the internal combustion engine.

[Nimblesquirrel @ Jun 4th 2008 5:37PM]

SO after looking at the website, and looking up the Schoell Cycle on Wikipedia, I'm redirected to a Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_Regenerative_Cyclone_Engine) that reads like an ad. It seems the author (most likely the inventor) has gathered facts from a bunch of seemingly realted entries and thrown them together in a way that does nothing to explain how the engine works.

All I can tell is that the engine needs a lot of waste heat: "The engine operates at supercritical pressure (3,200 PSI) and temperature (1,100 degrees F)". Stirling engines can run off far less. Yet the author attempts to discredit Stirling engines by stating: "The Cyclone answers the problems of size, complexity, and high pressure gasses that have kept the Stirling engine from becoming practical". How exactly can a rotary engine that runs at 3,200 PSI be less complex and solve issues with high pressure gasses? It doesn't solve the size issue at all, since there are Stirling engines small enough to fit in the palm of your hand, and those same engines will actually run off the heat from the palm of a hand too.

I was initially going to say that the inventor just stuck a bunch of beta-type Stirling engines in a rotary arrangement. Now, I think that would be a good idea. ;)

[mech.eng.stu @ Aug 1st 2008 6:26AM]

From my understanding the waste heat engine runs at a low pressure and low temperature, it does not utilize super critical water that flashes to steam as the larger cyclone engine does. From the way he phrases his responses i am not sure if he means for the solar cells to be used as a means for generating electricity when the sun is out and using the engine to generate it at night, or for the solar cells to generate heat for the engine similar to a solar hot water heater i.e. non-photovoltaic. The inventor claims that this unit derives its effectiveness from being equally efficient at all points of its operating curve and being able to provide full torque at low rpm without the use of a gearing system, as opposed to tradition internal combustion engines which only reach there maximum efficiency in a small range of their operating curves and maximum torque at high rpm.

[Andir3.0 @ Jun 4th 2008 7:49PM]

Haha, that Wiki IS written like an advertisement. I love that they state one of the uses is train engines (which are probably the most efficient hybrid engine on the planet at this time.)

[pingu666 @ Jun 4th 2008 8:20PM]

stirling engines lose effiecency quickly as the size/displacement goes up...

[skulldriveshaft @ Jun 4th 2008 8:43PM]

steampunk?

[sid @ Jul 20th 2008 10:06AM]

I found this while looking for more specs for a solar radial can engine. Basically a simple version of this. Anyone who doubts these things should maybe do some research on basic science experiments used by children, or perhaps antiquated technology. It only sounds silly cause you are uninformed. People often make things complicated in an effort to generate monetary profit. The one i am working on came from a science book written by a kid. Has three tin cans and balloons, and putts away from a tinny bit of sunlight. All this high pressure stuff is at the cost of this guy trying to make this thing run a generator. Good luck finding more plans on a RADIAL CAN SOLAR ENGINE. i'm gonna just keep making them till i get one that moves something. As for yall i would advise you to continue scoffing at anything you don't understand. It will assure that you fit in well with the rest of our society. Also, don't try anything new, watch alot of tv, and ridicule anyone different than you. Because your alternative energy solutions must be way better than this guys or mine.

[Geoff @ Oct 4th 2008 11:57PM]

What a silly man! He doesn't answer the question posed by the interviewer at all - just launches into a silly spiel about it uses pressure and is "automatic." The man has no credibilty - he must be the (overpaid) CEO. The engine appears to be a radial multi-cylinder compressed air engine. So ......?

By the way: It's STIRLING engine, not Sterling.

[John Wright @ Mar 3rd 2009 3:25PM]

I am saddened by the ignorance displayed on these comments. What the man (Harry Schoell - company CEO and inventor or the system is talking about is a steam engine, not a Stirling engine. The term "external combustion" is IMO misleading - less so when applied to a Stirling engine. In fact the steam that drives the engine is generated by a separate boiler ("separate combustion" might be a more appropriate term); the water contained therein being heated by combusting fuel or by heat recuperation. The more sophisticated version uses liquid or gas fuel that swirls inside the red combustion chamber in a cyclone (as the man explains) and produces steam at extremely high pressure and temperature in a supercritical state. This steam turns the radial motor, the exhausted steam playing on rotating plates that condense it back into water. This then goes round again and back into the boiler (or, if you prefer, "steam generator"). It thus works in a closed cycle. Schoell also claims that the system acts as an air scrubber eliminating CO2, although I can't for the life me see how. I posed this question to him a few months ago and hope that one day he will find time to answer my mail.

The waste heat engine employs a more conventional water tube boiler (I suspect that the demonstration engine is driven by compressed air) at much lower pressure. This is far less efficient than the cyclone generator, but is probably the only solution in a hybrid set-up and would certainly improve overall efficiency. It is also more bulky.

I can only wish Harry Schoell the best of luck in his interesting and important venture.

I tend to view "external combustion" as a euphemism" avoiding the use of the word "steam engine" due to inrained prejudice, especially among the older generation. Well, a rose by any other name... Anyone wishing to know more would do well to read through the technical papers on Schoell's site http://www.cyclonepower.com/tech_papers.html