If you're in the market for a fuel efficient car, but you've been holding out for something a little more advanced than the Prius -- your dreams may have just been answered. Honda announced today that it would begin producing limited quantities of its
FCX Clarity hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles for sale in the US and Japan over the next few years. According to the automaker, it plans to offer around 200 of the zero-emission cars in the next three years, with a few dozen models expected on the road this year leased at around $600 a month. Said John Mendel, a senior vice president at Honda, "It's an especially significant day for American Honda as we plant firm footsteps toward the mainstreaming of fuel cell cars." Now all they have to do is get more than 3 fueling stations out there and we'll be all set.
Read - Honda rolls out fuel cell car
Read - Honda starts producing next-generation fuel cell car
posted Jun 16th 2008 10:56AM
For $600 a month, it better save on more than just fuel.
The only problem I have with cars based on hydrogen fuel is that all of them are basically lease only. None of them list an actual price, leading me to believe that these cars are nothing more than expensive rentals.
The car looks nice, though. I don't think it's ugly at all.
I remeber reading a few months back in Car and Driver that the $600 price tag will include full coverage insurance, provided by Honda.
Honda will be taking a loss on every single car but they are attempting to help our oil addiction...
attempting to replace our oil addiction to hydrogen addiction... whether its oil or hydrogen... we are still going to be getting bent over by BP, Exon Mobil, and Shell.
L:I:A:F is correct. The $600 includes quite a bit like all matinince on the vehicle, insurance, etc. Its more a rental fee to participate in a full scale road test experiment on the new cars.
The point of this car isn't to save money. Honda is using this as a test-bed for future hydrogen cars and alternative energy. Honda actually was leasing the hydrogen FCX before the Clarity, now they are offering more cars to more people. But its an experiment, and you'll have a team of engineers looking after your car for you, and you get to be a part of it.
If you want cheap, Honda already has the Fit which gets EPA rating: (2008) 33/38 miles per gallon and starts around $14k.
As for me, I'll stick with trying to find a Honda Insight, although I like the design of the FCX
@ Nick M
if you think oil companies are going to be the ones supplying hydrogen of the future, you're an idiot. Yes it does take electricity to remove hydrogen from water (electrolysis) but there have already been designs for solar powered electrolysis stations which would take water, extract the H w/out using any "grid" power...just the sun.
http://www.ecofriend.org/entry/solar-powered-hydrogen-fuel-station-opens-woodland/
though these do cost quite a bit of money, the prospect of "limitless free power" is something everyone should be interested in the future. especially the concepts that honda is working on to put this same tech in conjunction w/ a fuel cell in your home to 1) power your home 2) produce the hydrogen needed to power your car.
"the power of dreams"...thats lookin forward to the future if you ask me
And the hydrogen comes from....
Oil and coal, of course!
The new High-temperature gas cooled reactors produce tons of hydrogen, is just that governments like dicking
for now, natural gas retification mostly, at the filling station, though if the demand rose it would start to come from direct h2o conversion - an inefficient process, but able to make use of otherwise unusable non-carbon energy -- excess heat from nuclear plants, and utility energy oversupply (one of the nice side benefits of wind.) Though, of course, even the nat gas is far cleaner than just burning the oil as the gas is delivered to the station by pipeline rather than truck, and the actual energy efficiency of the honda cells is quite high.
Of course, you knew all that and we're just making your, "oil and coal" point with your fellow chucklehead in order to justify being defiant little kids in opposition to everyone telling you to be good and conserve. Fight the Power kid... erm.. ok, maybe not the "power" ... how about you just go away.
Why do people (Contrarians? Pessimists?) who should know (and probably DO know) better continue to propagate the myth that the only source of hydrogen (or electricity for that matter) is burning fossil fuels? First, hydrogen can be produced by nuclear, solar, and wind power. Second, even if the only method to produce hydrogen was by burning fossil fuels, it is far easier to monitor, regulate, and clean emissions from a few power plants than it is from millions of individual internal combustion engines.
Stop the lies, or educate yourself to the realities.
Thing is that we have neither the production capacities nor the distribution network for hydrogen as of now. So if this idea really catches on (and the geek inside me hopes it does) I'm afraid that not the cleanest way to produce hydrogen will be widely deployed - but the quickest and cheapest one.
OTOH the guys at Honda probably thought allof this through and I'm looking forward to the rollout of this car.
What I'm trying to say is that the novell thing (and biggest challenge) about this car won't be it's engine but it's entire ecosystem.
there lies the problem with new technology. No infrastructure to support it. But, over time, hopefully small companies will start offering hydrogen along side fossil fuels and the reality of a truly clean car will develop.
Does it drive its self like on Minority Report?
More advanced than the hyrbid but similar ugly design.
Prius rather..
yep. the thing is still ugly!
I don't think it looks bad. A whole lot better than the Prius or the Insight. I'd lease one if I had the cash, just to say I had a hydrogen car.
What dealerships are going to get this car? My guess the main one will be Scott Robinson Honda in Torrance which is right near Honda HQ and fueling area.
it's a small step forward, but it's a step nonetheless.
I don't know if I'd pay $600/mo for one when I could always get an old VW Rabbit diesel pickup that gets 60-70mpg, but that Rabbit wouldn't quite be as clean for the atmosphere as the Clarity, either.
So, let me get this straight:
Looks stupid.
Horribly overpriced.
No place to get fuel for it.
No efficient way to manufacture the fuel for it.
(How much does it cost to fill up a Hydrogen car, anyway?)
Gotta love cumbersome solutions to imaginary problems.
I would definitely agree that this is a cumbersome solution, but I don't really think that pollution or oil prices are imaginary problems.
8 years ago, gas was $1.50 a gallon. Today it is $4.00. This is not an "imaginary problem".
Yes but think about it. Most poeple hava a car. Most carbon comes from cars and power stations. Now take a car that doesn't produce carbon it self and only produces water. Although you have to create hydrogen using pollutants is still far less carbon than ownin a normal car producing carbon machine. so it migh be seen as one hydrgen car with the same production of multiples of carbon producing cars.
Someone correct me.
@ you two:
So you didn't answer my question. How much does it cost to fill up a hydrogen car?
It doesn't matter if gas goes up to $400 / gal. If hydrogen costs more, then this is indeed an idiotic solution, and a waste of money and time that would be better spent developing more efficient hybrid / electric / ICE cars.
Also: an increase in atmospheric CO2 promotes plant growth. Why are you in favor of deforestation? Why do you hate the rain forests?
What are you people talking about? The problem of high gas prices is as imaginary as war, or poverty.
@gb, $1.50 a gallon 8 years ago? Where do you live, California?
I started driving 7 years ago and regularlly paid $.99 a gallon for quite some time.
@Josh L, what you don't understand is supply and demand. Hydrogen cars, when first released, will of course be more expensive than other energies because it's new, it's not in demand and there is little supply.
This will _always_ be the case with alternative fuels. Once one becomes main stream and is integrated into your typical gas station then you'll really start seeing saving then but you're not going to see a solution overnight.
With your attitude we'll be stuck on oil forever until it really is $400 a gallon.
Haha..I wonder where Josh gets his talking points from. I somehow doubt even he's stupid enough to say "why do you hate rainforests?" and actually mean it.
I've heard of denying climate change, but implying that million year old forests will go extinct if we don't drive more and burn more fossil fuels (which..uh... you know, are finite) really takes the cake as science ignorance 101
In support of phanbouy's comment, this "CO2 is good for plants" argument is one of the most devious/ignorant of the arguments out there because every school kid knows that CO2 is good for plants. This however, is a microscopic view of a macroscopic problem (not unlike the "it's cold in someplace-or-other today" argument).
Global warming is nearly as much a threat to plant life as it is to people: warmer air holds more water which results in more drought and more flooding, both of which are detrimental to plants and people. He's a related tip: water vapor is a much more potent and significant green house gas than CO2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_house_gas), so as the air warms and soaks up more water, it soaks up more heat, and so more water... This is one of the major contributors to the "tipping point" I hope you are all getting sick of hearing about. Get sick of it, but know what it means and make others sick of hearing you say it.
This car is not the whole solution, no more than any other bit of technology, but it can be a major part of the solution be being a leader and an enabler. More importantly, if you drive this car now, then driving your car is no longer part of the problem. Where you get your fuel may be an issue, how the car is disposed of or manufactured might come in to play, but just driving the car does no harm.
For the "economists" in the group, all the arguments I see posted here break down in 2010 when we hit $10/gal. No amount of drilling for more oil is going to stop this. Giant and easily accessible finds might push this out a year or two, but the only people that want to drill in ANWR stand to profit at the detriment of consumers or they just don't understand the logistics of the situation: not enough oil there to make it worth while; see "An Inconvenient Truth" for enough of a taste to set you straight here, or "Home Energy Diet" for some more detail.
It's fat and ugly.
Each year, the cars just get fatter like you've blown them up!
I'll think about saving the earth's atmosphere only if the car looks good.
All you have to do is look at the people driving the cars. Then you'll see the correlation.
wow...have been looking forward to these for sometime...sad these will only be available in california for now...
FYI...honda is setting up stations to refuel the fuel cells...it will be clean for the environment and will be cheap they simply use hydrogen and oxygen to work
First a big round of APPLAUSE for Honda! WELL DONE!!!
Second, I suggest to US engadget readers to DEMAND hydrogen fuel-stations that are powered by carbon-less source (wind, solar) from their policy-makers (local, state and federal)
Third, we all should write Honda and DEMAND 200 million of such cars.
This is a great first step - Honda have proven that such car can be made - not a concept - actual working rolling car normal people can drive in real world.
It is on us to show that there is demand and to tell our politicians what we want them to do (fueling stations, subsidies, free parking for zero emission cars, opening priority lanes, etc etc)
Last but not the least - lets boo the companies that are still bullshitting us and showing us concepts and prototypes: starting with Germans: Audi, Daimler, Porsche, VW, Opel, etc, Swedes: Volvo and Saab continuing with US ones: GM, Ford, Chrysler (what's left of it), and the rest of the lemmings.
You're dumb
Explain to me how a $600 / month (on a LEASE), limited-availability vehicle with no place to fuel up is any better than a prototype or concept car?
If you can afford $600 per month for this lease, you can afford to buy and buy gas for a fuel-efficient compact car instead (with a few hundos left over). Meaning the only people that will be able to afford this car are the people who aren't really hurting for gas, and will only buy this for the same reason those same people buy Priuses (Prii?): to look down their noses at all the plebs who aren't "doing their part for the planet".
Call me back when Honda is selling these at half the price to lower- and middle-class commuters. Oh, and when there are more than 15 hydrogen fueling stations on the planet.
Okay Josh you can shut up now. First of all it is in a testing phase so they are working out the kinks, which is why it is not widely available. Secondly it is only available where there is a hydrogen gas station like So Cal, for instance in Torrance, Santa Monica and Irvine. You can't get one of these in Idaho obviously when there isn't anywhere to fill it up. Lastly the 600 dollars includes maintenance and repairs and insurance which quite frankly is a steal. Because not only are you saving money on gas, you also don't have to pay for insurance or pay for repairs. I'd like you to find a better value on leasing a car that includes all of that for cheaper.
@alex:
I pay a total of ~$400 /mo for my car payment and insurance. That also includes maintainence and repair with my warranty.
So that's around $200 that I have to buy gas (which I can buy no matter where I live). I spend about $35 on gas every two weeks or so. So I've ended up with $130 extra dollars per month that I can do anything I like with. Sounds like I've got a better "steal" than this thing.
JoshL : With your combined 400 bucks a month, you are still driving a Kia, while some other guy is driving a car of the future.
You can keep your Kia.
I may be wrong, but I thought I heard that during the test period the $600/mo included the fuel. So if you're like me and you're spending $4k/yr on gasoline, the fuel + loan payment = $650/mo...so it's not that bad of a deal (if it includes the fuel).
8 years ago I paid $0.98/gal to fill up my car....same gas station today charged me $4.01. 400% inflation over 8 years is a real problem.
Going from x to 4x is a 300% increase.
price tag: $10,000,000. probably to offset R&D. leasing is the way to go, joe. (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/11/18/first-drive-2009-honda-fcx-clarity-worlds-first-series-produc/)
@Josh L, what you don't understand is supply and demand. Hydrogen cars, when first released, will of course be more expensive than other energies because it's new, it's not in demand and there is little supply.
This will _always_ be the case with alternative fuels. Once one becomes main stream and is integrated into your typical gas station then you'll really start seeing saving then but you're not going to see a solution overnight.
With your attitude we'll be stuck on oil forever until it really is $400 a gallon.
Stupid fucking Engadget and their fucking comment fucking system
I'll reply back here so I can stop getting my inbox spammed with comment replies. Yaaay comment system! :P
Since you want to talk about economics, try this instead. All America has to do to lower gas prices worldwide is announce that we are doing any of the following (preferably all of them):
Restart the coal-for-oil program
Drill in ANWR
Drill in the Gulf of Mexico
Drill on the continental shelf
Drill in the Dakotas
Instate a shale oil program
I guarantee you that oil prices will drop like a rock overnight. Reluctance to accept impractical, cumbersome, and overpriced alternatives to oil aren't keeping prices high, nor is the planet running out of fuel for us to use. OPEC is simply trying to keep up with the increased demand from newly-industrializing countries like India and China.
The only ones responsible for keeping gas prices high are the environmental left, and those in Washington beholden to them.
@Josh L, what you fail to understand is that none of those solutions are an overnight fix. None of them would be able to provide any relief until at least 6 years after their announcement. So simply announcing isn't going to do _anything_. Even doing any of those things is not going to help as we would have moved off oil much more by the time those solutions arrive.
Okay Josh drilling in more places in the US will not make oil any cheaper. Because the oil that comes out of there needs to be set at market price. Not to mention oil will run out eventually. Oil is high because people are choosing to invest into it instead of American companies where the dollar is weak. Switching to renewable resources is the answer, take Iceland for example which is totally energy independent. I'm pretty sure they don't care how much a gallon of gas is, and when the oil crash happens they won't care either. Let's see, lets keep drilling into the ground for oil and refine it or put up wind turbines and solar panels to harness the energy that will always be available for eons.
Sigh. The "we won't see results for at least x years while we pump the oil out" argument is bogus and should be recognized as such immediately by anybody who isn't blinded by their agenda.
What do you think OPEC will do with oil prices when the US effectively says "Hey guys, thanks for the help for the past few decades. It's been really great, but we've finally realized that we can produce nearly all of the oil we need and we really won't need to do business with you anymore."
Do you think they're just going to sit back and say "Oh well, see you later, best and biggest customer in the world!" No, they're going to instantly lower prices to one that they believe will make it more economic to keep buying oil from them instead of pumping our own. This happened in 1974, and again in '79.
what part of PEAK OIL don't you understand, Josh the Good Chevron Soldier?
"The only problem I have with cars based on hydrogen fuel is that all of them are basically lease only. None of them list an actual price, leading me to believe that these cars are nothing more than expensive rentals."
It's so that they can recall and crush them later on...
Let's see 600 dollars a month for a very good looking Prius wannabe,
or 230 per month for a very similar styled Civic hybrid, or no dollars a month
for an fully paid Taurus Gl sedan.............
Hey thats the Concept version shown above.
Weren't they supposed to introduce some sort of 'make your own hydrogen fuel' device at home?
sounds easy and safe
still a nissan
Seriously this is great. So many haters
Looks like an armpit with eyes.
This is a great effort, and I'm glad to see Honda steal some of Toyota's eco thunder. I'm for any new ideas to get us off of oil all together. Capitalism should drive this tech to a reasonable outcome.
Don't listen to people that would lead you to discount different directions when they can't figure out a way to make a buck off it today. We should be more than happy cheer Honda on as it figures this out.
Down with oil companies! I will gladly pay double the price to give the middle east and multi-billion dollar quarterly profits the middle finger.
Yes, the most efficient way to make hydrogen right now is with natural gas but that will change :)
Obama needs to force all energy companies to aid with research and development of future energy solutions (i.e. ExonMobil does squat).
ExonMobil Sucks!
People like you frighten the bejezus out of me.
The federal government has no place forcing any private company to do anything. I could enumerate the dozens of reasons this practice is horrible and will lead eventually to an erosion of personal freedoms (as they already have), but I'm not going to waste my breath.
This is Liberalism 101, after all: Don't examine our results or methodology, only our good intentions. Don't question our intentions, either, lest you be labeled as one of our flavor-of-the-month ad hominims.
has nothing to do with whatever bogus ideology you're promoting, troll Josh. it's very sad that people with reasonable arguments "scare" you, but then again we all know you're afraid of the dark, and spiders, and people who think. typical Exxon employee
p.s. by the way troll, he's not advocating the federal government do anything. but we can use our FREEDOMS to not buy blood oil... oh yeah, and to make fun of simpletons like you
you have a look at where America 'borrows' its money from.
@phan:
"Obama needs to force all energy companies..."
Sounds a lot like he's advocating socialism there to me. Doesn't seem like I'm blowing his opinions out of proportion at all.
Keep up the ad hominims though, they really help your credibility.
Josh, you have ZERO credibility and have been outed by a dozen others as a bogus ideologue. My original point still stands regardless of the views of the top poster regarding Obama.
p.s. who the hell are you to talk about credibility, some low life dimwit who trolls postings on hydrogen cars to scream at everyone "WHY YOU HATE TEH RAINFORESTS?". what a joke. take a hint, idiot.
Umm, in case you weren't aware, we import more oil from our North and South American neighbors (Canada, Venezuela & Mexico) than all of the middle east (Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq and Iran (albeit via the UAE)).
Source: http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html
It surprises me how many dumb and ignorant people frequent Engadget every single day. If you wanna show your crooked middle finger to the Canucks, that's another story...
Complete publicity stunt to state they are commercially producing them. 200 is a very small number. Mercedes made over 100 A Class F-cells just to test them and did 'lease' them out to testers in California, Germany etc...
FUEL CELL VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO!
Its a fantastic start!
w00t w00t.. more companies need to take the lead like this..
LMAO @ Josh L - Basically saying lets drill the balls out of the earth.. ha ha fossil fuels aren't renewable numb nuts.. AT SOME POINT WE WILL NEED TO MOVE TO AN ALTERNATIVE FUEL SOURCE...
Although I suppose you don't care as long as it is not in YOUR lifetime..
Look one story down.
Seems pretty renewable now, hrm?
ha.. i didn't know clak moonlighted as josh.. ah well, fanboys of a feather flock together
How about we go back to the traditional method of creating livable, walkable cities and towns supported by good transit? Every new "solution" is just trying to keep up driving.
The problem with us isn't that we're driving the wrong kinds of cars. The problem is that we're driving every kind of car incessantly thanks to suburban development patterns.
Holy shit! A good idea!
this car looks like a prius and a civic smashed together and whatever is left is just ugly
Hydrogen Fuel cell efficiency from the power plant to the car's wheels. 24%
Electric Car efficiency from the power plant to the cars wheels 86%
Cost of Hydrogen? Projected at $7 to $8 per 1 Gallon equivalent.
Hydrogen Car Economy. Projected at the equivalent of 35mpg
Cost per mile NOT including the cost of the car? 4.375 miles per $1
Cost per mile of an electric car not including cost of car? 100 miles per $1
HELLO any questions?
ONLY thing stopping electric car production? Chevron Patent which they abuse and refuse to license acquired from GM via Texaco when they squashed the electric EV1 program (literally with car crushers)
Questions?
From what I understand hydrogen is roughly the equivalent price of today's gasoline after you make the metric conversions.
Could you provide a link to the patent publication? If not, I don't think it is terribly responsible to post such claims. I want to believe you, but that's why it is even more important that I have a source: want is not truth. It is more this reason I take little stock in the move "Who Killed the Electric Car?" We all need to be more rigorous than this, otherwise we are just spreading roomers. I won't hold it against you if Chevron is not the holder as I am sure they have some intermediary setup to keep them from looking like they have it, but I'd just like to see the publication so that I can determine that this is some patent with some teeth on the issue. Here's the link to the PTO's search form: http://www.uspto.gov/patft/index.html
Kevin. I LIKE suburban life. I DO NOT WANT to live in a CITY. I do not WANT to use public transportation.
I would love to live EVEN FURTHER away from the city.
Electric cars are the solution. Once I add $2600 worth of Nano Solar panels and a Grid Tie in to my garage an electric car is 100% free to drive and 100% clean with ZERO pollution and 100% zero load on the electric grid.
Its a win win win. It solves our pollution problem. It solves our fuel problems. IT solved my financial problems and it solves any concerns over where I live.
There is simply NO reasonable downside.
I think we could all appreciate suburban life, cities are nice places to visit but I hate living in them.
as always, there is something terribly wrong with the world.
yes greedy people running larger and larger corporations and fewer and fewer citizens with functioning brains on there shoulders and or a lack of will to actually DO something about it.
This is partially a result of the dismantling of the family structure and its power to properly raise children The dismantling and neutering of our education system and the abject and blantant disregard for the law that governs this nation. IE the constitution.
We quite literally have a "rogue" government in place in this country today. The "enemy" if you will is ruling this nation. This is not fanatisizm or conspiracies its just literal fact.
The people running this country are enemies of the state. Under normal conditions the fix for this is that the citizens would stand up and overthrow them. Alas we are more sheeple than people this was the objective of the dismantling of our society and educational system.
Its not a conspiracy or anything so dramatic. its just smart people who are very greedy and who ARE capable of thinking long term and preparing long term plans something which the average citizen does not seem able to do any longer. We all tend to think very short term.
I guess my genome is just fundimentally different from many other people. I see no point ryme or reason for the "power hoarding" that is occuring right now in this country. 95% of the planet's wealth is owned by less than 2% of its adult population.
This drastic imbalance of power puzzles me. I see no logical reason for it and I see no relevant emotional reason for it.
I guess that KIND of greed is just not in my genetic make up. I can see a very small (relatively speaking) monetary cap that would keep me quite happy for the rest of my life. In fact 1.3 million dollars would satisfy me quite completely for the rest of my life 300k to buy land and first year of expenses and 1 million in the bank live off the 50-60k in interest.
I would have pretty much anything I could want and would never have to work again except for pleasure.
SO why do people feel the need so badly to acquire millions and even billions of dollars at the expense of the people around them.
I guess I am just incapable of understand such levels of greed and desires for power they are simply beyond my comprehension.
It drives me nuts that people simply do not see. Now granted there is a massive amount of obfuscation going on deception and deception by the powers that be but still the writing is on the wall and yet we refuse to acknowledge it.
Its maddening.
@Coster:
Suburbs are a recent, and failed, paradigm. Mixed use, new urbanism, and high density villages (even in rural settings) are where its at for exciting design and sustainable communities.
Its good to see that some steps are being taken to help the environement, but all of the dedicated sales/leases of the first line of cars are to celebrities who are buying it just to get more attention, when in the end the car is going to sit in their garage while they drive around their hummer, This first release means nothing
I agree with Josh on some points and I disagree as well.
For one, yes forcing companies to do something is a horrible horrible idea (unless you like communism and the likes) it takes away our capitalism, i mean it's almost done the tube as it is...
Also, there are many more places in the US to get some oil. true it is not overnight, but c'mon is anything? people saying we shouldn't drill in the US, we need jobs! people could use the job money. let's stop paying african and pakistinian workers to drill arab oil and give some unemployed americans something to do. And if you think it won't do shit to the oil, you are wrong. the moment we stop demanding as much oil, prices will drop.
not significantly but it'll start, u might see like 3.85 instead of 4 bucks still 15 cent savings. which adds up considering how much gas cars consume.
but i also agree with you guys saying that we need to investigate alternative feul sources. lets be honest, nothing is going to replace good ole gas powered cars for a while. diesel has tried, but it's barely pilferred into the economy. it'll be like 10-20 more years before anything significant.
so keep the research going, and drill some oil in the US, i like the environment, but we need to make it work for us. i know we're second hand citizens to it, but then again we have the most impact. negative and positive. so we lay a much greater claim than any other animal could.
Oh my God, somebody who can think for themselves.
What you've described is the real answer: achieve as much oil independence as we can economically achieve in the short term, while researching alternative energy sources in the short term.
Why would drilling locally reduce our independence? Capitalism dictates that the market make all its own decisions, so if the market decides that importing oil from foreign countries is cheaper and selling our locally drilled oil to developing countries is more profitable, that's exactly what it will do.
US$600 = UK£300? Hmm... at that price I'd have one. If only they were releasing them over here. :'(
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you make hydrogen on the spot using electrolysis? If this is true, then you can element the waste involved in transporting fuels such as gas, ethanol and bio-fuels. You'd only have to transport electricity and with the proper upgrades (superconductors, lower temperatures) you can greatly reduce the loss of energy during transportation.
The beautiful thing is, INDEPENDENT companies can start a hydrogen station for far less than starting up a gasoline station. No middle-man--you can produce it right at the station by using electricity, water and a large storage tank. No transportation (read: delivery) fees to hike up prices even further.
Homeowners--there is a home kit you can buy right now to supply your home, house, boat, whatever with hydrogen by using solar panels. No, it aint cheap, but neither are gas prices. Pick your poison.
Or, imagine this--a car that you fill up with water once a day and it's roof-mounted solar panel converts the tank of water into hydrogen while it sits in the sun. It's always converting! It's not a dream. There are companies right now making such things.
I think this is going to take a grass-roots effort to make it happen. People are paying $25k for a Prius out of principle--the principle that they should be in charge of their own pricing of fuel. That's a big statement that people are willing to make--that is, they are paying that much for a tiny car that simply gets good gas milage. If that can be done, then why can't we take it a step further and adopt hydrogen?
We need to start talking with our pocketbooks. That's more powerful than a Congressional lobby.
Is it just me or is every post that calls this car "ugly" ranked as low?
Who's the person with far too much time on their hands and far too much deco taste for most that's running around defending the fabulously foppish and pseudo-futuristic concept cars of the world?
yes feel the burning hate within you.
I"m not sure why the mainstream media and now Engadget are writing stories like this is an actual production model like a Civic Hybrid. This is a glorified prototype.
This is a test program. They have a lease payment because Honda wants the feedback to be as close to a real buyer as possible. They've done this before with the predecessor the plain FCX.
If you wanted to "buy" one the materials and technology would push it well into the six digits. That's why the subjects are chosen so carefully.
I think the test program is a great idea but Honda putting the FCX on its regular site like its a Civic "Hits the Streets Summer 2008" is pretty weak. Weaker still is the media just blabbering about it with no understanding of the reality. Check into it folks. That's why you're paid as reporters.
@Josh
The federal government has no place forcing... What? You must live in the UK where cameras are everywhere. Which is not a bad idea especially at the Boca Raton, FL mall!
@Coster
We can not let this get in the way our long term solution.
@Everyone
We need to ask ourselves what is best for the people long term. And my view point is that hydrogen is the best long term solution. Let us turn coal miners into wind mill manufacturers. Let us turn car manufacturers into hydrogen think tanks. Let us not let oil companies buy patents to hinder hydrogen development.
Everybody just raise your middle finger towards Exon Mobil!
buddy,
no one likes exxonmobile. but as much as they are the problem, they are a company out to do business. i'll tell you if you were the ceo of exxonmobile you would do the same thing. because it is a business. a business that sadly harms the environment but like people need to drive. and last time i checked, exxons and mobiles weren't the only gas stations around, there were plenty others.
and what u guys are saying is wrong with our oil. by selling it to developing countries, we are depriving opec that pleasure. but opec knows they can sell us as high a barrel as they like because we will buy it. developing countries, eh not so much. if we KEPT our oil, and let opec deal with the 3rd world. we could set our prices lower because the opec demand will be LESS.
opec is a business, just like exxonmobile. if em decides they don't need as much oil from opec because they're getting it from the us, then opec will have to entice them somehow, if someone sells a product for cheaper, most companies follow suit. and since opec is basically the ONLY company (i know there are others, but lets be real) if there is another competitior and mind you the US isn't a no name company, it's the US it has some (take that with a grain of salt) credibility. you don't think opec might lower their prices just a tad bit? i do.
as for hydrogen, yea you can convert hydrogen from electricity. if you don't have solar panels though, uhhh your still burning gas. if we can install more solar panels throughout the US then hydrogen will be a feasible option. because i've done it at school before, it's 2 parts hydrogen for every one part water, but it still takes a LONG time. so my stance:
A) US Drilling
B) Installation of Solar Panels for Future hydrogen conversion
-p.s. i'm a lobbyist, if u can't tell ;-)
"as for hydrogen, yea you can convert hydrogen from electricity. if you don't have solar panels though, uhhh your still burning gas"
gee... 3 paragraphs, and that's your big conclusion? and no actual analysis, awareness of efficiencies; just a blanket false equivalence? not to be crass, but doesn't seem like the lobbying profession has very high standards of entry.
@V Langs
You sound like a Republican because they all want to drill for more oil.
Once the current president (texas oil tycoon) is out of office, the drilling idea will be dead and hopefully lobbiest like yourself will be out of a job.
Start lobbying for what is best for the people and not what is best for your company.
Middle Finger pointed at the lobbiest!
@ durk
well i'm actually a public/allied health lobbyist/advocist not an oil company PR man.
and i lobby for what's best for people, because i lobby against insurance companies.
also i'm not a republican, i'm not white, i'm not from texas. i'm from new york and i'm very liberal (in my mind atleast) and there is really nothing to do at work right now, so this is the next best thing.
@ phanbouy
it's funny you know this isn't my final career, just a way to get through med school. but hear me out,
i don't deny what oil companies do is bad, but they are a business. if you owned a business would you not want to make money? and as for gas stations themselves, they make about 6-7 CENTS a gallon (at least here in NY) so who is ultimately to blame?
sure EM makes billions of dollars, but they can only do that because people will never give up their demand for gasoline so long as there is gasoline engines in the world.
i don't know but wouldn't you like to see lower gas prices? it was very easy to keep my acura fueled up until about a year ago when it became astronomical. i mean i saw a guy driving a dodge ram (he was a contractor mind you) and his fill up with $96.50 when bush came to office his same fill up was less than half of that.
As much as i like the long term policy, i'd like to see some short term (meaning, within a few months) gains. where it costed me 25-30 bucks a fill up is 45-50 now.
so before you call me a republican (though there are a few ideas i do approve of theirs) think about what i'm really saying. lower gas prices.
You can only render cars like that with Shader Model 3
I don't think $600 is too much to pay for this car. I am shopping for a car right now, I would totally consider this lease if it were available to me. Obviously this deal is not designed for the Kia shoppers out there.